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ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fees For Guitar Hero Arcade
Self Bias Resistor writes "According to a post on the Arcade-Museum forums, ASCAP is demanding an annual $800 licensing fee from at least one operator of a Guitar Hero Arcade machine, citing ASCAP licensing regulations regarding jukeboxes. An ASCAP representative allegedly told the operator that she viewed the Guitar Hero machine as a jukebox of sorts. The operator told ASCAP to contact Raw Thrills, the company that sells the arcade units. The case is ongoing and GamePolitics is currently seeking clarification of the story from ASCAP."
The music industry shooting iself in the foot? Colour me surprised...
Or else they would have gone straight to the distributor or publisher.
"Despite the fact that these games are very successful and are drawing a great deal of attention to the music represented in the games, the industry is not pleased with the licensing arrangements that allow the games to use their songs."
Does anyone here think "their songs" refers means "the artist's songs" or does it rather mean "Corp X's songs". Their original argument in the opening salvo of their war against the internet was "think of the artists!" Well, apparently they don't abide by their own logic (nor have they ever). From the very same article:
"Music games are proven earners--Aerosmith has reportedly earned more from Guitar Hero : Aerosmith than from any single album in the band's history." Fuck the music industry. Please, just die already.
I would think a GH video game stand would be more akin to a DDR arcade game than a jukebox.
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IANAL but I'd tell the ASCAP flunky that the music's ALREADY LICENSED to start with. Otherwise it wouldn't even make it to the GH machine in the first place, right?
Sounds like an attempted shakedown of a small business that's not legally bound to pay anything in this instance.
Perhaps ASCAP need to be introduced to a different acronym: RICO.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Your anti-RIAA rants don't apply here.
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The companies represent the artists because the artists sign a contract affording the company the right to distribute (and the responsibility/incentive to police unauthorized distribution). Aerosmith can manage their online distribution themselves ("Hey, Tyler... it's Wednesday: Your day to modify the XML!") or they can strike a deal with a company to handle that kind of stuff for them.
-Aerosmith has reportedly earned more from Guitar Hero : Aerosmith than from any single album in the band's history
That's great. Do you think they could have gotten that deal if they weren't represented by their company? Do you think Tyler could even make it downstairs before lunchtime if a third party did not have a vested interest in their success and distribution?
Don't get me wrong: I'm all for artists -- musicians, writers, composers, comedians -- managing as much of their own distribution as they can. The smaller, less established you are, the more it matters; the bigger, better established you are, the more difficult it becomes. But it is the choice of the artist. I buy produce directly from the growers at Farmers' Markets whenever I can, but I do not begrudge the grocery stores their role in the supply chain.
DDR is currently in a gray area, since it crosses the line between video game and jukebox. Especially if it's positioned in an area so everyone can watch it. There hasn't been a "ruling" one way or the other from ASCAP on it. There are complications, because a lot of DDR songs are unlicensed in the US or are original performances by Konami. GH is a better test case, which is probably why they're using it.
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ASCAP - Yes, this is the moffia who shows up to businesses and want payment for your radio or TV being on.
Tell them to take a hike, they have no legal standing to collect.
IMHO, the entire entertainment industry needs to brought down to earth. Start with reducing copyrights to 5 years for music, 10 years for movies. Then the music or movie goes into public domain, like it was originally intended to do when copyrights were started.
No one else gets paid forever (longer than your lifetime) for the work you did. Why should people who sing and act?
There was one bar here that actually went out of business because of ASCAP. He had no jukebox and hired folk bands; these bands played old folk music that was in the public domain, and ASCAP sued anyway. He wouldn't cave on principle and the legal costs bankrupted him and he lost his business.
We need a law which says that once a judge has ruled that a corporation has brought a frivolous lawsuit against someone, anytime it sues someone in the future it needs to finance the other side's legal fees, and only gets the money back if the judge rules they deserve it.
See: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1480276&cid=30456790
(YMMV, of course)
This will kill jobs and hurt what is left of the arcade industry even more so in the Chicago area. Some one better tell obama.
A few things have been said comparing RIAA with ASCAP, and I agree that they are both the "industry" part we'd all like to eliminate or govern better.
so which one is worse? IMHO ASCAP is worse because they deal in all the venues - The production and manufacturing, the retail markets and the public performance places (bars, restaurants, retail stores, concert venues, malls etc). They take cuts from every part of the line including the last in line, the establishments that offer music as a service to a consumer. If you're a small business owner, with a nightclub with DJs or bands or even a store that wants to play his local radio station over his PA, you might as well figure on spending a lot of money because surely you will have an ASCAP representative knocking on your door telling you you are required to pay an outrageous fee to a PO box somewhere in Kansas. They'll bully you for months then weeks then days and threaten you with lawsuits and send you legitimate looking licensing pamphlets with absolutely no pricing and very little information about the laws or levels or types of licensing. You'll get the same info when dealing direct with ASCAP (the ONLY public point of contact direct to ASCAP is ONLY through their website- of which is also vague and semi-threatning). You'll get ink-jet printed price-sheets handed or mailed to you by these ASCAP representatives. Haggling will get you better prices, to which RED FLAGS are customary. If you do not pay, the bullying continues, lawsuits are threatened, youre forced to feel obligated to pay for something you have no idea is even a tangible item or not. If you're a small business owner, you are only dealing with the representative, the next level up is an ASCAP lawyer. Your lawyer will most likely say they have a legal right to demand the money from you, neither you nor any combined effort would be able to survive an ASCAP lawsuit.
You may be bullied also by your local amusement provider (the company that provides jukeboxes and pool tables for rent).
-- my sig had an Aerosmith lyric in it, but I was forced to remove it or pay a licensing fee.
Those Donkey Kong machines make music. They're just like jukeboxes!
It's a video game not a jukebox. I hope the courts understand this. ASCAP should get nothing.
It's one post on one forum. Does anyone have any other evidence that ASCAP is doing this? I'm all for getting rid of them, and copyright altogeather, but let's at least make sure we are arguing about things that are actually happening. I would like to see if there is any other people that report the same thing. I mean the post in response to the linked one is from someone else that runs GH Arcade and hasn't had any problems. Anyone else in the St Louis area that can confirm this is happening? or are we just going to fly off the handle over things we have no evidence of now? *cue "this is /.", "your new here" etc.
letting an idiot know they are an idiot is not a game... it's a responsibility. - by Kristopeit, M. D. (1892582)
does anyone else see "asshat" when they read "ascap"? every time it gets me...
Your anti-RIAA rants don't apply here.
The music publishers in ASCAP and the record labels in RIAA tend to have the same parent companies, just like TV news and the MPAA share parent companies.
Last night, my MP3 player suddenly got stuck on the song 4'33" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3). It keeps playing the haunting melody over and over, and nothing I can do will make it stop!
Besides having that tune running through my head all day, how much am I going to have to pay the RIAA for this? I never purchased this song, so it is distresssing that I am stuck paying for it. Is there a virus that loads such things onto MP3 players?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
ASCAP - Yes, this is the moffia
You misspelled MAFIAA. ASCAP, along with other BMI, SESAC, and foreign performance rights organizations, together with record label trade groups like RIAA, make up the M in MAFIAA.
While ASCAP is "not for profit", it has paid employees, particularly its board of directors. This provides it motive to seek every drop of money it can, particularly if it is not "cost effective" to do so. The largest part of those costs are, after all, employee wages.
It has the muscle to extort money out of business owners even when it knows it is in the wrong; it is fully aware of the cost of defending a lawsuit, and that the vast majority of small businesses and performers cannot afford to do so. (And guess what? More overhead!)
This is by no means the first such story I've heard, even here on slashdot. If you've got potentially deep pockets and are high-profile, they may back off, but if you look sueable, they may sue to make an object lesson of you. Much like the RIAA.
Just as an aside, I found a reference saying that ASCAP does not automatically pay royalties for general live performances. I bet, though, that it still collects them. As you seem more informed about ASCAP particulars, would you care to speak about that?
That was my thought. This is double dipping!
(Drumming on Time)
I've never heard of a jukebox owner needing to pay royalty fees. That blows! Most operators don't own the machines, they rent them from a vending company, and take between a 40/60 & 60/40 split. How much does the ascap want out of that cut would be the more appropriate question. Obviously any amount> 1-5% would not make it worth running the machine. There is overhead that people forget about. It's not just "plug and paid." You have to lease or own the space to host the machine, and pay for the power of the machine which on any large screen device can be substantial over the year.
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
I was using the wrong term there, calling the "Guitar Hero" machine a jukebox. I thing licensing isn't unreasonable,for them. Public performance and all. But calling a videogame a jukebox is not the same since the videogame company should have it liscensed.
It's like as much (more actually, but I digress) to "listen" to a song on a jukebox as it is to "BUY" it from I-tunes or Amazon (my preference).
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.