Slashdot Mirror
Avatar Soars Into $1-Billion Territory
Suki I writes " Avatar soars into $1-billion territory. 'Strong foreign ticket sales help make the science-fiction movie the fifth in history to pass the watermark. ... One of the riskiest movies of all times is now officially one of the most successful at the box office. When Avatar opened, its solid but far from stellar results left 20th Century Fox uncertain about whether the $430 million that it and two financing partners had invested to produce and market the 3-D film would pay off.'" Given that the big alternatives were Sherlock Holmes or Alvin & the Chipmunks, I think the winner was clear.
Am I the only one?
And yet Sherlock Holmes and the Chipmunks are both more original than Avatar. Its just a very old story with a few pretty visuals.
Instead of spending $430million making one bloated FX crap-test they could have made 10 regular films. Even if only one of those was
really good it would beat a poor film that has been hidden by obscene overspending on visuals.
Hey, at least Cameron didn't make a Titanic sequel.
"Titanic II: Revenge of the Sunken," perhaps.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
I'd like to see a director's cut when this goes to DVD. I know Cameron had an extremely rich back story, and most of it didn't make the cut to get into the movie, since it weighed in at 2 hours 40 minutes long. I also think it would help flesh out a story that was somewhat bland. Ah, who am I kidding? I wanna see more bad-ass CGI explosions. Screw the plot, bring on the blue alien sex.
I bring nothing to the table.
I'd be interested to see what proportion of this film's takings were from repeat viewings, and how this figure compares with other blockbusters. Avatar is one of very few films that I have paid to see more than once at the cinema, and it's the first time that I'm doing this simply because I wanted to see the film again (as opposed to being asked to go with someone else who wanted to see it). In 3D IMAX, it really is an impressive spectacle.
Saw it in 3D at the Imax. I think that this movie is visually appealing, and that's what it was made for. You're not supposed to actually pay attention to the story; it's a mix of Dances with Wolves and Fern Gully (and potentially about 30 other movies in which this concept of gung-ho-soldier-meets-and-loves-the-natives has been done to death), although it does strike chords with a few present day "situations". The main appeal is the graphics, the atmosphere, surroundings and facial expressions of the macrosmurfs.
Part of the hype was that Cameron spent 8 bazillion years working on this movie and that's another thing that spoils it, you expect something great and wonderful and almost Star Wars like, but you get another popcorn movie, albeit an expensive one. With blue people.
Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
Sherlock Holmes is a solid movie with good acting and an interesting take on the Holmes story line. It'll probably evolve into an interesting series of movies. Alvin and the Chipmunks is well made mindless children's fare. For the 4-8 age group love it and it is doing extremely well in the box office. Avatar on the other hand is a visually stunning movie, but the noble savage storyline is strait from the 70's. It is not a bad movie by any stretch, but without the special effect advancement, would this movie garner any attention? Will Avatar's real legacy be laying the groundwork for better integrated CGI rather than the story told?
The 3D aspect and the CG effects were worth every penny that I spent on a ticket.
The plot is just a barely acceptable excuse for the effects, but since it was so well executed I don't really mind.
Watch this film in 3D Imax or not at all IMHO.
The "plot." Pretty much the same: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104254/
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I feel as though I am the only one not drinking from the cool-aid on this one. The story line, apart from the apparently necessary political message, is nothing more than a rehash of a million other stories. From the noble savage to the walking armor suit so reminiscent of the suit that worn in the Aliens finale by Sigourney Weaver, this story was a soup of elements found in many other stories and movies. Were this story presented as a book, without James Cameron's name, it would have been rejected outright.
The only creative elements that exist in this movie were the special effects and associated artistry, which made the movie worth watching. They were outstanding.
Finally, why do entertainers continue to feel that they have to present their beliefs within a movie. If I want to be preached at or listen to political messages, I will go to church or read a newspaper/book. I do not want to see it in movies or hear it at concerts.
And that was to just not go to the movies. This was the option I chose.
Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
I just came home from seeing Avatar in 3D and I must say it rivals Watchmen in sheer visual splendor. The story is a bit predictable, but I didnt really think about that until afterwards because I was so immersed in this beautiful world Cameron has created. It could have used a better soundtrack but then it would have been a completely different movie. Definetly worth the money, and well worth seeing again on the big screen.
I disagree with the "not science fiction" thing, the fact that they didnt combobulate the parallell deflectors and set phasers to stun but instead treated technology as an everyday occurence makes it more believable. The idea of the planet as a network is neat as well, one can imagine the whole thing as a Post-Singularity society, with a sentient network of biological entities as the collective conciousness of the planet.
Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won't engulf my head, I can see by infra-red, How I hate the night.
That's not really fair, nor accurate. Big budget movies, aimed to appeal to as many people as possible (and most often in the cases of blockbusters, that means 14 year olds) do have a very predictable plot.
Smaller budget movies tend to have better stories and unpredictable plot. There's plenty of US made movies that have excellent stories, writing, acting and directing. Indeed probably the best movies made currently are US independent ones.
European movies almost never have enough budget to have large focus groups and test audiences ruin the plot with something predictable. The few movies that do have large budgets tend to have very predictable plots. There's plenty of well-funded EU movies that are utter crap.
It's also worth remembering too that many, if not most US big budget studio movies are actually funded by Germans, or consortiums that include plenty of Europeans. To describe them as US isn't entirely accurate. Avatar's production company is Fox, which is owned by an Australian.
I watched it twice.
The "science" part of the science fiction was actually a subplot running throughout the movie. The biologists were studying electrochemical links between trees from the beginning of the movie. I picked up more on that the second time through.
It's a direct rip off from Asimov's Foundation series. The Gaia concept presented in the latter part of that series shares an enormous similarities with this movie.
But I wouldn't consider it fantasy in any sense. They try to root it in the scientifically plausible, yet unlikely, ideas.
.
I just saw it last weekend, and I gotta say.. Science Fiction? Not much. Science Fantasy is more like it. Just a few things threw me off. I loved most of the movie. And for a while I believed the blue people were spiritual in the same way humans were.. in ritual and what not... But instead it turned out to be a magical spiritual world, and a collective thought borg of trees and animals.. and those that .. died?
A fantastic adventure, but really just lost me as a caring viewer. I prefer things to be more rational.
Hard Sci-Fi is rare and rarely marketable.
Oh, you... With your "logic" and "facts". Way to ruin a rant, Pointdexter.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
I don't go see movies very often but this is one film that I was very happy to see in theaters. I realized about 20 minutes into the alien world that it was well worth the money to see it now - I don't think even the nicest BluRay player and HDTV can faithfully reproduce all of the computer generated detail they packed into this film.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Why are adults so critical of kids movies? Of course they're simple and stupid
Because they don't have to be. Up was an amazing movie. Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs was very good. That's proof enough that you can make a kids movie that's not a pile of crap. So it's plenty fair to criticize a kids movie that is a pile of crap.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I think you're being a bit short on your thinking. Where you saw some kind of magical ritual and spirit living on, I saw a high-speed universal neural interface that allowed a user to take control of local resources as necessary, and also was capable of downloading memories from an organic platform into something a little more permanent/distributed when that organic platform wasn't viable.
Just because the basis for their technology wasn't the same as ours is not a reason to dismiss it as fantasy - I don't think there was anything in that movie (except, perhaps, ironically, for the near light-speed travel the humans used) that wasn't feasible, or, even, on the near edge of coming to exist, through bio technology.
Right now we have people getting electrodes implanted into their brains that are allowing them to take control of various external devices (robotic limbs, keyboards, etc.) - why is it so hard for you to imagine something a bit more robust and universal, on the organic side? Right now we have researchers working on understanding how human memories and cognition work, and some basic ideas around how to read or store memories - why does it seem unreasonable to you that there might be a way to read out and store memories when an elder dies, so that they might continue to be available (in a limited way) for their people to continue to learn from? Right now we have a massive distributed network that spans the planet and contains pretty much everything that humans know - why does it seem unreasonable to you that an "intelligent" version of this might not be used by a sociaty to help guide them in difficult times, drawing on more information than any one individual could have?
Some pretty bright guy once said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic... And if you don't think that was technology, or advanced, just ask yourself who won the war in the movie...
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
I've been hearing a lot of people making comments that the story in Avatar is not a new story
Any literature teacher will tell you there are no new stories and haven't been for centuries.
A great work is a great great work by virtue of how well the story is told.
( Good writing, good acting, good script, etc )
Shakespeare is often given as an example. None of his plots were original but his works are still valued centuries later.
That being said Avatar is not Shakespeare. It is showcase for next generation special effects like Star Wars or Jurassic Park. Movies like that are rarely enjoyable once you are no longer impressed by the effects......they don't have anything else.
I don't see the message of the film as a problem. You can't have a story without a message. People don't like political messages in their entertainment if they disagree with the politics. Doesn't matter if you are a conservative or a liberal. Everybody reacts like that, few are honest about it.
I think the message in Avatar is a good message to be repeated. Too much of the world operates on the ideas of justice being the will of the stronger and history being written by the victor. I believe that embedding messages like Avatar's in entertainment will encourage respect for all people, whether or not they can bomb the hell out of you.
That can only lead to good things.
The scenery was cool, but not all that impressive. If you've ever played the Myst series of games, you'll know that striking visuals and landscapes like that have been done before. In fact, my first reaction on seeing Pandora was that it looked just like something I'd expect to see in Riven, and that's nearly a decade old.
The graphics were...ok. Sorry, but I really expected better. The cgi rendered reflections in the soldiers' face masks was a nice detail touch, but it made them look artificial. No stray strands of hair, 'flat' skin (just texture, not topographically modeled), and odd lighting effects looked unnatural.
The physics weren't all that great either. Turn your hand around quickly and you'll notice it 'jiggles' for a moment after you stop it. Not in the movie.. flesh didn't behave as I expected. Watch closely in the background when they are climbing up to choose their flying mounts, you'll notice their movements look like insects. We're introduced to scarface while he's lifting weights so he can keep in shape in the 'low gravity', and yet I saw no low gravity effects.
The sounds were the killer though. Whoever did the sound effects needs to be fired (upon). All of the flying craft used ducted fans for propulsion, and yet they all made the sounds of a helicopter. That, to me was the most distracting element, especially because there were so many scenes with flying craft.
It was good, yes. But not great. It was't realistic enough for me to believe... I kept getting jarred back to reality by the incongruities. You notice something isn't quite right, and maybe you can't put you finger on it, but it still nags at the back of your mind to remind you it's fake. And all of that could be forgiven if the story were compelling enough, but I've read too many similar 'persecuted aliens' stories to be impressed. It was, at least, worth the price of admission, which is something I find is all too rare these days.
Finally, why do entertainers continue to feel that they have to present their beliefs within a movie.
Because movies are a valid and welcomed medium for getting these messages across. I think you're letting Avatar influence your blanket statement above. I've seen this go horribly wrong two ways. You can belabor a belief or political idea in a movie to a point where nobody will be able to stomach it and you can also use such a tired message that most people are sick of hearing it. I haven't seen Avatar mostly because I feared the Fern Gully message so many other posters have mentioned. While the political message is valid, I'm sick of hearing it. Not because I don't care but because I read enough of it in the news.
... okay, I don't have to watch this movie. A shame that Cameron didn't take a more original story and risk it like Star Wars. Or even to tell a similar message about mankind's follies with a more complicated story like District 9 did. But he's James Cameron and the monetary risk was huge so of course we got some Grade F gruel that has been slammed into our gullets fifty times or more. This plot was sure to be labeled 'acceptable' by the public committee on what people will swallow.
This isn't true of all people, some people are going to love Avatar. And for a younger viewer it might be new to them. Fine. In Hollywood, the price for unoriginality is very very small. Too small in my opinion but
If I want to be preached at or listen to political messages, I will go to church or read a newspaper/book. I do not want to see it in movies or hear it at concerts.
Please, I implore you, watch Brazil or Dr. Strangelove. Listen to Bob Dylan or Pete Seeger. Now tell me that those movies and songs wouldn't be the same without those messages. There's an example of people using an artistic medium to get a message across that -- while not always original -- was not tired and was done tastefully. That message actually comprised much of what made them who they are. There's an appropriate way to do it but the artist always risks losing people by baking in a message that is contrary to what some people believe. James Cameron lost very few viewers with his message because it was a safe one. But if it had been more original it would have been brilliant and more timeless.
My work here is dung.
While James Cameron isn't in my top list of directors by a long shot, having seen most (all?) of his movies and now Avatar I have to admit he is a good director. He does the movies he likes and he puts loads of personal effort and risk into them. And he knows how to get the plot, visuals *and* the screenplay right. I said *right* not original or superb. Given, the Avatar plot isn't anything new. Cameron boldfacidly admitted in an interview that it was 'Dances with Wolves' (..Pocahontas/Ferngully/etc. ...) in SF and I, as everyone else, was prepared to see a generic plotline unfold.
But:
I was suprised that the didn't flog a dead horse in terms of stale american cornyness in dialouge. There was a bit to much of that in Abyss and I was surprised that he'd improved on that in leaps and bounds. The play and dialog where simply textbook, no more and no less, but they avoided pressing any issue. It was as if Cameron almost expected one to know the story. And Avatars pacing is excellent, imho. No strange Abyss-like 'Submarine drama turned ET' plot-turns or mood-swings. Just the right amount of action, tension, poetry and subplot you can expect and not to much avantgarde experimenting as not to confuse the target audience, i.e. the masses. The FX are first class and lack the significant botches that disturbed the visual experience in 'Attack of the Clones'. I was prepared for something like that in the 95% CGI movie that Avatar is, and was glad they didn't screw up.
Bottom line: Camerons movies are certainly not top-of-the-line in terms of avantgarde and arthouse, but they are allways a sure bet for a few hours of popcorn-movie fun. Which, as I understand, is his intention. And thus makes him a good director, in my book.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Part of the hype was that Cameron spent 8 bazillion years working on this movie and that's another thing that spoils it, you expect something great and wonderful and almost Star Wars like, but you get another popcorn movie, albeit an expensive one.
Funny true story. StarWars is not original.
Lucas wanted to make a swashbuckling movie, he just put it in space. He hired as a consultant the man who wrote "the Hero with a Thousand Faces", about the commonality of archtypes in stories around the world and throughout history: and Star Wars follows this pattern very rigidly (and repeates it in Empire). Add some scene-for-scene WWII air combat scenes and you have a movie.
Don't get me wrong: I *love* Star Wars. But this complaint that Avatar is not original ignores that noting is original.
I just saw it last weekend, and I gotta say.. Science Fiction? Not much. Science Fantasy is more like it.
Compared to 2001 or 2010 perhaps. Otherwise, Avatar is the most realistic (from the standpoint of physics) SciFi movie I can think of.
They actually made a ship that was mostly fuel and heat radiator, actually had it radiating heat, actually put the crew compartment far from the reactor, and actually travelled slower than light.
They aknowledged a different gravity, and adjusted several scenes accordingly, had the first plant I can remember in a long time with air you can't breathe, and (though they seem to have forgotten the effect in daytime) made creatures that are well camoflogued at night (which is likely the majority of the time since you have both rotational night and "blocked by the parent planet" night).
"Given that the big alternatives were Sherlock Holmes or Alvin & the Chipmunks, I think the winner was clear."
What the heck - Sherlock Holmes was infinitely better. Avatar was nice and all but nowhere near as entertaining, IMO. That comment is damned near trolling! *shakes fist* And get off my lawn!
Why in the fuck were those mountains floating? Nobody seems to give a shit, but I want to know why those goddamn mountains were floating. You can't just toss in FUCKING FLOATING MOUNTAINS with no goddamn explanation in a "science fiction" movie. Unless you're calling it straight-up fantasy, you get no FLOATING MOUNTAINS.
Floating. The fucking mountains were floating, and there was never even a hand-wavey explanation. Nothing. Just, meh, the fucking mountains float, they're legendary, who gives a shit?
Fuck you. I want to know why those goddamn mountains are FUCKING FLOATING FUUUUUUUUCK WHYYYYYYYYYY ARE THEY FLOATING?
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
Frankly I am sick and tired of this practice of demonstrating one's fake sophistication on Slashdot by criticizing everything under the sun as being "unoriginal". It is nothing but a circle-jerk of self-important dilettantism.
I don't know what your expectations were when you walked in to watch "Avatar", but mine were both pretty clear and pretty low. I was pleasantly surprised by both the plot, and its execution, including acting mind you.
I went to see it for the aesthetics... because unlike the super sophisticated crowd, I remember that film is a VISUAL art... and I found the world of "Avatar" with the high-tech humanity superimposed on the magical jungle to be absolutely beautiful. "Avatar" was a moving picture, a painting created by hundreds of true artists working for years... an achievement of visual art that the lot of you seem to dismiss in one sentence.
The plot was no more recycled than 99% of other plots. We're not nearly that original as a species, and given that we've already had a couple thousand years of written history, I'll bet you that there is nothing truly original left... only original interpretation of the same kinds of events happening to various people in various situations. It is the execution of the old formula that makes it original or not (see: "Batman Begins" for an example within the realm of cinema).
As a recycled plot, "Avatar" did pretty well. It was compelling on a brute emotional level, and if you bothered to consider that it was condemning everything that made it possible it was actually rather sarcastic.
So please stop. You're not fooling anyone.
Also: I dare you to predict the end of Primer.
Now that's just mean!
I had a helluva good time watching it -- isn't that all that really matters?
Avatar is getting a lot of criticism because it's so popular. Every movie has flaws that you can pick at; I don't know of a single movie that doesn't have flaws. But a good movie will make you not care about the flaws.
I'm fairly certain that very little, if any, guilt exists in this country for "killing all the Indians" (by the way, there are quite a few of them still alive). I'm pretty certain that none of us that are around today had anything to do with what happened that long ago.
Well, I for one, killed an injin last week! He was on my land!
Almost all Pixar movies and most Dreamworks movies are additional proof. However, I think Up was the best movie Pixar has done to date. The beginning was damned emotional... need to get the DVD so I can watch it again.
The sequel to Avatar,
The earth, royally pissed off at the evil, treacherous natives and especially at the traitorous humans who betrayed humanity, sends a follow up mission.
Three ships show up in orbit, undetected by the planet bound organic techology primitive society, set up and then shell the planet with high-velocity, non nuclear kinetic missiles killing 99% of all life on the planet.
They then take the damned unobtanium which is their birthright and leave an empty husk to the surviving tribes 115 years later. At that point, they allow themselves to feel guilty (a little) and set up a museum honoring the lost Navi culture.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
You think Avatar is an adult movie?
"In our tactical decisions, we are operating contrary to our strategic interest."
Forget predicting...I dare you to explain the end of Primer, even after seeing it.
The point GP was trying to make was that YOU didn't do anything to the Native Americans. GP did nothing to Native Americans. So what if your great great grandfather was a racist or whatever. The point is, no one alive today was part of that story, so no one alive today should feel guilty about it. Learn from it? Sure! But guilty? Hardly.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
A shame that Cameron didn't take a more original story and risk it like Star Wars.
I find it interesting that you should mention this, because I found the parallel between Avatar and Star Wars to be striking. Unlike you, I don't find the plot of the 1977 Star Wars movie to be original at all. It was simply that a farm-boy found a message from a princess who was captured by an evil knight and imprisoned in a dark fortress. With the help of a good knight and a pirate, he frees the princess and destroys the fortress before the dark knight can destroy the village.
That's about the most unoriginal story ever. It's been done over and over again since the middle ages. That's not why I loved Star Wars, however. I loved it because the visual spectacle at the time it was created was unlike anything that I had seen before. (I was only 9 years old in 1977, but still ...) Fighting with laser swords is cool! Fast moving spaceships with rapid fire lasers are cool! It had never been done before. The feeling was electric.
As I was watching Avatar at age 41, I got that same feeling. I felt like I was 9 years old again and seeing something absolutely amazing for the first time. The 3D effects were awkward for about the first 15 minutes of the movie, and then I stopped noticing them. The simply became the experience. The computer animation sequences were ridiculously good -- fantastically detailed. I think you can tell, I loved the movie.
Movies don't always have to be story-telling masterpieces. Sometimes they can just take you out of life for a while and put you on a visual roller-coaster ride. This movie did that more successfully than anything that I've seen in a long, long time.
Odds are that the house you are in RIGHT NOW was taken by a cascade of force, torture, and broken promises from a native peoples that, largely, welcomed your forefathers with open arms.
That's completely false. First off, only a portion of the native population were friendly, the rest scalped white people whenever they could find them, and hung the scalps from their belts as trophies. There were a few friendly native nations, but a great many were hostile.
Second, the natives themselves were constantly at war with each other, taking land and property by a "cascade of force, torture, and broken promises". The Europeans were simply a new player in the game, and they won. Yes, dirty deals were made by unscrupulous Europeans, but at the same time the native population never claimed any land. In their minds it was they who were scamming the newcomers. "You want to pay us to use land that we don't own? SURE! Sounds wonderful!". They only really lost out because the Europeans DID claim land, and vigorously defended it.
This idea that the native American population was kindhearted and gentle and severely wronged by the European invaders is foolish and not based in reality.
Third, I don't know a whole lot of people who live in houses over 100 years old, and the native americans never claimed ownership of any land. So who, exactly, is living in a house that was taken by "a cascade of force, torture, and broken promises from a native peoples that, largely, welcomed your forefathers with open arms"?
You are living in a fantasy land. The fact is, the newcomers played the same game the native's were playing, the newcomers were just better equiped, and so they won. In fact, I personally think that, while it is a nice gesture to try to allow natives to live as they once did by giving them their own land to do with as they will (aka reservations), in practice it does more harm than good. Better to just intigrate.
There is nothing for a modern American to feel guilty for, and in fact any guilt at all is based on a lack of understanding of history.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Herein lies a clue as to the thematic origin of Avatar: The Word for World is Forest written by Ursula K. LeGuin, released in 1976. Of course, the background affinity with Night Elves in Nagrand can't be discounted either.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear