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Monkeys With Syntax

jamie writes "The Campbell's monkey has a vocabulary with at least six types of basic call, but new research published in the PNAS claims that they combine them and string them together to communicate new meanings. (Login may be required on the NY Times site.) For example, the word for 'leopard' gets an '-oo' suffix to mean 'unseen predator.' But when that word is repeated after 'come over here,' the combination means 'Timber!' — a warning of falling trees. Scientists have known for some time that vervet monkeys have different warning calls for different predators — eagle, leopard, and snake — but unlike the Campbell's monkeys, vervets don't combine those calls to create new meanings, a key component of syntax. The researchers plan to play back recordings to the monkeys to test their theories for syntax errors."

12 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. Monkey syntax errors aren't so bad by istartedi · · Score: 5, Funny

    But when they throw "exceptions", look out!

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    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Monkey syntax errors aren't so bad by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Funny

      I pity the object that catches that.

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      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Monkey syntax errors aren't so bad by von_rick · · Score: 5, Funny

      Monkeys have an amazing ability to fling core dumps.

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      Face your daemons!

  2. Re:It was the blurst of times. by Vombatus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get enough of them together and it will be like watching a Shakespeare play

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    This sig is intentionally blank
  3. This is what linguists have been waiting for by snowgirl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are so many people out there who have been pushing for "animals can speak!" and "we taught monkeys to use sign language!" And it's like, as a linguist, one has to pull out all sorts of jargon and details about why this isn't actual language.

    Those scientists who have been studying animal language as a non-pseudoscience have been waiting for anyone to show SYNTAX in animal language. You have have 1 trillion different words in a language, and it has a finite range of expressions... meanwhile you can have 10 different words, that with the right syntax can generate an infinite range of expressions.

    That's why I think this is so cool... a chance to really look at a real proto-syntax, because all human languages have a very strongly developed syntax.

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    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    1. Re:This is what linguists have been waiting for by Internalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those scientists who have been studying animal language as a non-pseudoscience have been waiting for anyone to show SYNTAX in animal language. You have have 1 trillion different words in a language, and it has a finite range of expressions... meanwhile you can have 10 different words, that with the right syntax can generate an infinite range of expressions.

      While this is true, it's not clear to me that what's documented here is, in fact, syntax. The researcher in question (Zuberbühler) has written about this stuff before and has been much more cautious in attributing full-on linguistic properties (a search of LanguageLog will turn something up from 2006).

      I'll reserve absolute judgment for when I get a chance to look at the actual paper, but this quote from NYT gives me pause: Two booms can be combined with a series of "krak-oos," with a meaning entirely different to that of either of its components. This is not (typically) how human language works...meaning is compositionally built up from bits of syntax, whereas what's described here looks more like idiom. In fact, it looks more like phonology (*maybe* morphology) to me...meaningless bits that can be put together to make meaningful bits.

      What they need to do now is get a linguist in there so slice & dice the recordings, play them back to the monkeys in various reconstructed forms, and see how they react.

      Also...

      [...] a chance to really look at a real proto-syntax, because all human languages have a very strongly developed syntax

      some would argue against the subordinate clause here (pointing at Piraha, for example), but I'm not one of those. However, it might be the case that this "syntax" has developed in parallel to human syntax from some common protolanguage (since these are monkeys and not even apes, we're talking REALLY far back), and so this may be relatively uninformative with respect to human syntax.

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      Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- Wernher von Braun
  4. Monkey version of Timber by Kebis · · Score: 5, Funny

    The monkey version of "Timber!" is “Boom boom krak-oo krak-oo krak-oo". So, in monkey it's 8 sylables, and in English it's 2. No wonder humans became the dominant species, we had more time to get out of the way after the falling tree warning.

    1. Re:Monkey version of Timber by koxkoxkox · · Score: 5, Funny

      "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Texas"

  5. PNAS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Haha, they said PNAS.

  6. Careful by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

    Violate Strunk and White just once and they'll fling shit at you.

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    Have gnu, will travel.
  7. Re:I second that... by dziban303 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Okay, okay, you're both linguists. But are you cunning?

  8. Re:Meaning is not a key component of syntax. by mr_matticus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, "meaning" isn't just limited to sense and reference (semantics).

    Meaning, that is, syntactic meaning, is a key component of syntax. Without meaning, syntax can't exist.

    Knowing that a repeating pattern has a logical definitional rule behind it is a key element of meaning. If I say the word "mine" to you, without syntax, you have no idea of the semantic meaning. Is it a verb? An object? A noun? If it is a noun, does it refer to the kind for digging or the kind for exploding? Syntax plays a huge role in meaning.

    Consider that the monkeys have a semantic inventory of distinct sounds A , B, and C. Semantically, they have three concepts and no more--because they lack syntax. With a simple syntactic structure, the sounds get new meanings because sequence suddenly informs meaning.

    Without syntax, words can only have one meaning. As the article argues and as the sentence describes, the fact that position changes the meaning of sounds is key evidence of the use of syntax in the language. If semantic meaning were unaffected by sequence, that would be evidence of the absence of syntax.

    Semantics cannot be divorced from phonology and syntax in oral language. Phonological meaning plus syntactic meaning is fundamentally semantic meaning. More advanced languages have more complicated systems of context and idiom that add layers onto this. But the basic point remains that meaning is certainly an element of syntax.