Slashdot Mirror
China Debuts the World's Fastest Train
An anonymous reader writes "China unveiled their new high speed train that clocks in at an average of 217 mph. China's new rail service travels through 20 cities along its route, connecting central China and less developed regions to the larger and more industrial Pearl River Delhi. Seimens, Bombardier and Alstom worked together to design and build this feat of modern transportation, which topped out at a whopping 245mph (394km/h) during trial runs earlier in December."
It's not hard, just expensive. Unlike the Chinese we actually have to pay market rates to compensate people for the right of way for the rails. Seizing private property and forcing the owners to accept a pittance in return just won't work in the U.S.
Well, if you want someone to blame, blame US corporations for sending jobs to China and the US government for allowing trillions of dollars of trade deficit with China, that enables their government to be the economic powerhouse it is. The biggest abusers of human rights in the world is not China--it is the multinational corporations, many of them headquartered in the US, that exploits people in developing countries for cheap labor and props up dictatorial regimes so long as they make it easy and profitable for them to do business. And if you want to find out how these corporations got so powerful, all you need to do is go look to the Americans whose insatiable desire for cheap mass-produced goods has fed their gluttony with their hard-earned dollars.
You want this high-speed rail technology in the US? Stop running up all that credit card debt. Stop turning over your livelihood and savings to buy your own little slice of the American McDream(tm).
OTOH, most countries have some part, perhaps a very small one, that has technology, local infrastructure, and such equivalent or better than the average in the developed world. Should we call every country "developed" as a result?
Seizing private property and forcing the owners to accept a pittance in return just won't work in the U.S.
I wish you were correct, but since Kelo v. New London, I have to disagree.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Not just the US, mind you, but the entire western world that is more than eager to offload manufacturing to China. We're all guilty of turning two blind eyes to save a buck, but I guess as long as we occasionally get to protest China's abuses in a public forum or some magazine opinion piece, all's well.
Kelo v. New London was about the government being able to use eminent domain to free up propety for commercial development. As far as I've seen it had nothing to do with the amount of compensation given to people for their property, and in Kelo v. New London the plaintiffs were given market value for their property.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
as for long distance rail, Amtrak is already unreliable. there is no reason to think that a new high speed train will be reliable and there is no benefit over flying.
I think there is some reason to think high-speed rail would be more reliable. One of Amtrak's major problems right now is that they don't own the rails they use, they share them with freight companies. A new high-speed rail line, however, would be built specifically for passenger service and would not have this problem.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
No, it's saying that if you stop shopping at Wal-Mart, you'll stop buying stuff made in China, and so stop financing their human-rights abuses.
Wwhich is wrong twice:
1. China was committing human rights abuses long before prosperity, even before Mao. Cutting off the money will NOT make things better.
2. You cannot avoid buying stuff made in China, unless you pay very close attention to what you buy and where. And even then, you will be buying some stuff made in China, and made with stuff gotten from China.
We need to lose the 'don't buy Chinese stuff' mentality, and stop discouraging industries from making stuff here in the U.S.
We could be buying stuff made in Japan and South Korea, and Taiwan, but even those industries are beholden to China too often.
This will take decades to fix.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I see how this works: it's too hard to do what's right, so let's not bother to try. And: they were doing it anyway, so why should we have to give up cheap goods?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
It seems to me that when China has some of the best developed infrastructure in the world, it really can't be considered a developing country any more. It is developed. Sure, maybe not all areas of China are fully developed, but you could state the same thing about any country, including the US.
The opposite of a developing nation, like China, is not developed, as in film, but a decaying nation, like the USA.
Once China has a couple unmaintained bridge collapses, maybe a few regional power failures, some abandoned cities like Detroit, then they will no longer be a developing nation.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
If you look at China's achievements, they are mainly construction achievements. They build massive skyscrapers (Shanghai for example, already has a 100 story building, and is in the middle of constructing a 128 story one). Any Chinese citizen living in a major city in China will brag about their city's skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, subways, railways, etc. And, having visited a lot of those cities, I will admit they are really impressive.
./. wouldn't do.
The primary reason for this though, is that China is taking the massive amount of money flowing into the country and they're choosing to spend it on improving the economy through public works projects. Building skyscrapers, subways, etc. require lots of unskilled manpower, something that China has in abundance. Any problem, like digging a hole, laying pipe, or other manual labor tasks, that can be accomplished in greater scale by simply throwing raw manpower at it.... well, China is unsurpassed in its ability to throw raw manpower at something.
Why can infrastructure like this not be built in the U.S.? Because we don't have 300 million unskilled laborers who will work their ass off for a few bucks a day. We don't have a government that has the authority to just displace hundreds of people in order to build a subway station without going through a lot of red tape. In order to keep up with China in this area, we'd have to give up a lot of the values we treasure for the sake of progress, which is something most of us here on
You can like or hate the policies in China all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that their massive overpopulation of unskilled labor is getting employed and their infrastructure is developing extremely fast.
Overrated Moderation: This posts sucks... because.
Don't kid yourself. People used to say the same thing about Japan.
Let's subsidize rail transport at the same rate we subsidize road and air transport, and then we can compare reliability figures.
NJ is probably a poor example, since we have the highest road density in the country, but we spend BILLIONS annually on road transport, and less than 1% of that on rail transport (though the building of the new tunnel across the Hudson will bridge some of the funding gap, pardon the pun).
And as for rental cars, public transportation at airports... that is easily solvable. You can run light rail from the high-speed rail stations to the airports (which would make a lot of sense anyway, to connect all your transport systems). You can even place your high-speed rail station adjacent to your airports.
Poor example. The Acela is not a high-speed train (maybe in comparison to regular commuter rail service -- but nothing like what is possible if we were willing to build the infrastructure -- a real high-speed train from NY to Boston would be about 60 minutes tops). And NY-to-Boston is not a 90-min trip time via plane (how long to get to the airport instead of getting to Penn Station via mass transit? Do you still plan on arriving only 30 mins before departure time? Good luck in today's airports... 30 mins is almost never enough time when flying out of any of NYC's three major airports.
I don't know why you use old examples for flight times, and examples of existing rail (instead of the high-speed rail being discussed) to make your anecdotal analysis. But I think your blanket negativity on rail transport needs a good looking-over... you might be surprised.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
The trouble is a project of that size usually requires some level of state/federal organisation or funding to secure the necessary investment from private funding and the power to buy the land. Which in the USA seems to cause foaming at the mouth and long rants about the evils of communism.
(I'm assuming here a new high speed railway would require a new less bendy track than already exists)
That's a crock. Those nations are "criminal" nations because we do not do business with them. It's intellectually easy to paint those nations as criminals and enemies, when we have contributed to their situation. You think they'd view America as an enemy if we weren't busy fucking around with their governments over the past 50-60+ years?
If you want to gripe about a nation, at least have your GD definitions right. What you consider a "criminal" nation is not fact, it is your opinion (that lacks substantiation). What laws are those nations violating that make them criminals? What crime have they committed and been convicted of? By many countries' standards, the US is a "criminal" nation... hell, we imprison far more of our citizens than anyone else, for something that is not a crime in some countries.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
I'm not saying 'give up'. Far from it. Do something productive:
- Re-establish onshore manufacturing. As in stop penalizing offshoring with tax, immigration, and other policies.
- Educate ourselves. A local newspaper ad claims that in Arizona, if you eat at a chain restaraunt, $17 of every $100 of your bill stays in the local economy, while if you eat at a locally-owned restaraunt, $47 of every $100 stays. I dunno or care about the exact numbers. Buying goods made in foreign countries can't be as productive or profitable to our economy as buying them made here. And yet, I wonder how that works with automobiles....
- Change the attitude. Maybe we can't make crap in the U.S. that is competitively priced with foreign crap. Ok, at least lets focus on the right products. Perhaps flat-panel displays, consumer electronics, and clothing?
- Also, understand the reality (point 2 revisited). Why do Nike etc. assemble sneakers in Vietnam? Besides cheap labor, they avoid problems with regulatory agencies regarding working conditions such as hours, lighting, pollution. Just the adhesives used are often either banned or conditions controlled so that it is much cheaper to manufacture overseas and avoid the protections. How can we convince Vietnam to raise their standards so that we can effectively take back that business? Not likely. So perhaps we need to work with manufacturers to create products and processes that are economically viable in the U.S. Or deal with it and see if a sneaker maker exists in the U.S. And one does. New Balance.
It is hard to find stuff NOT made in China. I hate buying shoes, because no matter the brand, they all seem to be made in China. I treasure the shirts I have made in India, Bangladesh, even Brunei, though of course some of these countries are not models of freedom and tolerance. But lately, anything but China has been my goal. It's been a while since I coudl find any made in the U.S., even Brazil or Puerto Rico, where the plants in my former home state went to. It ain't easy.
But give up? Nope.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
The decision flew in the face of the takings clause of the 5th amendment.
Not only that, it flew in the face of the purpose of government in the first place, which is to secure our life, liberty, and property. By acting as the agent of the thieves, the local government in New London violated the homeowner's rights, and by permitting them to do it, the Supreme Court of the United States added one example to their list of failures to uphold their duty.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
No you cannot. For example in Western-Europe especially in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland or Austria the countries are very well "developed". In Germany you can get to a highway (Autobahn) in a 50 km radius. Also most towns are accessible by train. And every big city is connected to others on an hourly schedule (with fast trains) and additional local trains.
I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but if that's the study that was quoted in the WSJ, it was definitely lacking. It was comparing the environmental cost of building rail tracks plus fuel consumption of the trains, but only the fuel consumption of the planes but not the environmental cost of building the airports -- and those things take up a LOT of space, esp. if you take into account the amount of real estate that gets depreciated because of the noise.
In any case, you can power trains by nuclear power, but also wind mills or solar -- can't do that with planes. Also trains can do regenerative breaking, and inject back power when decelerating.