China Arrests Thousands In Internet Porn Crackdown

Clandestine_Blaze writes "Chinese police have arrested 5,394 people — with another 4,186 criminal cases in the works — in one of the largest crackdowns on Internet porn in the country. Even more arrests are expected in 2010, according to the Ministry of Public Security's website (In Chinese or Google translated into English). According to the Reuters article on the crackdown, one of the justifications was that the pornography was 'threatening the emotional health of children.' From the English translation of the Ministry of Public Security's website linked above, it appears that certain provinces are also offering 1,000 yuan and 2,000 yuan rewards, per person, for reporting illegal websites to the government."

Comments

I'm ever so thankful

[furball]

God bless the USA.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Entropy98]

Um... you can still go to jail for porn in the USA

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[OrangeTide]

when I heard about this the first thought in my head was, USA and China are so alike, it seems odd that they can't get along.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[gzipped_tar]

"Most people are fools, most authority is malignant, God does not exist, and everything is wrong. "

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[superflit]

Amen!!!!!

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[gowen]

Your country has its own equally insane legal idiocies. Go count how many people you imprison for possession of marijuana.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Teun]

Ever heard two like poles will repel each other?

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

At least there is HOPE that marijuana laws will CHANGE in the US. Some states are already setting precedents. We just need to get the damned Federal government out of it!

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[furball]

Gay porn exists dude. I don't know what to tell you.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

How about the slashdot article the other day where people were critical of the H1B program, so their sites were shutdown?

Seems censorship is alive in the "USA" as well?

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

But, they might be right about that. Have you considered their view point or just your own? For someone who supports such a libertarian society you don't seem to give a damn about others opinions ...

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[MrMr]

Could I metamoderate the moderators who moderated this as informative 'Funny'?

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[pieszynski]

oh come on, "we only have morality because of god"?

Really?? REALLY??

My incredulity is matched only by my overuse of the question mark.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Jawn98685]

If God (the moral agent) does not exist, then there is no concept of "wrong", right?

No. Wrong. Go back and retake Ethics 101 and learn that there are many, many ways to arrive at a more or less workable "moral code". And no, the "religious dogma as authority" path is seldom one that reaches the level of "workable", having almost invariably, a built-in "us versus them (who are less than us)" way of thinking.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[xch13fx]

yea but the public got behind the bloggers, and because places like slashdot are legal and spread the word like they should, the government backed down. In China they just start killing until people stop arguing.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

At least we only imprison them. They kill people for drug offences in China.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

Two like Poles don't repel, but they're usually "gay for pay", which means they can't seem to get it up and don't enjoy it when they do.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[khallow]

when I heard about this the first thought in my head was, USA and China are so alike, it seems odd that they can't get along.

Why would you think "like" attracts?

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Leynos]

ORLY? http://itgrunt.com/ is still "temporarily unavailable."

The author of the site is clearly a racist cunt rag, but you know what they say about unpopular speech.

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[Anonymous Coward]

Gay porn is made in Poland?

Re:I'm ever so thankful

[ps2os2]

Oh goody a new Polish joke.

I don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this strange concept, the Internet without porn? Maybe the meaning of "the Internet" was lost in translation for the Chinese.

Re:I don't understand

[furball]

Let me help you out with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNARJPNz2CA

Re:I don't understand

[selven]

The people left on an internet without porn would be quite bored. Both of them.

Re:I don't understand

[slarrg]

Until they find each other on AdultFriendFinder.com.

Re:I don't understand

[Hurricane78]

As the wise Dr. Cox once said: “I am fairly sure that if they took porn off the Internet, there would only be one website left, and it would be called ‘Bring back the porn’.”

Re:I don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

As the wise Dr. Cocks once said: “I am fairly sure that if they took porn off the Internet, there would only be one website left, and it would be called ‘Bring back the porn’.”

There, fixed that for you.

Re:I don't understand

[furball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGK2fplV_w

Start at 5:10

Re:I don't understand

[mjwx]

As the wise Dr. Cox once said: "I am fairly sure that if they took porn off the Internet, there would only be one website left, and it would be called 'Bring back the porn'."

Actually it was Ron White, but hey, all good comedy is plagiarism.

Re:I don't understand

[Hurricane78]

I write deep, intelligent comments. Comments that stir up reality as perceived. Things that I literally researched for years and thought about more than I can count. Insights that just stun me.

And THIS gets a +5, Insightful? Of all comments?? THIS?

Guys... I hate you... :(

Here, there’s something that deserves that score: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1495386&cid=30621228

1000 Yuan

[mjihad]

Since the the summary didn't mention it, 1000 yuan is about $146.50.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

Since your post didn't mention it, $146.50 is about 102.28 Euro.

Re:1000 Yuan

[The Evil Couch]

The direct exchange rate is not nearly as interesting as actual buying power that reward represents to the average person in China. I haven't studied economics, so someone can totally call me out on this, but it looks like purchasing power of the US is roughly eight times that of China, according to the Wikipedia. Based on this slightly-informed conclusion, it appears that the reward is roughly 1,172 USD, 1,233 CAD, 725 GBP, or 818 EUR. That number seems much more persuasive.

Re:1000 Yuan

[XorNand]

Yeah but the average Chinese is poorer than the average American. 1000 yuan is like the US government giving a citizen about $1100 for turning someone in.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

Since your post didn't mention it, 102.28 Euro is about 1,506,305,441,321 Zimbabwean dollars.

1,506,305,441,321,301 Zimbabwean dollars.

1,506,305,441,321,301,998 Zimbabwean dollars.

Crap...

Re:1000 Yuan

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

it appears that the reward is roughly 1,172 USD, 1,233 CAD, 725 GBP, or 818 EUR. That number seems much more persuasive.

Is that a typo? Do you mean renminbi? Or something else? I can't figure out what word you could have meant when you wrote "reward."

Maybe you are talking about something like the Big Mac Index?

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

Purchasing Power Parity perhaps?

Re:1000 Yuan

[IrquiM]

And $146.50 is like 8-900 NOKs, or a slow night out!

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the summary to see the reward he's talking about.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't know what a reward is? Get a dictionery, you dumb fuck.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Thanks. That makes sense. Sort, of. His numbers are totally off though. Anyone who has been to HK or any other big city in China knows 1 yuan is not worth even close to 1 dollar in terms of what you can buy.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

before someone else says it: yeah I know hk$ is not yuan, but its real close...

Re:1000 Yuan

[gangien]

and unfortunately the dollar could soon be the same way.

Re:1000 Yuan

[u38cg]

He means the equivalent "value" to that person, in terms of just how much pain you would feel handing over that amount of money. The Big Mac index is a simplified version of how this (purchasing power parity) is measured.

Re:1000 Yuan

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that a typo? Do you mean renminbi? Or something else? I can't figure out what word you could have meant when you wrote "reward."

The 1,000 yuan reward that TFSummary was talking about obviously.

(Not only did you fail to read a four-sentence article summary, but you managed to get voted up for it too. Great job!)

Re:1000 Yuan

[maxume]

He means reward. Adding "equivalent to " after roughly, and maybe "to a citizen of the countries using those currencies" after EUR might make things clearer.

Re:1000 Yuan

[magores]

As someone that lives in Beijing.....

-5USD will get you a lunch at MacDonalds, it takes 25RMB to get the same thing in Beijing
-1USD will get you a can of Coke, 2RMB for the same thing
-5USD at Starbucks, 25RMB for the same thing

Two boneless chicken breasts are ~15rmb
Butter cookies (the xmas traditional kind) are 50rmb for a tin
New modern paperback novel is 60rmb to 160rmb depending on author
mp3 headphones are 20rmb to 160rmb depending on brand and what store
The other night, dinner for 2, fish hot pot, with veggies and mushrooms was 300rmb

People carry 100rmb notes the way most Americans carry 20 dollar bills. 1000rmb is not that much.

(Of course, Im talking about a city like Beijing, middle class consumers. Not farmers out west.)

Re:1000 Yuan

[MrResistor]

Which would be doubly crappy for Zimbabweans, since they gave up on their own currency and switched to US dollars.

China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Zombie Ryushu]

China is not a Left Wing or Communist State. There may be an entity called the Communist Party of China, but by no means is China Leftist, or even Socialist. They are a Fascist Autocracy.

No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography. (Nor would they even care.)

Not that I am advocating Communism, which has failed everywhere it has been tried, and is an unworkable ideology, but as a leftist, who is deeply concerned about the rise of Right Wing Fascism around the world, I am concerned what this could cause Western governments to adopt. We have already seen that a large percentage of our Christian Right extremists in the USA and Canada do not believe in sexual equality or egalitarianism, or freedom of speech. I worry this will give them ideas.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

"No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography. (Nor would they even care.)"

Socialist crackpots have defined socialism and communism as good, hence by definition nothing bad is part of it.

If a state does bad things, the state is not a socialist state, hence it cannot be used as a negative example for any purpose in discussions about socialism.

If a person does bad things, the person is not a socialist, hence he cannot be used as a negative example for any purpose in discussions about socialism.

If a society has bad things in it, none of these bad things accrue to socialism. In fact, pointing out this fact is so important that if a guy sits at home in a socialist state and tells his children that socialism is bad, then this must be sought out and eradicated. Untruths about socialism cannot be accepted even in the most private corners. (Cue Norway, where the Socialist Left party announced that the state is better than parents at raising children most of the time).

Maybe someone has drunk too much of the totalitarian-perfectionist idiot brew.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[plasticsquirrel]

As an American living in China, it pains me to see this sort of hysterical nonsense on Slashdot all the time. China is the new Evil Empire, apparently. Scream "fascist" all you want, but you and most other westerners do not understand Chinese civilization or the role that government has traditionally played in it. Then again, maybe the U.S. should "pre-empt" their errors, and save China from the Chinese. :-P

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women. This goes back to the revolution, in which women were eager to participate to get some basic equality with men. You can argue that women have a choice, but in poor provinces, you can bet that it would be akin to prostitution, where young women are basically forced into the lifestyle because they have no other options.

Chinese society is quite conservative about sex, or at least it has that appearance. For example, it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls. In a country where virginity is prized and sex can almost be like a contract for marriage, that sort of thing isn't taken lightly. In the same way, if Chinese people think their women are being debased (as in porn), they tend to get very angry.

I am not going to try to explain 5000 years of Chinese civilization to you, or explain every way that it is different from the West, but I would encourage Slashdotters to read this article from the LA Times. It explains quite a bit about the role of government in China and how the West has gotten it wrong with predicting that China would become more like them (developing a rights tradition, embracing democracy, etc.).

Article: Understanding China

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[BlackBloq]

Don't worry about what other think too much or you will try and control that.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[mindbrane]

I recently finished an excellent set of Yale uni Online lectures by R Wyman titled "Global Population and Biological Development". In one of the later lectures Professor Wyman reported on first hand experiences of scientist working in China investigating birth control programmes both as to their implementation and efficacy. In an earlier lecture he made the point that the current Chinese government has been able to convince the general population that the Chinese state exists as a viable entity. This point is interesting in light of reports by people working in China reporting on various birth control programmes. The gist of the reports was that the central government made sweeping claims and policy implementations that when translated, implemented and reported by the various districts came out in the wash as markedly different from the original proclamations made by the central government. Locally people seem in large measure to implement such policies as they see fit and to colour reports back to the central government to placate central control agencies.

Chinese history is a history of warring states so much so that I'm not able to subscribe to Professor Wyman claim that China has attained unification. Taiwan stands out as a stark example in terms of how young the mainland state is. I recall the Chinese government is only about 60 years old and faces an economic reality that greatly flies in the face of it's communist posture. A central regime that broadcasts slogans like "Purity and Harmony" and implements draconian practices to influence it's population on the level of their sexual drive smacks of desperation.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[furball]

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women. This goes back to the revolution, in which women were eager to participate to get some basic equality with men.

How's that working out for the women in China? Here in the West where porn is legal (for the most part), we have Germany with a female prime minister. Great Britain had a female PM also. The US has had multiple female VP candidates. We have numerous female in cabinet positions. A woman currently is the leader of the House of Representatives. Another is running DHS badly. Another woman heads the state department. That's the public sector. In the private sector we've had countless female CEO that I'm not going to bother listing all of them.

Are there any signs women are equal with more men because China does not allow porn? I'm not terribly familiar with the internal governing of China or who runs their corporations. I'm amazed I even know where China is on the map.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[indiechild]

I would've thought porn and prostitution is more important than ever now that there is a massive gender imbalance brewing in China. Way too many girls being aborted in the past, so there is an excess of young men.

As for porn not being allowed because it demeans women, isn't that the basic premise that applies all over the world, universally? Yet porn exists anyway, and is consumed by many who (hypocritically) claim to be protecting women. OK, now that's opening a whole new other can of worms.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Hurricane78]

Well, there basically never was a communist state in human history.
Because, as far as I remember, a real communist state has no government, but is governed from the bottom up.
Those government in those states are supposed to be temporary, to implement the changes, and then dissolve themselves.
Yeah, that never happens. ;)

The thing is, that the communist idea, in theory is really nice. Just as democracy.
The problem is, that both ideas are based on faulty theory. The communist one even more than the democracy one.
The error is, that they assume there would be such a thing as 100% altruistic people who could ignore their own interests in favor of the general public. To put them in charge. Basically as a medium. A channel for the interests of the people.

Of course that is just a pretty dream, as there is no such thing in reality. The whole evolution is the exact opposite of this. Any organism of that kind would die out in the blink of an eye. To be replaced by something that only cares for itself.
But the idea stems from the fact, that we as humans, are really great at teamwork. We are the only ones who have a “society” which is basically a huge team, working together. The thing is though: While for most of the time that humans existed, we were small groups of 20-30 people, we now are huge teams. Way too huge.
Our common good has taken a back seat, and we focus more on personal gain.

I think, a nice model is the Arabic philosophy of “me and you, against the town. me, you and the town, against the [county]. me, you, the town and the [county] against the country. ... etc” Basically a fractal model of priority. That way you can still profit from team work, and only look at the large groups if needed. You don’t become egocentric that easily.
But I’m digressing.

What we need is small groups. Where you can’t survive if you act egocentric and try to become a dictator. Where the group can easily personally come up to you, and throw you out. Where the personal gain IS the gain of your group. Like a large family basically. Protecting your genes. Ever if you die, you will then live on.
But also on that new level of ideas/mindsets. (You may be aware of the concept that one can look at those like lifeforms, and that the models then strangely still fit.) Small communities (and/or fractal ones) on the Internet, protecting your mindset/ideas, so they will live on.

In my opinion, our current forms of society don’t really work for that exact reason. A leader wants to have a personal (or small group) gain. It’s in his genes because of billions of years of evolution enforcing it. It’s only natural.
So naturally, he always and without exception will have huge conflict with the interests of people that elected him. This is unavoidable.

But I still don’t know how this knowledge helps me, live in a society where my interests and that of my group don’t conflict. Other than starting a family and emigrating to the wilderness ;)

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Cassius Corodes]

Yes they are different but were we not exactly like them once? As societies develop and stabilise they generally become liberal. Chinese so far have gone in this direction. People said things like this about many of the traditional conservative countries in Europe as well but over time they too opened up. People are not somehow fundamentally different - but they have different cultures - and these change over time. They are not going to turn into liberals immediately, but as the average education improves, as the financial situation improves society will open up from within.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

too many big words ..

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fascism is a left-wing ideology, because it is a collectivist ideology. It's the same thing with nazism (national socialism). Fascism is when you are allowed to have property, but the collective decides what you can do with it.

No, fascism is when the government works on behalf of corporations, and vice versa.

Right-wing ideology is about individualism, and among other things, letting you own and control your property.

As a leftist you should be in favor of fascism.

No, right-wing ideology is about maintaining the status quo, and among other things, consolidating power and wealth in the hands of those who already have power and wealth.

As a rightist, you should be in favor of fascism.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

You've drunk the Kool-Aid. I've lived in China for years, and I've heard a few westerners speak exactly as you do.
There are two major forces at work here:

1. Propaganda, nationalist extremists, and a strong feedback mechanism between the two.
2. Historical revisionism.

That mysticism argument goes something like this:
"Oh you can't possibly understand Chinese culture; It's too complex for you, and even if you learned Mandarin, read every book written in Mandarin, you still can't understand because you weren't born Chinese"

The reality is quite simple to understand. China is crashing into the modern world and as individuals try to make sense of it all, the national identity is in crisis. From the top down, there comes authority and an appeal to history, nationalism and racism.
From the bottom up, comes sexual revolution, and rejection of tradition, as well as some reflection of authoritarianism that came from the top.

Basically you're just generalising, and generalising sucks because it gloms everyone together, then stamps all over individuality.

Ps. I didn't find Chinese girls and guys ;-) in the least bit conservative about sex.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[NecroPuppy]

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women.

And China's deification of Mao, who preferred young women (we'd consider him a pedophile) didn't demean women? (The New Emperors: China in the Era of Mao and Deng)

How about the one-child policy, which causes Chinese to prefer male children, to the point where female children are abandoned or "accidentally" killed? You'd think that would demean women.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

While I suspect we are in ideological agreement, I think citing female politicians as a sign of a country's empowerment of women isn't a terribly hot idea because I can name a couple of contrary cases: Pakistan and Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and the Philippines with presidents Corazon Aquino and Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. Both countries are very restrictive of their women - although they are both in the grip of different religions.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[furball]

So female politicians leading a country isn't empowerment of women? What pray tell is empowerment of women then?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Antique Geekmeister]

In other news, middle managers and bureaucrats continue to turn corporate and federal policy into quaint, local strategies of turf-building and funds-gathering worldwide.

Film at 11.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[drinkypoo]

As an American living in China, it pains me to see this sort of hysterical nonsense on Slashdot all the time. China is the new Evil Empire, apparently.

Not really. China is the old Evil Empire.

Then again, maybe the U.S. should "pre-empt" their errors, and save China from the Chinese. :-P

If China is truly determined to industrialize without any thought to emissions, then perhaps the world should save the world from China.

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women.

That's a bunch of horse shit. Chinese culture is demeaning to women. I've had to sit through several rants on sexism in China. As a result of sexism in China, there are over 25 million excess males of military/breeding age, and another 25 million on the way, for whom there are no women. No nation's women prefer Chinese men, including China (the same is true of Thailand... another nation with fascism encoded in law.) China is going to have to have a war, or get very gay.

It explains quite a bit about the role of government in China and how the West has gotten it wrong with predicting that China would become more like them (developing a rights tradition, embracing democracy, etc.).

China has become more like the US in that they are becoming more consumerist as they gain access to money to buy their own shitty, polluting crap which formerly has been the exclusive domain of the rest of the world. Over time, their desire for more shiny gewgaws likely will produce a more capitalistic society. Appealing to human greed rarely fails. An industrialized society provides new opportunities to hide criminal behavior.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Weird. You start saying "it's stupid to call China fascist, because...", then you proceed to describe one damn reactionary culture.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Stormwatch]

How about the one-child policy, which causes Chinese to prefer male children, to the point where female children are abandoned or "accidentally" killed? You'd think that would demean women.

You are mixing cause and effect. The fact that they value male children more is preexistent; now add the one child policy, and you have the causes. The result being the mass elimination of female babies.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

So female politicians leading a country isn't empowerment of women?

The upperclass has always operated under different rules from general population. We've had queens, emperesses and princesses going back forever in both the west and the east. If female politicians leading a country were a sign of general female empowerment then women have not been repressed since at least the days of Cleopatra.

What pray tell is empowerment of women then?

Economic and social parity with men in the general population.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Chinese society is quite conservative about sex, or at least it has that appearance.

You're right about the appearance bit...

For example, it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma

That's what you call 'conservative'?

for deflowering local girls.

Looks like you're the conservative one.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[furball]

Are you saying that China has more gender parity than the porn-ridden West thanks to its stance on porn or are you saying China has less gender parity than the porn-ridden West?

Are you aware of any nations where gender parity is close to even AND porn is illegal?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I am saying one thing - the presence of female political and business leaders doesn't mean jack squat about the amount of gender parity in the general population because for every example in a liberalized country one can find an example in a repressive country. Capiche?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[RMS Eats Toejam]

Perhaps for the 2nd time, I have to call BS on you. While you claim to be an American living in China, your post reads more like an armchair professor who's watched one to many episodes of Frontline.

I am also here in China and have found Chinese men to be very interested in porn with views of women that are on average much worse than I consider the norm in the USA. Many of them are so sex obsessed that it's often the first topic they will bring up in private conversation. Many of them have showed me websites where one can download pictures of Bikini models. Even entire photo shoots in zipped sets much like your average porn site. Why? Because it's the closest thing to porn allowed by law. It's pretty easy to find men in their 30s trading explicit pictures like a teenager discovering dad's collection of playboys for the first time. Foreigners getting beaten? Sounds scary, but most urban legends are. Yes, virginity may very well be prized if you are living in the sticks, but for most Internet users this old lifestyle simply does not apply.

You aren't going to explain 5,000 years of Chinese civilization to us because you can't. You don't know as much as you claim and it would seem to me that you haven't gained as much from your experience as you may have thought.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[mdwh2]

Who are you talking to? I can't see left wing or communism in the summary of the article, apart from a reference to the Communist Party (which is perfectly factual and reasonable, and doesn't imply to me that this ban is related to communism in general).

No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography. (Nor would they even care.)

Being left or right wing is independent of views or laws on pornography. Why should a country's economical state affect this? It would be wrong to say that left wing Governments are more likely to crack down on porn (did anyone say that?), but equally, I don't think you can claim that no left wing Government would do so.

Being liberal on the other hand is relevant, as by definition that is a term to do with supporting individual freedom.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[mdwh2]

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women.

Porn crackdowns in countries like the UK and US are made with exactly the same claim - "it demeans women". That still doesn't make it a valid argument for criminalising images of consenting adults. Why should China be any different?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[furball]

Fully empowered and successful, a woman in the public or private sector will rise out of the general population. Case in point, one Sarah Palin. Unless you think that her background is upper class.

The same applies to men, incidentally.

There's a secret to political leadership in democratic societies. The first skill that leads to political success is fund raising. The art of fund raising is directly related to your ability to convince other people to open their wallets and give you money to run your campaign. There's a reason why no democratically elected politician is poor. If you know how to fund raise, making money is trivial. If you can't convince people to contribute to your campaign, getting their vote is likely to be just as difficult.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Hognoxious]

No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography.

It has nothing to do with left or right (even if you agree with a single dimension of politics). Both suppress it for their own reasons. The left often do it because it's demeaning to women, the right for religious reasons.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Njovich]

Why don't you google for some terms like 'chinese empress', 'women leaders in china' and tell me your findings?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[ZarathustraDK]

The error is, that they assume there would be such a thing as 100% altruistic people who could ignore their own interests in favor of the general public. To put them in charge. Basically as a medium. A channel for the interests of the people. Of course that is just a pretty dream, as there is no such thing in reality.

GPLv3?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fascism is a left-wing ideology, because it is a collectivist ideology. It's the same thing with nazism (national socialism). Fascism is when you are allowed to have property, but the collective decides what you can do with it.

No, fascism is when the government works on behalf of corporations, and vice versa.

You mean like Government Motors?

Right-wing ideology is about individualism, and among other things, letting you own and control your property.

As a leftist you should be in favor of fascism.

No, right-wing ideology is about maintaining the status quo, and among other things, consolidating power and wealth in the hands of those who already have power and wealth.

As a rightist, you should be in favor of fascism.

"right-wing ideology is about maintaining the status quo"?!?!

That's a laugher. Just try shaking up the Che-worshiping power structure in wackademia and see who worships the status quo.

" consolidating power and wealth in the hands of those who already have power and wealth"

Even funnier.

Take a look at all the power the federal government has in the US. Look how it's running amok. Now tell me: is it the left or the right who wants to turn the single largest sector of the US economy - health care - over to the already all-too-powerful government?

Tell me: is it the left or the right that's always screaming for more taxes to feed the monster of government?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

"right-wing ideology is about maintaining the status quo"?!?!

That's a laugher. Just try shaking up the Che-worshiping power structure in wackademia and see who worships the status quo.

Yeah, and we all know what a powerful group those college professors are! Forget the halls of Congress, forget the board room, all the really important decisions are made in front of a blackboard!

BTW, 1995 called. It wants its goofy caricature of academics back.

Take a look at all the power the federal government has in the US. Look how it's running amok.

It isn't, but the fact that you think it is tells me all I need to know about your ideology.

Now tell me: is it the left or the right who wants to turn the single largest sector of the US economy - health care - over to the already all-too-powerful government?

Neither. The bills in Congress would do nothing of the sort.

Some members of the left -- not the ones in power, mind you -- would like to turn health insurance over to the government. But no one in America is seriously advocating turning health care over to the government (as in the UK, where doctors are government employees).

Now you tell me: is is the left or the right who wants to preserve a failed health care system, at the expense of tens of thousands of lives per year, in order to avoid rocking the boat and maintain the stock price of a handful of large corporations?

Tell me: is it the left or the right that's always screaming for more taxes to feed the monster of government?

Tell me: is it the left or the right that's always screaming for lower taxes on rich people (especially the estate tax) and complaining about "redistribution of wealth"?

Is it the left or the right that wants to replace the income tax (which is progressive, reducing the concentration of wealth) with a sales tax (which, at best, would be flat and maintain the status quo in terms of wealth concentration; more likely it would be regressive and concentrate wealth even further)?

Is it the left or the right that denounces community organizing, challenges voter registrations, and generally opposes anything that would grant political power to those who are underrepresented?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[khallow]

No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography. (Nor would they even care.)

How do you explain the feminists who attack pornography as something objectifying women? And while China probably isn't a liberal government, I doubt the claim that it isn't leftist.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let us see. In India, where porn is illegal, we have had a woman prime minister in 1966. As of now:

The president of India
The speak of the Lok Sabha (the lower house)
The leader of the biggest political party
The leader of opposition in the Lok Sabha
Leaders of at least 3 other parties
Chief Ministers in 2 states at the moment
The Foreign Secretary (a bureaucrat, not a politician)
CEO of the second largest Indian bank
Dy. CEO of the largest foreign bank

etc etc... (a lot many more). Does this prove anything? Mind you, India has had women at the top government/administrative positions much before many countries in the western world (I think only Golda Meier pre-dates Indira Gandhi).

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women. This goes back to the revolution, in which women were eager to participate to get some basic equality with men. You can argue that women have a choice, but in poor provinces, you can bet that it would be akin to prostitution, where young women are basically forced into the lifestyle because they have no other options.

Question that comes to mind: do they allow gay-porn then?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[khallow]

Chinese history is a history of warring states so much so that I'm not able to subscribe to Professor Wyman claim that China has attained unification.

It's also a history of unified empires. One isn't more typical than the other. How you view it seems more a matter of personal preference (the glass is "half full" versus "half empty") than any objective measure of Chinese society.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

How about the one-child policy, which causes Chinese to prefer male children, to the point where female children are abandoned or "accidentally" killed? You'd think that would demean women.

How dare you say that! Are you anti-choice?!

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey,dude. I'm chinese and i think i know my culture and my country well. I agree with you to some degree, but i have to say that this conservative about sex has greatly decreased in the generation of "90s". They dont care so much about things like virginity as their parents do, the value of this generation has changed a lot. The social and economical reform after 1979 has created both economical prospery and social problems, about which the government is so worried. Many ppl think the government act as if they are fighting against internent pron, but in fact they are wiping out the voice of objectors, the ones who are not happy about current government and its policy. In recent 2 months, over 15000 websites has been closed by police or blocked by the national firewall, only 1/3 of them is because of porn and pirate. Maybe you have already heard of the Great Firewall, namely the national internet firewall blocking the websites unwelcome to the government. We cant connect the websites such as facebook, twitter, flickr, blogger, youtube in normal way:( we have to use software like Tor, Freegate or use VPN, proxy server to connect them.
Since 2000, the government has lauched a project to cencorship all data passing through the internet. Tolerance no longer exists on chinese internet.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Foolicious]

We have already seen that a large percentage of our Christian Right extremists in the USA and Canada do not believe in sexual equality or egalitarianism, or freedom of speech. I worry this will give them ideas.

So...what you're saying is, that as long as people believe what you believe regarding sexual equality or egalitarianism, for example, they can believe whatever they want to believe, right?

But otherwise, their beliefs are dangerous, and must be...wait for it...wait for it...censored. Or better yet, criminalized.

All that to say that I hope you realize that you're doing the exact same thing as the people you obviously despise. I do recognize you won't be able to handle the cognitive dissonance of this idea and my typing has been a waste of a couple minutes, but I thought I'd point it out anyways, just for the heck of it.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[theboogeyman]

Oh here we go again with the "5000 years of culture"

You must be one of those laowei who thinks China is so "exotic" and mystical". Hey buddy I have a newwsflash for you: China is just another regular country with nothing exceptional. Almost all countries around the world has thousands of years of history too. Just pick any European or Arabic country.

The reason why the CCCP is cracking down on pornography is because they don't like it and they can. The Communist Party is an authoritarian government and they will ban anything they don't like. It is not because they think porn demeans woman (I'm not saying it doesn't though). By the way, there is nothing specifically in Chinese culture that looks down on porn. That is why China is one of the biggest consumers of Japanese hentai and pornography. I think the CCCP is banning porn because they think it leads to Western "decadence". This is more like what Islamic countries might do.

I don't understand how so many foreigners in China develop this China fetish that seem to cloud there ability to think and judge rationally. Luckily I was never affected by this in my time there which I have termed the China fetish syndrome. If you hear anybody say the West is wrong about China because they have "5000 years of civilization", you know this person has the China Fetish Syndrome.

theboogeyman

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Chinese society is quite conservative about sex, or at least it has that appearance. For example, it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls. In a country where virginity is prized and sex can almost be like a contract for marriage, that sort of thing isn't taken lightly. In the same way, if Chinese people think their women are being debased (as in porn), they tend to get very angry.

To illustrate: recently former miss Belgium, UN goodwill ambassador and sexologist Goedele Liekens went to China to speak at the university of Beijing. Her lecture got shut down by the professor in charge because, true to her no nonsense nature, she wasn't shy about talking directly about the male and female genitals.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[willis]

Chinese society is quite conservative about sex, or at least it has that appearance. For example, it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls. In a country where virginity is prized and sex can almost be like a contract for marriage, that sort of thing isn't taken lightly. In the same way, if Chinese people think their women are being debased (as in porn), they tend to get very angry.

I hear you re: western fear mongers, but some of your stuff is WAY off base. In particular, prostitution is a big business in China -- lots of hair salons (especially near army bases, but anywhere busy), KTV salons (not the ones that foreigners typically go to), and Yezonghui "night clubs" have some sort of prostitution going on. There's a reason why waiters in restaurants are now called "fuwuyuan" instead of "xiaojie" -- too many connotations.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

but in poor provinces, you can bet that it would be akin to prostitution, where young women are basically forced into the lifestyle because they have no other options.

This implies that those women will now die instead, if they truly have no other options.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a goddamn moron if you really think that is why they want to get rid of porn.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[greyhueofdoubt]

You can argue that women have a choice, but in poor provinces, you can bet that it would be akin to prostitution, where young women are basically forced into the lifestyle because they have no other options.

Compared to what women would normally do in poor provinces to get by?

I think that if China is worried about 'demeaning women', it should worry more about:

The lopsided male-female ratio is believed to be the result of female infanticide in a society that values boys and where most couples are allowed only one child.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/17/china.mainsection

Or

"China is the only country where suicides among women outnumber men," Yang Fude, vice-president of Beijing Hui Long Guan Hospital, was quoted by the China Daily as saying.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST2878220070911

I would like more substantial proof that women are being 'demeaned' by internet porn more than China's own disastrous social policies (which began in their current form long before the internet came about).

A quick search for 'rural chinese porn' (in english and chinese) showed nothing but story after story about China's porn crackdown and nothing even remotely resembling the subjugation of poor rural women.

More proof, please.

-b

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

"No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography."

Feminazis are leftists and are against porn, aren't they? It seems to me that the problem is trying to make the political spectrum only 1-dimensional.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Economic and social parity with men in the general population.

So the day a typical /.er is lusted over by females and they pick up the tab at dinner?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Vellmont]

Scream "fascist" all you want, but you and most other westerners do not understand Chinese civilization or the role that government has traditionally played in it
.
.
.
it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls.
.
.
.

Right, nothing fascist about that. Why would anyone scream fascist?

I'm sorry, but "understanding" a culture doesn't excuse it. I'm sure if you "understood" slavery in the United States you it might make more sense. I'm actually a bit surprised the Great Firewall Of China allows you to post on slashdot. How many stories haven't you been able to read because the Chinese government doesn't approve of it?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[d_54321]

Compare and contrast your argument with this

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

"cream "fascist" all you want, but you and most other westerners do not understand Chinese civilization or the role that government has traditionally played in it."

It doesn't matter what role the Chinese government has "traditionally" played. The role they are currently playing is abhorrent, regardless of what Chinese culture of history says.

"The basic reason that the Chinese do not allow porn is that they believe that it demeans women."

I do not care what the Chinese believe. Regardless of what they believe, arresting someone for filming or viewing porn is wrong.

"
Chinese society is quite conservative about sex, or at least it has that appearance."

Must I continue with this? I do not give a rat's ass about what is common in 'Chinese society.' It still stands, on the grounds of ethics, that the Chinese government is doing something very wrong.

"For example, it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls. "

That's horrifying and barbaric. They should be ashamed.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[dargaud]

How's that working out for the women in China?

Yeah, and I wonder about the consequences of this high male to female birth ratio due to single child policy and preference for male (hence lots of abortions of females). What are they gonna do with all those extra males if they can't keep them happy with an extra serving of porn ? Send them off to war ?!?

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Kinjin]

There is nothing new about the Chinese government doing evil things. So living over there has either kept you out of touch with reality, or you are knee deep in the kool aid.

The assertions you make are simply invalid. If the Chinese people really believe what you claim there wouldn't be anyone to arrest because to begin with no one would be watching porn.

Unless you mean there are a bunch of Chinese out there watching porn, angry with themselves for how it "demeans" woman while beating themselves into a coma... oh wait.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[jmkelly]

I suppose the same can be said of conservative Muslims (e.g., the governments of Saudi Arabia and Iran) and fundamentalist Christians in the USA: they hate porn because they revere women. And yet the status of women in those societies -- in all strata -- is generally lower, their freedoms more curtailed, than in societies where porn is tolerated, e.g. Denmark, Sweden, Germany.

I don't deny that much porn demeans women. But in the real world, crusades against porn and oppression of women more often than not coexist, and are even run by the same people.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

Infallible indication: who holds the family purse: http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/who_holds_the_purse.php

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[furball]

Does this prove anything?

It proves that the legal position of porn has nothing to do with women empowerment and the argument that equality for women is possible by making porn illegal is bullshit.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[LordVader717]

As an American living in China, it pains me to see this sort of hysterical nonsense on Slashdot all the time. China is the new Evil Empire, apparently. Scream "fascist" all you want, but you and most other westerners do not understand Chinese civilization or the role that government has traditionally played in it. Then again, maybe the U.S. should "pre-empt" their errors, and save China from the Chinese. :-P

The objection that we can not judge a state because we "do not understand Chinese civilisation" is cliché and polemic toward historians and political scientists.

The PRC shows many signs totalitarianism and nationalism. It is a severely oppressive ethnically authoritarian superstate.
You may want to argue how this is good and the best thing for Chinese people, but I think most people consider all of these characteristics of "evil-Empire".

It is difficult to generalize in a huge country with many different cultures. But perceptions of sexual decency are relatively universal, so I'd say we don't need a specifically Chinese introduction.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[tragedy]

I would have to say that treating womens sexuality as a treasure owned not by her, but by her family and society, which is what you're really talking about here, is typically just another way of demeaning women. Pornography, prostitution and promiscuity (how alliterative) are fairly divisive issues even among feminists. Some feminists take an absolutist approach and insist that a women's ability to choose to participate in such is a form of empowerment, whereas others see some or all of those things as demeaning and damaging. Frankly though, I don't think feminists from either camp would actually agree with you that China's porn crackdown is really about defending the rights of women. My personal point of view is that the social harm from such things is almost always less than the harm from criminalizing them.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant. The real question is, is anyone being prosecuted/persecuted in this mess for pure male/male homosexual porn. If there's even one, then it puts the lie to your theory that this is all about protecting women from being demeaned.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've lived in China about 4 years now and I agree. It's definitely not conservative when it comes to sexual matters. Whenever I hear say someone say "You don't understand Chinese culture." all I have to do is ask a few questions and it becomes clear beyond what they learned in school they don't have much understanding of Chinese culture... so if they can't understand it then they must think that a foreigner can't possibly understand it.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[ps2os2]

Yes its failed just about everywhere its been tried. The Chinese people are entirely different than anyplace else in the world.
Chinese people have been for hundreds (thousands?) of years been taught that authority is "king" you do not question authority.
It will be interesting to see how long it will last in China, all bets are off as I said above Chinese people are quite different than *ANYPLACE* else in the world.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[shutdown -p now]

No liberal or leftist government would attack the consumption of adult pornography. (Nor would they even care.)

I dunno. USSR certainly had a leftist government, even if authoritarian one - I mean, it had universal healthcare, free post-secondary education for everyone, guaranteed work, free apartments, any full-time salary (and remember, work is guaranteed) would provide you with enough to eat healthily, etc.

And guess what? Homosexuality was a crime in USSR, punished by imprisonment for up to five years, since as early as 1926. The rationale? Supposedly, homosexualism is "one of the byproducts of the ongoing moral rotting of the bourgeois society", as well as "unsanitary practice".

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

With nearly 5 years in China myself, I hardly know what "it isn't unheard of to hear of a foreigner beaten into a coma for deflowering local girls" is about.

Honestly, have you fucked anyone there? I've creampied a lot of normal girls, and been REGULARLY offered virgins from Mama-sans at the $15/full service red light barbershops so prevalent in EVER city. There isn't a person associated that would hesitate or have a problem with the fact that I'm not Chinese if I paid the $200-500 fee for a fresh off the farm virgin. I had one 18 year old chick who was already partially pro that offered me some of her 18 year old friends, still virgins, that were looking to get a pretty penny from being "popped" before getting into the business.

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Hurricane78]

LOL. You’re kidding, right?

Step out of the tiny tiny box first, would ya? Then we can talk. :)

Re:China is not a Left Wing or Communist State.

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] you and most other westerners do not understand Chinese civilization or the role that government has traditionally played in it.

Porn is legal in Taiwan, where Chinese people elect their government.

Reward?

[MrDoh!]

Can anyone claim the reward? or do we have to be in China?
I'm sure I could rummage around my bookmarks for a few choice sites.

Re:Reward?

[plasticsquirrel]

It's only $300, and I believe the websites need to be hosted in China. They want to stop people from making porn in China (viewed as exploiting local women), and they don't care so much about people simply viewing porn on foreign sites. $300 is the monthly salary for many Chinese, if that puts it into perspective. It's difficult to say whether what class that is, though, because incomes are all over the place. Maybe it's a working class salary.

Re:Reward?

[TangoMargarine]

Did you miss the article about the "Great Firewall" blocking all non-locally-approved websites? I wouldn't care so much about people simply viewing porn on foreign sites if it's not possible to without resorting to evasive measures, which a good chunk of people will never bother to use.

What happened to the whitelisting system??

[lkcl]

um... wasn't there a slashdot report about whitelisting of all foreign web sites, so that no external porn would get into the country?? did someone in the chinese government forget about the concept of a) mirrors b) home-grown porn, then?

Jail all the Activists !

[eulernet]

Only the activists search for porn on the Internet.

Officials are encouraged for morality:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/14/chinese-officials-told-to_n_358021.html

And for all whose who want to get free porn, they surely search for freedom, so they are potential activists.

It will be difficult to find online chinese porn.

Re:Jail all the Activists !

[Rockoon]

Only the activists search for porn on the Internet.

I find porn on the internet by clicking on banner ads until I get to a porn site. Its like thw owl in the lollipop... one... two... THREE! It takes THREE banner ad clicks to get to porn on the internet!

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[MichaelSmith]

In the scheme of things pornography exposure is not the end of the world but it does subtly alter your thought processes, and not for the better.

By what measure? Come on AC, justify your assertion.

it is just me or

[Anonymous Coward]

the world is going downhill

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[courseofhumanevents]

Adults who willingly make a choice to use certain things constantly at harm to themselves are not society's burden.
We don't ban McDonald's because some folks don't eat anything else and hurt themselves in doing so.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

If you start immersing yourself in material with racist (for instance) views you should not be surprised if some of them begin to rub off on you. The same goes for significant exposure to pornography.

Okay, a) if the porn is depicting consensual acts, then there's really nothing wrong with it ... "rubbing off on you." Hardly equivalent to racism.

And b), that's bs anyway. I can personally attest that watching porn in no way increases sexual activity.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. My own view is that porn can and will distort the development of healthy relationships in younger people. That the increasingly mainstream acceptance of porn surplants shared values where people are respected first and foremost for who they are rather than the shape or accessibility of parts of their bodies - increasingly the mainstay of celebrity culture. Not to mention that porn comodifies sex, denegrates the actors involved in it's production and is strongly associated with less salubrious ends of society.

This sound you hear....

[DrYak]

Um... you can still go to jail for porn in the USA

Um... sorry, does anyone know how to spell "Whooosh!" in Chinese ?

Re:This sound you hear....

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally inappropriate use of the "whoosh". That was a completely appropriate and insightful post in the given context. "Whoosh" implies the poster did not "get it".

Oh wait a second...

Re:This sound you hear....

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Um... sorry, does anyone know how to spell "Whooosh!" in Chinese ?"

That is how you spell Whooosh in Chinese you insensitive clod !

Re:This sound you hear....

[citizenr]

Um... you can still go to jail for porn in the USA

Um... sorry, does anyone know how to spell "Whooosh!" in Chinese ?

Ni hao?

Less than 10,000 in a billion watch porn?

[syousef]

It's a country of saints and monks I tells ya!

Re:Less than 10,000 in a billion watch porn?

[IrquiM]

One ISP down, more to go!

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

Adults who willingly make a choice to use certain things constantly at harm to themselves are not society's burden. We don't ban McDonald's because some folks don't eat anything else and hurt themselves in doing so.

Actually - obesity is a burden on society's resources. And there's a strong precedent for banning stuff that is bad for people - such as heroine, cocaine, and even tobacco is now heavily sanctioned. The view that people make choices somehow isolated from the rest of their world is wrong - even with porn, consumption creates demand that will be fulfiled by pornographers

Darknets

[MichaelSmith]

In some corners of the world it is time to get serious about crypto and darknets. If the chinese government is not careful, their attempts to suppress pornography may lead to the creation of networks which will ultimately bring them down.

Re:Darknets

[lale]

thank you

Re:Darknets

[JeanBaptiste]

well if Iran was any indication, it will take more than 'people on the internets' to bring down a regime.

Re:Darknets

[MichaelSmith]

With the right network you would just undermine the government. No protests, no violence. Just ignore them and set up your own system.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

There is NOTHING wrong with porn
been watching it since 13 and I've known some who started earlier

I haven't killed anyone, I haven't raped anyone, I haven't committed a single crime, graduated from college with honors and now I'm employed and make a nice sum of money. Been watching porn for more than 10 years. Nothing rubbed on me! None of the crazy extreme fetishes I've jacked off to on porn, trickled down to my sex life.

-1 wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Holy shit

[Anonymous Coward]

rm -rf ~/porn

Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

It must be lousy to go through puberty in China I imagine. I mean, it is still a male oriented country, right? More males than females. Now, they're cracking down on pornography?

On the other hand...

[Anonymous Coward]

Socialist crackpots have defined socialism and communism as good, hence by definition nothing bad is part of it.

If a state does bad things, the state is not a socialist state, hence it cannot be used as a negative example for any purpose in discussions about socialism.

Similarly, capitalist crackpots have defined the free market as good, hence by definition nothing bad is part of it.

If a market produces bad outcomes, that market is not a free market, hence it cannot be used as a negative example for any purpose in discussions about capitalism.

Untruths about socialism cannot be accepted even in the most private corners. (Cue Norway, where the Socialist Left party announced that the state is better than parents at raising children most of the time).

Similarly, untruths about capitalism cannot be accepted even in the most private corners. (Cue the United States, where the Republican Party regularly announces that the individual is better than the state at doing everything all the time.)

Re:On the other hand...

[Anonymous Coward]

OP here. This shouldn't be modded a troll IMHO, because they are valid counterpoints. I also think they are wrong.

Similarly, capitalist crackpots have defined the free market as good, hence by definition nothing bad is part of it.

This is where I empathically disagree. Capitalists have generally been very good at recognising that problems will exist in capitalist societies, and come up with ways that those problems must either be dealt with or just tolerated. There are very few that argue that total economic liberalism and the outsourcing of all state functions to transaction-based individual actors will result in a perpetual state of universal bliss.

Unlike for socialists, where the view of the 'socialist utopia' is still common. To repeat, the view that "Today we have unhappiness due to X, but unhappiness due to X wouldn't exist in a socialist society" for ALL values of X except death and the Sun going supernova. Try it yourself - ask socialists what problems that lead to unhappiness a socialist society would have to deal with, and count how many times they say "I guess people would just have to bear those problems".

To reiterate, this is a case where it's (seemingly identical) claim against claim, and only personal experience can decide what is correct. I therefore appeal to people to ask socialists and capitalists both to describe problems that would exist in their ideal societies, and judge them from the credibility of their replies.

Similarly, untruths about capitalism cannot be accepted even in the most private corners.

Emphathically disagree, again. Capitalist states do not conduct a seek-and-destroy policy against thoughts that run counter to them - or if they do, they have obviously not succeded. If you sit in your house and tell your family members that "capitalism is bad", most capitalists would not give a flying f. On the other hand, if you sit in your house and tell your family members that "communism is bad" in any of the world's current or historic communist or strongly socialist states, the mentality will be "search and destroy the untruths".

Because socialists feel socialism/communism depends on brotherly groups consisting of individuals with the right mentality, it's extremely important to them that everyone has the right mentality. Capitalists with a transaction-oriented view should have no similar problems, because a poor world view simply leads to the individual being worse off.

Re:On the other hand...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is where I empathically disagree. Capitalists have generally been very good at recognising that problems will exist in capitalist societies, and come up with ways that those problems must either be dealt with or just tolerated.

Likewise, socialists have generally been very good at recognizing that the government can't and shouldn't be everything to everyone. Even China has far more economic freedom than, say, the USSR did. China is full of private businesses and private property.

There are very few that argue that total economic liberalism and the outsourcing of all state functions to transaction-based individual actors will result in a perpetual state of universal bliss.

Their numbers may be few, but they're very vocal on the internet (and especially this site).

If you broaden the scope a bit, however, their numbers get huge. For example, there are plenty of elected Republicans who would love to abolish welfare, Medicare, Social Security, the Department of Education, and the EPA, and let private businesses pick up the slack.

Unlike for socialists, where the view of the 'socialist utopia' is still common. To repeat, the view that "Today we have unhappiness due to X, but unhappiness due to X wouldn't exist in a socialist society" for ALL values of X except death and the Sun going supernova. Try it yourself - ask socialists what problems that lead to unhappiness a socialist society would have to deal with, and count how many times they say "I guess people would just have to bear those problems".

The view of the "libertarian utopia" is quite common as well... certainly more common than the "socialist utopia", at least in my experience. When was the last time you actually heard someone advocate an end to private property?

Capitalist states do not conduct a seek-and-destroy policy against thoughts that run counter to them - or if they do, they have obviously not succeded.

That's only because the ideal "state" in the minds of free market fundamentalists is not a state at all, it's anarchy. There is no central authority with the power to seek and destroy thoughts.

Individual libertarian crackpots, however, certainly do react vigorously to contrary thought: witness the barely-coded calls for violent revolution that have sprung up lately in response to Barack Obama's policies, in the name of protecting against "socialism". Any industry regulations or government spending are treated as a slippery slope to Soviet rule. The philosophy does not allow for the possibility that the government has any business telling private industry or individuals what to do, and if you say it does, they consider you no better than Stalin or Hitler.

Very weird country

[jhoegl]

For a country that contains 1/6th the world population, urban sprawl, and laws to reduce their population this is weird.

Not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the Evil Empire, but also not a model of government that I want my country to follow.

I witnessed the ham-fisted propaganda exercise that the Chinese government attempted in Australia when the 2008 Olympic torch went through the country. It left me with no doubt that the Chinese government will go to great lengths to protect and promote its agenda (and that Chinese overseas students are its foot soldiers).

It also left me with little doubt that the Chinese government will not hesitate to extend its influence, if given the opportunity. I've got no problem if the Chinese want to live under their current government, but China's government becomes and Evil Empire to me when it attempts the type of invasion of my country that it attempted in 2008.

Itsa Dumb Chinese Gov't Theory

[Tablizer]

I agree. Don't jail people for a speculative theory. If they have solid proof it "undermines women", then you have a semi-case. But right now it's merely arm-chair guesses from up on top.

If China really wants to help women, then do something about the "last name" problem where sons are "valued" more because they carry the family last name when married. That's a huge and real stigma problem.

And if you jail everybody for porn, then you waste resources that could be spent on real crimes.
       

Re:Itsa Dumb Chinese Gov't Theory

[trytoguess]

For better or for worse though, it sounds very similar to the reason we ban child porn. They're coerced into doing the deed, they must be put on a pedestal, etc.

Re:Itsa Dumb Chinese Gov't Theory

[icegreentea]

*cough* war on drugs.

Re:Itsa Dumb Chinese Gov't Theory

[Tablizer]

Governments are good at cooking up bogymen.

Re:Itsa Dumb Chinese Gov't Theory

[Donkey_Hotey]

*cough* war on drugs.

Nasty little cough you got there...maybe you should lay off the pot.

Insightful? what?

[bussdriver]

So now we define words based on what the crackpots think they mean?

Parent is using a straw man fallacy: setting up a false premise that is easy to knock down with the subsequent argument; banking on others to accept the false premise.

Patriotism and Nationalism (2 different things) often suffer from attempted hijacking by crackpots seeking to redefine them.
For example, in the USA socialism has been misunderstood for over a generation and the crackpot definition is currently mainstream. "Keep the government out of my medicare!" etc.

Besides, this left/right paradigm is for simpletons and the poor reasoning that results aids the political parties. So, the misunderstanding is perpetuated. In addition, many people are willfully ignorant when it comes to politics (there is no stigma of shame like there is with illiteracy.) A far more realistic model is TWO DIMENSIONAL: left/right + top/bottom. Check it out: http://politicalcompass.org/

I reiterate:
So now we define words based on what the crackpots think they mean?

Re:Insightful? what?

[Anonymous Coward]

So now we define words based on what the crackpots think they mean?

No, we reject and ridicule the definitions of crackpots, of which there are many. Please write a good one if you can.

Parent is using a straw man fallacy: setting up a false premise that is easy to knock down with the subsequent argument; banking on others to accept the false premise.

It is not entirely clear which premise you think you are referring to. Is it that GP is an idiot? That socialists generally are totalitarian-perfectionist? That socialists generally define socialism as 'anything good'?

If it is the latter - this is an extremely common occurence, and an extremely common tendency amongst socialists, to claim that any given problem would not exist in a socialist/marxist state. This is because socialism to them represents an utopian dream, and in an utopia there are no problems, hence problems must be hand-waved away. Even Marx hand-waved idiotically away a human tendency to desire material wealth, by stating that people brought up under Communist principles would cease to desire material goods, thereby wizarding away the eternally recurring source of tension that happens when people see things they are unable to appropriate for themselves. The concept of "re-education" has been central to every communist state in history, and there is a good reason for that.

Of course, that this utopist view is common amongst socialists is just my claim, and you can easily state that you disagree. The litmus test is for every reader to challenge socialists, by asking them: "Which problems would there be in a socialist and a communist society that will always lead to unhappiness?" Because utopian crackpottery and idiocy is endemic in the ranks of socialists, the only things they will be able to say are things like "illness which the greatly increased rate of research has been yet unable to eradicate" and "love". Economic problems? Corruption? Will never be mentioned.

This is very much unlike capitalists, where the vast majority of adherents are still able to enunciate problems that exist in a model capitalist society. Sometimes I feel bad that they are, because it just shows that socialists have been too culturally powerful to have their endemic idiocy forcibly eradicated through ridicule and harassment, as capitalists have.

All of this is being very flexible about what socialism really involves, which to Marx and a number of thinkers was simply an in-step stage on the steady way to Communism, but have to others taken on a meaning on its own (which still looks very much like communism, and in my view is simply a mental defense to preserve the utopist dream versus the painful backdrop of the Soviet).

"Besides, this left/right paradigm is for simpletons and the poor reasoning that results aids the political parties."

The political compass is better, but not exactly realistic. What about activists who view themselves as fighting against opposite-sided authoritarianism in favour of their-sided liberalism, but with the view that such a fight can only be won by regimentation and communal organisation? Does endemic CCTV in a liberal economy imply authoritarianism or liberalism? How would a modern, western government in which the acceptability of political views was extremely important in deciding who gets comfortable and well-funded public sector jobs, hence by implication creating an extremely poor ground for the opposition, compare with a government where this isn't the case? Or perhaps restated, how does various gradients of "The only thing we will not tolerate is intolerance which will be crushed" place a society on the compass?

Re:Insightful? what?

[Anonymous Coward]

google Yuri Bezmenov to get an idea of where this misunderstanding comes from.

the only way the 'right left' dichotomy makes sense is: extreme right = no government, total anarchy. extreme left = total government control. then you have to account for ones beliefs about the proper way to behave socially.

so it comes down to two qustions that are orthoganal: "how should people act in society? (is porn acceptable? drug use? sexual promiscuity? party all night long or get up early and work? who's job is it to take care of you, yours or everyones?) and "what should the government do about it? (independent of if you approve of porn, should it be legal? independent of if you approve of drug use, should it be legal? should monogomy be legally enforced? what about promiscuity? do we tax the rich to support the poor, or does everyone have to support themselves?).

i don't think politicalcompass.org gets it quite right. they seem to get some of each question in the other and i don't think in their system each axis is truly independent.

wether or not we cal it 'right and left' isn't really important, but i really can't see another way to arrange things to cover everything.

the political spectrum becomes a triangle. the far right, being total anarchy, has to be a single point. you can't have different types of non-government, so regardless of other beliefs, if you have no government, politically it's the same. where on the far left where you have governments with total control you can have a wide variety of actual systems, from fascism to communism.

in fact to be perfect you'd probably have to ad a 3'd axis for fiscal policy.

anyways, this is the only way i can make the 'right/left' dichotomy make any sense. if anyone wants to tell you how to live your life, they're at least somewhat towards the left.

I don't understand

[Anonymous Coward]

ASCII was created for Internet porn because EBCDIC was too suggestive, right?

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[drinkypoo]

We don't ban McDonald's because some folks don't eat anything else and hurt themselves in doing so.

You don't ban McDonald's, because that would be discriminatory. You ban trans fats, or perhaps, sub-grade beef. You make it unprofitable to poison the citizenry for money.

quickly somone explain how...

[timmarhy]

... the USA is just as bad!!

Re:quickly somone explain how...

[IrquiM]

No need - it's self-explanatory!

That's all they found?

[tubeguy]

In China? Out of 1.3 billion people? They have some catching up to do....

In another wording

[unity100]

china arrests people for pursuing what nature's evolution developed for hominoid monkeys to make love to each other and reproduce.

its appalling that they didnt ban genders already.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Libertarian crackpots are just as guilty. Whoever modded the parent down was probably one of them!

Ask them why the USA's free market in health insurance sucks so much and they'll say "it's just not free ENOUGH". Even though every country with health insurance that WORKS has way MORE government involvement.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[bnenning]

Ask them why the USA's free market in health insurance

Health insurance is not remotely a free market. Hardly anyone pays directly for their treatment so there are no pricing signals, yet we allow providers to charge whatever they want. We've somehow managed to combine the worst aspects of capitalism and socialism without the benefits of either.

We should decouple health insurance from employers (another idiocy brought to you by government intervention), encourage people to buy high deductible catastrophic insurance policies and pay for routine or inexpensive care out of pocket, and subsidize those who can't afford a reasonable level of care. If that makes me a libertarian crackpot, so be it.

Even though every country with health insurance that WORKS has way MORE government involvement.

Every other significant country has more government involvement in general. And the US has Apple, Intel, and Google. I don't believe these facts are unrelated.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Health insurance is not remotely a free market.

Thanks for proving the GP's point. The market is failing, so it must not be free enough! A truly free market would work perfectly, because that's the definition of a free market!

Hardly anyone pays directly for their treatment so there are no pricing signals, yet we allow providers to charge whatever they want.

This is rubbish.

First, even though most people get health insurance from their employers, that doesn't mean there are no pricing signals. Employers pay for that insurance, so they have an incentive to shop around (just like they do for rent, office supplies, and other types of insurance). Go ahead, ask your HR department how they picked out your health insurance options: the answer won't be "we called the first insurer in the yellow pages and said 'give us the works, money is no object'".

Second, the individual insurance market, where approximately 30 million people pay directly for their own insurance, is a fucking disaster! It's much, much worse than employer-provided health insurance. You'll pay through the nose if you want a deductible lower than four figures, and you'll have a hard time finding any insurance that covers more than 80% of your costs or doesn't have an annual/lifetime cap low enough to burn through if you get a serious illness. If you have preexisting conditions, you'll be lucky to get insurance at all. And even if you have insurance, you'll be lucky to keep it for long once you start filing claims.

But that must be because the market just isn't free enough, right? Maybe if we just gave insurers even more free rein to charge whatever they like, offer whatever coverage they like, and reject customers for any reason at all, the problems would magically go away!

Every other significant country has more government involvement in general. And the US has Apple, Intel, and Google. I don't believe these facts are unrelated.

In other words, you care more about playing host to large companies than about human quality of life. So what if other countries have longer lifespans, lower infant mortality, more vacation, less stress... they "only" have companies like Nokia, ARM, Sony, Nintendo, Toyota, Siemens, Royal Dutch/Shell Group, etc.

Oh, and since this is Slashdot, let's not forget Linux.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

We should ... encourage people to buy high deductible catastrophic insurance policies

Where can I find one of those? Insurance is about eliminating risk. With car insurance, I know that if I pay $X a month, my cost if someone damages my car will be limited to $Y. With homeowner's insurance, I know that if I pay $X a month, my cost in a fire or robbery will be limited to $Y. So where can I find health insurance that works that way?

No insurance plan on the market works that way. Suppose you get sick and spend a few days in the hospital, which costs $10,000. Not only will you pay your deductible (say, $1500), but you'll also pay a big chunk of the remaining costs (say, another $2125). It's not insurance at all, it's just an expensive discount program!

and pay for routine or inexpensive care out of pocket

"Inexpensive" care? There is no such thing, besides what you get at the grocery store (Band-Aids and Tylenol). Even the most basic office visit is pricey enough to make the average person hesitant to get a potential illness checked out - which is a bad thing. "My cough has gotten worse, I should really go to the doctor... but there's only a little blood, and he'd charge me $200... I'll just wait a couple weeks until I get paid."

That's a great way to drive costs up: even more people will wait until their minor problem becomes an emergency, hoping that it'll go away on its own for free.

If that makes me a libertarian crackpot, so be it.

Yes, it does. Making people weigh their health against the marginal cost of medical care is a libertarian crackpot idea. That might work for flat screen TVs, but being alive and healthy is not a luxury.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you honestly believe with the types of politicians we have in the US, that a government run health care system in the US works? I don't.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[MartinSchou]

Obviously he has watched so much porn, he is now unable to make a proper argument.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt this will outrage many here given the demographic is *slanted* towards the male

I see what you did there.

hahaha yea ha ha ha

[unity100]

'socialist crackpots'. this is the first phrase in your post. it renders your post SO credible and respectable that it goes beyond calculation.

and in addition, there is the ignorance that renders much respectability to your post. without knowing any other country other than your own america, which you believe that the best country on earth because YOU WERE TOLD IT TO BE SO, you are totally devoid of any knowledge about how europe has been living under left governments in the majority of the last 60 years, and what kind of freedom and standard of living they attained.

let me tell you what hit the constitutional court in sweden just a few months ago, and resolved as a nationwide issue ; it was decided that it was inalienable right of swedish women to be topless on beaches and pools, and noone could force them to cover their breasts. not insurance. not healthcare. not freedom of speech. not any wrongdoing by government people. this was one of the biggest recent issues in sweden. the freedom of speech and choice you think you have in your country is like bread and butter there.

and in the place you put out as a bad example, norway, which went far out to say that state does better raising children than their parents, is another show of ignorance. children have no worries there. it doesnt matter whether they are raised or not even. work, standard of living, freedoms are guaranteed. yet, in your america, where parents raise their children oh so properly, you have millions of radicals raising millions of kids estranged from the society, in a spectrum ranging from mild racist to mormon.

excuse me, but mr. mccarthy, your time has passed. success of european countries and the recent unimaginable SCAM that your corporate world has pulled off globally, shred all credibility to the 'america is best place to be' bullshit we have been feeding by arrogant americans all around the world. now the wise ones do not even open their mouths to utter any similar shit, only you right wing nutjobs remain blabbering the same 50 year old tune.

Re:hahaha yea ha ha ha

[Anonymous Coward]

'socialist crackpots'. this is the first phrase in your post. it renders your post SO credible and respectable that it goes beyond calculation..... without knowing any other country other than your own america, which you believe that the best country on earth because YOU WERE TOLD IT TO BE SO, you are totally devoid of any knowledge about how europe..... excuse me, but mr. mccarthy, your time has passed. success of european countries and the recent unimaginable SCAM that your corporate world has pulled off...

I bow to your credibility and respectability. Oh wait, I am actually European and have never lived in the US. This does not mark you as an idiot AT ALL, because as a liberal, progressive and educated European you could never be a judgemental and ignorant stereotyper who jump quickly to conclusions about people based on their country of origin. Certainly not if they were African anyway, but maybe American?

it was decided that it was inalienable right of swedish women to be topless on beaches and pools ... this was one of the biggest recent issues in sweden.

I thought it was how the Sweden Democrats, a self-described nationalist (in the National-Socialist Hitlerian sense) party who believes that cultures should belong to a single country, got 7.4% of the poll votes, up from 4.9% 3 months ago and 0 some time before that.

Or how the racist Salem march got delayed by the police because they had to root out the storage crate of metal batons that progressive liberals had stored in the forest, together with a stack of gas masks to supplement their black scarf face covers.

Of course, as Swedes the leader of your biggest party is Mona Sahlin, who has said some great things about your country: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mona_Sahlin

[Norway] is another show of ignorance. children have no worries there. it doesnt matter whether they are raised or not even. work,

Funny, I remember a case where four 15-year old girls beat up a 14-year old girl they had bullied from some time and locked her in a shed, then approached an immigrant with finger language to make him an offer, after which he followed them to the shed and raped the girl and paid the four 200 NOK for their helpful service as agreed. And where a young Norwegian girl in an immigrant neighbourhood told about how she wished she was still a virgin, so that she wouldn't be bullied as much and seen as a worthless and dirty whore by those she lived amongst. Of course, since there are no problems in Scandinavia, these must be stories I have made up just to be silly. Please, tell me how they are all lies about the great and safe Scandinavian countries.

and the recent unimaginable SCAM that your corporate world has pulled off globally,

Was it America that screwed over the Swedish governments boosting government salaries to the level that could only be sustained in a credit bubble? Was it America that forced you to give crazy credits to the Baltics? And of course, states that do not believe in America at all, like Venezuela, have done much better out of this, or? The problem with having a lot of rage but locating the sources of problems in the wrong places is that after you destroy those sources you still have the problems.

excuse me, but mr. mccarthy, your time has passed. success of european countries

Don't you think I wish this more than anything? If a country decides to move in a socialist direction, and does so without violating the human rights of individuals when doing so (including the human right that is property rights), and they all become better off in the end and live happily, do you think I wish death and plague upon them? Apparently that is truly your view of your evil political opponents which you fight in all your Good Fury.

The problem is that I don't think this actually works, because the process is bad (cue Chavez' love for journalis

Re:hahaha yea ha ha ha

[unity100]

I bow to your credibility and respectability. Oh wait, I am actually European and have never lived in the US. This does not mark you as an idiot AT ALL, because as a liberal, progressive and educated European you could never be a judgemental and ignorant stereotyper who jump quickly to conclusions about people based on their country of origin. Certainly not if they were African anyway, but maybe American?

if you dont want to be taken as a right wing nutjob american, DONT talk like one.

I thought it was how the Sweden Democrats, a self-described nationalist (in the National-Socialist Hitlerian sense) party who believes that cultures should belong to a single country, got 7.4% of the poll votes, up from 4.9% 3 months ago and 0 some time before that.Or how the racist Salem march got delayed by the police because they had to root out the storage crate of metal batons that progressive liberals had stored in the forest, together with a stack of gas masks to supplement their black scarf face covers.
Of course, as Swedes the leader of your biggest party is Mona Sahlin, who has said some great things about your country: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mona_Sahlin

yea, this small outstanding example here, this small outstanding example there. if you take that route, it will take days for me to list the infrigements on freedoms and liberties that has happened in america in that sense, and in many other senses as well. its the end result, and the average that matters.

Funny, I remember a case where four 15-year old girls beat up a 14-year old girl they had bullied from some time and locked her in a shed, then approached an immigrant with finger language to make him an offer, after which he followed them to the shed and raped the girl and paid the four 200 NOK for their helpful service as agreed. And where a young Norwegian girl in an immigrant neighbourhood told about how she wished she was still a virgin, so that she wouldn't be bullied as much and seen as a worthless and dirty whore by those she lived amongst. Of course, since there are no problems in Scandinavia, these must be stories I have made up just to be silly. Please, tell me how they are all lies about the great and safe Scandinavian countries.

funny. i thought exceptions did not make a rule, but apparently, in your skewed reality, they do. i also thought psychopaths and sociopaths existed in every single fucking country regardless of its level, but, apparently, scandinavian countries are exempt from this reality of our world.

please make up such 500 stories that happened in the last year, and you will have your point.

Was it America that screwed over the Swedish governments boosting government salaries to the level that could only be sustained in a credit bubble? Was it America that forced you to give crazy credits to the Baltics? And of course, states that do not believe in America at all, like Venezuela, have done much better out of this, or? The problem with having a lot of rage but locating the sources of problems in the wrong places is that after you destroy those sources you still have the problems.

yea, it was america. if you are under the delusion that it wasnt, take up some reading and learn some reelpolitik and economics. every single fucking individual trusted america and its laws and its corporate world, because there was NO REASON to not trust that a first world country would allow blatant, global scale scam to happen. everyone jumped on the bandwagon, not excluding china, britain, switzerland, for, then the deal looked LEGIT. every single fucking financial institution who could jump on the bandwagon did, BECAUSE IF YOU DIDNT DO IT YOU WOULD BE LEFT FAR BEHIND. that is the nature of business and economics. if you dont jump on a proper, legitimate trend that is occurring, you just vanish from the market. and because everyone thought a whole cou

Re:hahaha yea ha ha ha

[Anonymous Coward]

if you dont want to be taken as a right wing nutjob american, DONT talk like one.

The only way I could really respond to this would be to call you a Little Hitlerian Maoist who has drilled a little hole in his little red book to enjoy every night. But you've exhausted your quota of attention.

To be frank, it makes me happy to see Sweden being steadily on the path to being fucked, because so many Swedes are assholes, and it's the only way (although I guess even that won't be sufficient and they will blame sabotage and external enemies - which you do, congrats) for them to realise how idiotic their policies have been.

Re:hahaha yea ha ha ha

[unity100]

The only way I could really respond to this would be to call you a Little Hitlerian Maoist who has drilled a little hole in his little red book to enjoy every night. But you've exhausted your quota of attention.

whooaaaaaa hahahaha. now now.

To be frank, it makes me happy to see Sweden being steadily on the path to being fucked, because so many Swedes are assholes, and it's the only way (although I guess even that won't be sufficient and they will blame sabotage and external enemies - which you do, congrats) for them to realise how idiotic their policies have been.

apparently you are taking me as a swede. which further signifies how skewed your understanding and viewpoint are. for, im not a swede. im not near sweden either. im not even in europe in practice either. im in turkey, and hence looking from an unbiased, remote viewpoint.

but, i will just leave you to drivel in your right wing kookery. audieu.

It is ironic that the parent was modded troll

[unity100]

whereas its parent, which is a comment that stands exactly on the same distance to the right of the spectrum, is modded insightful.

since both comments employ the same approaches but from the other side, this only implies that the moron who used the mod point on the parent has modded it down with political bias. appalling to see such low quality brains exist among us.

Re:It is ironic that the parent was modded troll

[Anonymous Coward]

and yet you have similar biases, just with computer software!

Where are all the links???

[Anonymous Coward]

How are we supposed to judge the issue without links to research the subject?

It's not China's fault they are on top, face it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen to what you said:

It amazes me at some of the stupidity of my own "tribe" here in the U.S.A. (sometimes), in fact.

I don't think many of them realize that those folks in China have held onto their lands as a nation for 5,000++ yrs., & had sciences and technology that was fairly impressive whilst we still lived in caves!

They're nobody to disrespect, or, to take lightly. Only fools do that... & I am actually sorry to say this, but, the U.S.A.? Has plenty of fools (like any nation really).

APK

P.S.=> Besides, look @ the Chinese lately: They're beating our asses into the dirt, and on MANY grounds... perhaps, rightfully so, but I think they even realize it's NOT us "regular folks" @ fault in the U.S.A., but rather our "leaders" ("KoRpOrAtE AmErIkA") really.

They KNEW & took advantage of STUPID GREEDY MORONS @ THE WHEEL (corporate scumbags) HERE IN THE USA, WHO REALLY "MAKE THE LAWS HERE", instead of the regular people doing it - they just took advantage of their stupidity, & look who's on top now? China.

Mainly due to the greedy swine like Bernie Madoff & our "fiat money" based "FEDERAL RESERVE BANKING SYSTEM" (which is ANYTHING BUT FEDERAL mind you - it's a consortium of bankers, only) via the hedgefund scandal + other investments in Chinese workers monies. Those dolts GOT PLAYED by a far wiser, & far smarter + older more mature culture... like idiots who think they are "clever" usually do in the end.

BUT, this is what we get, when we hire on "MBA's", instead of "hiring from within the ranks" to lead our corporations.

It makes me sad actually: The U.S.A. has truly intelligent & skilled people, but instead? Well, we get "frat boys" & asskissers who "belong to the right party" &/or "Clique", who 'take over', & are ANYTHING but qualified to do so (or, do the results of this last decade prove me wrong? Don't think so)... apk

I wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if removing access to porn and such material would lead to a worse behaving society, as the only outlet for the "human urge" is physically with another person or persons as oppose to spanking the monkey at a computer screen/magazine etc.

Re:I wonder

[jack2000]

You don't have to wonder, I'll tell you. Some of the worst perversions arise from having people be denied their most basic of sexual desires.

They will go to great lengths and intricate ways to find NEW ways to pleasure themselves, and all that just to circumvent your little rules and regulations.

Congratulations China you will be the next Japan of pornography!

Can we *PLEASE* have an intelligent discussion

[microbox]

Socialist crackpots have defined socialism and communism as good, hence by definition nothing bad is part of it.

The right-wing has branded socialism as fundamentally bad, and anything remotely not lassez-faire as a left-wing "crackpot" idiocy.

You then went on to completely mischaracterize moral individualism. Take a course in ethics or social psychology. Might add some substance to your arguments.

Can we *PLEASE* have an intelligent discussion?

Britain: 5,394 arrested in Internet song crackdown

[David Gerard]

WHITEHALL, Beijing, Friday (NTN) — British police arrested thousands in the Digital Britain drive against Internet file sharing throughout 2009, officials said, which critics say is being used to tighten overall censorship.

The British government has run a highly publicized campaign, “Digital Britain,” against what officials said were banned file sharing of Lily Allen songs, overwhelming the country’s Internet and “threatening the emotional health of children.”

Lord Mandelson said late on Thursday that the crackdown on Internet file sharing had brought 5,394 arrests and 4,186 criminal case investigations in 2009. The announcement on the Digital Britain website said the drive would deepen in 2010. Police would “intensify punishments for Internet operations that violate laws and regulations. Strengthen monitoring of information,” it urged, “Press Internet service providers to put in place preventive technology.”

The ministry did not say how many of the 5,394 suspects arrested were later charged, released or prosecuted. The anti-file sharing drive has also netted many sites with politically sensitive or even simply user-generated content, in what some see as an effort by the government to reassert control over new media. The ruling Labour Party worries the Internet could become a dangerous conduit for threatening images and ideas.

Britain has banned a number of popular websites and Internet services, including Wikipedia. NewsTechnica passed without comment, however.

and the UK too...

[mdwh2]

Indeed. And here in the UK, we've had a year of possession of so-called "extreme" porn being criminalised, which is already being used for as ludicrous cases as joke Photoshopped images of someone having sex with a tiger.

It also reminds me of a common claim regarding criticism of porn crackdowns: "Why are you whining about porn; in China they have real censorship about political things, that's what real censorship is like", they cry. Stories like this show that different kinds of censorship - whether moral or political - are two sides of the same coin. They all have the same effect of ruining people's lives, over material that the state wants to banish.

and Mao?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well maybe they should have followed what Mao was doing...
Sex is well deep in Chinese mentality, one of the most famous and highly regarded book is about sex ( well actually porn ) : Jin Ping Mei regarded as the fifth classical novel.
Classic Chinese literacy have a few famous "porn books" and some of them are :|
In a recent study, it seems that 40% ( yes forty percent ) cheated their husband.

And finally what about Shu Qi? It's amusing to know in what kind of movies she started haha...

It's all back to the original "Chinese problem", with sex, it's easy to lose face.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[mdwh2]

More than a burden of passing laws, policing them, and locking up productive members of society? Not to mention that taking away someone's liberty because they might be more of a burden is an appalling idea. Far better just to tax it, anyway.

The system is entirely inconsistent anyway: cannabis and ectasy get banned, whilst far more harmful drugs like alcohol are legal. McDonald's isn't banned, as the OP pointed out. Brainwashing children with religion is okay (indeed in some countries like the UK, a legal requirement). Things like porn get criminalised even for adults, despite no evidence of harm.

By "heavily sanctioned" you mean "not banned" (no one would have a problem with regulation - you can't count tobacco as a "banned" drug; it's legal!)

even with porn, consumption creates demand that will be fulfiled by pornographers

And how on earth is that bad? You still have to show that the porn is bad in the first place.

China's Prisons Getting Full?

[abarrow]

You know, every few days we get another story from China of some crackdown or another, in which "thousands were arrested". Pretty soon they'll just have to put up a big wall that you can see from space to keep everyone in. ..no, wait.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[gangien]

And we should stop the stupid ban on drugs because it doesn't work, makes the problem worse, and who the hell are you to tell me what i can or cannot do with my own body. So yes, we have a precedent, and it doesn't work.

It's not about porn, it's about censorship

[walterbyrd]

It is not just porn that China is censoring.

January 1, 2010:
China: Reaffirms Plans to "Purify" the Internet

Says crackdown on online pornography is part of overall effort to preserve "national long-term stability," build a "harmonious socialist society," and prevent the "poisoning of young people's physical and mental health," but most likely is all about strengthening its grip on the what could be a dangerous conduit for threatening images and ideas.

As part of that effort it says that it intends to create a "blacklist" that will provide "timely information about foreign propaganda, radio and television, publishing and other areas for their disposal."

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/87485/china-reaffirms-plans-to-purify-the-internet/

There are no ways to arrive at a "moral code"

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no god and such moral code as exists is purely the common desire of the majority of the wilful.

If there were more paedophiles than not, then I can assure you the "moral code" would shift, and probably not in a direction which would appeal to you - assuming of course that you are not a paedophile.

I don't like the idea of dying. That is just hard wired into my brain (Darwin's theories explain why that is likely to be so) - as it is in most people's. So obviously we, who don't like the idea of dying, gang together to impose our "moral code".

Ethics 101 is taught by people in whose interest it is to have accepted that their preferences are somehow a part of the universal physics of existence.

There is no god. Just us and competition to impose the rules we favour.

Re:There are no ways to arrive at a "moral code"

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly, you never took Ethics 101. Go back to college and post again when you've finished your education. kthxbye

That's one way to lick porn

[Greg Hullender]

In America, of course, they'd all get off, but apparently you can't pull that in China.

--Greg (Or maybe Alabama) :-)

Re:Britain: 5,394 arrested in Internet song crackd

[prowest]

thank you http://prowest.ua/

For The Children(tm)

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God for the Godless Chinese Government and their concern For The Children(tm).

Sex, on film? More Chinese intellectual theft!

[ibsteve2u]

I distinctly remember when America invented sex - I was 14, and it was under the grape arbor in my backyard...

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Belial6]

"Pink Slime"??? The sub-grade beef article you link to sounds very much like the known dangers of DHMO. It is important that the government start banning these terrible substances. Heck, I wouldn't doubt it if researchers even found DHMO IN the pink slime.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[Anonymous Coward]

you become less naive - a different AC. ^.^

it's just you

[Anonymous Coward]

the world isn't going downhill. it's been in a festering toilet for some time, just waiting for someone brave enough to flush.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[drinkypoo]

You think you're funny, but I used to live with Craig J. who maintained what may have been the first anti-DHMO webpage on the internet, so I am well-versed in its many hazards.

Re:The Less Porn the Better

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

If we were truly honest about porn it would come with a mental health warning.

I turned on the television a few nights ago and watched Clint Eastwood beat three men unconscious with a axe butt and then casually remark that "you can't beat a good piece of hickory". Should that have come with a mental health warning too?

"I am a politician -- I have WON!"

[TangoMargarine]

Just because someone is a politician doesn't mean people respect them. As evidence, I call on the 4 articles on the front page here every day denouncing some boneheaded law that is under consideration.

And yes, before you say it, I know Slashdot does not have one unified opinion, it's a collection of a bazillion individuals, blah blah blah...

So, you hand wave on relativism?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Go back and retake Ethics 101 and learn that there are many, many ways to arrive at a more or less workable "moral code".

None of which are inherently any better than any of the others...

It seems chinese people have...

[Anonymous Coward]

...only heard of lesbian porn. Someone should tell them, that heterosexual and gay porn exists as well.

I don't know how it is in the USA, but in Europe people have done everything, from pirating satellite tv channels and building their own pirate cards and decodifiers in undercover "factories" to achieving internet flatrates without traffic limit, only for the sake of watching "free" football and porn. They could make it ilegal here, but they won't ever stop it.

I actually think that they should make retransmiting free football and free porn ilegall. People won't move from their couches for more civil rights or against corruption, but if you cut them the free porn and football, they will stand up immediately and start figuring out a way to take it back. Imagine all the advancements in security and technology that we would be able to achieve if we do that. And also the atributes of self-learning, we-belong-together feeling, teamwork, selfachievement (when you are able to watch porn for a week before they burn all the pirates cards in a superbowl weekend...) and culture that we would instaurate in our citizens. People say that faith move mountains. I've never seen faith doing that, but i've seen people working 30 hours without sleep for free the day before a champions legue final in order to get the pirated satelite cards working again... If you take into account that buying the match in prepaid tv costed around 10$, and that one hour of these people "RealWorld work" costs way more, that you see what i mean.

Threatening the emotional health of children?

[Draele]

I see where they're coming from, but doesn't it seem like the very children they're trying to protect from this stuff will now have no choice but to make it themselves if they desire to see it? Or are they just going to crack down on that by banning webcams, cell phones, cameras, camcorders, paper, writing impliments, and anything else that might be theoretically used to scar our childrens' minds?

Control on the internet

[gaoming1978]

As a native Chinese, I really don't think that the reason to crackdown on online pornography is for the health of the children. The internet seems to be the only media where the voice of criticism on the Chinese govenment could be heard, since the newspaper and T.V. station are firmly controlled by the Communist Party of China. The discussion on the social affairs on the internet may have some pressure on the government. Although the morality of the Chinese tradition mertis the virginity of Woman, the openings for 30 years changed the tradition thoughts very much. Currently, it was not regraded as a merit in lots area in China. I agree that opinion the reason is of strengthing the control on the internet in China.