Rudolph the Cadmium-Nosed Reindeer

theodp writes "Barred from using lead in children's jewelry because of its toxicity, some Chinese manufacturers have been substituting the more dangerous heavy metal cadmium in sparkling charm bracelets and shiny pendants being sold throughout the US, an AP investigation shows. Charms from 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer' bracelets were measured at between 82 and 91 percent cadmium, and leached so much cadmium that they would have to be specially handled and disposed of under US environmental law if they were waste from manufacturing. Cadmium, a known carcinogen, can hinder brain development in the very young. 'There's nothing positive that you can say about this metal. It's a poison,' said the CDC's Bruce Fowler. On the CDC's priority list of 275 most hazardous substances in the environment, cadmium ranks No. 7. Jewelry industry veterans in China say cadmium has been used in domestic products there for years. Hey, at least it doesn't metabolize into GHB when the little tykes ingest it."

Comments

REGULATORS!

[LostCluster]

Let's put these things together.... from TFA:

Cadmium is a known carcinogen. Like lead, it can hinder brain development in the very young, according to recent research.

and...

Some of the most troubling test results were for bracelet charms sold at Walmart, at the jewelry chain Claire's and at a dollar store.

So we've got a substance dangerous to kids in just the kind of jewelry they can afford on their allowance.

This stuff is absolutely something that needs regulation to control it. Sometimes "letting the market decide" just rolls off the bowling lane and into the gutter. No, knocking down pins in somebody else's lane doesn't count. That's why they put the gutter in.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Simple-Simmian]

Maybe if imports were actually inspected at the Border of the USA this crap would not happen. Very little of what is imported is inspected or even properly taxed.

Re:REGULATORS!

[timmarhy]

wtf has this got to do with "letting the market decide"? your talking about kids braclets, they are hardly in a position to decide anything. I would suggest once the market knows these bracklets are made with a dangerous heavy metal, it will decide. fail.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Taxed? Inspected? Let's talk about fines. And since many of these Chinese companies don't care, let's fine China. If that country won't take responsibility for the poisons they export to us, why are we dealing with them?

Re:REGULATORS!

[Dog-Cow]

I have no numbers on the amount of goods shipped into the US on a daily basis, but I suspect that it would take a large percentage of the population to check it all in a timely manner.

It would be better to simply fine Walmart several hundred billion dollars for poisoning US citizens. Walmart forces suppliers to lower prices, and this is exactly what we get. It is Walmart's fault.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

People making these bracelets with toxic metals in them are banking on that it would take months if not years for people to find this out. In this time, a company who makes it can net a lot of money.

Re:REGULATORS!

[timmarhy]

you do realise the idea of free markets is not anarchy, right? it's about allowing businesses to run themselves, not do "what ever they want", there's a subtle difference some people seem to have a mental block with.

Re:REGULATORS!

[LostCluster]

Kids don't know enough about science to know these things are bad for them. Neither do their parents. That's why we need to get these things out of stores so something safer can take their place.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget that whomever is in charge gets big money from lobbyists. The lobbyists are from companies who make BIG quarterly profits by ensuring that American jobs fly offshore, but Americans are still demanded to buy the products. This is why there isn't any taxation on Chinese imports or offshoring, but there is taxation for American companies making their stuff in house. Same reason why there are large tax incentives for businesses to move staffing overseas, while domestic companies have to pay payroll taxes.

Don't expect cadmium-laced toys for our kids to be the end of this. Hydrogen sulfate in drywall, melamine in baby food and pet products, lead and other toxic metals in toys, chips with remote destruct or monitoring abilities, and so on.

What is needed is to stop relying on another country that does not like us, but makes stuff for our kids. This won't come from popular support. It won't come from companies because they are addicted to the race to the bottom. So the pressure has to be done at the political level. Come election year, if a candidate doesn't get laws passed dealing with this, chuck them out and have someone who is able to provide minimal safety in products put in office, regardless of "D" or "R" by their names.

We need trade barriers protecting our nation and workforce. China has them in place for their own interests. Want a company in China? Their local interests have to own 51% of all ventures, and a foreigner cannot own land there. Don't forget the tariffs, so we can get revenue from somewhere other than the FED's printing press and level the playing field.

Re:REGULATORS!

[RoFLKOPTr]

If that country won't take responsibility for the poisons they export to us, why are we dealing with them?

Because it's cheap.

Re:REGULATORS!

[MindlessAutomata]

This stuff is absolutely something that needs regulation to control it.

Half the time people cry out for more regulation, there already is regulation in place. The problem is the very entity you want to enact regulations, is inept, certainly fallible, and usually only reacts after bad news like this gets out to the consumers--who by then (presumably) would already be scared of buying this stuff.

Since rules are already in place for this sort of thing, you can't cry out "regulate it!" because it already is regulated. The best, and really only short of a miracle, is informing consumers. And consumers, foolishly believing themselves protected by the government, do not inform themselves much and thus are put at risk. A large part of me thinks that these sorts of regulations are actually *bad* ideas because people assume that god (another word for "government") with his all-knowing wisdom will make sure everything is OK. But that's not the reality, and consumers always have to try to keep themselves informed. And skeptical. There's something wrong with a market, IMO, if people walk into a BestBuy and actually trusts one of the salespeople there.

Anyway, it's not really that government itself *needs* to oversee and regulate this stuff as *someone* has to. That's a very different claim, and private organizations could easily certify products as safe as an alternative. Not certified, don't buy. Wouldn't the world be so much better if consumers informed themselves about the products they buy (and at what costs to them, financially speaking) instead of just mindlessly consuming? We'd have actual competition in the medical sector (people do to the doctor and do not even agree to a price beforehand and just pay whatever is charged...!), BestBuy would go out of business overnight once people discovered the internet, and apple would sell less Ipods due to more people buying other personal media players, so on and so forth. People might even realize that there is an alternative to Windows!

In the end the onus is on you to keep yourself informed.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because China could tank our currency very easily and 'owns' A LOT of real assets in the United States.

Plus, It's the most common blunder - never get into a land war with china

(followed closely there after: never mess with a Sicilian when death is on the line)

Re:REGULATORS!

[saaaammmmm]

Charging China a paltry fee of 12,335,273,000,149 would do the trick.

Re:REGULATORS!

[bfree]

Come election year, if a candidate doesn't get laws passed dealing with this, chuck them out and have someone who is able to provide minimal safety in products put in office, regardless of "D" or "R" by their names.

If you only choose from the "D" or "R" options then would you really expect anything to change? I think it would be far more effective to vote for anyone else other then a "D" or "R" even if that candidate doesn't get elected as if any significant percentage of people did so it would not only scare the duopoly (and those lobbying them so effectively) but would encourage others in the future to try and provide a real alternative.

Re:REGULATORS!

[YrWrstNtmr]

My view is this:
Whoever is in that seat today, you're out come election time. I don't care if its D, R, L, C, or X after your name. You're out, because you are demonstrably doing a shitty job.

If you are in that seat today, get the fuck out. Let someone else try it for a while, because you suck.

Re:REGULATORS!

[debrain]

wtf has this got to do with "letting the market decide"? your talking about kids braclets, they are hardly in a position to decide anything. I would suggest once the market knows these bracklets are made with a dangerous heavy metal, it will decide. fail.

Sir —

The market's invisible hand rewards those selling cadmium bracelets because they are cheaper than other kinds; people buy them in the belief that they are essentially equivalent in every way but price (and, interestingly, looks). However, as per the article, these bracelets are not equivalent in their health effects - the cadmium bracelets present an enormous health hazard. I agree that if people knew the presence of cadmium and its effects, they would not buy cadmium laden bracelets. However people do not know, they have any way of knowing such a thing, and as most people would presume that such a toxin would never be in children's bracelets there is unlikely to be inquiry by most purchasers (many are also likely aware that the salesperson knows as much about the heavy metal content of the bracelet as they would know about ... virtually anything, hence there is no source of information that can be accessed with reasonable levels of effort).

With enough money one can ensure the market never "knows". A well funded company that has purchased all its competitors and has inroads into multiple marketing vectors can present whatever image they feel appropriate. Your rebuttal would seem to be premised on a society made up predominantly of informed, conscientious consumers. That is not the society we now live in. Consumers today are at best uninformed, indifferent, and short-sighted. On average they are self-indulgent, misinformed, and impulsive.

For example, look at the food production and distribution system in the United States. People who eat meat at fast food joints are consuming (albeit in small portions) sterilized faeces and ground up other humans. Heck, Monsanto's still around, and doing rather well, in spite of well known criticism.

Alas, I would disagree with the assertion that the market can self-correct in all cases (the formula is rather simple - if the profit minus the cost of mitigation is greater than the cost of continuing to sell a bad product - continue to sell). Perhaps if the culture changes and people become conscious of their consumables we will see a change in the type of market. But for now, if the market were left to decide, and the avenues of information were paid to ameliorate criticism, there could continue to be a healthy market for cadmium laden bracelets that are cheaper than alternatives and purchased in the absence of education, awareness and forethought.

Re:REGULATORS!

[TOGSolid]

In before "Government conspiracy to kill off low/middle class families."

C'mon, I know someone here was seriously thinking it.

Re:REGULATORS!

[ibsteve2u]

No, because it is highly profitable - and while that may seem like semantic quibbling, it is all the difference in the world.

Beyond that, those who profit here have two layers of insulation: First, it was made in China ("Oh, those bad, bad Chinese!", the media cooperatively wails). And secondly, since the corporation is a de facto "person" under U.S. law the individuals who make the decisions here are rarely found to be culpable/responsible; instead, the corporation picks up the tab out of small change.

Contradictorily - and presumably only because they are new to the game of capitalism - the Chinese have yet to learn that the search for profits justifies all, so when they catch a business executive pulling a stunt that harms their people, they gift said executive with that uniquely Chinese jewelry: A bullet behind the ear.

Or perhaps their government is just less corrupt than ours is.

Re:REGULATORS!

[anagama]

I was tempted to just mod you up, but I want to reiterate your point. Our debt is the greatest national security issue we face. Take for example how the US, as a creditor to Great Britain after WWII, forced GB to follow the will of the US:

The United States also put financial pressure on Great Britain to end the invasion. Eisenhower in fact ordered his Secretary of the Treasury, George M. Humphrey to prepare to sell part of the US Government's Sterling Bond holdings. ...

Britain's then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Harold Macmillan, advised his Prime Minister Anthony Eden that the United States was fully prepared to carry out this threat. He also warned his Prime Minister that Britain's foreign exchange reserves simply could not sustain a devaluation of the pound that would come after the United States' actions; and that within weeks of such a move, the country would be unable to import the food and energy supplies needed simply to sustain the population on the islands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

Why do you think there is nothing serious done about human rights violations or trade unfairness? It is because China could simply end the US economy. Debtors are slaves.

Re:REGULATORS!

[anagama]

Oh that'd work real well. Maybe as a big thank you to the government Walmart would decide to shut down and put more than a million people out of work.

That retail wouldn't go away and those workers would then likely get better paying jobs at the local businesses WM originally put out of business, which then spring back up. It really annoys me that people are too cheap to pay an extra percent or two to support local businesses where not only the workers spend their earnings in the local community, but the owners do as well. Shopping at WM simply supports the concentration of retail profit into the hands of fewer and fewer people, impoverishing far more people than it ever helps. It gets very disgusting when state and local governments lend a hand to the WalMarts of the world by offering them tax breaks, which just helps accelerate destruction of the local economy and speeds the transit of wealth out of the community -- all so people can save a dime on a box of eggs. Sick.

Re:REGULATORS!

[justindarc]

If that country won't take responsibility for the poisons they export to us, why are we dealing with them?

Who else would supply Wal-Mart with all their crap?

Re:REGULATORS!

[RoFLKOPTr]

Or perhaps their government is just less corrupt than ours is.

I lol'd heartily.

Re:REGULATORS!

[sustik]

Actually, it seems a perfectly good idea to create those jobs to inspect the goods.
Since WM brings it in WM pays for it. Those people who lost their jobs because of WM
may get it back in the inspection sector.

Of course this will raise the WM prices, which is the right thing to do; today they
can offer the low price because they are not bound buy the same safety regulations.

Re:REGULATORS!

[QuoteMstr]

Half the time people cry out for more regulation, there already is regulation in place. The problem is the very entity you want to enact regulations, is inept, certainly fallible

"Inept" isn't the word I'd use: instead, I'd say the regulators have been captured by powerful industry lobbies. They're certainly fallible too, in the sense that we're all human and all corruptible.

This debacle does not constitute evidence that regulation doesn't work. On the contrary, it's evidence that our regulatory system has been co-opted by the industry it was meant to regulate, and deep down, that's due to our extreme inequity of wealth in this country distorting our political process.

End campaign contributions. Institute reasonable top-end incoming taxes, like 90% above $5 million. Break up huge corporations.

Having done that, our regulatory problems will disappear on their own, because government will again work for the people.

Re:REGULATORS!

[cayenne8]

"I WAS thinking of a Chinese Government Conspiracy, does that count?"

Yeah....between this and the chinese drywall problems, I do think they're trying to kill us.

Hell, they're even after out pets!! Remember the pet food scare about a year ago?

How about we just stop buying shit from China? How about a great marketing campaign for US companies. "Sure it costs a little more, but it won't kill ya"!

Re:REGULATORS!

[QuoteMstr]

People like you voted for Nader and inflicted Bush the Younger on yourselves, our country, and the world. As the first decade of the 21st century has tragically demonstrated, the parties aren't the same.

Voting for a third party does nothing with out simple first-past-the-post voting scheme. Any scenario other than a two party system is unstable, and will eventually decay to that. Every new political party in the United States has been a rebranding of one of the previous two.

I'd love to switch to an alternative scheme. Most other democracies are parliamentary, and we probably made the wrong decision back in the 18th century. But changing isn't very likely, so we're stuck with our current system.

That means that the only way to effect change is to subvert one of the political parties. The Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck/tea party people have been eating through the Republicans like a chestburster from Aliens. We need to do the same to the Democratic party to make it more progressive, and various people have been trying.

But you see, that involves work. It's much easier to decry the system than to fix our country.

Re:REGULATORS!

[jamesh]

People who eat meat at fast food joints are consuming (albeit in small portions) sterilized faeces and ground up other humans.

citation needed!

Re:REGULATORS!

[phantomfive]

The situation with China is not as bad......China has less than a trillion dollars in US treasury bonds, so even if they dumped them all on the market, it would have a smaller inflationary effect than what the Fed has done in the last year.

The US produces more food than it consumes, so we would be ok on the essentials, although we might have trouble getting Mexican mangos for a while. Furthermore, because most other world currencies depend somewhat on the dollar, any such inflation would likely spread throughout the world monetary system.

I'm not trying to say we shouldn't close the deficit, of course we should, but let's be rational about it. I'm tired of oversensationalized disaster scenarios.

Re:REGULATORS!

[QuoteMstr]

You clearly have no idea how a graduated income tax even works. Do you even pay taxes?

Let's suppose we have a three-tier system: 10% on income of $0-$50,000, 40% on income from $50,000 - $5 million, and 90% above $5 million.

Now let's say you're a banker who's paid $6 million per year.

10% on the first $50,000 = $5,000
40% on $50,000 through $5 million = $198,000
90% on $5 million through $6 million = $900,000

Total tax burden: $2,885,000, or 48%
Take-home income: $3,115,000

That's enough for anyone.

Of course, in the real world, we have more taxation tiers (or "brackets") with finer graduations, but you get the point.

Re:REGULATORS!

[PaladinAlpha]

How many people know that cadmium is a poison? Do you think that the jewelry in question had a warning label on it that said something to the effect of "this product is toxic and will cause brain damage"? Do you even think there was an acknowledgment that the products contained cadmium at all? Of course not. No one is going out and "buying cadmium based products." That's ridiculous. You're trying to excuse what is either criminal fraud or criminal negligence.

Re:REGULATORS!

[tftp]

Please, punish me with a paltry salary of $5 million per year!

You conveniently forget one common case. An entrepreneur creates a company, works for 10 or 15 years to build it up, lives on minimal salary himself ... and finally he finds a buyer for his business. Now you propose to steal 90% of the money that he earned, but not cashed, in last 10 to 15 years. In your world no sane man would open a business if any large transaction is confiscatory.

Re:REGULATORS!

[feepness]

It really annoys me that people are too cheap to pay an extra percent or two to support local businesses where not only the workers spend their earnings in the local community, but the owners do as well.

It's not just that. While WMT has pushing their low prices has been a factor, there is also the ease of going to one place for several things rather than going to the local hardware store, the local toy store, the local cosmetics store, the local electronics store, and the local grocery. It's more a time thing than anything else.

Re:REGULATORS!

[MindlessAutomata]

You still haven't answered: what justifies the government taking it all away? If you don't think someone "deserves" all the money they make, then don't fucking give it to them.

Re:REGULATORS!

[timmarhy]

the difference between a free market and "do what ever you want", is that in a free market consumers have a choice. under "do what you want" it's acceptable for business to lie, cheat and force the consumer into buying their product. free market means equal opportunity.

Re:REGULATORS!

[QuoteMstr]

You still don't explain why the government would spend the balance of that 6 million better than I would, or indeed why the government would be better run if it had it.

Good question. It's because the rich spend the money on luxury goods that are inferior (from a utilitarian perspective, because they benefit only a few people) to social benefits (which are very useful to everyone). Furthermore, luxury goods have a lower multiplier effect, which means the money spent on them recirculates less, and causes less economic activity.

And that's money that's actually "spent". Most of it isn't, and is instead invested, usually in the kind of bubble we've seen lately. That money is written off when these bubble pop, thus making sure the economic value of that money never made it into the real economy. Yes, investment can be a good thing, but when there are too many dollars chasing too few assets, bubbles result, and bubbles always pop. It's like flaring off otherwise-useful natural gas: it's both wasteful and harmful.

Actual experience of trying out tax rates like that suggests that it is a seriously bad idea - just ask any successful Briton form the 1970s, or any Argentinian farmer today.

We had tax rates that high in the 1960s and 1970s, yet we didn't suffer. Argentina's economic problems had more to do with a flawed industrial policy, an ossified political structure, and punishing tariffs on imports from other first-world nations.

Furthermore, there are plenty of success stories. A whole continent full of them, in fact:

Strange to say, however, what everyone knows isn't true. Europe has its economic troubles; who doesn't? But the story you hear all the time -- of a stagnant economy in which high taxes and generous social benefits have undermined incentives, stalling growth and innovation -- bears little resemblance to the surprisingly positive facts. The real lesson from Europe is actually the opposite of what conservatives claim: Europe is an economic success, and that success shows that social democracy works.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

We'd still buy the cheaper one.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Fred_A]

How many people know that cadmium is a poison? Do you think that the jewelry in question had a warning label on it that said something to the effect of "this product is toxic and will cause brain damage"?

It did have a label. It said :

"New ! Now with cadmium for your likeness ! Rodulf will make happy happy red noose ! Many like ! Wishes for new chrisass ! (not to be et. made in China)"

Re:REGULATORS!

[MrMr]

I guess it would probably cost less than the current passenger scans at US airports, and save more lives.

Re:REGULATORS!

[umghhh]

If it is good for chinese kids it is also good for any other one. Stop complaining and invest in cadmiun ore mines!

Re:REGULATORS!

[AK Marc]

In your world no sane man would open a business if any large transaction is confiscatory.

In places like that, people still do open businesses, so everyone must be insane. Because it couldn't be possible that you are wrong.

Now you propose to steal 90% of the money that he earned, but not cashed, in last 10 to 15 years.

I haven't seen anything about capital gains in there, and that's separate from salary now. So you are asserting that they are the same, which isn't the case now, and that it would also be at the highest tax rate, which it isn't now. That seems to be assuming everything you can to bash him, rather than figuring out if that's what he meant.

Not to mention, it wouldn't matter. Don't sell the company. Have them pay a trust, and have the trust pay out. In most cases, a trust (especially one associated with a large legitimate company, as is in this case) operates as a separate entity. Have the trust pay him out slowly, rather than a lump sum. It's not hard to minimize taxes. And no, there's no moral duty to make your taxes as high as possible and pay them out. Good tax structure isn't tax evasion.

Re:REGULATORS!

[zmollusc]

There seems no end of funding available to search passengers at airports, why can't retail goods be searched?

Minion: Sir! Some guy put a firework in his socks and tried to board an aircraft!
Gov: OMFGBBQ!!! Strip-search all passengers! Build new xray machines and put them in airports! Flood the airports with rent-a-cops! Rescind all human rights! Detain anyone who uses any word on our secret naughty word list! Build dna databases of everyone except me!

Minion: Sir! Also Walmart are selling kids toys that are made of toxins!
Gov: Meh! So what?

Re:REGULATORS!

[gtall]

There are two other problems the Chinese face with dumping dollars. The increase in inflationary pressure makes the dollar cheaper and hence U.S. exports more competitive with their Chinese crap. And with those inflated dollars, since Americans won't be earning any more of them than before, Americans won't have as much money to buy the Chinese crap.

There is also a third problem but not directly related to the dollar, the Chinese economy is addicted to hypergrowth. With hypergrowth comes inefficiencies and graft. If the Chinese economy slows, it runs the risk of imploding as investment heads for the exits. It is a growing problem for them because the rest of the world has Chinese goods coming out their various orifices. The only way to soak them up in the future will be for the Chinese to increase domestic consumption. That's when the Chinese will be forced to use the crap they've been pawning off on the rest of the world. Their legal system won't be able to sort out the mess, the government is already sclerotic and gets the heebie-jeebies when the Falon Gong start doing exercises in the street.

What will be a problem for the U.S. is when the Chinese get tired of buying U.S. debt. Congress-critters won't be able to kick the can down the road any further and the budget will be forced into a better alignment with revenues. Congress-critters will only make changes when they have no other option. The Obama administration is all hat and no cattle so they will be mere by-standers.

Re:REGULATORS!

[bsDaemon]

"De facto" means 'in practice', so I think you're looking for 'de jure' meaning 'in law'. Something is something de facto just because of its nature, whereas de jure means that they passed a law making the corporation a legal entity (which is necessary so that they can own property such as buildings, manufacturing equipment, etc). just sayin'.

but seriously, i'm sick of all this Chinese crap and I'm sick of people buying the cheapest thing even if its not nearly the best, or even "pretty good" just because its the cheapest. I had a conversation one time with Thad McCotter, a Republican member of Congress, and he told me that economic libertarians were responsible for propping up the Communists by allowing free trade with people who use prison labour to reduce their costs. Poisoned childrens' toys are the result of this.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

As an ex-owner of a local business that Walmart bankrupted, I can assure you that nothing "springs up" after they sweep through town. The entrepreneurs? They've been destroyed. Bankruptcy destroyed their credit, and seeing their so-called loyal customers abandon them for 4 cents off each can of coke has opened their eyes. Yes, there will be growth to fill the void (should it ever appear) but it won't happen overnight. It'll take a new generation of suckers to open up their own businesses, not the ones who already got burned hard.

Re:REGULATORS!

[jbengt]

Since rules are already in place for this sort of thing, you can't cry out "regulate it!" because it already is regulated.

No.
RTFA
There are no regulations for cadmium in jewelry.

Re:REGULATORS!

[mcgrew]

Half the time people cry out for more regulation, there already is regulation in place.

The answer isn't more regulation, nor deregulation, but better regulation. Elect good leaders who will appoint good regulators and you'll have good regulations.

In the end the onus is on you to keep yourself informed.

Nobody can know everything. There are too many facets of life to be informed about everything. When my pipes spring a leak I call a plumber; no matter how informed I am about plumbing, a professional plumber will know more than me. There is no way for you to inform yourself that the toys are toxic unless it's documented somewhere that you can access the information.

I like regulators because it's their job to be informed of the industries they're regulating.

Re:REGULATORS!

[Shotgun]

No, it's social science. How do you manipulate people to make them demand the change?

It is actually much more difficult than rocket science. You can't draw out a path to follow using math.

I can think of something positive...

[Anonymous Coward]

...combine it with nickel and you've got yourself a battery. Now that's positive... and negative.

When life gives you lemons

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Lemons are an interesting fruit. They are incredibly sour to the point of being inedible as-is, this makes it evolutionarily disadvantaged since more tasty fruits would seemingly have an advantage. However, here we are with literally millions of lemon trees. What can we do with these sour fruits? Lemonade!

So when life hands you cadmium, make Ni-Cad batteries!

Could outsource less

[Alcoholist]

Just saying.

Re:Could outsource less

[Inda]

And the USA, the would leaders in Chinese hatemongering, could take some responsibility. I'm getting really fed up with the way the USA wants everything cheap and cheerful without a thought for anyone else. The hate is borderline racism - call them Chinks and sprinkle some sugar on the top.

I work for a German company, in the UK. Our partners are mainly Swiss and French. When we commission the Chinese to work for us, we help them. We fly our people over, we explain why we wont let them machine our metal in an asbestos covered factory, we perform QA on every 200th part, we show them COSHH sheets, we help. The Chinese are more than happy to follow our safety procedures. They honestly like the help we give them. And they obviously love the work and the money and we like the quality produce they produce for us.

Sloppy work is all your fault. Just saying.

How come...

[mysidia]

Barred from using lead ... Chinese manufacturers have been substituting the more dangerous heavy metal cadmium

They're not barred from using Cadmium? But they're barred from using Lead?

Wouldn't it make more sense to regulate the safety of products using the more harmful material first?

We shouldn't need a 'law' for each material... we should get one law about safety requirements for harmful materials, warning labels, and access by children.

For example, products for use by children must not contain amounts of cadmium or lead that are not protected by a safety measure.

Of course their toy's batteries might contain cadmium or lead, so it shouldn't be banned, but safety requirements at least as strict (such as shielding/containing harmful materials) should be applied to Cadmium as to lead, etc, etc.

Cadmium Positives

[camperdave]

There's nothing positive that you can say about this metal

It's sulfide makes for a good photoresistor. Combined with nickel, cadmium makes for a good rechargeable battery. It's also used in the heat sensitive trigger in fire suppresion sprinkler systems. In short, cadmium has probably saved more lives than it's taken.

Re:Cadmium Positives

[wxjones]

It's also a great neutron absorber.

Re:Cadmium Positives

[theheadlessrabbit]

There's nothing positive that you can say about this metal

It's sulfide makes for a good photoresistor. Combined with nickel, cadmium makes for a good rechargeable battery. It's also used in the heat sensitive trigger in fire suppresion sprinkler systems. In short, cadmium has probably saved more lives than it's taken.

It also makes a very, very nice red pigment.

As an artist, I use tons of cadmium red because it has properties that no other red pigment can match. it's got great intensity, great opacity, and unlike 90% of the other reds used in paint, cadmium is actually permanent. It doesn't fade after a few months exposure to sunlight. Unlike every other red pigment out there, when you mix cadmium red with white, you don't get pink, you get light red. When mixed with other colours, it gives you very natural tones.
Classical portraiture and landscapes would be impossible without it. Ever noticed how when high school kids paint portraits, it often looks like the men are wearing pink lipstick? it's cause the kids aren't using cadmium. The synthetic pigments just don't mix right.

The thing that surprised me about this story: cadmium pigment is bloody expensive compared to all the other reds. ($75/tube vs $20/tube) why the hell aren't they using one of the much cheaper, safer reds?

And this is why not to buy Chinese....

[Ritchie70]

This sort of shit is why you don't want to buy Chinese products if you can help, and never, ever, buy Chinese food products.

When buying gifts for very young children (preschool age and down) I do my best to buy toys made in Europe or the US.

I've accepted that I can't avoid Chinese merchandise in general, but I try to be selective - not for people who don't know not to eat their stuff, and not for things I plan to eat.

I read somewhere that Chinese industry is currently at a safety level - both for their workers and their products - roughly comparable to Victorian England or America. That isn't a world I want to live in if I can avoid it.

Re:And this is why not to buy Chinese....

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a problem. I was reading somewhere (sorry, don't recall where... it was a news article months ago) about how the majority of all US peanut butter brands are filled with peanuts from China. Apparently they control the majority of the market.

Just imagine the things leaching into their soil over there...

ugh.

Re:And this is why not to buy Chinese....

[TheWizardTim]

This is the problem with our Trade Agreements. We enforce IP laws to no end, but other issues? Workers rights and safety issues never seem to come up.

The Libertarian view does not work here. Sure, we can sue Walmart for importing these toys. We can sue the maker, somehow. The problem is that if one kid dies or becomes permanently sick because of these toys, it's too late. We need regulation. We need trade agreements that not only enforce IP, but make sure that the companies are not using methods or materials banned in the US.

The same applies to any company operating in the US. Self regulation only goes so far. We had the Sego mine disaster in 2006. Who was the head of US mine safety? A mine owner. So in Europe when the same thing happened, the workers had a bunker with food, water and air to retreat too. To save money, the US did not have any regulations requiring bunkers. The workers here died.

Re:And this is why not to buy Chinese....

[feepness]

The problem is that if one kid dies or becomes permanently sick because of these toys, it's too late.

I note the Republicans (well, and I guess the Democrats now) saying the same thing about terrorism.

We cannot protect everyone from everything. Well, we could, but I'm not sure that would be a world anyone would want to live in.

But here's the question... has cadmium actually made anyone sick yet? Isn't the alarm being raised before that happened already? Do you expect our politicians to somehow spot have spotted this ahead of everyone else?

I would be perfectly happy to see cadmium regulated, but it's not as if people are dying in the streets right now because of it.

Re:And this is why not to buy Chinese....

[TheWizardTim]

Government regulation works, when we want it to work. The problem is that since the 80s we had people in charge of government that hate government. Look at the last administration. We had a horse trader in charge of FIMA. We had a mine owner in charge of mine safety. Today we have a big banker in charge of policing the banks.

If you are able to source all of your own food, and products you buy, good for you. The rest of have to have some group that checks on companies and products to make sure they are following the rules.

Re:Domestic use

[MyLongNickName]

Wow. You are a total and complete ass. You don't like the Chinese government, so some poor two year old should get poisoned?

Fucktard.

Rudolph...

[girlintraining]

...substituting the more dangerous heavy metal cadmium

Everybody knows a proper Rudolph is made from tritium, not cadmium. Damn imitation radioactive children's toys... buy american: We use 100% Tritium in our glow in the dark toys!

Re:Rudolph...

[21mhz]

I was thinking along these lines, too: now it'd be only logical for them to switch to radium, to give Rudolph's nose a warm glow. You know, the way Mme Curie did it and early pilot chronographs actually had it.

Scaremongering

[wiredlogic]

It is a little annoying when people trot out these scary stories without completely understanding the true threats involved. Cadmium is only considered to be carcinogenic when inhaled as a vapor. You can safely touch it without any adverse effects. While not commonplace today, there was a time when tools were frequently cadmium plated. These are safe to use provided you don't do anything to remove the plating or try to polish it up.

Re:Scaremongering

[Nemyst]

And you've never seen a little child putting stuff into his/her mouth and happily chewing?

Re:Scaremongering

[hey!]

Ingestion is a serious danger with cadmium. There was a case of mass Cd poisonings in Japan in the first half of the 20th century, caused by contaminated rice irrigated with water downstream from mines. Any application where Cd comes into contact with the hands -- especially children's hands -- is suspect.

With respect to Cd plated tools -- I don't remember them. I do remember fasteners with Cd plating. I suppose if you don't disturb the plating it's not likely to leach. However that says nothing about the items in the article which *did* leach. You can't compare plating to something like paint, which is an entirely different thing. If it weren't, you'd never have to plate anything, you'd get by with paint.

In any case I don't buy the whole "we used to use such and so and it ain't harmed me none" argument. When I was young people still carbon tetrachloride to clean circuit boards. Let me tell you it was da bomb. It was cheap, worked like a charm, left no residue, and you could put out fires with it. I knew lots of people who used it and never saw any adverse reactions. That doesn't mean it didn't hurt some people. For one thing I haven't followed those people for thirty years and don't know how many ended up with liver damage.

The real question is:

[Hurricane78]

Do you buy it anyway?
Because I don’t see it not being sold everywhere, anytime soon.

You don’t have to buy it from China, you know?
But it’s so cheap, right? ;)

When did cheap become equal too good?
I guess by the time that simple became equal to efficient...

Itai-Itai

[the eric conspiracy]

The Japanese have experience with environmental pollution from cadmium mining.

They call the results itai-itai disease, which is roughly translated into ouch-ouch. Few victims actually die from the disease, they typically commit suicide to get relief from the pain it causes.

Well that's *very* comforting

[toby]

Jewelry industry veterans in China say cadmium has been used in domestic products there for years.

And we know the Chinese don't give a damn about poisoning their backyard or themselves.

We'll all pay for this unforgivable, mindless destruction eventually.

Makes nice paints

[dickens]

Actually there is another nice thing you can say about cadmium. It makes lovely yellow and orange pigments. Sort of like lead white. Van Gogh may have absorbed or ingested enough to cause or exacerbate his mental disorders.

Re:Makes nice paints

[mirix]

It's very effective corrosion resistance plating as well. Even better when you put on a chromate conversion coating after (also toxic).
It's not used much in consumer goods though, mostly military stuff (chrome conversion can conveniently turn it olive-drab, too.)

I believe the main problem with Cd is - it's very similar to Zn. And due to this similarity, your body absorbs it, as zinc, but you are unable to excrete it, and get something like a horrible zinc deficiency? I'm not entirely certain, but I seem to recall something like that.

Coincidentally, Cd and hex-chrome as both banned in the EU, under RoHS, - Well It would be if these were electronics.

Re:Makes nice paints

[mirix]

I should add - after years, plain cadmium plating oxidizes, and turns to a sort of butternut yellow coloured powder. I think this is when it is most dangerous, because it is very easy to inhale or ingest.

I see it on occasion on the metalwork of electronic equipment from the 50's and 60's.

Fair and balanced.

[nemock]

When you consider the astronomical amount of products we import from China, cases like this are the rare exception ... not the norm. Problem is the media keeps digging these cases up and shining flood lights on them to reinforce the stereotype that products from China are poor quality and dangerous. Try to replace China with any country/countries and watch the prices/danger levels shoot up and quality fall. The only positive side of these stories is the public is informed of which specific products should be avoided. Problem is .. they do this only for Chinese products (and no it's not because only Chinese products have issues).

Re:Fair and balanced.

[McFortner]

Wow, you sound like a shill saying that. Get real, the Chinese Communist Central Committee doesn't care as long as they can get our money and get away with it. As soon as we find out, some poor middle management schmuck gets put up against the wall and shot. Remember, Lenin said "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." We sure are making the job easy for them....

Re:Why using cadmium?

[maxume]

Cadmium melts at about 600 F. Iron melts at about 2,800 F.

Re:Why using cadmium?

[wvmarle]

You mean 315 C and 1540 C right? Then those numbers start making sense for the rest of the world.

Re:silver lining

[jameskojiro]

And Americans will have become overly weakened because we will use medicine to keep people barely alive who have been poisoned by heavy metals.....

To Stop This

[randallman]

Whatever company outsources the labor or imports/markets the dangerous merchandise should be held accountable. So if Barbie comes back with lead paint, Mattel should pay the price.

TARIFFS!

[QuoteMstr]

The trade may be free, but it's sure as hell not fair:

1. China has no environmental or labor standards. It's not fair to expect our domestic industries to compete against theirs when we have to clean up after ourselves. Here, we have elections. There, if you complain about the local river turning green and your kids' hair falling out, you get disappeared.
2. China has been manipulating its currency, the renminbi, to subsidize its exports and cost us millions of jobs.
3. Third, the unmitigated, unregulated, and unabashed greed exhibited by Chinese manufacturers and their American partners has not only poisoned our economy with a cavalcade of cheap crap, but put the lives and well-being of our pets, our children, and ourselves in danger.

It's time to place heavy tariffs on Chinese imports until they play by the same rules as the rest of the civilized world. We shouldn't do business with Dickenonsian nightmare states.

fixed links

[toby]

Sorry, copy and paste fail. I intended to link to these:

• Lu Guang from People’s Republic of China won the $30,000 W. Eugene Smith Grant in Humanistic Photography for his documentary project “Pollution in China.”
• Industrial Pollution Kills Hundreds Along the Huai River Basin in China
• de-industrialization of the west just moved the western problems of the past to a country that doesn’t seem to care much about pollution control.

...as just a few examples of the incredible disdain with which China pollutes its own backyard and poisons its people. Even Ceaucescu's Romania has nothing on this mess.

Blame Canada!

[rve]

If that country won't take responsibility for the poisons they export to us, why are we dealing with them?

Because it's cheap.

Citation needed.

I know cadmium is very commonly used in plastics because of the bright and weather resistant colors that can be made with it, not because it's cheap. Bright yellow, red or orange plastic items that have to spend a lot of time outdoors without fading are often colored with cadmium. Plastic beer crates for example, or company logos.

Now it seems obvious that it's less suitable for children's toys, because kids of a certain age tend to put everything in their mouth, but remember that scandal a couple of years ago when lead based paint was used in children's toys manufactured in China? Everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten that the problem then wasn't in China, but in the specifications sent to them by the American company that had the toys made. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened again.

Re:Blame Canada!

[Rob the Bold]

If that country won't take responsibility for the poisons they export to us, why are we dealing with them?

Because it's cheap.

Citation needed.

I know cadmium is very commonly used in plastics because of the bright and weather resistant colors that can be made with it, not because it's cheap.

You're not using much of any plating metal on cheap charms, so the cost of the material is probably not as significant as the cost of plating it on. You want a metal that's easy to plate, shiny and corrosion resistant, so cadmium fits the bill (in retrospect, shoulda put "non-toxic" in there). What other options might they have used? Chrome might be less toxic, but plating generates hazardous wastes. Perhaps the environment people where the shop is located are more diligent (or more present) than the toy safety people. Silver is benign, but it tarnishes. Zinc doesn't tarnish, but is less shiny. Gold, rhodium, palladium are pricey enough to be getting into significant material cost. The price of indium has gone up since the Chinese stopped separating it from zinc ore. Tin would probably work. Dipping it in mercury would make it nice and shiny, but there's the poisonous thing.

So how do you pick? I guess you'd find whatever was cheap enough from a material standpoint and compatible with your expertise and equipment. If anyone complains, well, you're not a toxicologist, are you?

Re:REGULATORS, the dumbasses!

[PaladinAlpha]

Private enterprise failed here just as much -- the retailers had just as much opportunity to discover cadmium contamination and didn't do it . I tell you what, you name the private corporation that could handle vetting all of our imports.

While you're chewing on that -- how are those government-built roads, government-run civil services, and food quality that improved measurably after government regulation treating you? Government isn't always the answer, but neither is privatization. Anti-corporate sentiment is at an all-time high, and it is richly deserved.

Solar Cells

[EndoplasmicRidiculus]

Most thin film solar cells are based on cadmium telluride. Cadmium is one of the rarer metals so making children's bracelets out of it seems like a waste as well.

Pots and kettles

[Anonymous Coward]

It's time to place heavy tariffs on Israeli and USA imports until they play by the same rules as the rest of the civilised (sic) world. We shouldn't do business with Genocidal Torture states. There, trolled that for you.

The thing is, dickweed, it's Walmart and similar US corporations that are making the money on this kind of activity, and you're not going to put their owners and senior executives in prison, so you should just shut the fuck up with your racist rhetoric. You can stop this business by dealing with those "American partners", but you refuse, because you're too weak to stand up for yourselves and just want to point the finger elsewhere.

And as for playing by the rules, I hadn't noticed the USA fulfilling its legal requirements as stipulated by its own constitution and legally ratified international treaties. The USA manipulates its currency by launching wars on anyone trying to suppress the petrodollar. Wait, I've been trolled again myself, haven't I?

2004 election is over

[OrangeTide]

People like you voted for Nader and inflicted Bush the Younger on yourselves, our country, and the world.

If Al Gore and John Kerry can't beat an ape by a significant margin with the rank and file democrat votes then they didn't deserve the job. It's pretty pathetic to blame the swing voters and the far left for the problems of the world. 59M people voted for Kerry out of 215M possible voters. There were 92M voters who really did throw their vote away by not even showing up. Why don't you attack them instead of the roughly 1.1M who voted outside of the two main parties. Barely half a million for Nader.

I think I'll blame the Bush catastrophe on the 59M democrats for not picking someone better in their primaries, at least that sort of unreasonableness has some logic to it.

Re:What can you do?

[Tanuki64]

If I were a parent and I had read this article, it would probably scare me shitless. What would you do to protect your children from these kinds of threats -

Throw away the possibly poisonous stuff as soon as you learn about it and go on as always. Scared? Not at all. I am now 46. In my childhood all kinds of cool stuff was allowed, which now scare you nannies 'shitless'. I never heard of children dieing like flys then. On the contrary, it looks like the children were healthier in my time than they are now.

Some Actual Facts About US Manufacturing

[sjbe]

Which is why you should always buy American!

Oh wait...we don't make anything anymore.

The US has a manufacturing sector that produces over $2.6 Trillion annually - larger than any other country on earth including China and larger than the GDP of all but 5 countries. Total imports into the US are just over $2.1 Trillion (16% of those are from China) while US exports are around $1.3 Trillion. (only China and Germany export more)

But we don't make anything anymore... Right... Never let the facts stand in the way of a good sound bite.

The myth of choice...

[Gage With Union]

This presumes that there is always an ethical alternative. I think that the lobbying actions of the petroleum industry against environmental initiatives are terrible. Who should I buy my gasoline from, then?

Are you prepared to research everything that you buy to determine whether the corporation that sells it is involved in hazardous business? (and if so, I can only presume that that is your job) I'd love to buy exclusively from reputable businesses with ethical practices, but it is entirely impossible, especially given that most products are sourced from many companies.

Sometimes, it's almost impossible to not deal with certain companies, whether we'd like to or not. I'd challenge you to eliminate all products in your house that have association with Archer-Daniels Midland, a company convicted of one of the most notorious cases of international price-fixing.

Markets are great for some things, but they require laws. Regulations exist to force companies to behave more ethically than the market requires of them. The most effective regulations incentivize ideas that the market is unwilling or unable to support but that may be important for long-term growth. Try abolishing the FDIC and then stating that customers will just have to find a bank that will always make good decisions...

Domestic parts

[sjbe]

In addition, final assembly of Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Kia cars != building cars in the US.

Actually yes it does. Your assumptions about where parts are made are wildly out of date. In many cases it's just not economical to produce parts overseas, especially if you are producing in a Just In Time system like Toyota uses.

I've been an engineer in the auto industry and have been in parts plants throughout the US for virtually every major auto manufacturer myself. Most of the cars assembled here in the US have most of their parts made here too, even for the "foreign" brands. Those Hondas they make in Ohio usually have well over 50% and sometimes over 80% of the parts made here in the US or in Canada. I own a Honda that was assembled in Alabama and over 70% of the parts were made domestically.

A car is just the sum of its parts. If all the parts are made outside the USA, then the car can't really said to be, "Made in the USA."

Good thing the parts usually aren't made outside the US then.