How Europe's Mandated Browser Ballot Screen Works

CWmike writes "After an 11-month legal face-off, Microsoft and European antitrust officials signed off yesterday on the ballot screen concept that will give Windows users a chance to download rivals' browsers. But now that the battle's over and the ink has dried, it's time to look closely. Some FAQ examples: What's Microsoft promised? How will it work? How many browsers will be on the ballot? Who decides which browsers? Who will see it?"

Comments

Quit making it so complicated

[Orion Blastar]

Write a 'Portable Application" that is not integrated with Windows System files to web browse to any web site and download any file and then run it. Default the startup page to a Google search for "web browsers" and let the user pick which link to follow and download. Then the 'Portable Application" can be deleted if the user so desires.

I would suggest that the 'Portable Application" be a FOSS web browser like Firefox and licensed from the Mozilla Foundation to work as a one time downloader. Then all web browsers have that annoying feature to detect that it is not the "Default browser" and ask the user to make it default and sets the default to "Yes and never ask again" so the user picks a web browser, downloads it, make it default and then if they want they can download a different web browser later on.

The whole DOJ and EU problem with Windows is that IE is the built in default web browser that is integrated with Windows system files so it cannot be removed. Just make the Windows 7 N-edition versions with the temp 'Portable Application" web browser that can download whatever web browser the user wants and give a system message that a temp web browser will be loaded to find a suitable web browser the user can download and install and then set as default.

That is just about as simple as you can make it. If you make the third part web browsers part of the Windows 7 install DVD they will be old versions and prone to vulnerabilities and skip some FOSS web browsers and any other web browser that comes out after the Install DVD is made.

Re:Quit making it so complicated

[Anonymous Coward]

Write a 'Portable Application" that is not integrated with Windows System files to web browse to any web site and download any file and then run it. Default the startup page to a Google search for "web browsers" and let the user pick which link to follow and download. Then the 'Portable Application" can be deleted if the user so desires.

Gee what would we call this innovative portable application? How about "browser"?

Re:Quit making it so complicated

[oddaddresstrap]

It's one thing when people who feel they have the requisite knowledge choose to locate an alternative browser and install it. If every user had to use Google to locate what they thought might be a web browser and then attempt to install it successfully, a significant percentage would go straight off the cliff.

more to the point, is this really necessary?

[Shakrai]

My computer experience tells me you've got two kinds of users. Idiots and non-idiots. The former category is a lost cause and will just use IE anyway because that's what they know. The latter category is already smart enough to procure an alternate browser without the help of a splash screen.

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[Ethanol-fueled]

That's hard to do when people bitch and moan that the blue "e" is missing from the computer and then fidget whenever you open Firewhatever before they just ask you to just the "e" back in the upper left corner.

Those are the lost cause. Imagine trying to explain chmod or sudo to them.

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has taken a couple of years, but my brothers and I have managed to train our father - although now he keeps looking for 'Mozzarella Firefox'...

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[hairyfeet]

I've actually had VERY good luck converting the "average Joe" off of IE and onto Firefox, but there is a trick to it, and no, I don't mean hide IE. Anyway here is what I have found: You can't just "make" them switch, you have to give them a reason to switch.

So what I do is install ABP and ForecastFox, set to load at the toolbar-menubar area, and then let them see what a page that is loaded with ads like the Yahoo home page looks like in both Firefox and IE. after they have seen a couple of pages without the annoying as hell ads, and see how ForecastFox gives them their local weather with the nice icons they just don't want to go back. In fact I have had customers call me to say "I'm visiting "insert name of friend/relative" and their PC has only the bad blue E thing. What do I need to do to get them the good one?"

So it really isn't hard to get ordinary folks off of IE. You just need to show them how much better an experience they can have away from IE. I show them how easy it is to add extensions, so if they want to download Youtube videos or any other basic browser task they can just DIY. And of course getting them away from IE makes my life easier, as I don't have to deal with my customers on XP getting drive by downloaded. Better for them, better for me, its a win/win!

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[TorKlingberg]

My computer experience tells me you've got two kinds of users. Idiots and non-idiots.

This is a common mental mistake of Slashdotters. Of course there is a scale of various levels of knowledge. Perhaps even more importantly, a person can be an expert in some subjects and an idiot in others.

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[houghi]

This is not about the idiots making stupid choices. This is about the idiots having the ability to make a stupid choice. Perhaps there will be idiots who say "Finally I can have my IE back and not that firething my geeky neighbour forced down my throat."

This is not about forcing people to use alternative browsers. It is about giving people a selection to choose from. Just like you can select to eat in a fancy restaurant (or even cook your own food) does not mean McD is out of business any day soon. It means it is you can pick your own poison.

It would be great if the next step would be to have a selection of various operating systems to select from at first boot.

Re:more to the point, is this really necessary?

[saintm]

Yeah, because knowledge about computing has everything to do with intelligence, eh?

The ballot screen is Europe only

[iammani]

The bad news is that, the screen is to appear only for users in Europe. I hope the US anti-trust takes hint a from their European counterparts and mandate in the US too.

Re:The ballot screen is Europe only

[plasmacutter]

The bad news is that, the screen is to appear only for users in Europe. I hope the US anti-trust takes hint a from their European counterparts and mandate in the US too.

I believe deliberate, artificial market segmentation is a violation of the sherman anti-trust act. It merely needs to be actually pursued by the justice department.

Re:The ballot screen is Europe only

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. The really bad news is that this let's microsoft off the hook completely for the mess they have created.

No matter which browser you choose on this ballot, IE is still going to be present on your machine and ready for internal idiots or external criminals to use. This changes nothing whatsoever.

Re:The ballot screen is Europe only

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean things like region encoding of Movies is actually illegal?

Huh.

Re:The ballot screen is Europe only

[ArmyOfAardvarks]

Why should it? The OS doesn't belong to the US government. It belongs to Microsoft. If they want to make the default browser IE, it's their business. If you don't like it, use Ubuntu. I don't like IE, but even more I don't like the government pretending that they own everything.

How about the same - for computers?

[ThePromenader]

I really think the EU is missing the point in this "anti-trust" case: the fact that the consumer doesn't have a choice in what OS comes with his computer doesn't bother anyone?

Re:How about the same - for computers?

[causality]

I really think the EU is missing the point in this "anti-trust" case: the fact that the consumer doesn't have a choice in what OS comes with his computer doesn't bother anyone?

I think the reasoning is that it's not illegal to have this sort of monopoly (on OSes), but it's illegal to abuse it in such a way that you leverage it in order to dominate other markets, like browsers. Since they leveraged the Windows monopoly to make IE a dominant browser, the government is focusing their anti-trust efforts on browser choice specifically. At least that's what I think their reasoning is, though I'm no lawyer.

Re:How about the same - for computers?

[jasonwc]

As a law student that has taken Antitrust law, I can confirm that that IS the logic. Essentially, it is not illegal to maintain a policy by historic accident, market preference, or even government fiat. However, it is illegal to leverage your monopoly in one area to create a monopoly in another field or to use anticompetitive tactics to maintain your monopoly.

For example, if MS refused to sell Windows 7 licenses to companies that also sold pre-installed Linux computers, that would likely be an antitrust violation, because MS would be maintaining its monopoly by anti competitive means rather than maintaining it as a result of mere customer preference.

However, IE would not be in the dominant position it is today if it weren't for MS's use of its OS monopoly to create a monopoly in the browser market. The EU wants users to have a choice of browsers to prevent just this behavior. Europe also generally has much higher Firefox penetration than the US, so I would not' be surprised if this does have an impact.

Re:How about the same - for computers?

[jasonwc]

The EU believes that simply making it obvious to users that a) there are choices and b) that installing and using another browser is easy to do, and in no way abnormal or dangerous.

If MS thought that the ballot screen wouldn't affect it's IE user base, than it wouldn't have fought so hard to ban it. In fact, they offered to sell the OS with NO BROWSER as an alternative to providing a ballot screen!

In addition, MS has refused to provide a ballot screen to non-EU users. North America, for example, will NOT get the ballot. Why fight the ballot so hard if it's going to have no impact? I think MS believes it will have an impact, and therefore is attempting to limit it to as few users as possible.

It's incredible how few people know that alternative browsers exist. I've heard people refer to IE as "the internet" or alternatively refer to any browser as IE/Explorer/Internet Explorer. IE, to many non-technical users, is synonymous with the browser. It's like saying "kleenex" whem you mean "tissue".

And there are a LOT of users that use IE, with knowledge of alternatives, out of sheer resistance to change. If they saw a ballot screen when they got a new computer rather than just IE, they might be willing to try something else.

Behavioral Law & Economics has shown that pretty much any default position is going to significantly impact user decisions. For example, in the US we have an "opt in" system with regard to organ donation and around 10-15% participation. In Europe, there's an "opt out" system with 80-90% participation. There may be cultural differences, but it's likely that most of the difference is merely due to the impact of opt-in/opt-out.

That's why academics like Cass Sunstein at Harvard have suggested that a default position of doing nothing is actually a non-neutral starting point. He argues, for example, that employees should automatically be signed up for a 401(k), and have the choice to opt-out, because when individuals are asked in studies whether they want to participate in such a program, the vast majority say yes, yet participation is FAR higher when opt-out is the default.

Re:The proper Solution:

[plasmacutter]

Makers of x86 applications should have been mandated to produce a (Generic) Linux, Windows, and OSX port of all their software.

that will swiftly and very effectively kill off most FOSS projects, as OSS developers do so as a hobby, and often have no clue about the operating system they DONT use.

Not fair if Lynx is missing

[wiredlogic]

Their hegemonic empire will not be torn down in the name of equality if Lynx isn't included in the list of choices. They should also be forced to include alternatives to Paint and Notepad. That they have the audacity to continue bundling these applications is a slap to the face of every righteous EU official. They may also want to look into rumors that Apple is bundling a single web browser into their own OS at the expense of other meritorious alternatives.

Re:Not fair if Lynx is missing

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple actually bundled MS IE for many years, until MS announced it would discontinue support.

Re:Not fair if Lynx is missing

[omfgnosis]

Just to add a little clarification: MS discontinued support for Mac IE when their contract with Apple ran out. Apple had a new browser in development for some time before that because they knew Mac IE would be discontinued. It's not as if MS changed course.

Re:Not fair if Lynx is missing

[arkhan_jg]

And yet again, someone misunderstands antitrust laws. If you accept that a free market is a good thing, then you also need to accept that regulation is required to keep it free. Without competition, free markets cannot function; monopolies are dangerous and anti-competitive, and mean prices rise for customers in the long run.

Having a monopoly isn't illegal. Having two monopolies isn't illegal. Bundling isn't illegal. Having one monopoly, then using bundling with that monopoly to gain a second monopoly, and to prop up your monopolies via mutual lock-in IS illegal. A monopoly isn't 100% of a market; it's a large enough share such that it is utterly dominant. 90% of the market is more than sufficent in microsoft's case.

Apple does not have a monopoly in the desktop OS market, nor is safari a browser monopoly so bundling is ok. Neither paint or notepad have a monopoly in the image editing or document editing markets, so again bundling is A-OK. Free market competition is not threatened by them at this point.

Microsoft have a desktop monopoly. By bundling IE as the default 'free' browser (i.e. the price is included in windows) they gained a monopoly in the browser market. This in itself is not nececessarily a problem, but given microsoft's habit of also including custom extensions to the spec that promote lock-in, i.e. ActiveX it becomes a problem. Take a real world example; in Korea, online banking almost invariably requires activex, because 'everybody' has it. By having activex tied to the IE monopoly, which is tied to the windows monopoly, it means in order to do online banking there, you need to buy windows. Browser competitors and OS competitors are almost entirely locked out of the market, damaging customer choice and competition. And with no competition, microsoft can charge what the hell they like.

The same applies to the proprietary codecs bundled as part of media player; there was a real danger a few years ago that streaming video and audio online would gravitate to the WMV and WMA standards, which defacto only work in windows (patents providing lock-in), and mainly in IE. So by bundling media player's proprietary codecs with windows 'for free' there was a danger that microsoft would also gain a monopoly in the streaming video/audio market, and again harm competition and ultimately prices. As it happened, flash ended up winning, but it could have gone very differently, and may still if agreement cannot be reached with HTML5 for cross-platform support.

Providing a popup choice at first install may not be my preferred solution, but at least it means microsoft don't get an automatic free ride from customers with windows and IE who don't bother to look into the alternatives because they already have a bundled solution.

Re:Waiting for

[pjtp]

In Soviet Russia, the joke waits for you!

Ballot?

[sexconker]

Ballot? It's a menu.

Nice choice of words trying to spin this as a democratic / freedom / choice thing.
It's simply MS being forced to help their competition.

Whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind it is irrelevant - there's no reason to call a simple fucking menu a ballot.

I believe that IE should be the only browser provided by MS, and no menu should be forced upon them. But IE should be completely removable (in Vista and 7 not XP; XP needs it for updates) via the ol' add/remove windows components thing. Leave the files around by default, just uninstall the thing. Hateful users can delete the actual files too, and then pop in the installation disc if they want to re-add it later.

Apps that die because they depend on IE being installed? Well, you simply can't make everyone happy in this scenario. Eventually that problem will go away.

But this is a menu.
Not a ballot.

Re:This just in from Opera

[sznupi]

...and yet you suddenly forget, on Slashdot, that other browsers had a hard time largely due to practices of MS.

And no, it isn't a case of "well, but only Opera has such pitiful market share of all the alternatives" BS. You seem to also forget that Europe is not US; there are countries here where Opera is far ahead of FF, for example. And Safari generally doesn't exist.

Re:The proper Solution:

[RoFLKOPTr]

Makers of x86 applications should have been mandated to produce a (Generic) Linux, Windows, and OSX port of all their software. That means Quicken, that means Adobe, that means, everyone else. Makers of hardware needed to be mandated to make a Windows, Linux, and OSX driver for their device.

I don't think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.... but it's damn close.

Re:This just in from Opera

[sznupi]

Ahh, yes, because it's so hard to imagine the world is not homogeneous...

Ukraine, Opera is the number one browser with 35%, ahead of IE:
http://www.ranking.com.ua/en/rankings/web-browsers-groups.html

Russia, number one among alternatives to IE, with 27%
http://www.rankingru.com/en/rankings/web-browsers-groups.html

And in most of the countries in ma backyard, flags of which you can see at the top of above webpages, it is between 5 and 10%, quite respectable.

And in all except one Safari almost doesn't exist, with sub 1% share.

Re:This just in from Opera

[iamapizza]

That was an interesting question. According to this flickr photo, assuming everything on teh Internets is true,

• Opera is #1 in Belarus, Georgia and Tajikistan
• It must therefore be ahead of Firefox
• According to the map legend, Safari doesn't exist!

Waste of Time

[Toreo asesino]

...for most users I'd imagine. The number of people I've seen close Norton/McAfee messages that say "For Gods' sake man, you're trial-ware virus subscription have expired - your computer could literally be ass-raped any minute!" leads me to think most users won't give a shit about other browsers.

What happens if you close the ballot screen? Nothing I suspect. This'll just be a case of all but mildly technically curious people closing it and clicking the blue "E" anyway.

Anyway, after all this I think it's for the good. If nothing else it makes Apple seem a little more evil; I hope all the fanbois realise the same shake-down will happen to their beloved MacOS X should ever come close to the domination it apparently deserves.. Anyway, I for one don't miss the days of pure IE domination & 'marque' tags floating around, so again this is a good thing.

Re:Waste of Time

[pmontra]

There is a common misunderstanding in your post.

The ballot screen is there not because of MS' market domination but because MS abused of that dominant position.

If Apple ever gets to dominate the market and doesn't abuse of it, Apple will never be forced to place a ballot on screen.

Again: the EU is not punishing MS for being successful but because of what they did to win against competitors.

No Opt-Out in Europe

[andersh]

In Europe, there's an "opt out" system with 80-90% participation.

Nonsense, there is no such thing in "Europe" because each country has its own system! Europe is not a country, not even the EU member states have central administration for transplants. You are just making things up.

You cannot possibly claim 80-90% participation when there is no European common ground on transplants. And there certainly is NO "opt out" system in Europe as a whole. There are only national systems! Your claim is an outright lie. I also checked with the European Transplant Coordinators Organisation.

Further research shows that just within the EU (27 out of 50 countries in Europe) there are wildly different figures. The Nordic countries show a high degree of willingness to donate organs, but there is still no opt-out system. In fact you absolutely have to choose to opt-in and get a donor card!

I quote from the European Union's report on organ donations: "Donation rates and transplantation activity varies widely between the Member States, ranging from 33.8 deceased donors per million of population (pmp) in Spain to 1 deceased donor per million population in Romania. Only Spain and few others Member States have succeeded in increasing significantly the number of donors. These increases are linked to the introduction of better organisational practices".

http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_threats/human_substance/oc_organs/docs/fact_figures.pdf

The choice will be too late

[Alain Williams]

At no point will Microsoft "slipstream" the ballot into a production version of Windows -- say, Windows 7 Service Pack 1, or Windows 8. The ballot will always be delivered as a Windows Update item.

In other words the user will have already been using the machine for some time, they will have got used to clicking the IE icon and ... this pesky ballot appears ... oh, well, these mysterious things happen, just wait for it to complete ... go back to using IE as he was used to.

This should have been included at first boot time, along with asking you for your timezone, etc.

Re:This just in from Opera

[Hrshgn]

Nice try. 1) actually happened in France and we now have a choice of our iPhone provider. Also, other companies than Microsoft have been tried by the EU. It's just that Microsoft is generating more headlines.

How they choose

[fortapocalypse]

"For each of the usage share sources listed in Annex D, web browser usage share will be determined semi-annually by averaging monthly usage share data for the previous six months for which such data is available, with shares for different released versions of the same vendor’s browsers added together to determine a browser’s total usage share (e.g., Firefox 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, etc. all count towards the total share for “Mozilla Firefox”). No more than one browser will be listed per vendor. Other than Internet Explorer, the Choice Screen may not contain any web browser which is based on Internet Explorer’s rendering engine and the development or distribution of which is funded in whole or in substantial part by Microsoft." so IE-engine based browsers are not an option. (+1 Microsoft) See: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/eu-msft/docs/Microsoft%20Commitments.doc