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Making Sense of the Cellphone Landscape

Charlie Stross has a blog post up that tries to make sense of the mobile phone market and where it's going: where Apple, Google, and the cellcos fit in, and what the point of Google's Nexus One may be. "Becoming a pure bandwidth provider is every cellco's nightmare: it levels the playing field and puts them in direct competition with their peers, a competition that can only be won by throwing huge amounts of capital infrastructure at their backbone network. So for the past five years or more, they've been doing their best not to get dragged into a game of beggar-my-neighbor, by expedients such as exclusive handset deals... [Google intends] to turn 3G data service (and subsequently, LTE) into a commodity, like Wi-Fi hotspot service only more widespread and cheaper to get at. They want to get consumers to buy unlocked SIM-free handsets and pick cheap data SIMs. They'd love to move everyone to cheap data SIMs rather than the hideously convoluted legacy voice stacks maintained by the telcos; then they could piggyback Google Voice on it, and ultimately do the Google thing to all your voice messages as well as your email and web access. (This is, needless to say, going to bring them into conflict with Apple. ... Apple are an implicit threat to Google because Google can't slap their ads all over [the App and iTunes stores]. So it's going to end in handbags at dawn... eventually.)"

40 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. I Just Did... by LearnToSpell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Picked up an N900. T-Mobile unlimited for 10 bucks a month. Could probably get away without it anyway, since there's so many open hotspots around in NY. I hate AT&T. Hate Verizon. Probably hate T-Mobile in a month. :-) There's no way I want to pay 80-120 bucks a month though. Ridiculous.

    1. Re:I Just Did... by MrMista_B · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How often do you call 'nationwide'?

    2. Re:I Just Did... by sznupi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, and no mention of Nokia in the summary (and quite dismissive in TFA).

      It's not only about Maemo, it's about a phone manufacturer that has 40% of total market (of which smartphones are what, 15 - 20% now? Why do you talk only about them?). Over 50% of smartphone market. The only phone manufacturer that keeps itself comfortable financially (others are either struggling or mobile phones aren't their main product; except RIM perhaps, but they sell corporate service rather than phones). Only one their product (1100) is the most popular consumer electronic device in history, it vastly outsold families (like "iPod") from other manufacturers. A year ago there were 3 billion phones in the world, now there are around 4.6, and it's largely thanks to Nokia. Phones, companies which enable this kind of uptake is what's defining 21st century landscape.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:I Just Did... by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tmobile has an "unlimited web for phones" for $9.99/mo. It's intended for non-smartphones, basically so you can browse the web on normal phones' tiny screens, or use a Google Maps app. But it can also, apparently, be used with unlocked smartphones, like the N900, that have no way of enforcing a specific premium data plan. Judging by forum chatter, people with jailbroken iPhones are also successfully using the $10/mo plan.

    4. Re:I Just Did... by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Informative

      Replying to myself, here's a thread buried in the Amazon reviews for the N900 that seems to have mixed experiences of people getting various tricks to work. It sounds, based on that, like T-Mobile is just being somewhat lax about checking what phones are allowed to connect to the $10 plan, so I'm not sure I'd count on it as a long-term or generally available solution for cheap-data smartphones.

    5. Re:I Just Did... by sznupi · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not a case of usual "differs from market to market". US is practically the only of major ones where Nokia doesn't dominate the landscape (I don't know the numbers but I guess you could also include Japan and S. Korea, they are quite isolated from the world at large when it comes to cellphone trends)

      Ignoring Nokia when talking about "future of mobile phones" isn't some small regional peculiarity, it's talking solely about your local market (while not giving that impression, perhaps even not realizing)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    6. Re:I Just Did... by WaywardGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably hate T-Mobile in a month.

      Verizon pissed me off by never letting me use my own camera for free. They had good coverage, though. With the Motorola Droid, I'd consider going back to them. AT&T pissed me off by screwing up account details with Apple, which eventually led to my iPhone being borked by Apple. T-Mobile has been good to me, with voice coverage at least as good as AT&T, and reasonable G3, and excellent EDGE coverage. When I wanted to go to Europe and use my G1 with another SIM card, T-Mobile send me the unlock code for free, with no fuss. My plan (voice + unlimited data) is only $60/month, a full $10 less than AT&T or Verizon. I hate my G1 (the hardware sucks big-time), but I'm super-excited about both the Nexus One and Sony Ericson Experia X10. Well... I'm a LOT more excited about the Nexus One. Give me one of those, and I'll probably be a long-term T-Mobile user.

      So, I predict that T-Mobile will not piss you off in a month. It will probably take three.

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    7. Re:I Just Did... by Nursie · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going to comment on that too. Android is a linux kernel with a custom userspace and display layer, AFAIK (and I've poked around the internals a bit).

  2. I know what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I want an Android's brain in an iPhone's body.

    1. Re:I know what by symbolset · · Score: 3, Funny

      Modded funny, should be insightful.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  3. All in the data by MrDoh! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Pretty soon, we'll be buying phones with data plans and the voice plan will be optional (if needed at all).
    All we need is Google to get their phones coming with a VOIP client as standard. Big unique selling point that no matter what network, or if you're not even on a network but just have wireless at home/work/in car/train/plane, you can make/receive calls.

    Using phone numbers and keeping a local phonebook of addresses makes as much sense as using IP numbers in a browser to get to a website. Google providing their DNS to allow new services to be added like this was another one of the steps needed to be done. Google Voice is a stopgap, their newly acquisitioned VOIP stuff is the next step.

    Shortly, it'll be standard to call someone using an email address and the data-networks will route as needed to their phone/home/business.

    --
    Waiting for an amusing sig.
    1. Re:All in the data by kurt555gs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When I call up the phone app on the n900, the menu asks what typr of call I want to make:

      cell
      skype (dial out minutes required)
      google talk (to some ones computer)
      sip (I have a gizmo5 account liked to my google voice number)

      The N900 can also get incoming calls from any of those, and treats them the same as a cellular call.

      If I wanted to pay moe at Skype for a call in number, it would handle that to. All of these work over 3G or WLAN.

      It is seamless to the user.

      --
      * Carthago Delenda Est *
  4. Not a fun conclusion... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here's one reason for the Nexus One that I haven't seen yet.

    Google wants it's employees to use Android and test new versions and be inspired to come up with interesting applications. The best way to do this is to give all your employees phones. If you're doing that, you might as well come up with a cool phone. It's not like Google doesn't have the money to do this.

    So, no, there's no ulterior motive about breaking the cellphone companies' grip on the market. There's no plan to sell it through T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, or even Mosaic telecom. All there is a phone that Google can give to their employees for testing and being creative with. That's it.

    I know, I know. It's far more fun to believe that these corporations are doing all of these things as a battle that we can sit back and enjoy. But the reality is usually far more mundane.

    1. Re:Not a fun conclusion... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your theory does not jibe with Google's involvement with the FCC spectrum bidding a year or two ago.
      Remember how they lobbied to get extra conditions imposed as a contingency for licensing?
      They only got a watered down version of what they wanted, but it was still enough that the spectrum licensee had to accept 3rd party devices on their network. Devices just like an unlocked phone from some company other than the telco.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  5. Re:Buzzwords! Buzzwords! Buzzosphere! by Dravik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple depends on the "walled garden" approach to sell apps and music. When the mobile telcos go the way of AOL, apple's walled garden goes to the same place AOLs walled garden went. Oblivion.

    --
    The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
  6. What Makes Sense by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 5, Funny

    So for the past five years or more, they've been doing their best not to get dragged into a game of beggar-my-neighbor

    Because the game of "bugger-my-customer" is so much more fun...

    --
    "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    1. Re:What Makes Sense by Dravik · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's an expression used to express options that give short term relative boot to an individual by causing damage to his neighbors. You'll hear to expression a lot if you look into the great depression economic and trade policies. Most beggar-thy-neighbor actions can be taken by all individuals and thus come back on those who implement them. As it applies to the cell companies: The first one to embrace the data pipe only model would gain significant market-share and revenue initially, but when the other companies responded with the same cheap data only plans every cell company would end up higher capital costs and lower revenue. The first mover company would see a short term spike in revenue and then it would collapse to lower than before they made the change.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
  7. what if ? by kenshin33 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Scary or neat?? that is the question. here's a thought, what if they (cel/tel cos) are already packet switching and making people pay for circuit switching?

  8. Re:Awesome.... by lewko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's too hard due to the land size.

    Whereas in Europe or the Middle East, you can establish a network with 100% population coverage quite easily, the same size network in Australia wouldn't cover a single state.

    Same goes for broadband networks. It's too hard which is why nobody has ever really competed with Telstra.

    --
    Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  9. 3G will be the next standard feature by sl149q · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As WiFi migrates from Laptops to Desktops 3G chipsets will start to be standard items in Netbooks, then Laptops. This will help push data only plans down in price. And then 3G will migrate everywhere. Your car, your GPS (handheld, bike, car), cameras, etc etc.

    Five years from now your 3G provider bill will have a list of your many 3G enabled devices. Perhaps one or two might have traditional voice plans. All will have data plans.

    Carriers that allow you to aggregate devices and total transfer at reasonable prices will survive.

    Carriers that stick to the current voice plus optional (expensive) data will not.

    The only question is how long it takes to get there.

  10. Re:Buzzwords! Buzzwords! Buzzosphere! by Dracos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought of this also when I was reading TFA. The Internet tears down all garden walls, AOL is only the most obvious example.

    The Internet tore down the walled garden of every BBS that ever existed, and the operators were glad of it for the most part.

    It's tearing down the MAFIAA's walled garden of distribution. Movie studios dislike NetFlix and they hate Red Box. The music cartel really doesn't like iTunes, but they tolerate it because they get a cut. And they all despise The Pirate Bay, et al.

    The Internet is tearing down Microsoft's walled garden of software (which is what they mean when they say "ecosystem"). Don't like Windows? Go download any of a handful of BSD's or several dozen Linux distros. And you get the opportunity to make better whichever you choose.

    (Which is why I laugh every time I see a Win7 commercial... MS is actually touting the fact that Win7 wasn't their idea. Now, about that monolithic kernel...)

  11. What's the value of an unlocked US cellphone? by jerryasher · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is there something I don't understand? I don't think unlocking a US cellphone has any additional value than an unlocked US cellphone. The phone's most value is on its original network and it's almost worthless on any other network.

    All GSM is not equal. Unlock a T-Mobile cellphone and move it to AT&T and you get a degraded EDGE speed. And I assume that's true in reverse. An unlocked AT&T cellphone presumably has poor speed on T-Mobiles network.

    All CDMA is not equal. A Verizon phone cannot necessarily be switched to Sprint -- my experience is that Sprint has to support that phone explicitly in its own network, including a possible new firmware load. And presumably vice versa.

    And of course a GSM phone cannot be activated on a CDMA network or vice-versa.

    So even if you can unlock your phone, there doesn't seem to be ANY interoperability with respect to carriers. Your unlocked phone has the most value on the network it came from, and almost no value on any other network.

    So what's the point of unlocking it?

    Please feel free to correct me and point out all the things I don't understand about cellphones. Cause I don't get it, and I assume it's due to my ignorance.

    1. Re:What's the value of an unlocked US cellphone? by Karganeth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is there something I don't understand? I don't think unlocking a US cellphone has any additional value than an unlocked US cellphone. The phone's most value is on its original network and it's almost worthless on any other network.

      Why would you think that? How is a phone worthless on another network? Do you even understand what unlocking is?

      Here in the UK, lots of little shops offer to unlock your phone. And people pay for it, because its worth moneys to have an unlocked phone.

    2. Re:What's the value of an unlocked US cellphone? by JWSmythe · · Score: 2, Informative

          Unlocking works if your phone is capable of working on other networks. That's why the manufacturers advertise how many networks they work on.

          I had Nextel back in the day, before Sprint bought them and started raping their customers with extra fees. (I was getting $300 for various things, even though there was no service at my house, and the phone sat on my desk with a dead battery). A friend of mine bought two unlocked Boost Mobile phones, because she thought they looked nicer. She gave me one, and I used it on the Nextel network without problems (like, since they were the same network anyways).

          Even a nice world wide "standard" like GSM, has 14 different frequency bands, so your phone may or may not work in a particular location.

          A long time ago, I bought a GSM phone in Europe. It only worked on that provider, in that country. After I got back to the states, I gave it to a friend who was traveling to another country in Europe. Even though that provider had service in that country, it wouldn't work. It was the cheapest prepaid phone I could get my hands on that day, so I didn't really expect much of it. It suited it's purpose (having a cell for the week I was there).

          Some phones are more cooperative, because they work with multiple frequencies, or they happen to use the same frequency. I knew someone who lived in Europe, who would come to the states, and his phone became a US phone as soon as he got off the plane. :) They were completely unrelated providers, but it worked, so he was happy.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    3. Re:What's the value of an unlocked US cellphone? by jfanning · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your GSM phone was probably locked to the original provider. That is why it is important to buy an _unlocked_ phone.

      All operators in Europe are basically on the same frequencies. I can go to any country in Europe and my phone "just works". If I don't want to pay roaming fees then I can stick in a local SIM and it "just works".

      The problem in the US is that your stupid providers choose/got assigned different bands to operate on. So phones physically have to be capable of working on those frequency bands. In most cases Nokia will make them work on one or the other (so AT&T or TMobile), but not both.

      If you want to find what frequencies each network supports you can check them all out at GSM World. They also cover UMTS 3G networks. http://gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml

    4. Re:What's the value of an unlocked US cellphone? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why would you think that? How is a phone worthless on another network? Do you even understand what unlocking is?

      Do you understand what the tower of Babel of different mobile phone protocols the North American market is? If not, please reread the posting to which you replied, as he mentioned those issues (e.g., "And of course a GSM phone cannot be activated on a CDMA network or vice-versa.")

      Here in the UK, lots of little shops offer to unlock your phone. And people pay for it, because its worth moneys to have an unlocked phone.

      Here in the US, you can unlock a phone you got for, for example, the AT&T mobile phone network, and you will not be able to use it on, for example, the Verizon Wireless mobile phone network, for purely technical reasons - AT&T uses GSM and UMTS, Verizon use cdmaOne and CDMA2000. There in the UK, all providers, as far as I know, use GSM and UMTS.

      That's why he said "unlocked US cellphone", not "unlocked cellphone". He wasn't saying "unlocked cellphones aren't useful anywhere", he was saying "unlocked cell phones aren't useful in the US market".

  12. Re:"Apple are..."? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Seriously, "Apple are ..." is correct in British English. Not everyone lives in the US or speaks American English.

  13. Apple's patents pre-emptive? by linuxtelephony · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You know, if I were the paranoid type, I might be prone to think there were some high level shenanigans going on.

    Remember the Apple patent enforcing ad viewing or the Apple patent on OS advertising?

    Google is known for its advertising business, and has been putting ads everywhere. Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board from 2006 to 2009, when he resigned (or was forced out?) due to Google's entering "more of Apple's core business" with Chrome and Android. The new, unlocked, Google phone has plenty of speculation surrounding it, but one of the more interesting bits was that it could show up in two forms: (1) expensive, not subsidized, and (2) cheap, with advertising subsidizing it somehow, perhaps forced ad viewing or something?

    Given Schmidt's time on the board, I wonder if he deliberately or inadvertently revealed any of these plans, or if Apple found itself aware of these plans through some other means. Regardless, if Apple has a patent on OS-level ad displays and/or forced ad viewing on a device, it would seem that they would be in a position to try and extract money from Google if they go forward with an ad-subsidized phone.

    So now this begs the questions: Was Apple's patents on these concepts the result of information about Google's upcoming plans (either acquired legitimately or otherwise), or were they plans they had for a device of their own? Tough to say.

    Personally I'm all for the carriers to be reduced to a conduit provider only. It's about time too. If they all had to compete as nearly identical providers of bandwidth instead of a myriad of services, then perhaps we'd see some improvements in the network quality. In fact, they'd have a lot more network capacity if they'd deliver one type of service instead of fragmenting it between different technologies. A friend and I often lament the poor audio quality people have come to expect from wrieless phones now that we are 100% digital. Sure there's no more "static" - but audio quality has suffered to get there.

    I'm hopeful LTE will improve things - though I'm not holding my breath for it. It's going to be an expensive network upgrade that won't happen overnight. Sprint is banking on wimax and outsourcing their network, Verizon is claiming latter half 2010 for LTE. And along the way comes Google's Android and the exclusivity of the iPhone on AT&T nearing expiration (was it renewed? last I read it was all talk but I didn't see anything come from it), perhaps we'll finally have some heavy hitters that can break the carrier strangleholds. Should be interesting if they can.

    --
    . 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
  14. Re:Buzzwords! Buzzwords! Buzzosphere! by ScottForbes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not really. Apple's relationship with the music industry (and, to a large extent, their handling of iPhone apps) is more like Volvo's relationship to the petroleum industry... if the entire petroleum industry had failed, in spectacular fashion, to come up with a workable means of delivering gasoline to consumers, had spent half a decade suing anyone who tried to deliver gasoline to consumers, and then Volvo had stepped in and opened the Volvo Gas Store. Apple started selling music online because the RIAA wouldn't, not because they wanted to compete with music retailers - although it certainly didn't hurt that the music industry morons accidentally gave Apple enough pricing power to made 99-cent tracks the new sales model.

    In other words, Apple is in the business of selling hardware; the music is just a commodity to them, and their only purpose in selling it is to drive more sales of Apple hardware. On the internet bandwidth is already a pure commodity, and Apple's music store is no danger of fading into oblivion: If anything the opposite is true and Apple is dominating online music sales, again thanks to the music industry morons who gave Apple an insurmountable lead (and made the even dumber mistake of allowing DRM that locked the music to the Apple hardware, but that's another story).

    It's also telling that iPhone apps quickly raced to the bottom of the pricing scale: If a 99-cent app delivers more than a dollar's worth of value to the customer, then the app has effectively added value to the phone, and Apple pockets the difference in increased hardware sales. If AT&T Wireless became a pure-bandwidth provider, the only thing Apple would do is to stop turning away apps AT&T doesn't like - Skype, Google Voice, Slingbox, etc. - and let those apps add value to the phone as well.

    The only thing that might endanger Apple's walled-garden approach to selling iPhone apps would be a competitor with a wide-open app store that attracted more developers, led to more interesting apps, and threatened to reduce the value that third-party apps currently deliver to the iPhone. The Nexus One is a signal that Google wants to go there (and, in passing, that Verizon and other carriers will fight tooth and nail to prevent opening their networks), but the most likely outcome here is pressure on Apple to make their app rejection policies more transparent and developer-friendly.

    So I don't think there's a scenario where Apple's music and app stores fade into oblivion, even if wireless bandwidth becomes a commodity - again, bandwidth is already a commodity on the wired internet, and both the music store and the iPod Touch are thriving.

  15. Re:Awesome.... by Garble+Snarky · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm with Telstra due to my remote location, and I pay exorbitant prices for voice and data.

    Isn't that how utility distribution works? If you live by yourself 400 miles from the nearest town, why shouldn't you pay exorbitant prices for a company to run 400 miles of line/pipe/whatever to serve only you? I don't know anything about your situation or whats going on with Australian telcos, this is just an honest question.

  16. We need a Debian Atp-Get model for phones by pecosdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Google really needs to rip off Apt and Synaptics and make a version for their phones. All the way. Not only do they need to make multiple version specific repositories (and tested, don't let Debian and its ability to break stable regularly set to much of an example). The ability of users to add custom repositories for our apps that Google wont stamp with approval would be nice as well. We really need the carriers and their inability to do anything but lump surcharges on top of crap out of the way.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:We need a Debian Atp-Get model for phones by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2, Informative

      Google really needs to rip off Apt and Synaptics and make a version for their phones.

      What, you mean like Nokia already does?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    2. Re:We need a Debian Atp-Get model for phones by pecosdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had Lenny installed before it became stable. All was good. When Lenny became stable, I kept it. They decided to do a "patch" on the firewire drivers. My Firewire quit working.

      My sound worked perfectly on Lenny and for that matter Etch when I first installed it. There was yet another update that broke my sound. If I jacked with that for an hour or two I could get it to work, in a few programs, but then it would break again after a reboot or two. (I actually shut my laptop down when I'm not using it)

      On another machine the "going stable rush" caused a package cram that broke testing so bad I couldn't fix my system in any easily seen manner, so, considering the way I kept /home as a completely separate drive I decided to just reinstall stable from the standard web install disk. THEY HAD BROKE STABLE SO BAD I COULDN'T INSTALL IT.

      I personally thing Debian is the absolute best Linux distro out there. I used to use Testing as my normal distro (whichever testing that happened to be at the time) but I got tired of battling broken packages and things getting merged in that weren't quite ready. I understood that's what testing was for so I decided to just stick with stable. Stable did it also - using my firewire and sound as an example. I'm rather good at troubleshooting. If I can't figure something out, I'll shotgun it, do a complete package removal, even config files, then I'll go into my ~ and delete local configs. If it's bad enough I'll do complete remove even on dependent packages even if it means X is no longer on my system by the time I'm done. This is how I got my sound to work half assed again.

      Every time I hit "mark all upgrades" it's a game of Russian roulette. I don't want to just not mark all upgrades occasionally, security reasons, holes get fixed and I really would like a more up to date browser or something on occasion. My current laptop has pretty standard Centrino hardware, it's a Toshiba Tecra A5. I have Kubuntu on it right now and it's working great. I seriously don't like Ubuntu, it's a good OS, I recommend it to beginners, but to me it feels like I'm back to using training wheels. I can fix almost any problem I run into and I can look online for known fixes if I can't figure it out for myself, but developer name calling and squabbles show up in the end product all to often of Debian. Most of the downstream distros use the working packages and mix versions that eliminate most of the internal Debian squabbles, which unfortunately once a borked package goes out on Debian it tends to stay broke for quite a while. (use ZSNES for an example)

      As for the Apt reference, I was talking about concept, not code. I knew the code wouldn't work.

      One last note, I certainly am not a Red Hat fan.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    3. Re:We need a Debian Atp-Get model for phones by jilles · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, Maemo is essentially a Debian derivative with the fully functional debian package management tools installed and configured to be used with Nokia software repositories for over the air apt-get updates & upgrades (i.e. no need to flash the device with new firmware, you'll get updates as they are made available). You can install a package from the officially supported (i.e. no need for hacks to accomplish this) list of packages to get a root shell after which you can modify sources.list to e.g. add one of the several repositories for free (OSS) goodies or even your own repository (which is really nice if you are developing for the device).

      http://repository.maemo.org/

      This is right now the only device that is truly open to modification and usable as an actual phone at the same time. There are many linux phones on the market but most are either intended for developers and barely functional or intended for end users and completely locked down (e.g. pretty much any Android phone). The N900 is not locked down, comes with official support to get root access, excellent linux based SDK, an excellent mozilla based browser, excellent multimedia and multitasking support, and it is a pretty good phone too.

      disclaimer: I work for Nokia but just check the many independent reviewers for some more or less unanimously shared enthusiasm about what this phone can do.

      --

      Jilles
  17. Which phones are actually any good? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The really annoying part is trying to get a phone that actually is any good. Because of spotty coverage, different phones on each carrier, etc. it is remarkably difficult to figure out which phone actually works the best just for "making calls" by any absolute measurement, which gives makers a lot more leeway on quality (since they don't really have to compete against any standard).

    --
    stuff |
  18. Illogical? Ungrammatical? by jjo · · Score: 2, Informative
    Two points:
    1. The British usage in this case is reaching through the corporation (Apple, singular) to the ultimate meaning of the corporation (Apple's management and employees, plural). To insist on the exclusive correctness of the singular would be to insist on the exclusive validity of the legal fiction that is a corporation. That would be absurd.
    2. It's an idiom! Idioms are, by definition, grammatical.
  19. Not just Nokia by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hear hear. I was thinking - an article written as if Apple and Google are the only phone companies? And believes the myth that the Iphone is a "runaway hit"? (Actual market share figures disagree.)

    TFA only mentions Symbian briefly, dismissing them as you say, on the grounds that they are losing share. Well yes - at 40% market share, I'd expect over time that to lower as other companies enter. That doesn't mean Apple are remotely near overtaking them. And anyhow, even if they want to focus on the newcomers - where on earth are RIM/Blackberry, who are also ahead of Apple?

    It talks about "Version 1" of 3G - but my old 3G feature phone from 2005 had full unrestricted access to the Internet (including tethering). I do agree that ultimately, phone companies need to transform themselves into mobile Internet providors, but it's clear that we're heading in that direction anyway, and I don't see why Apple are so special in this. Indeed, I hope Apple don't play a strong part of this - if they become dominant, then our 2019 mobile Internet, even if it's an open Internet, will only be available on a locked down platform where all software needs Apple approval to run. How is that an improvement?

    I agree it doesn't make sense to always restricting the market to only smartphones. It's not just that they're a minority of the market, but it's also so ill-defined. Anyone: why was my old 3G phone that could do Internet and run any applications a non-smartphone, yet Apple's original Iphone, which didn't have 3G, can only run Apple-approved applications, and didn't even support basic features like copy/paste, considered a smartphone? More generally, give me a definition that includes the Iphone, but doesn't include most "feature" phones?

    It's not just Nokia - Samsung, LG, Motorola are all companies that have bigger market share, yet you hardly ever hear about them.

  20. Wal-mart is in Europe, just by a different name by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    But with supermarkets, you'd expect it to be more focused on the country. E.g., a UK programme talking about supermarkets would only mention Tesco, Sainsbury etc, and you wouldn't expect to hear a mention of Wal-mart.

    But imagine a UK programme talking about the latest in computer technology, and then focusing solely on Acorn Archimedes and RISCOS as if that's all that existed? Wouldn't you think that a bit bizarre? Now imagine those stories getting pasted all around the Internet. That's how it looks to us with all these nothing-but-Iphone stories.

    And your example is flawed anyway, because Wal-mart does operate in Europe, just under a different brandname (Asda in the UK). So they would get a mention in my hypothetical UK programme.

  21. Re:Awesome.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Except you can't just compare the countries as a whole. The US has areas of incredible densities, and areas that are so sparsely populated you can drive for hours and not see another person.

    For example, the population density of Finland is 16/sq km. The US has 12 states that are less than that. There are 7 states that are less than half of that. Even ignoring Alaska, they have 4 states in the contiguous 48 states that are less than 1/4 of that.

    For reference, those 4 states have an approximate area of 380k + 253k + 200k + 183k = 1.02 million sq km. (Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota.) This is compared to 338,000 sq km for Finland.

    So, don't just grab some population statistics, and higher prices and claim the US is incompetent. From your short post I can tell you have no idea what problems the US has compared to Europe when it comes to creating nationwide infrastructure. Now, if you want to talk about corporate greed, that's an entirely different conversation.

  22. This would make Apple very happy by blamanj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't think the competition between Google and Apple is the issue here, but the point about telcos as commodities seems spot on. Apple could sell unlocked phones just as easily as Google, there have been rumors about a Verizon iPhone for months. Also, having the telcos as commodities doesn't hurt Apple's ability to be an "experience company." Apple's machines plug into the same internet, the same power grid, the same USB connectors, etc. as all the rest. The way Apple controls the experience is buy selling both the hardware and the software together.