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Google Attackers Identified as Chinese Government
forand writes Researchers, examining the attacks on Google and over 20 other companies in December, have determined 'the source IPs and drop server of the attack correspond to a single foreign entity consisting either of agents of the Chinese state or proxies thereof.'"
It couldn't be them. China would never do anything wrong.
That... or they'll just blame it on their status as a "developing nation" and that they shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Just wait for the posters who state that, just like 9/11, this was actually organized by the US Government to foster dislike of China to facilitate favorable actions by the US military.
Nothing.
Bad China! BAD! Now give me more cheap, exploitable labor. AWWWE, how can we stay mad at you!
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and tell them how proud you are that they finally took a stance befitting their "do no evil" stance. Better late than never, and they deserve our support for this courageous action. I for one have changed my mind about them significantly based on this single action alone.
I'd hope that this would be nice nice wake-up call to companies to use proper security procedures, but I'm guessing nothing will change.
If the EU can fine a US company for what amounted to unfair business practices, what should the US do to China? Debt? What debt?
I'm sure we'll respond with the same resolute and determined stance as we did with the Christmas Day Bomber.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
You do... I don't... I am sorry. China's success is based on them slowly taking elements of our culture combined with the fact that they have a country with the worlds highest population Having about a billion more people then the United States (300 million) occupying the same geographical size, and having many of the same resources. The question isn't wow look how strong china is, it is why isn't china so much more powerful. It is because their government/culture doesn't work well.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
This same thing has been said for a long time. The fact is in the majority of companies (Google/Defense industry excepted), is that security is the first area of a company to get hacked to bits. So I don't think it's so much a procedural issue as much as it is a fundamental problem with visibility. The only time security workers get noticed is when something goes wrong, because when nothing bad happens, it just looks to management like they're not doing anything yet taking a good portion of their budget. All that said, you're probably right, nothing will change.
Q.E.D.
If a foreign government had attacked non-digital assets of any US corporation, you would expect some kind of formal reprisal. Maybe not an airdrop of Marines, but certainly something more than Hilary Clinton threatening to write a stern letter.
What I have not doped out yet to my own satisfaction is whether the tepid response from Washington is the fault of the current administration, confusion regarding the digital nature of the breach and assets, or a little of both.
I think it has something to do with Chinese savings now being the foundation of much of the western economy, and the fact that China is a major nuclear power.
What China realised and the USSR didn't, IMO, is that they could forget the cold war and essentially buy the west with the west's own money.
/crazy theory
This is a substitute for a clever sig that fits within the maximum number of characters.
This question is repeated endlessly at almost every major world event, "Does this come as a surprise to anyone?"
Stop already, its just a useless waste of bits.
Google was never ambiguous that the reason they are threatening to leave is because the government was hacking their servers. The removal of the filtering was just an extra "fuck you!" to the Chinese government. They tried playing nicely with the Chinese and they still took advantage of them.
Too right. A 'tepid' response is one that comes from 'administration officials'. Hillz is cabinet level, and internationally respected to boot. If she sends a letter, odds are good that Hu Jintao reads it himself.
It actually is fairly shocking they found evidence the Chinese government was responsible. Usually it's just "hackers in China." Who the Chinese can disown.
You read that China was responsible in the same blog post that the attack was disclosed in, so you didn't really deduce anything of note.
I can't find the link to the actual report in TFA.
I don't doubt that there's a strong suggestion that the Chinese government was somehow involved in the intrusion attempts mentioned by Google, and generally it isn't Google's habit to lie or deceive in these high profile matters.
But two days after the Google announcement a report comes out saying "yes it's the Chinese government, yes it's them!"? Without obvious links to the actual report?
I just sense it's just the "security companies" trying to ride the PR bandwagon. I mean, it's just on everybody's mind, and "somebody had to say it out aloud". So you cobble together related bits and pieces and make a grand pronouncement, making everybody happy. But does it prove anything? Not until we find the evidence. Until then it's all just hearsay.
Besides, would you really base your conclusions on findings from "VeriSign's iDefense security lab"? From the company who tried to f*ck up NXDOMAIN?
This is not the end of the story. I suspect more juicy bits will come through.
Don't quote me on this.
1. a body of corporations (those 20 or so affected)
Nothing of note. If they pull out publicly, they will continue to work with the Chinese through third parties. Shareholders don't give a damn about human rights or free speech. They just want their money.
2. a nation
They've already sold us poisoned toys and drywall. They've been using what amounts to slave labor for decades in order to provide cheap products. As long as the aforementioned shareholders are running things, you're not going to hear about the problems, and the American populace is too apathetic to sacrifice any amount of convenience.
3. a global community of nations (UN)
They'll pass some resolutions denouncing interference in the sovereign affairs of other countries. They'll slide in some language about Palestine or Iraq, and it will be vetoed by the US and Israel and maybe a pacific atoll that happens to have a bathroom.
4. a cybercommunity
Learn Chinese and troll MSN Spaces?
The problem with this theory of winning the new cold war simply by buying the opponent is that it doesn't, and can't, lead to any kind of victory. By investing in US debt China has bound themselves in an unholy blood pact to the U.S. economy. We on some level need them to continue pouring money into the economy to pay for poorly thought out foreign policy, they on the other hand need us to continue to prosper or all of their investments become worthless. If one side wins both sides win, if one sides loose both sides loose. The Chinese have already shown their realization of this in their effort to keep interest rates low to prevent inflation from devaluing their assets.
Was that a long winded post for "The US is facilitating a Ponzi scheme, with China being the the bottom rung contributors."?
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
I don't expect there's much surprise that the Chinese government was behind the attacks, but usually we can't do anything about it because we can't prove they did it. Google is saying they can, which suddenly brings this from muttering about China to companies and governments being forced to confront the issue in fear of explicitly giving in to China's every whim, as opposed to the implicit submission we've seen so far.
My webcomic
What did Google and the rest of them expect, they got in to bed with a country that has little to no regard for the privacy of its own citizens, did Google honestly think they would be treated any different? I surely don't feel sorry for them. Google compromised so much in order to "compete in the world economy", and now they are shocked that they got bit?
The Scorpion and the Turtle.
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
Even if we took all our IPv4 addresses back, It won't make a difference. The Great Firewall of China will just start using NAT.
interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
They don't have to pull out, but removing "Most Favored Nation" trade status might help.
You mean everything will start pointing towards the Great IP of China?
Great....
Well, the "Christmas Bomber" is in prison right now, being prosecuted, and probably, at the end of the day, going to prison for a large number of years. I doubt the Chinese will help us do the same thing to their "warriors". Or did you just fumble a rather irrelevant (and stupid) slam against the current administration?
That is all.
I thought it was a scorpion and a frog (how does a scorpion sting a turtle in the back?)
Seriously, if all the corporations become as scrupulous as Google is suddenly seeming, it might end up giving Fascism a good name.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Foreign policy has nothing or very little to do with U.S. debt. The total Defense budget was around $600 Billion while the total budget was about $3 Trillion. About $100 Billion of defense was spent on the Iraq and Afghanistan.
The biggest drivers of U.S. debt are....the American People. They created the current recession by buying and selling real estate in a game of musical chairs they thought they would not lose at. They were aided by the Congress-critters and blood-suckers on Wall Street. This exposed the hollowing out of U.S. manufacturing by those other blood-suckers, Business School Product who were last spotted attempting to outsource their grandmothers to Asia.
There are other problems that space and blood pressure prevent me from expressing to an audience with such delicate sensibilities.
We can credit the corporations, the banks, and bonehead economists for this one.
Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
Western culture goes back to the ancient Greeks, Hebrews, Phoenicians, and even Egyptians. It is extremely likely that Western culture and Chinese culture share a lot of similar roots, and they definitely did a lot of cultural trading throughout the millennia. So clearly you are not referring to culture with your 'few thousand years' statement.
As for the current government, it's only been around for sixty or so. During that time they killed millions with famine caused specifically by poor government policy (the great leap forward: people were literally eating their own children. It was horrible). Then they killed and tortured millions more, in the temper tantrum of the youth known as the Cultural Revolution. This was once again encouraged and caused by poor government policy.
Furthermore, I don't think I need to go over all the things the government currently does that violates human rights. Let's just say when the torch came to San Francisco, protesters had to color coordinate so they could keep track of what exactly they were protesting.
Qxe4
They have. Don't confuse a free market with free people. On a free market, you are free to sell whatever you want, at whatever price you want. You are not necessarily free to say whatever you want.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
I think you need to give the Chinese more credit. As you've said, they have a billion more people than we do, yet those people are living on a similar sized landmass with similar resources. If there were a billion more people in America tomorrow, you can bet your ass that the interests on Wall Street would be aligned with Washington and implementing some serious production and other controls on the population. Look at what a big deal illegal immigration is. Americans are already stingy with resources and concerned about maintaining vague notions like "quality of life" for naturalized citizens. You can bet your ass that if there were a billion more people here, we'd have a Politburo like organization doing whatever was necessary to maintain their status while at the same time doing everything necessary to prevent a full on social uprising.
If you think China's government isn't effective, you have a very narrow view of the world. Spend a few hours researching what China is up to in Africa, and then contrast that with how well our State and Defense Departments are doing in that part of the world. Take a look at who is winning oil contracts in Iraq... Here, I'll save you the work (http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/international/iraq_oil/index.htm .. http://moneymorning.com/2008/08/22/china-iraq/) The Chinese don't have "terrorists" attacking their homeland because of misguided foreign policy blunders (warning, potential red herring).
Try "You can have this regular chocolate for 49 cents, or this 'fair trade' chocolate for 15 dollars".
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
Is this the norm now?
The 2 superpowers basically back-stab one another, and each just shrugs it off as business as usual? THAT is how International relations and business is going to continue flourishing?
This reeks of the powers that be maintaining a nice 'unstable' environment, just enough to put off 'social progress' for either side. On the U.S., see the opposite that is going on now... withering of rights, financially, as well as personal, and 'basic rights' still being suppressed in China.
Sadly, this sort of thing will be dealt with using kid-gloves and what amounts to a slightly louder than usual verbal warning. I hope the International Business community takes a good long look at this, and heeds the warning. China, no matter what the opportunity, is not a viable scenario for business.
I think your observation is apropos but could be strengthened a bit. Let's take it as writ that China's government is stealing. No doubt they have been stealing from Google as well. So in a world where information and its flow is your breadbasket, stealing information is like poking holes in the pipes leading to Google (1) losing control of information they are monetizing, (2) losing control over their own IP which is all that keeps them a step above their competitors (such as Baidu and a Chinese government backed Baidu that might attempt to compete worldwide with Google).
So, Google, looking down the road several years realizes that unless they make like difficult for the Chinese government to get away with kneecapping Google's income stream over time, they used their specialized knowledge to trap the Chinese government.
Another issue I think is that Google's control of information or at least monetizing it runs counter to the Chinese government's wish to do the same. There's no reason they would stop at controlling information within their borders. The interwebs have a way of allowing invasions of ideas, the very thing the Chinese government does not want lest their people get the idea the government is just a bunch of pikers who should be first up against the wall. So if Google came to the conclusion that the Chinese government's long term plan was a world-wide control of information, then they would have absolutely no reason to play the Chinese game and reducing their exposure to China in this instance is probably only Google's first step in what they might believe is going to be a long drawn out war.
Actually, China
The reason China is able to compete is because of a handful factors:
* Enslavement/enticement of foreign countries to utilize their natural resources (see: Africa)
* Cheap-as-fuck labor
* Wanton IP theft
* A docile populace
* Totalitarian state able to push all this through to the populace
* UN complicity towards Chinese abuse of standards which everyone else "has" to abide by. (See: pollution/global warming crap)
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
You're right. A much better response would be to stir up a holiday panic over the failed antics of a none-too-bright criminal. Oh wait...I mean a highly skilled international assassin who "almost" singlehandedly destroyed mom, baseball, and apple pie... Yep, I agree....there's a gang of "bad guys" who tried to kill us 9 years ago, who suddenly want to kill us "more" since we've swapped out Prez Tweedledee for Prez Tweedledum, and who are simultaneously smart enough to whip up a bio weapon in their kitchen while managing to be dumb enough to be detained in an airport security line for making a joke or buying a one-way ticket. Then, as now, we should lay the blame for the existence of these bad guys, the existence of all evil, and the poor self esteem we picked up in high school on one guy who's held office for a year rather than the several hundred who've held office for 50.... Now stop making rational arguments while I go back to living in Fear (of them, of us, it doesn't matter as long as I'm scared....except for driving on busted up roads in a 4 year old car on my way to the nearest gun range to film a jackass-style stunt to post on myspace to impress this guy who follows my twitter feed who finally wants to meet.......that doesn't scare me at all).
He who would be a man, must be a nonconformist. -- Emerson
Who said anything about being malicious? I'm simply suggesting that there are a few subnet ranges that might contain systems upon which one might explore and experiment.
WTF are you talking about... suicide attacks? How did we go from digital commerce to fanatical extremism that results in the loss of life?
Sorry, I was about to make a really rude and sarcastic comment here, but I won't.
Western culture began in the ancient Mediterranean thousands of years ago. You would find most aspects of modern western culture in ancient Greece, but a lot of it was around even before that. The major elements are government by representative democracy, the rule of law and emphasis on scientific legalism (I don't know what else to call it) in the fields of science and philosophy. Also the belief in the right to personal liberty for land owning males remains intact even today. Your claim that western culture is young is patently absurd.
You're trying to make a comparison between the age of the USA and the age of eastern culture. That comparison makes no sense.
You have bought something on walmart? perhaps any computer parts? oh well, YOU sponsored them, but we all can share the blame it's not like the only market for Chinese stuff is the US of A. Let's not talk about bankers.
Who else is waiting for the obligatory response by Chinese ambassadors?
"We, the Chinese people, do not appreciate your false reports of hacking, nor the false reports of the hackers being identified as Chinese agents. The Chinese government engages is no espionage of any nation, nor coerces anyone into anything against their will. Your comments have hurt the Chinese people's feelings. The internet in China is free. Please stop violating and respect our sovereignty and internal affairs. We demand an apology from the United States of America."
"I don't make much money and have three children. Where else am I going to buy my new TV?"
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
"It's a godsend, especially to lower income people living in small towns, that WalMart has broken up that operation."
Shortsighted people are always happy to save a dime, or a dollar. Those who can see further than the length of their noses look around to see where the money goes, and how it works after it's out of their pockets.
Money spent at Wal-Mart does your community no good. Money spent at Mom & Pop's all goes back into your community - minus restocking costs, of course.
Likewise, money spent on Chinese goods all goes to help China boot strap itself into the next "super power". Money spent on US goods goes right back into the United States.
I know - this is terribly complicated, and it might take months of study for the average consumer to understand this. But, this is why they are "consumers" and not "producers". Parasitic morons.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
because some people choose a better price for a consumer product, they are parasites compared to people who shop in mom and pop stores.
===================
Well - I've posted this many times, in many places. Take a consumer product. Just pick one. Find several samples from around the world. Really look at the quality of each sample. We know ahead of time, you can expect to find the best quality of some items in one locale, the best of another item somewhere else, etc. I'm going to pick knives and tools - something that I use a lot of.
Your standard open and box end wrench makes a good example. The market is flooded with cheap Chinese wrenches. I can buy an entire set of wrenches for the same price I pay for a single American made wrench. But - put those wrenches to work. The box end rounds out and slips after a short period of time - I look at it, it's CHINESE. I put the open end on a stubborn nut, and turn - just to have the wrench break in half. No big deal, you might say - except, when the wrench broke, I overbalanced and cracked my head into the machine I was working on. The doctor says I don't have a concussion - but he wants $100 for the office visit.
I could have bought three sets of American made wrenches for that office visit.
I mentioned knives. The US doesn't have the corner on good knives. Europe makes knives that are equal to anything we make. Get a good knife - Schrade, an older Buck, Case - pick a good knife. Walk through Wal-Mart, and pick up one of those cheap 2 to 5 dollar knives made in China. Take out your good quality US or Euro knife, and try carving pieces out of the Chinese knife. You bet your arse it will dull the good quality knife - but I can sharpen it up again. The Chinese knife? It might make good filler metal in a welded fitting, if you're not terribly demanding.
I kinda like knives - not a collector or anything, I just like them. I've seen some excellent knives from places that surprised me, starting with Japan, the Phillipines, South Africa. Strangely, I've never seen a single high quality knife made in China.
Dude - if you can't get basic metallurgy right, then how on earth can you get high tech right? Good steel isn't much more complicated than baking a cake, after all. You start with a proven recipe, measure carefully, take your time and get the heat right, mix properly - and the work is almost done. All that's left is cutting, rolling, forging, or otherwise shaping and forming.
Do Chinese bake? Come on - I'm sure you guys have breads, cakes, cookies, and other grain products. What's so hard about making good iron and steel? Maybe the problem is, no one really gives a shit.
Whatever. Quality. It isn't something a salesman puts into a product. It doesn't matter how much advertising hype Target puts out. When I walk into Target, and find a shirt with one sleeve longer than the other, it's a shit product. When we buy some milk chocolate, just to read headlines about melanine laced dairy products, it's a shit product. When homes are built with drywall from China which gives off corrosive fumes, that is a shit product.
But, "consumers" don't look at quality anyway. Don't mind me - I'm the odd man out in the US today. I expect things to perform, and to last. I don't look at the advertising, the packaging, or even the cosmetic finish of most products. I want performance and durability.
China's products are not known for either trait. Which is kinda funny. China has the most durable CULTURE in the world. (note, I didn't say government, or even society - I said culture)
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br