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Police Called Over 11-Year-Old's Science Project

Posted by samzenpus on from the duck-and-cover dept.

garg0yle writes "Police in San Diego were called to investigate an 11-year-old's science project, consisting of 'a motion detector made out of an empty Gatorade bottle and some electronics,' after the vice-principal came to the conclusion that it was a bomb. Charges aren't being laid against the youth, but it's being recommended that he and his family 'get counseling.' Apparently, the student violated school policies — I'm assuming these are policies against having any kind of independent thought?"

32 of 687 comments (clear)

  1. I recommend ... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Funny

    That everyone should stick some coloured wires into cardboard tubes, then leave them lying about all over the place. The more the merrier.

     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:I recommend ... by increment1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It isn't necessarily ineptitude that causes school officials to make decisions like this. The basic reasoning boils down to the fact that the school officials will take little if any flack for over reacting in the name of safety, but they will lose their jobs and be raked through the mud if they fail to react to an "obvious" threat.

      Part of the problem is that no one ever gets rewarded for the issues they chose to ignore. So there is no benefit to the principal to ignore what they think is a possible threat even if the probability of it being a threat is vanishingly small.

      The end result is that school officials with a high self interest will put their self interest in front of everyone else (the authorities who are wasting their time, the students out of class, the student directly involved, the parents who have to come pick up all the students early, etc), since they are more worried about the ramifications to themselves than the trouble they may cause for others.

    2. Re:I recommend ... by cool_arrow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it is stupidity. An intelligent principal could have ascertained the necessary information by sitting down with the student and asking questions calmly thereby by avoiding all the resulting mess.

    3. Re:I recommend ... by increment1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree, there is seemingly a large amount of stupidity involved in the situation.

      The principal not only could have, but SHOULD have interviewed the student to ascertain the risk. However, say the principal is sitting there with the student with a device with wires sticking out of it all over the place. The principal doesn't know enough about electronics to to be sure whether it is a safe device, or is indeed a bomb. Additionally, the principal doesn't trust the student since if it is a bomb the student probably wouldn't admit to it.

      So, given this situation, the principal, as a self optimizing and very self interested individual, decides that there is no advantage or reason for them to take the risk of trusting the student. They error way over on the side of caution since there is no compelling reason for them not to.

      Until there are actual ramifications for raising a false alarm, issues like this are not only likely to continue, but inevitable. If the school or principal was billed for the cost of a false alarm (or just a token percentage of it) then I would be will to bet that you would see the cases of false alarms drop dramatically.

    4. Re:I recommend ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      School administrators are often failed teachers or P.E. instructors with a career in the classroom that can be measured in 5 years or less. They are truly inept and feel that a tasted of the education system of any kind makes them qualified to then lead entire schools in turn.

      The man in this story is simply a moron who did not rationally discuss anything about the construction of the device with the child to draw intelligent conclusions. He had a knee-jerk reaction because that's what stupid people do when presented with things they don't - or refuse to - understand.

      Sadly this is absolutely the norm in school districts all across America, and has been for a few decades. The education system isn't flawed, just that the standards for these types of positions are _incredibly_ low.

    5. Re:I recommend ... by smokin_juan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The principal doesn't know enough about electronics..." How could he not know? He's overseeing a *technical* school. Does he ever venture out into the halls or talk to the kids? He's a fucking absentee landlord and deserves to lose his job two weeks ago. And shame on the parents for letting the gestapo inspect their house and suggest counseling after "da bomb" was determined to be harmless.

    6. Re:I recommend ... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In most cases, "Don't make Admin look stupid, especially if they are." is implied policy #0.

      This is in no way confined to schools, of course.

    7. Re:I recommend ... by StarsAreAlsoFire · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The solution is going to be that eventually kids will get used to the idea that they shouldn't bring things in that scare their administrators"
      *twitch*

      " unless we can somehow reduce the risk that people are going to come and shoot their classmates,"

      To negative numbers? The chances of a kid dying in a violent crime involving explosives at a school are so low that you need a scientific calculator to display them. Compare that to the mortality rate in high-school football: http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980610033631data_trunc_sys.shtml

      The problem won't be solved until idiots that fail to understand basic statistics aren't allowed to graduate high school. Though jailing any idiot that ever excuses incidents like this with any permutation of the phrase "they['re] do[ing] the best they can".

      There's a quote which I fear I cannot find in order to cite, but to paraphrase:
      "If all the well-intentioned were killed at birth, the remaining evil-doers would be small potatoes by comparison."

    8. Re:I recommend ... by markfinn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Those who can do,
      those who can't teach,

      From every good teacher you ever had:

      Fuck You.

    9. Re:I recommend ... by quanticle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The terrorists do not have to win in order for us to lose.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  2. Counseling gets the school off the hook by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the student supposed to get counseling for? The trauma the school put him through for no reason? More likely, so the school authorities can point to the fact that the kid got counseling to show something is wrong with him (and not them)

    I'd like to recommend the authorities get some counseling. Either that, or a clue, but counseling is easier to come by.

    1. Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would really like to know what policies these are, specifically. I'm too tired of hearing about people being raked through the mud for violating so-called policies.

      Once, when I was a student, I tried to get a copy of the school's policy manual. I was politely but firmly told to sit down and shut up. To be honest, I don't believe that such things even exist, or if they are they are so broadly defined as to be useless for informing behaviour.

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
  3. Lesson Learned by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't do anything to attract attention to yourself ever.

    1. Re:Lesson Learned by Narpak · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't do anything to attract attention to yourself ever.

      Anyone actively trying not to attract attention must be a terrorist!

      --
      The Long Now Foundation
  4. Apparently, not so much by studog-slashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The school, which has about 440 students in grades 6 to 8 and emphasizes technology skills, was initially put on lockdown while authorities responded.

    ...Stu

    1. Re:Apparently, not so much by studog-slashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The student violated school policies, but there was no criminal intent, Luque said.

      The policies emphasizing technology? Or the policies forbidding technology?

      The student will not be prosecuted, but authorities were recommending that he and his parents get counseling, the spokesman said.

      It is clear it is not the student that requires counselling.

      ...Stu

  5. Call themselves teachers? by nil_orally · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The real question is why are we letting people this stupid in charge of educating our children?

    1. Re:Call themselves teachers? by 15Bit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because the better ones cost more than you are willing to pay.

  6. Science fairs before High School.... by Upaut · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Tend to show the deranged thoughts of the teachers more than anything else... I remember my project netted me a month of drug counseling, because the application "could" of been used to grow cannabis.... The project was just a kid showing how plants grew differently in different media, hydroponically, with soil, with microorganisms that were advertised to help bind nitrogen in roots and increase growth, and with plant hormones. (All save hydroponically done in the same bag soil, just with the different additives...)

    So my project was removed, and I was instructed not to build any more hydroponic settups in my spare time... Which my parents told me to ignore in my own home, but still.....

    --
    3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
  7. Fucked up paranoia by Luc1fel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, it wasn't enough that the device from the poor kid (who showed some practical skills) was perfectly harmless, his home also had to be checked just in case he was a terrorist?

    That's fucked up beyond 1984.

  8. Re:We're on our way! by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the politicians wonder why it is that America has trouble getting kids interested in the sciences.

    I can understand that an assistant principle might not have any idea how bombs are made. There's no shame in that. However, he probably should have talked to the child's teacher before he called the fire department. My guess is that the kid had to tell his teacher ahead of time what he was making. I have never heard of a science fair where you weren't required to pre-register your experiment. How hard would it have been to talk the the science teacher before calling the bomb squad?

    Now, if the teacher thought that the device was a bomb (especially if he knew before hand that the kid was working on a proximity detector) then shame on him. I mean seriously, how hard would it have been to do a little research beforehand.

  9. Electronics are scary by chrysrobyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was in college, I would periodically bring my electronics homework home from Albany to Phoenix. I would usually work on it the entire time tray tables were allowed. Often I didn't need a textbook, only my engineering paper (overpriced graph paper) and my calculator. I would often make those next to me nervous, but obviously I couldn't harm anyone with paper and a pencil. Well, significantly anyway.

    As I got to the intermediate classes, I would often find myself with schematics, a bag of chips and wires, and a breadboard. Again, plenty of time to just sit there, I would wire up my breadboard with the chips, wires, and my Leatherman. I had more than a few flight attendants strike up a conversation with me long enough to find out that I was going home / to school, was an engineering student, and was working on a finite state machine / simple computer / complicated blinky light thing. "Wanna see? This is so cool! Watch these eight lights blink! I can program it with these switches!" The only time the conversation lasted even a sentence longer was when I was building laser tag. "No, it doesn't actually have any lasers, they just use that name because it sounds cool. It actually works like your remote control to your TV."

    Even at the time, I was fully aware that any technical work done in a public place would draw the skepticism, imagination, and periodically, fear of those around me. Of course, this was in the mid 90's. Times and personal liberties on airplanes in particular are very different. Now, they'd throw a fit if I tried to take my Leatherman near the plane, let alone the chips and bundle of wires running off a 9 volt. I'm much more mature now, and now I see no reason to make people uncomfortable on an airplane in order to stretch their preconceptions.

    The kid and his parents now learned a valuable lesson. Work transparently. Don't hide it in a bottle. When it's complete, more times than not, it shouldn't have a top case. If it needs a case, no external wires should be visible.

  10. another misleading summary by Main+Gauche · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you RTFA, it looks like the cops are saying that they should get counseling because the kid and parents were upset by the incident.

    Regardless of whether the search was reasonable, do you realize how misled you (and many others, including those who've responded to you) have been by the summary's "scare quotes"? The summary makes it sounds like the kid is being sent in for "reprogramming".

    I'm probably wasting my time typing this, because it won't change anything anyway. Slashdotters will primarily continue to curse the way the government misleads the citizens, then turn around and fall for this kind of crap.

    1. Re:another misleading summary by letsief · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree it's sort of hard to know one way or the other, but I think the author of the article is implying the student and parents need counseling so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. The article's statement about counseling was stated right after it discussed the fire officials searching the home for explosives. And, it was in the same paragraph that said the student wasn't going to be prosecuted, but violated school policies. The article does talk about the student and parents being upset, but that's a little later in the article.

      Maybe the author of the article is misleading us, but (somewhat uncharacteristically) Slashdot's summary seems to be pretty accurate.

  11. School policy by michaelmalak · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There you have it: using wires in a science project violates school policy.

    There's a new DVD out called The War on Kids. The thesis is that schools are prisons and are about surveillance, metal detectors, and control. One of the best parts is where they are receiving a tour through a school, and they ask to see the library, which has a high-security metal door with metal grate over the glass. The principal can't find the key and asks, "did you really need to get in here?"

    Learning is against school policy.

  12. If you REALLY want to let them know what you think by Chas · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the Contact Us page for Millennial Tech Middle School.

    http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/contact/?rn=8783875

    Maybe if enough people ask, they'll actually tell someone why they have a complete fucking moron in a position of scholastic authority over their kids.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  13. Protest To The School by jlb.think · · Score: 5, Informative

    What we should all do is send letters of protest to the school. I have just written them asking them to apologize to the student and his family. I have suggested that the vice principal in question should be counseled on the proper way to react in such a situation. I know the chances of the school issuing an apology is low, but enough of public pressure will eventually force them to. And anyone who lives near this school should be their for the next board meeting to protest what has been done. You can contact them here: http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/contact/

  14. Re:We're on our way! by Lorens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Reading the article (I know, but someone has to :-) ) it seems that it wasn't a Science Fair project, it was just something the kid had been playing around with at home and then brought it in to show his friends. The kid violated school policies

    No he didn't... the school policies are here:

    http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=58810&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=87933&hideMenu=1&rn=8708720

    After looking twice I can't even find the part where it says "may not bring guns or knives or other weapons", let alone "may not bring anything that could possibly at a distance be mistaken for something dangerous".

    and that is why they said he should get counselling.

    Personally I think the school should pay for counseling, since the only reason he would need it is for the trauma of being treated like a terrorist :-)

    So the school has a policy banning kids from being inventive and wanting to show that inventiveness off. Anyway - thats one kid the school system has scared off technology - well done San Diego Unified School District.

    The ironic thing is that this is supposed to be a "Tech Magnet" school. Quoting from their mission statement:

    All Millennial Tech Middle School students will cultivate their technology skills to enhance their motivation and curiosity to excel academically in order to become productive citizens that will drastically impact the developing information age.

    All Millennial Tech Middle School students will cultivate their science, technology, engineering, and mathematics skills to enhance their motivation to excel academically in order to become global leaders and productive citizens in their chosen career path.

    That sounds like the kids might be expected to construct fun things related to science.

    Granted, it also sounds like you should expect your kid to be traumatized by the teachers. Not by the police, though.

  15. What you say?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone set us up the bomb!!!

    We get signal!!!

    How are you idiots??? All your sense are belong to us!!!

  16. At my daughters school... by gbutler69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...they send home a "Rules and Policies" that must be signed by the Parents and the Student. I cross-out any ambiguous and ill-defined sections, initial them, then sign the document.

    --
    Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. I would have been sent to Guantanamo Bay by billybob_jcv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they treated kids like this in the 70's, I would have been declared a threat to the free world. I taught myself how to solder when I was 10, and I was into building all kinds of electronics kits and projects. I was also into model rocketry and built multi-stage rockets capable of reaching altitudes of 2500 ft. I brought crap to school to show my class all the time. Luckily, I didn't grow up to be an international terrorist - I became an engineer. We are in deep trouble when our education system treats the kids that should be leading us to the next technology leap forward as criminals.