Is OpenOffice.org a Threat? Microsoft Thinks So

I use it because... by misfit815 · 2009-12-30 01:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

...its GUI is more like Microsoft Office pre-2007 than Microsoft Office 2007 is, and I have never gotten used to the 2007 interface.

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Re:I use it because... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-12-30 01:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

My 5 year old niece uses W2007, how hard can it be? Personally I hate all them GUIs, never got the point, only editor I need is nano or a good old typewriter.
Re:I use it because... by DrXym · 2009-12-30 01:42 · Score: 2, Informative

...its GUI is more like Microsoft Office pre-2007 than Microsoft Office 2007 is, and I have never gotten used to the 2007 interface.
Ooo has an incredibly ugly UI and some glaring usability issues. I think it would win many more converts if it focused on usability for its next release even if it never added a single new feature. Drag the UI kicking and screaming into the 21st century and smooth some of the rough edges in the process. From my own experience, I tolerate the UI simply because the suite is free and has some excellent functionality like Print to PDF built-in, but I reckon tasks like creating tables, document outline mode and diagrams take me a good 2-3x as long as they do than in MS Word.
Re:I use it because... by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · 2009-12-30 01:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

It can be surprisingly difficult. I'm wondering a few things though: does you 5 year old niece use sections, macros, table of contents, or any advanced aspect to Word? I doubt it somehow, which suggests to me that they don't use advanced features.

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Re:I use it because... by selven · 2009-12-30 01:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

99% of people couldn't care less for the advanced features in anything.
Re:I use it because... by JamesTRexx · 2009-12-30 01:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

I prefer having a text menu over that ribbon style as well.
Because I had to support so many different programs I can't develop a memory for all the different shiny icons there are. A few of them are alike, but most are just too different for me to know what's what in any program. So, with simple text menus I can just read and find what I need faster. Icons hold no meaning to me.

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Re:I use it because... by rtaylor · 2009-12-30 02:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

99% of people want 1 advanced feature in their word processor. Thing is, they all want a different advanced feature which the other 98% will consider unnecessary.

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Re:I use it because... by asdf7890 · 2009-12-30 02:12 · Score: 2, Informative

My 5 year old niece uses W2007, how hard can it be?
This comment you are replying to is not how hard it is, especially not to a newcomer as you niece, but about familiarity.
One of the key arguments against MS Office alternatives prior to Office2007 was the inconvenience, and possible financial costs, of retraining for people already familiar with Office. It wasn't that the alternatives were harder to use (Office was no paragon of truly intuitive design and neither were the alternatives so the difference in that respect was a close to naught as makes not odds), it was that they were different. Pro MS commenters quietly dropped the argument shortly before Office 2007 arrived and the same argument is now being landed on the newer MS products by promoters of alternatives.
I've not used Office 2007 enough to form a definite opinion though I suspect I won't particularly care either way - if it does the job without being too irritating I'll use what-ever tool I have available. I use Office 2003 those few times I need such a thing at work (I'm a developer/DBa/SysAdmin at a small company so have little time to use office applications even when I would want to (documentation and test plans usually falling to someone else with some guidance and later editing from myself and others in my position, and documentation intended for users and/or trainers is definitely better prepared by people not like me) and OO.o for personal stuff (both on my main home PC and netbook). I have encountered Office 2007 at work, but only briefly. I know people who do use it regularly though and their opinions range from love to hate covering everything between, and there seems to be little correlation (after the initial training/retraining period) between the sort of person (in terms of their overall techie-ness and level of previous experience with such applications) and which end of the spectrum they sit closet to - so I suspect that in the long run it simply comes down to difficult-to-objetify personal preference.
Re:I use it because... by selven · 2009-12-30 02:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

And that's why we have extensions. Putting everything in at the start just creates bloat.
Re:I use it because... by DrXym · 2009-12-30 02:19 · Score: 5, Informative

I frequently hear the "print-to-pdf" feature touted as a major advantageous feature of Ooo - but with the wide availability of pdf 'printer' programs I don't see this as a feature at all. A separately installed pdf-printer program is available to all other programs (print to pdf from esoteric scientific program, notepad, browser, whatever) instead of tying the feature into Ooo itself. In fact, this seems contrary to the mentality of most programming (and by extension, to the open source movement) logics - aren't we supposed to want a single copy of code that can be called by any program, rather than code living in a walled garden that is replicated in each program?
I'm aware of PDF printers and I use them, but none of them are as simple to use. The one built into OpenOffice works with a single click a button, and a file dialog. That's it. Most PDF drivers lead you through 2 or 3 dialogs and fail to pick up the document metadata or hinting stuff like column flow because they're being called as if they're printers. The Impress app also exports presentations as Shockwave Flash files which is also a similarly excellent feature. It would be great if Ooo exported into more formats, things like EPUB for example.
It certainly doesn't stop you adding a PDF printer driver (such as PDFCreator on Win32) and using it from other apps though.
Re:I use it because... by frangalista · 2009-12-30 02:25 · Score: 2, Informative

The one drawback that I see for a PDF printer driver is that it cannot preserve hyperlinks within the document. The reason for this is that the printer driver has to implement the GDI interface which is all about drawing shapes and knows nothing about what those shapes represent. So, while the driver may faithfully represent the content of the document, it loses much with respect to meta content such as hyperlinks. The intrinisic converter does not suffer from this because it is rendering the PDF directly from the document. Properly executed, this should always produce a more satisfying effect.
Re:I use it because... by mcgrew · 2009-12-30 02:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Luckily for me, my company is still using MS Office 2003. I really don't have any need for office software on my home PC, but if the need arises I'll surely go OO.
I do think Excel is the best spreadsheet out there, certainly the best of the three I deal with at work The other two are Quattro and Lotus, which makes it pretty easy for Excel to excel in the spreadsheet wars. Lotus wants to take over your whole computer like some damned virus. It's the most "in your face" spreadsheet I've ever used, and getting rid of all the crap it puts on startup was a pain, especially since I only use it about four times a year. Quattro is just plain broken; "print" a graph in PDF and it cuts most of the page off. It's no threat to Excel, either.
The one thing I really hate about MS Office is MS Access, but that's probably because I'd used dBase, FoxPro and Clipper on the PC, and Nomad on the mainframe for years. Both those languages are human-readable and I can do about anything in them, but I haven't had many dealings with the mainframe in years. Clipper and dBase have been dead for years, and since MS bought out Foxpro it's gotten steadily less user-friendly with each "upgrade". I gave up on it with the last upgrade.
Having a GUI like MS office might have some advantages, but there are disadvantages, too, if you don't like the way MS programs interface with the user (which I don't).

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Re:I use it because... by sznupi · 2009-12-30 02:45 · Score: 2, Informative

One? From what I can see it's usually more like zero advanced features. Choosing font/etc. while typing, exclusively using Enter and Space for formatting, sometimes Tab; getting lost with punctuations, never even heard of styles - that's the usual state of Word proficiency (and those people put familiarity with it into their CV...)
Something between Wordpad and Abiword is enough for them.

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Re:I use it because... by quantumplacet · 2009-12-30 02:56 · Score: 3, Informative

Not really gonna weigh in either way here, but Office 2007 has a free plugin from Microsoft that lets you print to PDF and it does preserve links.
Re:I use it because... by Blakey+Rat · 2009-12-30 02:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

And that plug-in would have been shipped as a feature, except for Adobe's teeth gnashing and threatening of lawsuits.
Here's a pro-tip: PDF is only an open format if you're too small a company to effectively compete with Adobe.

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Re:I use it because... by dimeglio · 2009-12-30 03:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

The real evil here is not the features of MS Office but how it becomes integrated with third party applications. There are a number of "gold" or "platinum" Microsoft partners providing integration with business systems who will not support anything but MS products as they fear reprimend from MS should they support a product from "the enemy." I think MS should have been split a long time ago.

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Re:I use it because... by ottothecow · 2009-12-30 03:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

Also, don't forget that once you get into using the most "advanced" features of office, there may not be an equivalent in OpenOffice.
OO has no trouble with the sort of documents that a 5 year old would use, but it gets wonky with really complicated stuff that was originally made in Excel (and sometimes powerpoint documents just turn into a clusterfuck).
I like office 2007 though...I'm still not convinced that the ribbon was a great idea (though some of the new keyboard shortcuts aren't so bad) but the new and improved features FAR outweigh the minor annoyance of learning a new interface. This applies more to excel though...I can't think of any astounding changes made to word--openoffice writer has always been fine for me though...unlike calc

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Re:I use it because... by sh00z · 2009-12-30 03:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seriously. You could learn and master the Office 2007 interface in less time than it takes to find, download, and install OpenOffice. That's the lamest excuse ever.
I call BS on this one. I've been using Office 2007 for a month, and I still can't "master" the changes from 2003. Let's see--which Word ribbon has the "Print Preview" function? Is it View, Review, or possibly Page Layout? Nope, none of the above. You have to go to the Circle Icon (whatever that's called), select "Print," and then get Print Preview from a submenu. Excel won't let me create a Pivot Table in this workbook. The icon is grayed out, and all of the other commands result in no response. would it have been SOOO difficult to implement a mouseover balloon to say "this feature is disabled because the workbook is Shared?"
"Vastly superior" UI is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder sees that the Emperor is nekkid.
Re:I use it because... by stewbacca · 2009-12-30 05:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Flamebait? Really? You make an excellent point. I've tried Open Office and it isn't good enough to be worth the hassle. It's actually easier to find an Office torrent than it is to install a legit version of Open Office (or at least it was 2 years ago).
I'm a "Mac guy" and a usability expert (or at least that's how I make my paycheck), and as much as Microsoft misses the mark on good UI, Office2007 is no worse than previous attempts. There are actually usability improvements (albeit ones that stem from previous Microsoft-ian user interface elements..as long as you are familiar with the "microsoft way", the 2007 improvements are good).
I've tried several times to find an OSX version of GIMP that only requires a single installer (that actually works). I'd like to give it a try, but unless I can download an installer and double click it and be good-to-go, it's not worth my time, no matter how free or good it is.
Re:I use it because... by stewbacca · 2009-12-30 05:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's because you are trying to learn 2007 using your knowledge from 2003. If you try to learn 2007 as if you'd never known a Microsoft interface before, you'd be surprised at how easy it is. You are bringing a decade of bad UI experience into your expectations, which is skewing your opinion of 2007.
Re:I use it because... by LWATCDR · 2009-12-30 06:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

And how many people really need a word processor any more?
People in school and those that write reports at work do and authors as well but that is getting to be a smaller and smaller group all the time. Most business communication has moved to emails as has most personal communication. When is the last time you wrote a letter?
I would be willing to bet that Office 2000 and OpenOffice both meet the needs of 99% of the users out there. Yes I know that everybody till uses a word processor but I have to wonder for how long? I also how long it will be before people decided that free does enough and move to OO.org or even GoogleDocs.
That is what Microsoft fears. We are really reaching a point where everything is good enough and good enough and free beats good enough and expensive.

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Re:I use it because... by Tablizer · 2009-12-30 06:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

If an app has too many options, in my opinion they should "googlify" their menu system such that one can type in words or partial words in a search box and get a list of feature options that match. Menu trees and tool-bars have outlived their usefulness, at least as the sole interface. Have an internal table of the options along with synonyms etc. rather than hard-code them to menus in order to make searching easier. If OOO did this, it would be easier for different UI techniques to be explored.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:I use it because... by man_of_mr_e · 2009-12-30 07:10 · Score: 2, Funny

I find it very odd that you haven't made the connection that the round circle is the same as the File menu in old Office versions. All the same functions. How have you not made that simple connection?
And how is it not logical that Print Preview wouldn't be a part of print? You act like this is nonsense. The old method was nonsense.
And your Excel comment doesn't make sense because Excel 2003 didn't do that either.

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Re:I use it because... by glarbl_blarbl · 2009-12-30 08:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Indeed, I knew when I was in third grade and being hounded about my penmanship to the point that I never wanted to write another word that content is the most important thing about communication. Form is constantly mutable while the thoughts themselves are constant. It's the same song whether it's sung by Soundgarden or Johnny Cash, Stevie Wonder or The Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Not to mention the fact that I can type at a much closer rate to my train of thought than I can and still maintain legible handwriting. Now the only time I need to write by hand is when I wake up in the middle of the night with an idea, because if I'm the only one who needs to read it then it scrawls itself across the paper encrypted by the hand of glarbl_blarbl.

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Re:I use it because... by Hurricane78 · 2009-12-30 08:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

That’s because it’s a half-assed solution, that sits between two already crappy starting points: text menus, and icon bars.
That mouse-controlled icon bars are stupid, in a text processor, should be totally obvious, so I’m not commenting on them.
And menus are bad, because they are very limited, simple UI elements. No multiple choice, no parameters, no nothing. For that they use modal dialogs. Which are just plainly idiotic.
The idea of the ribbon came from the more than a decade old InfoBox in Lotus products, that you got in e.g. WordPro (part of SmartSuite).
But other than the InfoBox, the ribbon still is more of a icon bar than anything else. It still lacks big parts of the functionality. There still in no separation between object properties and wizards. No way to choose the parent object to apply things to it. It’s just a big piece of half-assed failure.
And even the InfoBox still was relatively bad, since there was little you could do with it, without using the mouse.
A good UI does not have to limit itself to text. But it should also never go for colorful clickables where you have to guess what they mean. (I fully expect an MS PHB go “But we’re excluding the part of our target group, who can’t [even fuckin’] read!” ^^)
Sorry, I can’t list all the changes I would make to that UI to make it as good as I can. Because that would be so much, that I rather just scrap it all and start over from scratch.

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My guess.... by bleh-of-the-huns · 2009-12-30 01:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Is that while it currently is no threat, they are preparing for the future. Whether or not the threat actually does arise or not is irrelevant, as MS has the money to throw at this minor inconvenience, to attempt to stop it before it becomes a major threat.

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Re:My guess.... by John+Hasler · 2009-12-30 01:30 · Score: 2, Funny

Microsoft didn't get where they are by throwing money around just because they have it.

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This must be a big joke by bogaboga · 2009-12-30 01:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

OpenOffice.org is a threat? I do not think so and here's why:

1: It looks aged compared to its counterpart from Microsoft

2: Still takes a while to load and looks ugly!

3: It's not as featured as Microsoft Office. Those who profess that the 80%/20% rule is what
matters do not have a clue on how human beings behave.

4: Most educational institutions and workplaces still accept Microsoft Office as the "default"
office suite...even for editing simple documents.

5: Its development is just too slow! Compare that with Google's Android. If OpenOffice
development was at just half the speed of Android, things would be different.

Re:This must be a big joke by Bazman · 2009-12-30 01:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

Rebuttals:
1. And Microsoft Office looks aged compared to anything I've seen on CSI. I'm not sure I want my office software looking like something I've seen on CSI, so being aged isn't a bad thing. Oh, and get off my lawn.
2. It takes a while to load because Office has probably already pre-loaded most of itself and just pops up a main window when you open a document. Ever wonder why Windows is so slow to boot?
3. Yeah, I wish I could do python scripting in Open Office, or save straight to PDF from my OpenOffice Writer, or create equations with LaTeX in my OpenOffice Impress presentations. Oh wait...
4. Educational Institutions are normally the first to try new things, since they have a higher proportion of geeks in the place. There's also well documented cases of local governments switching to OO.org and Linux. And some switching back after getting sweeteners from MS, but that's the point of the original article. MS sees a threat.
5. What do you want it to develop into ffs? Emacs?
Re:This must be a big joke by selven · 2009-12-30 01:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's not a threat to the advanced Office user market, but it is a threat to Microsoft's dominance in the "I want to send a recipe to my friends" type casual users. There's room for both, just like Paint is not a threat to Photoshop but Photoshop is not a threat to Paint.
Re:This must be a big joke by Bert64 · 2009-12-30 02:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

1, many MS customers are still using old versions which by definition *are* aged...
2, looks are not terrible important, and load time less so... in the win9x days when you had to reboot constantly and reload all your apps it mattered a lot, these days people will leave it running all day.
3, it has a slightly different feature set and in some ways is more featured than the ms offering, that said many customers use old versions of ms and most only use a small subset...
Remember that when MS took over from wordperfect, it was MS who had the inferior product considered a joke by any serious users of wordperfect...
Traditionally, using OOo has been considered detrimental because of the prevalence of proprietary ms formats, but this is gradually changing.. And despite the best efforts of MS the world is moving towards more open data formats which makes alternatives to ms seem less risky.
At the same time, the economy isn't doing so well and companies are looking for ways to cut costs... For many of those companies, IT is a cost and not part of their core business so faced with the choice between several "adequate" products may well go with the cheapest.
The best product rarely wins, as MS have proved time and time again... It is usually the cheapest or best marketed product which wins. The people making decisions are rarely even qualified to judge which product is best, they will merely choose and expect everyone else to put up with it.
Staff at such companies will complain whatever you do, but ultimately their complaints will get ignored anyway.

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Re:This must be a big joke by thetoadwarrior · 2009-12-30 02:33 · Score: 2, Informative

OO has a Windows option to preload some bits. The difference is it mentions this and asks you if you want to do it where as MS Office just shoves some bit into your startup folder.
Re:This must be a big joke by vcgodinich · 2009-12-30 04:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

I have 8 gigs of RAM. it didn't cost alot. If windows / Office can figure out that i use Word / Excel / Outlook all the time and pre-load everything, great. It lets me work faster.
Sorry to tell you, the days of memory conservation are dead, programs should be USING the gigs of ram you have, not letting them sit idle and making you wait 30 secs or a word processor to open.
Re:This must be a big joke by mjwx · 2009-12-30 15:06 · Score: 2, Informative

OpenOffice.org is a threat? I do not think so and here's why:

1: It looks aged compared to its counterpart from Microsoft

2: Still takes a while to load and looks ugly!

3: It's not as featured as Microsoft Office. Those who profess that the 80%/20% rule is what matters do not have a clue on how human beings behave.

4: Most educational institutions and workplaces still accept Microsoft Office as the "default" office suite...even for editing simple documents.

5: Its development is just too slow! Compare that with Google's Android. If OpenOffice development was at just half the speed of Android, things would be different.

All this is rendered useless by the real reason, people are finding it easier to put up with OO.o's inconsistencies with MS Office then they are to pirate MS office. Plain and simple.

Most people don't care about looks, most people already think MS office is as slow, 90% people know how to use less then 10% of the features in MS office. The vast majority of people just want to be able to open a document or spreadsheet, make a few changes and save it. Maybe they'll bold the headline or use a few basic math functions E.G (=C9-(D12*E12)) but that's it. The harder and slower MS makes pirating office the more appealing OO.o becomes. Most people I know have already switched to it at home as it does everything they need at home.

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Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by Anonymous Coward · 2009-12-30 01:31 · Score: 2, Informative

Odd... I use OO to manage over 1,000,000 items for an online retail business, and the majority are stored in csv files. Works fine for me.

Flip Flop by rtb61 · 2009-12-30 01:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

The problem is they continually flip flop, one week they are seeking open source interaction and the next week they are attacking it and it's supporters. It all seems to be driven by nothing more than the current marketing image they wish to present. Although it does seem that M$ leans more to open source when they get screwed over by some patent dispute.

Really for them to put a foot forward they actually need to release their own branded version of a recognised open source software package and adhere to the requirements of the licence, even should their version substantially vary and they choose to host and make it available.

So what will it be, VLC, Firefox or maybe something Ruby. I think OpenOffice,org or a Linux distribution is way, way to far a stretch for them, they just lack that kind of mental flexibility and out of the box thinking.

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Protect the Cash Cows by hodet · 2009-12-30 01:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

Of course, these two products compete directly with their two big cash cows. OO may not seriously compete today, but these things change and Microsoft can't get complacent. Is it any surprise that they would take any competitors seriously? I think they are smart enough to know that both Linux and OO are strong products and you really only need a few leaders out there to use these things successfully before others start slowly migrating these products into their environments, and what was once guaranteed profits start to trickle away slowly. Even if companies target areas to use these free products in less critical areas this hurts them. I know in our organization we could easily replace some of our 1500 servers with Linux where right now no matter how light the load or low priority the system is we dump W2K3 or 8 on it. We couldn't do it on all, but easily on some and nobody would even notice. The only thing that stops it is fear of the unknown.

Re:Protect the Cash Cows by cptnapalm · 2009-12-30 05:29 · Score: 4, Interesting

This reminds me of a story I think I saw here years ago.
Guy is told that they will be moving over to MS Exchange (this would have been in '97 or so). So he does his job and sets up Exchange. World goes to hell. E-Mail doesn't work several times a day, server crashes routinely, etc. His boss and users are on his ass constantly. It all becomes too much for the guy, who was told to do this over his own objections.
Monday morning, e-mail is working fine. It is all smooth sailing. Boss and users are happy. Management is content with their savvy in buying Exchange. A year or something later, the guy quits but not before leaving up to date documentation for the new guy.
First page of the documentation welcomes the replacement and says not to worry, everything he needs to know is in this folder. There are two sections: 1) What is official policy 2) What we actually do. The official policy is that we run Exchange for e-mail and here is the stuff to tell the boss about Exchange if there are ever problems. The actual policy is that we run Debian and postfix, since Exchange was a disaster, and here is how to do maintenance; tell no one except whoever replaces you.

This is how it's done... by MikeRT · 2009-12-30 01:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

which suggests that Microsoft's new-found eagerness to 'engage' with open source has nothing to do with a real desire to reach a pacific accommodation with free software, but is simply a way for Microsoft to fight against it from close up, and armed with inside knowledge.

Would it be any different if WHOEVER_MAKES_WORDPERFECT_RIGHT_NOW did this too? Microsoft is not going to reach an "accommodation" with anyone trying to directly steal their business from them anymore than Apple is going to reach an accord with clone vendors, Japanese car companies are going to wink and nod at Chinese manufacturers trying to import cheap cars that use their designs into the US and Japan or any other scenario where an incumbent would "just welcome" competitors.

Be glad that Microsoft wants to fight in the marketplace first and foremost. 10-15 years ago, if you suggested that Microsoft would fight more or less above board rather than letting slip the dogs of war and running a scorched Earth campaign, you'd have been called a fanboi.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by suso · 2009-12-30 01:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

Firefox doesn't already know that CSV should be tied to OO? Shouldn't that have occurred at install time by OO? No, ok, I'll set it up--done.

In OO's defense, It seems that most of the time, CSV is not associated with any app, which is probably a good thing because CSV doesn't always imply "spreadsheet". True, some people want their computer to make all their decisions about which app to use for what. But those people usually also end up with a boatload of adbars in their browser and spyware and viruses on their harddrives. And they wonder why their computer doesn't work.

"Won't that be grand, the computers will start thinking and the people will stop." - Walter, from Tron (1982)

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by hilather · 2009-12-30 01:38 · Score: 2, Funny

You're hired.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by MathFox · 2009-12-30 01:41 · Score: 2, Informative

I have a program that generates CSV output, for import into a spreadsheet. Open Office Calc creates the sheet I expect (slowly but correct). However, Excel sees it fit to mess op the data; it arbitrarily breaks long lines mid-field, creating a mess that requires more time to clean up than waiting for OOo to import correctly.

N.B. OOo suffices for most of my business correspondence; I prefer (La)TeX/LyX for the more scientific documents.

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extern warranty;
main()
{
(void)warranty;
}

I think MS has lost the battle already... by jkrise · 2009-12-30 01:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've been in IT for over 20 years now; and until 7 years ago, Office was my mostly used application. Nowadays though I hardly ever use Word or Excel, I've used Powerpoint more often though. At a hospital I consult; we changed to OOo and after changing the default save format option to the corresponding Office equivalents; the users hardly noticed the difference.

These days the only application used in offices is the browser, and Firefox has already won the battle and the war on that front.

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Duh, of course by ewe2 · 2009-12-30 01:43 · Score: 2, Informative

Check the tables at the end of this Comes exhibit, its Linux/OO (when it was still StarOffice) in every region. Because the target is future developers and government contracts, obviously.

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They should be scared by bignetbuy · 2009-12-30 01:43 · Score: 5, Informative

For years, Microsoft has raked in money with Office. It's been THE leading revenue generator for ages with $4.4 billion in 3Q 2009. Office and related business products bring in more money than their Server/OS division. However, that number is trending down to the tune of almost 500 million from the same time last year.

Maybe it's just the recession. Maybe it was the Vista impact. However, the decline is noticeable.

Source: MS Annual Reports and Earnings Releases

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by Anonymous Coward · 2009-12-30 01:45 · Score: 2, Funny

Fucking up CSV files -- that sounds like they've duplicated Office functionality exactly. What else do you want?

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by wisnoskij · 2009-12-30 01:47 · Score: 5, Interesting

"Takes a long fucking time to open OO. I mean a LONG time."
unless you compare it to the full Microsoft office on the same machine it is not really a fair comparison.

"I select all the fields and go to resize them all with a single click but--nothing happens. WTF? I try again. Nothing. I look on the menu bar quickly--nothing. WTF?"
OO does not duplicate all the functionality and gui of MS Office, it is a slight learning experience as it is a different product. But i for one have had more "wow, this such a better and more intuitive way of doing things" then "where have they put that" moments using OO.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

OO is a work-alike-mostly-sorta to MS Office... by kclittle · 2009-12-30 01:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

I have OpenOffice installed on my main PC (XP64), because I don't need much more than the ability to open docs sent to me or that I download. Works fine for what I ask it to do.

But, my wife, who is an MS Office expert, can't stand it. It is just too limited and clunky compared to Office, she says. So, for her PC, I fork out the $$ and buy Office. Oh, and MS Office is on our shared MacBook.

For the "serious user" market, OO is not currently a threat to MS Office. But for the casual, "use it once in awhile" market, it is. Now, given Microsoft's history of competing against incumbent, entrenched players by targeting the bottom end of a market and improving over time with increasingly competitive but still cheaper technology, they are probably very sensitive to seeing OO become the easy choice for the entry-level user.

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Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by syousef · 2009-12-30 01:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

You installed OO on a machine that wouldn't even run Office, then complained about start up times. You then played with the software for 5 minutes. It didn't do what you wanted. You didn't find a menu item and you moved on probably without even consulting documentation or Googling. It's possible that OO is lacking the functionality you wanted to use. Who knows. You didn't bother to find out, so why should I. Regardless, I'd say the problem is behind the keyboard in this case.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer

The suitability of OO depends on target audience by gregarican · 2009-12-30 01:51 · Score: 2, Informative

I've recommended OO for a fair amount of home users who are casual users of office productivity software. For those folks it's _okay_ and fits their needs. Albeit the OO suite isn't lickety-split fast in terms of launch and whatnot for "Joe Six Pack" you can't beat free for someone who's looking to type up a quick letter, create a quick budget spreadsheet, or whip up a simple school presentation.

That being said, I've also tried implementing OO for my business users, in cases where their new PC's didn't come pre-loaded with Microsoft Office. I would preface their introduction to OO by mentioning that most of the familar menu commands and navigational elements were practically identical. A few weeks later I had no choice but to ante up and purchase full versions of Microsoft Office. Power users in a business environment required elements outside the scope of "Joe Six Pack." Anything from VBA to macros to other features weren't available or else didn't work as expected. And yeah, having budgeted expense goals had me wanting to purchase more Microsoft Office licenses like I'd want a hole in the head. :-/

And I know there are navigational and feature issues upgrading users from Office 2003 to 2007. I know with a mixed version environment opening documents is a PITA, and saving documents can result in formatting FUBAR's. Frankly I am dreading when I myself have to make the jump. That is almost as daunting as trying to migrate my power users at work to OO. Still all things taken equal it apparently will be awhile until OO is really an equal competitor, although it's closer than it was back in the days with Sun's Staroffice 5.x and whatnot.

Perhaps Microsoft is just keeping OO in its rearview mirror to protect its interests. Although the hints of Microsoft's covert infiltration into FOSS circles (while supposedly doing so for collaborative purposes) reeks of insidiousness. Now the cat's out of the bag I wonder how many FOSS projects will welcome them?

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by Lord+Lode · 2009-12-30 01:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

I didn't read your entire post, but, MS Office can't properly handle CSV either. If you have an internationalized Windows and in the language settings of WINDOWS (not of office or anything!!), you have somewhere ";" instead of "," as "separator", then MS Excel can't read a CSV that uses "," anymore! It's called COMMA separated list, and yet excel can't read it and uses your localized settings, so that people with a computer of a different language can't even exchange such files with each other!

Come on, it's called CSV, why doesn't MS Office always use comma's then.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. by mdm-adph · 2009-12-30 02:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sounds pretty normal for Microsoft.

I use IBM's Lotus Symphony package, myself. Good support, and it "looks" far better than OpenOffice (which sometimes makes all the difference when you're trying to convince someone to use it. That, and it's got native Mac, PC, and Ubuntu versions.

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It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed

Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. by Eclipse-now · 2009-12-30 15:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

Where does Symphony sit in comparison to OpenOffice? How many big corporations use it, what kind of backing and user adoption does it have, what are the numbers, advantages over OO, or will LS come to dominate the open source world?

Re:duohce boag by Chapter80 · 2009-12-30 02:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Agreed.

I understand the desire of many slashdotters to have Free software.
I don't understand the desire of many slashdotters to see For Profit software companies fail. (or to point out with fear or mockery that they are trying to make money).

Can't we all just get along?

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by garcia · 2009-12-30 02:04 · Score: 2

Can't be a very competent review with that kind of language.

I'll keep that in mind for when I write a review of OO for Wired or the New York Times. In the mean time, since this is Slashdot, I'll keep posting exactly like I have for the last 12+ years. Thanks!

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by dangitman · 2009-12-30 02:06 · Score: 2, Funny

Well, right up till sentence 3. You lost me there. Can't be a very competent review with that kind of language.

You dislike the word "functionality," too? I understand where you're coming from, I fucking hate that word.

--
... and then they built the supercollider.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by Anonymous Coward · 2009-12-30 02:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Takes a long fucking time to open OO. I mean a LONG time. It opens, sweet. I select all the fields and go to resize them all with a single click but--nothing happens. WTF? I try again. Nothing. I look on the menu bar quickly--nothing. WTF?

Lameness of your writing aside, that's complete fud. On my 5 year old laptop on a cold start after reboot, OO calc loads in 6 seconds and about 3 after that... that's a LONG time? That is ridiculous.

In addition, selecting multiple columns and resizing by dragging or by double clicking works like a charm, so I'm guessing you are just trying to spread FUD, because you were dumb enough to pay for office.

I've been using open office for years and it does everything I need it to do and then some... You people that think otherwise haven't not really used it, and I feel sorry for you.

our big barrier by MickyTheIdiot · 2009-12-30 02:16 · Score: 3, Informative

I work at a medium size non-profit, and a couple of years ago I tried to get all of us to change to oo.org. I still use it for all my own use instead of ms office but everyone else rebelled and I had to drop it as an idea.

Like I said, it's been a couple of years now, and when we tried it what basically killed the whole thing is its problem doing mail merges. Arguably it had a BETTER interface to databases than any office product, but the problem is that everyone here has no technical inclination except for me and it requires thought. Plus back in version 2 it was buggy and it wouldn't match up formatting correctly. At lot of the research I did at the time pretty much seemed to indicate that the oo.org staff didn't care much about getting mail merges to work and it wasn't much a priority.

Maybe someone here can bring me up to date on any progress in this area. I hope that at some point oo.org can provide a really simple mail merge "wizard" (I hate that term) that works with spreadsheets that the plebeians can understand along with a database interface that can give programs like Crystal Reports a run for its money...

Re:duohce boag by inode_buddha · 2009-12-30 02:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Can't we all just get along?"

It would be nice, but most of the For Profit software companies don't seem interested in getting along. They're competing.

As for myself, I don't think Linux needs world domination on the desktop, it does need interoperability though. Because interoperability (through truly open standards) is what gives people choice. That said, I would be happy with 20-30% Linux and/or Ooo on the desktop.

By "truly open standards, I don't mean the OOXML farce that was pulled through the ISO. Rather I mean something like the internet RFC's. Royalty-free, unencumbered, fully laid-out specs that anyone can follow.

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C|N>K

Excel doesn't even do CSV correctly... by gbutler69 · 2009-12-30 02:24 · Score: 2, Informative

OO does a better job, but, still not correct. GNUMeric does no better. They all fundamentally do the wrong thing. Here is what they do wrong. Lets say I have the following CSV: Smith,Joe,E,121 Mockingbird Lane,Metropolis,BS,(330)555-1212,0023456789

Now, the last field there is an ID number. The zeroes are significant. All of the above spreadsheets will import that as a number and drop the leading zeroes. FAIL!

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Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.

Re:Excel doesn't even do CSV correctly... by Anomalyst · 2009-12-30 03:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agree, the import is WAD (working as designed). I don't do much with CSV, but I would think that a good database designer anticipating export/import of data would spec'ing an ID field with positional encoding of department or whatever might want to define the field with a non-numeric like a dash so that it will sort, align and print as an x position field and not a left justified number. It is not the programs fault the user is using a hammer to drive a screw.
But on the gripping hand, this is not a unreasonable "Joe Sixpack" expectation, I would imagine it would not be hard to add a check box "Strip leading zeroes on numeric fields" (unchecked by default) which would result in the auto-classification mapping the field to "Text" rather than "Standard" as you suggest.

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There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Re:Excel doesn't even do CSV correctly... by Ken+D · 2009-12-30 03:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

The problem is your data is ambiguous.
To get the behavior you want you should have quotes around text fields, or you need to use a decent program like OO that provides you a dialog when you open this file where you can choose the column data type.
The fact that the programs heuristically "guess" what the field contains based upon its contents will not save you from ambiguous data.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by suso · 2009-12-30 02:26 · Score: 2, Funny

That would be cool. I could be a Google Chrome commercial: "Fanboi for PC, Linux, and Mac."

Pay up GOOG.

Actually, Fanboi runs on all operating systems and even embedded devices.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by syousef · 2009-12-30 02:28 · Score: 2, Informative

1. I gave one specific example so my post wouldn't be 1000 words. I don't have time for that at 8 AM on a work day.

It was nothing but an example of user error.

2. If a piece of software is a "threat" to Microsoft Office, then it better function like people who use Microsoft Office every day expect it to function. Resizing all the cells at once is B A S I C functionality, not some out of the way item that should be buried four levels down in the tree.

I just opened OpenOffice 3.1 Calc, a piece of software I rarely use. I entered some data into the first row, selected all the columns and was able to resise all the columns at once. This is exactly the same thing I would do in Excel. If you just select the cells, it doesn't work. Perhaps you're just use to that working from whatever version of Excel you're using, but it's quite clear to me that you simply didn't try very hard.

3. The general public (and I don't fall into that category) won't even give it as much time as I did.

The general public don't know or care how to resize all the cells at once.

4. As far as PEBKAC, get real.

Dude, you just didn't try to solve your problem. You assumed that an obscure formating trick that works in one Spreadsheet works exactly the same way in another. It's not Open Office Excel. It's Open Office Calc. It took me less than 30 seconds to solve your problem. Mind you I'm running on a Core 2 Duo, not some netbook that can't even run MS Office. This wasn't some weird I'm an Excel user who can count the number of times I've played with Calc on 2 hands, so this is hardly some unintuitive obscure reference I'm telling you to dig up.

Definitely PEBKAC.

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These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer

There are many reasons to acknowledge a threat... by asdf7890 · 2009-12-30 02:29 · Score: 2, Informative

which suggests that Microsoft's new-found eagerness to 'engage' with open source has nothing to do with a real desire to reach a pacific accommodation with free software, but is simply a way for Microsoft to fight against it from close up, and armed with inside knowledge.

There are many reasons to acknowledge a threat, and I'm not sure getting up close and personal is the tree that they are barking up here.

If Microsoft were to go around saying they they had no threats worth considering it would look like they have little competition and bring them under greater scrutiny from a monopoly policing point of view. Also such hubris would look iffy to current and potential inverters - investing in a company that is, or seems to be, resting on its laurels is not a good long-term strategy especially in a market where there are alternatives currently available (whether they are acknowledged by said company or not).

Ignoring the more cynical interpretations above for a moment: knowing the competition is important to any business. Whatever your opinion of the strengths (absolute or relative to other products) of OO.o it is a competitor in that particular market and MS would be foolish not to recognise that and be seen to be appropriately aware of the situation.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by SaDan · 2009-12-30 02:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yeah, it's a threat, whether you think so or not. I manage about 50 workstations, all Macs, and until recently we've been buying Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac with every new workstation. Since OpenOffice 3.1 came out, people are using it more and more, mainly because that's what they are using at home on Linux and Windows workstations. We no longer purchase Microsoft Office for Mac since OpenOffice is becoming the preferred office suite.

There's definitely a shift beginning to happen away from all things Microsoft when it comes to home computers. More and more people are being exposed to alternatives to Microsoft, simply through the products available from Apple, applications in the "cloud", set top appliances for home entertainment, alternative firmwares for things like wifi routers, and yes, even Linux distributions like Ubuntu that have steadily been improving the end-user experience over the past several years. Microsoft is not the end all be all company it once was, people are looking at alternatives, especially if the cost is significantly lower up front.

As much as I'd love to see everyone running Ubuntu and OpenOffice, I realize it's not going to happen overnight. But it is starting to happen in places I would have never expected just a couple years ago. This is the threat Microsoft perceives. If this shift gains momentum, it will begin to significantly impact their bottom line in a matter of years.

As for your experiences with OpenOffice, a couple of changes to Firefox would have it automatically opening .CSV files in a matter of seconds. Long load times? You are on a sub $300 notebook. Go purchase Microsoft Office 2007, or download a beta, and compare the two instead of blindly faulting OpenOffice for poor performance. It's probably the cheap machine at fault here.

In the end, you used TWO competing products to Microsoft Office, for free (minus your time). And you think Microsoft doesn't have anything to worry about? Have you purchased Microsoft Office for the netbook yet?

Why are you hitting yourself misses gnu? by Zero__Kelvin · 2009-12-30 02:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

Your post makes it clear that you don't know what the word "Free" means in a FOSS context. And no, we can't all just get along, which is the whole point. We FOSS developers would love it if Microsoft had a goal of getting along with FOSS software (think standards), but this example is one of thousands that Microsoft will do whatever is in their power to make sure that we can't all just get along. You are doing the equivalent of asking the wife who is getting beaten by her husband why they can't both just get along. It is a phenomonally ignorant question to ask the wife, and it is equally ignorant to blame the FOSS supporter and/or developer.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:Why are you hitting yourself misses gnu? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-12-30 06:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

You are doing the equivalent of asking the wife who is getting beaten by her husband why they can't both just get along. It is a phenomonally ignorant question to ask the wife, and it is equally ignorant to blame the FOSS supporter and/or developer.
Terrible metaphor but we'll run with it.
It is not phenomenally ignorant question to ask the wife. If her man beats her, why not leave? For the sake of this discussion, there are no kids and no house to split. The only reason to stay is because the beaten wife has convinced herself "this is how it should be" or "this is how it always will be" or "this sucks, but it won't be better if I leave".
Too many of the FOSS developers/supporters would rather sit around and explain why their version is copacetic instead of actually creating products people want. Writer is cool, but it can't pass DOC files back and forth with Word without screwing things up. GIMP is cool, but instead of providing a Photoshop-esque interface that would be easier for people to migrate to, they'd rather explain why their interface is better. You can argue all day that "they should use open formats instead of DOC" or "GIMP's interface is actually more intuitive" but you're missing the point: This is the hand you are dealt, you have to play hard to win. Nobody cares about the guy who finishes in the middle of the pack and complains about the cards.

Jesus Christ, do you people listen to yourselves? by Blakey+Rat · 2009-12-30 02:51 · Score: 4, Informative

That summary was the most biased, paranoid rambling that I've ever seen. You might as well followed it up with a paragraph about how Microsoft uses those little plastic strips in $20 bills to track you when you go through airport scanners, so they know whether to equip your plane with chemtrail equipment before redirecting it to land in the secret tunnel between Washington D.C. and Area 51.

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Comment of the year

Get hardware that isn't older than your Slash # by Zero__Kelvin · 2009-12-30 02:51 · Score: 2, Informative

"Firefox doesn't already know that CSV should be tied to OO? "

Firefox knows more than you do. For example it knows that the csv extension should not automatically be tied to OpenOffice, since you may not want to run Open Office just to view a .csv file. Neither Firefox, nor any other software, can save you from your own ignorance. In other words, you're fscked.

"So I got a netbook for my wife for Christmas and the Dell 10v I got for $266 comes with Microsoft Works--which unfortunately does not, well, 'work' all that well."

WTF! Didn't anyone tell it that it is from Microsoft, and it "just works"? I'm curious, does anything work after you get your hands on it?

"Takes a long fucking time to open OO. I mean a LONG time."

It opens in no time for me. Maybe you are using Windows and need to get a real OS? See also this posts subject line.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by patiodragon · 2009-12-30 03:02 · Score: 2, Funny

...I don't have time for that at 8 AM on a work day..

STFU and get back to work!

Re:duohce boag by MightyMartian · 2009-12-30 03:16 · Score: 3, Funny

I don't know. Why don't you ask MS that? This fight wasn't started by the OSS community, which was largely born out of necessity as much as altruism. It's closed-source guys like Microsoft that have been waging this war since the mid-1990s. Maybe you should ask them why they can't just "get along".

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The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

Re:duohce boag by MickyTheIdiot · 2009-12-30 03:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

I agree there are those slashdotters who believe so much in Free software they want the for profits to fail. Not everyone, though.

There are many for profits I hope succeed. I want the bad ones (and there are MANY types of bad companies) to fail. I also want companies to play fairly and not use sticks like "intellectual property" to shut other (usually smaller) businesses and individuals down.

I believe that for applications that many, many people use (OS, Office, web technologies, etc) Free software is the way to go because it is OPEN and it allows everyone to interact. There are many pieces of software that are more limited (like for a small specific industry) that wouldn't get built if it wasn't for For Profit companies because it takes a lot of interest to get an Open Source product off the ground and a big pool of potential users and developers. There has to be motivation somewhere. I think Linux works because of a huge amount of interest and people that need it. I think if you are one of 5 businesses in the world that make a certain type of widget, however, then you are not going to get Open Source to help you on your very specific software need and that's a good fit for a for profit company.

Openoffice has already affected Microsoft. by vakuona · 2009-12-30 03:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

It has struck me how much more affordable Microsoft Office has become over the last few years for home use. A lot of this is no doubt because Openoffice.org is good enough for most people. Soon, Microsoft may be forced to give it away for home use, or sell it for a true pittance, and depend on business sales to make any money from Office. Microsoft's biggest threat on the Office front is that Openoffice.org (or another free office suite) becomes good enough that users don't want to pay extra for something they do not do much more than simple documents and simple spreadsheets with. I wonder why Dell et al are not offering users such an option. Microsoft is also experimenting with ad supported Office to try and counter the free office suites.

Of course... by Junta · 2009-12-30 03:35 · Score: 2, Informative

All spreadsheets feel the need to fubar csv data.

If you have 0002, most assume you mean '2', assuming you must have accidentally put three zeroes in.

If I put in a slot/port number for a wiring chart (i.e. slot 5, port 2 as 5/2), it assumes it must have been a date and tags on the current year (incidentally, even if they *were* correct in guessing it to be a year, how the hell can they assume the date is the current year? Who knows when the CSV was created, this is arbitrarily adding more precision to a value than it originally contained).

Often times, for CSV data, it's best to throw up your hands and use a text editor because spreadsheet apps all try to be 'too smart' about the task.

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr by BitZtream · 2009-12-30 03:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

I develope a plugin that runs in Outlook.

On a daily basis I run Office 2000, XP, 2003, 2007 and 2010.

I don't really care which one you pick, or what kind of machine or what installation options you picked, OO.org takes longer to do pretty much everything.

If you don't realize this, you shouldn't be making comments comparing or contrasting OO.org and MS Office as you've obviously not got the experience to do so.

OO.org doesn't do basic things that the OS controls due out of the box without any changes. Why is it everyone thinks they need to write their own fucking toolkit? USE THE OS CONTROLS! I realize Linux doesn't have any OS provided GUI controls and multiple toolkits. Thats great, good for Linux. But for the rest of the world that wants software that does what they expect rather than to circle jerk each other about how 'free' it is, then it sucks ass.

If your product doesn't memic the basic controls of the OS because you felt you had to go redesign everything yourself, you've not only made a POS software package, you've broken rule number 1 in GUI design, which is to do what the user EXPECTS without requiring 'education' about how to use the product.

For something like an Office product, if your everyday user needs to read a help file or gets confused about the way something works, you fucked up your GUI.

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager

Re:duohce boag by ThePhilips · 2009-12-30 04:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

As for myself, I don't think Linux needs world domination on the desktop, it does need interoperability though.

You do understand that as long as MSFT has a desktop dominance, it would do anything to make sure that there would be no interoperability with any other competing OS?

Because interoperability (through truly open standards) is what gives people choice.

[...] I don't mean the OOXML farce that was pulled through the ISO.

And MSFT many times exemplified that in their opinion a "de facto" standard (they have complete control over like OOXML) is just as good as a "de jure" standard.

That's why as long as MSFT has >50% of market, there would be neither interoperability nor open standards.

--
All hope abandon ye who enter here.

Re:Frist posat by fwarren · 2009-12-30 04:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

Microsoft makes money, so obviously they would use this as a competitive advantage.

The problem is not that Microsoft would compete with OpenOffice. The problem is that Microsoft will unethically leverage its position as Monopoly to destroy OpenOffice. Many commercial companies will ethically compete with each other. As a corporate culture Microsoft does not want to compete in a market. They want to have 90%+ share of a market and will do whatever is necessary to shrink or kill all other competitors. This is not typical nor ethical behavior.

So you want to love those conferences to death. I’ve killed at least two Mac conferences. James Plamondon, Microsoft

Microsoft does not care if its competition is another commercial venture, a non-profit corporation, a hobbyist or a government. If it competes with Microsoft in any market where Microsoft does not hold at least 90% of the market then their goal is to minimize, marginalize and even torpedo, and kill the competition. Without regard for ethical behavior or what means are necessary to do so.

Some would say "Microsoft has changed, the now want to work with the FOSS community." To see if that statement is accurate, or if as a corporate culture they are still up to their old tricks, we need to analyze their motives. In this instance, this would be to analyze their motives in regard to OpenOffice AND to glean from it how seriously they take OpenOffice as a competitor in the market. The fact that they have a position entitled "Linux and Open Office Compete Lead" is an indicator of how serious they are about both Linux and OpenOffice.

Traditionally being in Microsoft's sniper scope has not worked out well for other companies. On the other hand as someone once said:

Q. What's the difference between Batman and Bill Gates?
A. When Batman fought the Penguin, he won.

--
vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.

Re:It's HER incapability, not OOo by BitZtream · 2009-12-30 04:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Right, its her fault that OO.org isn't intuitive and doesn't use existing well established conventions for common things.

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Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager

Re:It's HER incapability, not OOo by Attila+Dimedici · 2009-12-30 05:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Right, its her fault that OO.org isn't intuitive

(meaning it doesn't work exactly like Microsoft Office)

and doesn't use existing well established conventions

(again meaning it doesn't work exactly like MS Office)

for common things.

When Word came out lots of people said it would never get there because it wasn't intuitive (meaning it didn't work like Wordperfect) and didn't use existing well established conventions (again meaning it didn't work like Wordperfect). And for a long time, these things were a barrier to Word taking over from Wordperfect. But times change and now Word is the dominant word processor and Wordperfect is a very minor player in the word processing market (I assume someone still makes a version of Wordperfect).

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The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison

Re:duohce boag by billcopc · 2009-12-30 06:10 · Score: 2, Interesting

There's more than one angle to it, here's a few I can personally relate to:

1. Some of this for-profit software seems outrageously overpriced for its functionality, a position of greed that can only be protected by eliminating all affordable alternatives. This results in hostile takeovers of free-software projects, or abusive litigation to destroy the projects, which rarely have any funding to support a court battle.

2. High quality free software stimulates innovation, in both the free and for-profit realms, and the pursuit of knowledge is generally considered a good thing.

3. Free software has been the backbone of the internet for a very long time, and has enabled widespread adoption of technology and education in areas that could not afford commercial software.

4. We don't want to be fighting the for-profit sector, which has its rightful place in the industry. They are the ones picking fights IN LIEU OF releasing superior products, and we have to defend what we think is right.

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-Billco, Fnarg.com

Re:Needs programming support by chrysrobyn · 2009-12-30 06:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

Btw, did you file a bug report?

As a general rule, I fill out bug reports for projects that don't require new userids. If they need a new userid, I look to a forum to discuss the issue. If the forum requires a new userid to post, that's where I stop.

I've made hundreds of anonymous changes to Wikipedia, and they're generally my benchmark for how much trouble I am willing to go through to do something I have no ownership in.

Re:Still using old Gnome office suite by BrokenHalo · 2009-12-30 06:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually, I more prefer Abiword and Gnumeric over OO.o.

Gnumeric is a truly excellent program. Unfortunately, acceptance of the "Gnome Office" suite was sadly marred by fact that Abiword is just not in the same league. But OOo (and its close cousin, NeoOffice) has overcome its earlier shortcomings, and is now more than just a serious alternative to MSOffice. On my Linux boxes I don't have much of a choice (apart from Latex/LyX/TeX), but on my MacBook, I haven't fired up MSOffice in months.

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Is OpenOffice.org a Threat? Microsoft Thinks So

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