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Alternative 2009 Copyright Expirations

jrincayc writes "It's nearly the end of 2009. If the 1790 copyright maximum term of 28 years was still in effect, everything that had been published by 1981 would be now be in the public domain — like the original Ultima and God Emperor of Dune — and would be available for remixing and mashing up. If the 1909 copyright maximum term of 56 years (if renewed) were still in force, everything published by 1953 would now be in the public domain, freeing The City and the Stars and Forbidden Planet. If the 1976 copyright act term of 75* years (* it's complicated) still applied, everything published by 1934 would now be in the public domain, including Murder on the Orient Express. But thanks to the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, nothing in the US will go free until 2018, when 1923 works expire." Assuming Congress doesn't step in with a Copyright Extension Act of 2017. What are the odds?

37 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. What did you expect? by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I give you a prediction:

    New law - Copyright doesn't expire.
    Consequences - Not enough people care and life goes on.

    1. Re:What did you expect? by bl968 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It can't happen without amending the U.S. Constitution.

      To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; -
      Article 1, Section 8, Clause 8

      The key word there is limited time. The problem has arisen is that the courts have defined limited as anything short of forever, and I think it stretches the Constitution beyond all meaning. Originally you could register a copyright for 7 years, and renew it one time for another 7. This was when shipping between cities could take weeks, and to cross continents could take years. With modern distribution copyright durations should be decreasing not increasing. Copyright was never intended to be a life time income source, and it definitely was not intended to cover heirs.

      --
      "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
    2. Re:What did you expect? by praksys · · Score: 4, Informative

      The case was ELDRED V. ASHCROFT. Lawrence Lessig (and others) pointed out that the constitution only allows copyrights to be granted "for a limited time". SCOTUS responded that they couldn't give a shit what the constitution says. The decision was 7-2 so it's highly unlikely that the court will change it's mind anytime soon.

    3. Re:What did you expect? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lawrence Lessig argued that before the SCOTUS, and they wouldn't buy even that basic point, IIRC.

    4. Re:What did you expect? by uglyduckling · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's pretty obvious really. The whole point of copyright was to enable the creator to benefit commercially from their artwork for a limited period so that they would have an income and be able to continue producing works that enrich/entertain society. As distribution has become quicker and quicker, the time needed for an artist to commercially exploit their work has decreased and therefore the time period for which copyright applies ought to be shorter, not longer, than in the past.

      What has happened instead is that time periods have been extended, more and more money has been made, which has concentrated the means of distribution into fewer hands, with the net effect of decreasing the amount of art (music, literature etc.) that is widely available. This is now starting to change with digital distribution, although it's quite clear that DRM is not about preventing the pirating of works (because it doesn't stop commercial pirates) but is about maintaining a barrier to entry into the market.

    5. Re:What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      SCOTUS responded "On paper, it is limited - we don't care if Congress keeps changing the limit."

      While I disagree with the decision, it's not QUITE the same thing as "[we] couldn't give a shit what the constitution says."

    6. Re:What did you expect? by darthflo · · Score: 4, Funny

      So what they meant was "we couldn't give a shit what the constitution intends[, we're happy to have it's purpose undermined to the point it's hollower than a slice of swiss cheese]".

      Yay for living in Europe, where the spirit of the law still counts for something.

    7. Re:What did you expect? by cboslin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's pretty obvious really. The whole point of copyright was to enable the creator to benefit commercially from their artwork for a limited period so that they would have an income and be able to continue producing works that enrich/entertain society. As distribution has become quicker and quicker, the time needed for an artist to commercially exploit their work has decreased and therefore the time period for which copyright applies ought to be shorter, not longer, than in the past.

      What has happened instead is that time periods have been extended, more and more money has been made, which has concentrated the means of distribution into fewer hands, with the net effect of decreasing the amount of art (music, literature etc.) that is widely available. This is now starting to change with digital distribution, although it's quite clear that DRM is not about preventing the pirating of works (because it doesn't stop commercial pirates) but is about maintaining a barrier to entry into the market.

      Great post, simple to the point.

      Another reason to DENY companies person-hood

      What in the constitution allows a company to buy the rights from a person and continue them in force as if they are a person?

      Everything we need to fix problems with corporations are in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. If we really are a nation of laws, its time to start enforcing them.

      Even Presidents must NOT be above the law!

      To not enforce laws ensures their continued abuse. I do not think that this is what our founding fathers had in mind!

    8. Re:What did you expect? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another reason to DENY companies person-hood

      You're focusing on the wrong problem. The issue isn't corporate personhood, but rather with certain legal persons (natural or corporate) having too much power. It really isn't any better for the person "J.P. Morgan" to be able to buy a congressman than it is for company "J.P. Morgan Chase" to be able to do the same thing.

      Changing some arcane corporate classification don't help a damned thing.

      What will help is limiting how influential a single person can be. Limit the maximum size of corporations. Institute a super-progressive income tax that asymptotically approaches 100% as you reach, say, the 99th percentile of the population.

      No man on earth is worth FOUR BILLION times that of another human being, no matter who is he or what he's done.

    9. Re:What did you expect? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SCOTUS responded "On paper, it is limited - we don't care if Congress keeps changing the limit."

      While I disagree with the decision, it's not QUITE the same thing as "[we] couldn't give a shit what the constitution says."

      If limited can mean "until the sun burns out", you have effectively stricken "for limited times" from the constitution. If you can play with words like that, it's worth less than toilet paper.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:What did you expect? by Genda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Copyright was never intended to be a life time income source, and it definitely was not intended to cover heirs.

      No, it's intended to be an indefinite source of income for the RIAA, MPAA, and a growing list of IP holders who effectively want to own all meaningful human endeavor.

    11. Re:What did you expect? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's democracy in action, people directly making their own decisions.

      Sometimes, everyone making the decision that's best for himself leads to an outcome that's terrible for everyone.

    12. Re:What did you expect? by timmarhy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's crazy when in the same sentence they talk about "to promote the progress of science and useful arts" and then extend copyright out to 75 years, completely eliminating a persons need to continue progress, and just let them milk one piece of content for ever...

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    13. Re:What did you expect? by langarto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yay for living in Europe, where the spirit of the law still counts for something.

      I am European, but I am sick of reading claims like this one in Slashdot and elsewere. It makes no sense to pretend that we are better than the Americans, or that our laws are more fair or that our politicians are better. In most areas we are almost as bad as the states (and copyright is one of them), while in other areas we are even worse.

      And we both (Americans and Europeans) are seeing our laws changing continuously for the worse, and we will end up with a very similar set of laws in the end: those that are good for the people in power (i.e.: the corporations).

      You think "the spirit of the law" counts for something in Europe? Do you trust those currently in power in your country to uphold it? Do you think the European Comission cares about "the spirit" of anything?

    14. Re:What did you expect? by silentcoder · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Jack Valenti during his MPAA reign actually proposed working around the "limited" line by making it "forever minus one day".

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    15. Re:What did you expect? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do you think the European Comission cares about "the spirit" of anything?

      Only if it's of high enough proof.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:What did you expect? by lorenlal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you trust those currently in power in your country to uphold it? Do you think the European Comission cares about "the spirit" of anything?

      I trust those in power to do whatever they are told to by their biggest donors. I think the EC and the US government will do whatever they can, and enact any law they can to further the "spirit" of those donations.

    17. Re:What did you expect? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It doesn't even matter anymore, does it?

      DRM will take care of copyright not playing a role anymore quite soon. And more movies will be added to the lost movies list. Not because we can't find a copy anywhere. Simply because duplicating it to new media is made impossible and any medium deteriorates over time. It's in the hand of the rights holder whether a movie, a computer game, a song gets "lost". At least until accidents happen and the single existing DRM-free master gets destroyed.

      If you look at the "lost films" list, you will notice that many movies are "almost" lost, because only a fractioned copy of the movie exists, with missing scenes, torn and worn by years of showing. In other cases, films are rediscovered in a cache somewhere, even if the master has been lost in something like the fire in the Paramount storage.

      Take a look at the rediscovered list. It includes such historic material as the first Frankenstein film, W.C. Fields first movie, the first Titanic movie (made 1912), and also important documents of early FX mastery as Metropolis (which was only existing in fragments until an almost complete copy was discovered last year). Now imagine these movies gone.

      This means losing history. Art history. And we will see a lot of it happen in the future. And while I tend to agree that with many movies made today it would probably not be a loss to art, for many more it would certainly be. What I personally find especially scary is that it will become trivial for rights holders and even governments to make movies disappear should they become politically or otherwise "unfavorable".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    18. Re:What did you expect? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Typically, seizing the assets of the wealthy in order to redistribute them to the masses leads to majority unemployment and hyperinflation. Just like twentieth-century South America.

      Or present-day Zimbabwe. You're right: uncontrolled, ad-hoc, and chaotic confiscation produces economic mayhem. Granted, in all these cases, the economic populism was also coupled with a thoroughly rotten political system (take, say, Peronism) which confuses the analysis somewhat.

      But that's not to say that all wealth redistribution will cause catastrophe. In the 1950s and 60s, we had high top-end income taxes here that worked very well; Europe still does, and they're better off for them, having some of the lowest gini coefficients and the highest standards of living in the world.

      In order to make wealth redistribution work:

      • don't take property directly: instead, put a tax on wealth
      • spend the additional revenue on infrastructure and social development with Keynesian properties (like healthcare and education)
      • make the process fair and transparent: use simple rules that convince everyone the process is happening according to established principles
      • make the maximum wealth level high enough to provide plenty of incentive to work

      (By the way: instead of causing hyperinflation, raising our top-end tax rates would substantially reduce our budget deficit, strengthening the dollar.)

  2. Sickening by mirix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I vomit a little bit when I think about the state of copyright. Surely this is advancing the collective cultural repository?

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
    1. Re:Sickening by iamapizza · · Score: 5, Funny

      It depends on the contents of your vomit, but yes, I'd imagine it'd be an advancing collection of cultures, from your repository.

      --
      Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
    2. Re:Sickening by uglyduckling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. We're now in a situation where copyright extends well beyond the likely lifetime of the creator(s) of the work in questions. Endlessly extending copyright causes a net decrease in the amount of books/music/etc. available, here's why:

      Long copyright terms have made music and literature into big business and concentrated the means of production and distribution into the hands of mega-corporations who get to decide what is published and what isn't. Long terms encourage companies to exploit their back catalogue ad nauseam rather than constantly seeking out new talent because they know that within [less than a decade | whatever short time period] all of their current catalogue would be valueless. Musicians only have to produce a couple of hit singles to be made for life, and then they can churn out mindless 'concept' albums that no-one really wants to hear. Conversely, manufactured bands can record covers of hits from 10 years ago, and because the big corps control the market, you end up with shops saturated with music that's already been sold ten times over (unless, apparently, you buy Rage Against the Machine).

      If copyright terms were short, amateur musicians like me could record covers of hits from 10 years ago and enjoy the pleasure of recording and giving away music or distributing for free / cheap online. Why should I not be able to record a cover version of a song that's been sitting in a record label's back catalogue and hasn't seen the light of day for 40 years? Compare this to the software market, where software from as recently as the 1980s is being perceived as 'abandonware' and available for download online on the premise that the copyright is owned by companies that no longer exist and therefore no-one will challenge it.

      The point is, copyright per se is a good thing, but the never-ending extension of its terms is definitely bad. It's now well over the the line from stimulating creativity to just lining the pockets of the already very-rich, and the way that the market is set up makes it very difficult for small-time artists to make a dent.

    3. Re:Sickening by Froboz23 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Seriously - there is no justification for extension of copyright being retroactive. People aren't going to be motivated to retroactively create new old works...

      Time Lords need creative incentives too, you insensitive clod!

      --
      Take off every Sig. For great justice.
  3. Fair Copyright by bl968 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Give them 7 years, after 7 years, they have to renew the copyright every year for $50-100. If they fail to renew it it becomes public domain. Prohibit the outsourcing of this process, require the actual copyright holder to submit a signed statement each year with the renewal, change the forms yearly to prevent them from stockpiling 100 years of renewals. This process should have a search-able registry of all active copyrights and who to contact about licensing rights. This would allow economically supported works to continue in copyright as long as it is economically supported, but it would also allow orphan works to enter the public domain much faster. It's called balance, and would be a revenue generator for the Government.

    Also they could require the work to actually be available for purchase during the previous year, or else you can not renew it. This would stop the Disney-ish practice of copyright holders removing their their copyrighted works from the market to generate a artificial demand later on for their product.

    --
    "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
    1. Re:Fair Copyright by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Instead of $50-$100, make the copyright holder choose and pay a fee of 1000x the cost of license.
      If you paid $1000, I can have a copy of your work for $1. If you paid $10k, I can have it for $10. If you paid $10, I can get a copy for $0.01. And you're not permitted not to license the work to me for that amount.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    2. Re:Fair Copyright by mirix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How would this work with legal persons though? They have more resources to renew and such than a single natural person. I suppose only allowing natural persons to have copyright would be a nice start.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
  4. Mandatory reply by mdenham · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Melancholy Elephants by Spider Robinson. This is the best-written argument I've seen against non-expiring copyrights (and, by extension, copyrights of inanely long duration).

  5. Not 2017, but by 2023... by Afforess · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The next copyright extension will be by 2023. Why? Because that's when the Walt Disney Corp will lose it's copyright on Mickey Mouse. And there is no way they would ever willingly lose their symbol. Walt Disney is the largest lobbying force in the Copyright Term Extensions, primarily because of all their older, but well recognized artistic works.

    Politicians, from both parties, are easily purchased to vote for Copyright laws. Copyright laws appeal to both Democrats and Republican lawmakers. Democrats, because by keeping copyright laws in effect makes them seem like they are protecting the (copy) "rights" of the people, making their constituents happy. Republicans, because by keeping copyright laws in effect makes them seem like they are protecting the rights of business, making their constituents happy. And when both parties agree... everyone loses.

    The biggest problem with copyrights though isn't that it is becoming such a big political issue, at least with some groups of people, or that it is easy to "presuade" lawmakers to side with the copyright holders; it's that Copyright laws are merely a symptom of the disease. Simply rolling copyright laws back to 1790 levels would only be a temporary solution. That fix would be repealed within the decade. The voters need to completely re-shape the political atmosphere of America, perhaps removing the 2 party system entirely (5 political parties, anyone?), or at least reforming the political parties so that Special Interests have much less of a say on future laws and bills. But if we only see more of the same, I expect to eventually see copyrights last an "indetermined" amount of time. Your great-grand-children may live to see the Mickey Mouse copyright expire...maybe.

    --
    If our elected representatives no longer represent us, do we still live in a Democracy?
    1. Re:Not 2017, but by 2023... by mirix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I too, would enjoy a license to print money. Can I get the exemption?

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    2. Re:Not 2017, but by 2023... by dryo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a well-known fact that the limit of US copyright is always at least the age of Mickey Mouse plus one year. It's kind like Moore's Law for copyright attorneys.

    3. Re:Not 2017, but by 2023... by JumperCable · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then the answer is simple. We must culturally kill Mikey.

  6. Re:For fuck's sake! by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, what do you expect? That is the state of creatives in the year 2010. They honestly can not think of anything new, and only plunder the past for its riches. Can you imagine a cultural and artistic flowering like the 60s in our current age? Hell, even establishment stooges like Perry Como or Frank Sinatra seem like cutting-edge innovators compared to Lady Gaga or Alicia Keys.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  7. God Emperor of Dune? by gzipped_tar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Poor Leto. Killed by *all* those inner voices demanding royalties for the copyright of their memories. Eternal royalties. The Golden Path ends before it could begin.

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
  8. Copyright extension act by ommerson · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sonny Bono's main argument in favour of the Copyright Extension Act hinged on providing a retirement fund for composers. So, it's somewhat ironic that killed himself by wrapping himself around a tree whilst skiing only a few years later.

    Cliff Richards acted as a figurehead for a campaign in the UK to lengthen the copyright term on sound recordings [1] using similar arguments. If only...

    [1] Very unsuccessfully - not least because some of his recordings were about to go out of copyright and the perception that he already had quite enough money.

  9. The most shameful... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... is not to keep commercial rights on these known books that we will still be able to buy by 2020. It is the millions of books that did not achieve enough popularity to still be easy to find. Not edited anymore but forbidden to save for posterity. Really, copyright is nothing to respect anymore.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  10. Re:For fuck's sake! by sznupi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ahh yes, in the good old days people weren't influenced by others in their activities. While you're at it, also point out that in the past youth wasn't on the road of moral and intellectual demise that will doom our civilization.

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
  11. Re:For fuck's sake! by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Funny
    That is the state of creatives in the year 2010. They honestly can not think of anything new, and only plunder the past for its riches.

    This is why Disney are doing the world a favour by repeatedly buying copyright extensions. It forces people to come up with their own creative original stories - you know, like Disney did - rather than ripping off other people's stories that just happen to be old enough to no longer be protected. Thanks to Disney, creative artists now have the kind of long-term protection that Hans Christian Andersen, Rudyard Kipling and Lewis Carroll never enjoyed, whereas cheap rip-off merchants who only plunder other people's ideas can no longer ply their grimy trade.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.