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Newton's Apple Story Goes Online

Hugh Pickens writes "Although many historians are skeptical of the story, Rev. William Stukeley, a physician, cleric, and prominent antiquarian, wrote that he was once enjoying afternoon tea with Sir Isaac Newton amid the Woolsthorpe apple trees when the mathematician reminisced that he was just in the same situation as when the notion of gravitation came into his mind. It was occasioned by the fall of an apple, as he sat in contemplative mood. The original version of the story of Sir Isaac Newton and the falling apple first appeared in Stukeley's 1752 biography, Memoirs of Sir Isaac Newton's Life. Now BBC reports that UK's Royal Society has converted the fragile manuscript into an electronic book, which anybody with internet access will now be able to read and decide for themselves. 'The story of Newton and the apple, which had gradually become debunked over the years. It is now clear, it is based on a conversation between Newton and Stukeley,' says Martin Kemp, emeritus professor of the history of art at Oxford University's Trinity College. 'We needn't believe that the apple hit his head, but sitting in the orchard and seeing the apple fall triggered that work. It was a chance event that got him engaged with something he might have otherwise have shelved.'"

114 comments

  1. Apple Newton by Jazz-Masta · · Score: 5, Funny

    It took me a couple minutes to realize the story was not about the Apple Newton, leading into the rumored Apple Tablet...

    I didn't realize technology had such a hold on my perception of current and past events, as well as common sense.

    1. Re:Apple Newton by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      You clearly didn't recognize the gravity of your situation.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:Apple Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was about the PBS show. With Ira Flatow

    3. Re:Apple Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The english way of capitalizing words in titles doesn't help either.

    4. Re:Apple Newton by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      It took me a couple of minutes to realize the story was not about the Television Show.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    5. Re:Apple Newton by PPH · · Score: 1

      Now that you mention it: The Newton's character recognition results do look a lot like the writer was hit in the head by a falling object.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Apple Newton by OldSoldier · · Score: 1

      It took me a couple minutes to realize the story was not about the Apple Newton, leading into the rumored Apple Tablet...

      I didn't realize technology had such a hold on my perception of current and past events, as well as common sense.

      Me too. And add another one... I also couldn't tell if it meant the background development of the TV show "Newton's Apple"

    7. Re:Apple Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I fell for that one too...

    8. Re:Apple Newton by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Names of companies and branded products are usually capitalized anyway, title or not.

      As, for future reference, are names of countries and words derived therefrom.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Apple Newton by IshmaelDS · · Score: 1

      It just struck me, and yes this is completely off topic, that we should have a "Troll Feeding" mod, cause this guy isn't really a troll, but he is definatly feeding them. ah well, just my random thought for the day

      --
      letting an idiot know they are an idiot is not a game... it's a responsibility. - by Kristopeit, M. D. (1892582)
    10. Re:Apple Newton by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      "On the contrary, gravity is the foremost thing on my mind" -- Kirk

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    11. Re:Apple Newton by sigxcpu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, I would expect them to get a DMCA takedown letter from Apple's lawyers any minute now.

      --
      As of Postgres v6.2, time travel is no longer supported.
    12. Re:Apple Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no names of companies or branded products in this summary.

    13. Re:Apple Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Summary (what you wrote now) != title (what you wrote before).

      And did I imagine a company called Apple, who made a handheld device called the Newton?

    14. Re:Apple Newton by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The english way of capitalizing words in titles doesn't help either.

      The English way of punctuating would have helped though:

          'Newton's Apple' Story Goes Online

      (and no, nobody cares that the quotes don't balance)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    15. Re:Apple Newton by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      To be fair though, I'd think a story about the Apple Newton would be more likely than a story that happened hundreds of years ago.

    16. Re:Apple Newton by lfourrier · · Score: 1

      I first (mis)read that the Newton App Store was going online

    17. Re:Apple Newton by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Names of companies and branded products are usually capitalized anyway, title or not.

      Yeah, but consider that Apple sells computers whose file systems are case-insensitive. So even if you distinguish "apple falling" from "Apple falling", Apple's lawyers probably won't.

      (This fact has sufficed to exclude Apple servers for several projects that I've worked on. We decided it was OK to develop stuff on OS X, but porting stuff to OS X from any other system can be full of gotchas because of file-name confusion. It's amazing how often this can trip you up, and how long it can take to track down the source of the bizarre behavior. And stuff that came from another caseless system, e.g. MS Windows, doesn't do much better, because the rules for confusing characters are subtly different. Thus, OS X and Windows both also munge file names with Unicode "combined characters", but they seem to do it slightly differently. But this is probably off-topic here, where we should only be discussing "apples", not "Apple's". Outside of Windows and OS X, there's a difference. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  2. There is no apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then you'll see, it is not the apple that falls, it is only yourself.

  3. Neil DeGrasse Tyson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Listen to what Neil DeGrasse Tyson has to say about Newton:

    Neil DeGrasse Tyson on the Genius of Sir Isaac Newton

    I 100% agree. BTW you should look into Tyson's works too. He's a pretty intelligent, smart person.

    1. Re:Neil DeGrasse Tyson by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      He's a pretty intelligent, smart person.

      That's racist!

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  4. It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A lot of times, the truth isn't relevant. We have made many heroes in society, and we didn't do it for them: We did it for ourselves. A lot of people we call heroes don't deserve it. Many of them didn't do anything at all. For example, United Airlines Flight 93: We have o objective proof of any kind that the passengers staged any kind of revolt, save a vague phone call. But we deified them into heroes after the tragedy as a symbol of hope. It doesn't matter whether the story is true or not. We needed something to symbolize strength and found it there.

    It doesn't matter if the Apple hit Newton on the head or not. What matters is that it is a colorful story that explains the spirit of scientific discovery. It's the same with Einstein -- how many different ways has popular culture misattributed his discovery of the theory of relativity, or attributed a quote to Einstein that was really by somebody else (or made up). The story of Einstein endures as much because of his scientific achievement as because of popular culture stories that give people hope. Specifically, the hope that if they are smart and study hard, they can achieve great things. Today's sociological research rejects the contention that intelligence has any real bearing on success -- success is a combination of factors, of which intelligence can sometimes help a person.

    We use stories and heroes in scientific literature the same as in any other: To convey our values. As far as I'm concerned, the Apple hit Newton on the head--even if it didn't.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by jandoedel · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. Truth actually matters a lot for scientists...

    2. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually we do have evidence that the passengers of flight 93 tried to break into the cockpit, namely the flight recorders record the hijackers discussing the revolt.

    3. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      girlintraining, you are my hero. Actually, you're not, but that's irrelevant, the point is that I could have predicted 99% of the posts in this thread, but your post was refreshingly different, it gives me hope that living in denial is not such a bad thing as long as believing in fairy tales has some positive effect on society.

    4. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually we do have evidence that the passengers of flight 93 tried to break into the cockpit, namely the flight recorders record the hijackers discussing the revolt.

      We don't know who may have been trying to break into the cockpit, only that there were signs of a struggle on the other side of the door. For all we know, the passengers could have been fighting amongst themselves. There's no way for anyone to know what really happened on the other side of that door. But every one of them, whether they did something or not, was declared a hero and there are plaques all over the country listing their names.

      This was my only point: It doesn't matter what they did, what matters is that the story of people fighting back displays a cultural value that we needed to reinforce after 9/11. We don't make people heroes because of what they do, we make them heroes because of what we need.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      girlintraining ... your post was refreshingly different

      Actually, I thought the most refreshing part of the comment was I didn't even realize it was her. She didn't mention her gender or sexuality at all!

    6. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 0

      it gives me hope that living in denial is not such a bad thing as long as believing in fairy tales has some positive effect on society.

      I know you're trying to be funny, but science isn't much different than other faith systems: It is a method of inquiry, it has certain things that are beyond question (axiomic), and it seeks to answer fundamental questions about the universe. It also believes in fairy tales like zombie cats in boxes, as a way of conveying values and knowledge of the world. Even a broken model can yield useful results -- likewise for our cultural stories. They don't have to be based in fact to have relevance and value in our lives.

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    7. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A rare event, indeed.

    8. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry. You were saying something?

    9. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by antifoidulus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Could you please at least consult wikipedia before saying stuff like this? Directly from the wiki:

      Another hijacker responded, "No. Not yet. When they all come, we finish it off."

      The hijackers were in fact aware that the passengers were revolting and trying to get into the cockpit. Read the damned article if you don't believe me.

      So yeah, you don't really have a point.

    10. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha... wait, you were serious?

      Most scientists don't give a shit about truth, most care about money and fame, now THAT IS TRUTH, NOT A TROLL.
      Even better if they can get there without doing a bit of work and taking all the glory for the "discovery".

      Just because someone works in the science fields doesn't mean to say you can automatically rule them out of jealousy, corruption and greed.
      And nowhere else is this as apparent as it is in the drugs industry.

    11. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      A lot of times, the truth isn't relevant.

      Yes, like when you don't care about something. This is a story that talks about whether something actually happened. The truth matters in such a case.

      It doesn't matter if the Apple hit Newton on the head or not. What matters is that it is a colorful story that explains the spirit of scientific discovery.

      There are lots of wonderful, "colorful" stories in history. We don't need to make them up to have examples of "the spirit of scientific discovery."

      It's the same with Einstein -- how many different ways has popular culture misattributed his discovery of the theory of relativity, or attributed a quote to Einstein that was really by somebody else (or made up).

      Lots. But if I want to know what Einstein actually thought about something, I want to know whether he actually said it. That's a matter of history.

      The story of Einstein endures as much because of his scientific achievement as because of popular culture stories that give people hope. Specifically, the hope that if they are smart and study hard, they can achieve great things.

      Yeah... um, Einstein's story would be inspirational even if we didn't make things up about him or assign quotations to him that he didn't say. So what's your point?

      We use stories and heroes in scientific literature the same as in any other: To convey our values. As far as I'm concerned, the Apple hit Newton on the head--even if it didn't.

      You know, you sort of have an argument here, but then you take it too far. Certainly when we write history, we choose certain people to write about and certain stories to tell about them. We choose certain facts out of the historical record to construct a narrative, and in the process, we might take some things out of context.

      But there's a difference between selecting some historical facts to construct a story and actually making stories up out of events that didn't happen.

      Historians sometimes get it wrong. But the reasoning of "well, we can just make up a story about history to express our values" is what starts you down the slippery slope to rewriting history for political reasons, burning history books, and even things like holocaust denial.

      I know you would probably say that's exaggeration. But if you give up the idea of a "historical fact," where do you actually draw the line?

    12. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by dan828 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Money and fame? In science? WTF you been smoking? Most scientists get paid fuck all, work long hours, and even the top ones in their field are mostly unknown to most everyone but their others that work in the same field.

    13. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by xaxa · · Score: 1

      What?

      Science doesn't require any beliefs, and anything that's found to be incorrect is abandoned (you know what I mean).

      Plenty of science has nothing to do with any fundamental questions. That's people, not science.

    14. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Gerafix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, that's why you see all those darn greedy attention whoring scientists on American Idol.

    15. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can understand "It doesn't really matter if an apple hit him on the head or not, so let's stop trying to decide if it really happened".

      But I'm not so sure about "It doesn't really matter if an apple hit him on the head or not, so let's claim it to be true". The argument about stories sounds worryingly close to the "They're just stories, honest" arguments made when religious people make claims about things being true, when we have no evidence for them.

      Specifically, the hope that if they are smart and study hard, they can achieve great things. Today's sociological research rejects the contention that intelligence has any real bearing on success -- success is a combination of factors, of which intelligence can sometimes help a person.

      So surely this is an example of where the truth does matter, and where it may be an issue for people to believe that "if they are smart and study hard, they can achieve great things" when actually that isn't true?

      The thing that annoys me about the apple story is that it creates the impression that it's ideas that are important - it wasn't the insight, intellect and hard work in developing calculus and formulating a theory of gravity that mattered, rather that it all came in an instant with a single idea. It's this thought process that leads people to thinking that any idea they have is important - as opposed to what you do with it. It also leads to claims that ideas should be protected, for example, through copyright or patent law.

    16. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is a method of inquiry, it has certain things that are beyond question (axiomic), and it seeks to answer fundamental questions about the universe.

      So not at all like religion, which doesn't inquire, and doesnt answer those questions.

      It also believes in fairy tales like zombie cats in boxes, as a way of conveying values and knowledge of the world.

      There is no belief. Presumably you're referring to the thought experiment in quantum mechanics which is just that, a thought experiement. No one claims this cat in a box exists. And the claims about what might happen in that experiment are supported by overwhelming amounts of evidence.

    17. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Science doesn't require any beliefs, and anything that's found to be incorrect is abandoned (you know what I mean).

      Belief, def: "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof."

      Axiom, def.: a universally accepted principle or rule.

      Interesting, isn't it, how close those two definitions are to each other. Science does, in fact, depend on believing things that can't be proved.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    18. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by antifoidulus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, I didn't resort to childish insults, but you alas you lack such maturity. Why would the hijackers make up something like that? For giggles? Why would they crash the plane before reaching their target? For kicks? By your standard of "proof" we cannot prove anything because there were not witnesses. There aren't witnesses to a lot of plane crashes and yet we can figure out what happened. Ditto for murders.

      By the way, you oh so conveniently switched your argument from the passengers as a group(and no evidence they staged a revolt other than a vague phone call), and I quote:

      United Airlines Flight 93: We have o objective proof of any kind that the passengers staged any kind of revolt, save a vague phone call.

      to an argument that says we cannot prove which passengers staged the revolt. Bravo! Bravo! You win the slashdot argument award, ie prove I'm right no matter how much I have to change my definition of right.

      Again, congrats on the name calling!

    19. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Wow, I didn't resort to childish insults,

      No, just being thick, which is frustrating enough as it is without you being a pompous ass to boot.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    20. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by antifoidulus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Being thick = disproving you?

    21. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, I'm referring to the whole of mathematics, one of the cornerstones of science.

      Maths isn't science, but even so, it still doesn't require beliefs. And whilst we're at it, science and maths aren't people - they don't and can't have beliefs.

      So come on, what are these "fairy tales like zombie cats in boxes" you allege are asserted by maths or science, or whatever it is you are saying?

      Science also has a few tenets of faith, like occam's razor.

      That's not a requirement of science, nor a belief - it's a principle that makes science either (by making models not more complex than they need be).

      You can run from these basic truths all you want, but when you boil it all down, science is based on a finite number of beliefs, from which every conclusion it can make is derived from.

      Conclusions are made from observation and evidence.

    22. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Axioms are part of maths, not science.

      Interesting, isn't it, how close those two definitions are to each other.

      By "close", you mean different. Axioms are chosen because they have useful properties in forming a set of mathematics that we are interested in.

      No one is required to believe an axiom to be true - in fact, this is clearly not the case, as we can take different axioms, and build different mathematical systems from them. It's no more a "belief" than me choosing what colour t-shirt I'm going to wear today.

      Science does, in fact, depend on believing things that can't be proved.

      Such as?

    23. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well Einstein’s relativity already fucked it up pretty good. In a relative universe, there is little absolute truth.
      But only in duet with Heisenberg was it finally a FUBAR of epic proportions. Now truth is only whatever you look at. And since everyone is standing at a different relative point in spacetime, everyone sees everything differently. ;)

      Without us constantly ignoring that all we know is interpreted by our brain, after being processed by our senses, after mostly coming out of a second or even third or fourth hand, with no proof at all that the result that we then store, defined trough its relativity, is in any way related to any “truth”, we would go completely and utterly crazy...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    24. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bull.

      Science accepts without question that humans are reasonable, logical, and observant. If a proof of that is neccessary, then we are in terrible times indeed. Everything else in Science follows from propositional logic and is therefore falsifiable, meaning that we do not have a "Belief" in those results. We only have a "Belief" in the scientific process.

      Really,

    25. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      P.S.: No, I was not completely serious! ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    26. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Maths isn't science, but even so, it still doesn't require beliefs.

      Okay, well, when you stop believing that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees, let me know how that works out for you. Axioms are beliefs: They're taken as true and do not require proofs.

      --
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    27. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      "We have o objective proof of any kind that the passengers staged any kind of revolt, save a vague phone call. "

      This statement has been comprehensively debunked in the thread below, and you would be wise to retract it.

    28. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by idji · · Score: 1

      I think you believe the Bible too, all of it - including the first page. Or this is your consolation why the "others" believe the Bible.

    29. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by xaxa · · Score: 1

      There are several ways to prove that the angles in a triangle sum to 180.

      Axioms in mathematics vary, but here are the most common. It's a while since I studied this, but the first one means (I think), "starting from zero, and counting upwards, we will never again get zero". The second one means something roughly like "for all x and all y, if the successor of x (i.e. x+1) is equal to the successor of y (i.e. y+1) then x is equal to y".

      Axioms don't require proofs, but they do require a strict (and preferably very narrow) definition.

    30. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by hanabal · · Score: 1

      I think you meant managers with the drug reference. the scientists, while not exactly free from blame, are just doing their jobs

    31. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by arethuza · · Score: 1

      The angles of a triangle don't have to add up to 180 degrees if you consider Non-Euclidean Geometries.

    32. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Okay, well, when you stop believing that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees

      I don't believe that. In the 19th Century, mathematicians constructed non-Euclidean geometries, and those work out just fine.

      I only believe that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees given those certain initial axioms of Euclidean geometry. But nowhere do I believe those axioms are true. In terms of mathematics, there is no need for us to believe any one set of axioms to be true. In terms of the physical universe, in fact we may well live in a Universe where the angles of a triangle don't add up to 180 degrees - the way to determine this is through observation and evidence.

      I'm still curious what you meant by "fairy tales like zombie cats in boxes"?

    33. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      That's not a requirement of science, nor a belief - it's a principle that makes science either

      Gah, I meant "it's a principle that makes science easier".

    34. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by epine · · Score: 1

      This might not be a popular observation in some circles, but there is a certain brand of religious sentiment rooted in separation disorder and potential collapse of the boundaries of self. In this tent, god functions as an auxiliary shoring pole. Somehow, despite insuperable odds against this, some of us manage to function without one.

      Without us constantly ignoring that all we know ... defined through its relativity, is [not] in any way related to any "truth", we would go completely and utterly crazy...

      Hang onto that pole, buddy, it's all you've got.

      I'm deferring my personal rapture of completely and utterly for the debut screening of the Total Perspective Vortex, arriving in theatres near you not long after the Kurzweilian singularity cures humanity of our misguided detour into sexual reproduction—that whole Adam and Eve and apple thing.

      Seriously, this absolutist depiction of truth is highly overrated, best suited for the bully pulpit or some taffy-stretched argument about the interlocking nature of determinism and free will. Truth does not amount to moral certainty. It's not a slice of lembas bread wrapped in the silver leaves of the fruitless Mallorn tree (sparing the elves forbidden knowledge, but also leaving them a mite hazy on the inner workings of general relativity).

      The smallest apparatus I've yet discovered to explore the relationship between truth and certitude is Ackermann's VTOL exhaust-fume reburner. Fits nicely on a napkin in your driveway, until you light the match.

      Ackermann function

      You might wish to save your efforts to compute A(10,10) for the infinite afterlife, should you believe in one. By a little known corollary, the computed value of A(10,10) is exceeded in magnitude only by the number of unanswered emails in your eternal inbox when you triumphantly roll down your timeless sleeves. Not even a sonic boom as this functions punches effortlessly through the Googleplex.

      Doesn't require much skill to compute on eternal parchment, but you will need a large stack of reliable bookmarks and a tendency not to daydream. It could even be done with a large system of jars and marbles, if you're not afraid of heights. I'm told the TPV is stunning to behold from above, but I don't think standing up there on a ladder at the rim of the marble jar I could let go of both rails long enough to plink marble. I think I'd have to use my mouth and not swallow too many on the long ascent. A belly full of marbles would make the climb severely unpleasant. On the trip back down, you can measure Plink's constant.

      Really, people who stand on truth eternal haven't given a mayfly's wet dream to the highly intractable application of truth, which is not a small matter, intractability having been baked by god into the integers themselves. As Babbage amended Descartes: I count, therefore the greater portion of certitude lies forever beyond my ken.

      Finally, here's one that most people don't know. What did Maxwell say when the apple fell?

      "Missed me by that much."

    35. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Axioms are beliefs: They're taken as true and do not require proofs.

      Not really. Axioms are assumptions. You can move back and forth freely between sets of assumptions, something you can't do with beliefs. Yes, people do change their beliefs, but it's generally a slow and difficult process, whereas a mathematician might move between the axioms of Euclidean and hyperbolic geometry several times in an hour.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    36. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      So not at all like religion, which doesn't inquire, and doesnt answer those questions.

      The histories of some religions are full of inquiry -- Thomas Aquinas in Catholicism comes to mind. And most religions answer fundamental questions. Now, they may have been doing the inquiry in a way that's not back by empirical reasoning ("I was wondering about XYZ, so I looked it up in the Bible, and I prayed really hard") and so get answers that are wrong ("God did it"), but religion most definitely can feature inquiry about fundamental questions.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    37. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Science doesn't require any beliefs

      While science does try to minimize axioms, it requires a belief in an objective material universe about which observations can be accurately made and reported, even second- or third-hand. Some philosophers would question the existence of objective reality. And the unreliability of eyewitness observations, much less hearsay, is known to many lawyers.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    38. Re:It doesn't matter what the truth is by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The histories of some religions are full of inquiry -- Thomas Aquinas in Catholicism comes to mind. And most religions answer fundamental questions.

      Well indeed they inquire, but do they give us the answer, is more what I mean. (By answer, I mean the correct one, not made up ones.)

  5. not news by trb · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If you web search for the text, you will find it quoted in various web pages and books (not all recent).

    for example, search for this text:

    "amidst other discourse he told me he was just in the same situation"

    1. Re:not news by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      If you web search for the text, you will find it quoted in various web pages and books (not all recent).

      You're right, e.g., this page seems to have the whole text of the book. However, (a) it is kind of cool to see it so directly, as written by one of Newton's contemporaries, and (b) very few people probably know about it. I'm a physics teacher, and I've been telling people for years that the story was probably true because Newton's niece remembered him telling it to her. I'd never heard that Stukeley also attested to the story. Here's my own transcription of the relevant page.

      After dinner, the weather being warm, we went into the garden and drank tea under the shade of some apple trees, only he and myself. Amidst other discourse, he told me, he was just in the same situation, as when formerly, the notion of gravitation came into his mind. Why should that apple always descend perpendicularly to the ground, thought he to himself, occasioned by the fall of an apple, as he sat in a contemplative mood. Why should it not go sideways, or upwards? but constantly to the earth's center? Assuredly the reason is, that the earth draws it. There must be a drawing power in matter. The sum of the drawing power in the matter of the earth must be in the earth's center, not in any side of the earth. Therefore does this apple fall perpendicularly or toward the center. If matter that draws matter, it must be in proportion to its quantity. Therefore the apple draws the earth as the earth draws the apple.

      There's also the question of whether the story was actually true. This page quotes Gauss as saying, "Undoubtedly, the occurrence was something of this sort: There comes to Newton a stupid importunate man, who asks him how he hit upon his great discovery. Newton. . . wanted to get rid of the man [and] told him that an apple fell on his nose; and this made the matter quite clear to the man, and he went away satisfied." Actually the Stukeley quote doesn't sound like that at all. It sounds more like Stukely was hanging out with his friend Newton, who was probably somewhere on the Asperger-autism spectrum, and Newton suddenly saw something that triggered a memory, and proceeded to give his friend a total core-dump on his scientific theory.

      One of the reasons historians tend to be skeptical about this kind of thing is that scientists tend to rewrite history in order to make themselves seem more original, and their accomplishments more amazing. It's more glamorous to think that Miles Davis played jazz based on pure inspiration. It's less glamorous to imagine Miles Davis practicing scales and arpeggios for hour after hour. You get into similar issues when you try to figure out whether or not Einstein was really influenced by the Michelson-Morley experiment or not.

      Newton was quite a character. He was actually more interested in alchemy and arian theology than in physics. If his religious views had been public, he'd have been prosecuted as a heretic for sure. He may have been gay (which would have been another way to get in big legal trouble in that century). (But don't believe the B.S. meme that he was an astrologer. He specifically went on record as saying that he looked into astrology and thought it was stupid.)

    2. Re:not news by trb · · Score: 1
      I agree that it's interesting to read the manuscript, I enjoyed looking at it. I agree that it's interesting to think about the Newton's apple story. But I think the way the BBC describes the project is simply misleading. They write:

      "The UK's Royal Society converted the fragile manuscript into an electronic book, which anybody with internet access will now be able to read."

      Saying "will now be able to read" implies that we were not able to read it before. That's just not true. Yes, we can see the image of the manuscript. But it would have been as easy to ponder the credibility of the story while reading a printed copy of the text (which has always been available), which we settle for in every other case in literature.

  6. Woosh! by fotoguzzi · · Score: 1

    *Splat*

    --
    Their they're doing there hair.
    1. Re:Woosh! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Did you just woosh yourself? Because you’re the only one I see that did not get it. ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  7. My eyes! by Zerth · · Score: 1

    All those s/f things make my eyes bleed. I'm glad that dropped out of modern handwriting, but the new s isn't much better.

    Die, handwriting cursive script. Block letters or fancy computer fonts for everyone.

    1. Re:My eyes! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Die, handwriting cursive script. Block letters or fancy computer fonts for everyone.

      You are a soulless, brainless quasi-robotic drone, lacking any cultural sensitivity or artistic taste, and blessed with the attention span of a battered goldfish, and the wedding tackle of a hamster.

      Oh, and I disagree about the handwriting.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  8. Blogs by symes · · Score: 0

    This is the problem with the modern world. No one will write books about how important events unfolded, how chance occurrences led great minds to think through problems in new ways, and where and how the great and the good were inspired. Stuff just gets blogged, lost in an electronic ocean of mediocrity and then accidentially deleted. The next generations are just going to be left with incompatible file formats.

    1. Re:Blogs by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blogs are roaming the earth yet best seller lists continue on. Go figure.

    2. Re:Blogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Several Archiving agencies crawl blogs
      2) several companies attempt to back this information on to human readable storage, such as microfiche, paper and the like. (human readable without computers to be precise)
      Some have even went as far as creating a disc writer that literally burns the data on to the disc for long term storage. (and using tougher materials for the disc of course)
      This won't help if computers get destroyed and we got sent back in to the "stupid" ages, but when you consider that, i don't think many people would care much about someone's rant on Avatar.
      3) We have even more efficient ways of writing now, it is called the printer. And a lot of people still print documentation, politics, current events, etc.
      Newspapers alone are one of the largest archives of current goings-on these days. (even if some are corrupt)
      And again, printing someone's thoughts on Avatar or the countless other trillion pointless thoughts that go through peoples blogs each day, i think i would have to file this one under Not An Issue.
      I can't see historians in 100-200+ years time caring in the slightest that Tony247 was unhappy with the 4th Spiderman movie, or that JessicaHotStuff hates men and is going lesbian. The general popularity of films is already listed in paper now, as are countless reviews.
      Just because someone can speak to X listeners, doesn't mean what they say has any worth, just look at /b/ on 4chan.

    3. Re:Blogs by ultramk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right, because nobody writes about stuff like that any more.

      Hey man, just cause you're not reading them, doesn't mean they aren't being written. You also seem to think that writing is a zero-sum game: that the more is blogged, the less is published in a more permanent fashion. It just ain't so: today's blog is often just a more sharable and immediate addition to lab notes. The phrase is still "publish or perish", not "post or perish".

      --
      You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
    4. Re:Blogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be leveling the impression that the immodern world was a paragon of record-keeping and preservation. I don't think that's actually the case.

  9. Imagine by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of falling apples....

    Oh, this isnt about the Mac, is it?

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Imagine by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I imagine it would look something like this.

  10. Trinity College ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is at Cambridge, not Oxford.

    Unless there's another one hiding in there somewhere, I dunno.

    1. Re:Trinity College ... by reverseengineer · · Score: 1

      There's a Trinity College at both Cambridge and at Oxford: Trinity College, Oxford.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    2. Re:Trinity College ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My apologies, I assumed it was a typo and should have read Cambridge due to the Newton connection!

      Mea Culpa.

    3. Re:Trinity College ... by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      There's a Trinity College at both Cambridge and at Oxford: Trinity College, Oxford.

      That makes it handy for OxBridge students.

  11. Fortunately by snarkh · · Score: 3, Funny

    Newton's apple was better received than Apple's Newton.

  12. Cue apple fanbois in 3 2 1 by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm partial to Granny Smith, Pink Ladies, and Honeycrisp myself. I bet Newton's apple was a generic unnamed variety.

    1. Re:Cue apple fanbois in 3 2 1 by wbackner · · Score: 1

      Jonagolds can be quite juice and tasty as well.

    2. Re:Cue apple fanbois in 3 2 1 by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      Red and yellow speckled skin on an apple is saying "come here monkey...this tastes good".

      red delicious my ass.

    3. Re:Cue apple fanbois in 3 2 1 by BobNET · · Score: 1

      I bet Newton's apple was a generic unnamed variety.

      Flower of Kent, maybe...

  13. Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me or every other slashdot story is about apple?!

  14. back to Eden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    regardless of the story's veracity as fact, it is symbolically sound:

    The fruit from the tree of knowledge, under the power of gravity, fell and struck Newton in the centre of his intellect.

    1. Re:back to Eden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only problem there is that the tree of knowledge was probably not an apple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_fruit Honestly though, who's splitting hairs if we're getting symbolic?

  15. I for one, will buy it by nilbog · · Score: 5, Funny

    Man the rumors on this new force thing are really ramping up leading up to Apple's expected event at the end of the month. I've heard some people claim that it is a whole new force while others are just complaining "aww... it's just another form of the same old electromagnetism we've seen."

    Whatever it is, Apple doesn't disappoint very often. I've heard speculation that they'll be calling it "iGravity" or something similar. Now this headline is saying that it will go online somehow. I can't wait!

    --
    or else!
    1. Re:I for one, will buy it by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      They invented calculus, dont you know.

      Well actually they were beaten to it by some German company a few hundred years earlier. But Apple's version "works better", it just does, honest!

  16. Berthold Brecht said, in Galileo by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1
    "Unglücklich das Land, das keinen Helden hat", entgegnet Galilei im Theaterstück, "Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat."

    (Unlucky is the land that has no heroes....unlucky is the land that needs heroes". Sadly, the fact that the US has such a need of heroes points to something wrong in the US psyche. I have sometimes felt that the US need for heroes derives, in fact, from a fear caused by the lack of social security and medical security in the US. Social democracies like Sweden don't need heroes.

    I would also add that sociological research says no such thing, and I challenge you to produce a list of reputable papers that suggest that IQ is not correlated with income or social class, other than popsci books.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Berthold Brecht said, in Galileo by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      I would also add that sociological research says no such thing, and I challenge you to produce a list of reputable papers that suggest that IQ is not correlated with income or social class, other than popsci books.

      How about the American Psychological Association...

      "The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6." Source ... "The American Psychological Association's report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns states that other individual characteristics such as interpersonal skills, aspects of personality etc. are probably of equal or greater importance."

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  17. This is why ... by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... gravity wsn't discovered by a Hawaiian scientist. It would have been a coconut and he would have been killed when it hit his head. No theory of gravity.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:This is why ... by radtea · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would have been a coconut and he would have been killed when it hit his head. No theory of gravity.

      Although it is true that falling coconuts kill more people every year than sharks, it is not clear why you think Newton was hit on the head by an apple.

      The text makes it obvious he was seeing an apple fall (probably more than one if he really sat in an orchard for any length of time. It's fairly rare that we have an opportunity to observe a freely falling object from a distance, and orchards are excellent places for such observation.

      Newton's reflections as reported by Stukeley are just what one would expect of genius, as well: he asks himself why something that is commonplace and taken for granted happens the way it does, rather than just assuming "well of course that's the way it happens... how else could it be?" He imagines the apply falling sideways, or upwards, and realizes that it's fall is always perpendicular to the surface of the Earth, which is to say toward the centre, rather than toward any other part of it.

      I guess if non-scientists historians were reading this over the last 300 years they might have "debunked" it based on their ignorance of the way scientists think, but it seems quite plausible to me, and the sort of thing a mere biographer at the outset of the scientific revolution would be unlikely to be able to invent so plausibly.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    2. Re:This is why ... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Although it is true that falling coconuts kill more people every year than sharks,

      And we haven't even addressed those diabolical coconuts with lasers....

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:This is why ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it was a joke. you try to come off like you know something but the fact is that you look like a fucking fool. and whatever dipshit modded you up is a humorless gimp too.

  18. You have that story all wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You've got the story all wrong. While it's true that the hijackers, not the passengers, downed that flight, there's plenty of evidence (from the flight recorder and elsewhere) that they did it because the passengers were trying to retake the plane.

    And it's a good thing that people have their example, because passengers resisting the terrorists for fear of their lives is what has stopped every attempted terrorist after them. Sure, their bombs probably wouldn't work, but lucky for us, the passengers made sure they didn't have much time to work on them. That alone is far more helpful than all the crazy scanners and useless rules we've added since then.

    1. Re:You have that story all wrong... by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Only two changes post 9/11 have significantly increased airplane security. One is that passengers are now aware that they should resist hijackers (or other possible terrorists, like somebody licking their shoelaces on fire), and the reinforced cockpit doors. We change pretty much every else back to pre-9/11 standards and we save a ton of money, and reduce aggravation by a very significant amount, with virtually no decrease in actual security.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    2. Re:You have that story all wrong... by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      And it's a good thing that people have their example, because passengers resisting the terrorists for fear of their lives is what has stopped every attempted terrorist after them. Sure, their bombs probably wouldn't work, but lucky for us, the passengers made sure they didn't have much time to work on them. That alone is far more helpful than all the crazy scanners and useless rules we've added since then.

      Exactly! Apart from basic baggage scanning to make sure there are no bombs, we really just need to make sure every passenger who is able brings a baseball bat (or equivalent) on board.

      9/11 could potentially have ended like this:
      Atta: [brandishing box cutter] We're taking over this plane!
      Passenger: [thwack! thwack!] No, you're not.

  19. "Multi-breasted female figure" by Macblaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is a more important mystery here than whether Newton actually saw an apple fall. Please see this illustration in Stukeley's memoir.

    The caption explains what I am seeing: "Newton’s face is shown in profile, in the style of a medallion and supported by a multi-breasted female figure."

    The caption does not explain why I am seeing it.

    1. Re:"Multi-breasted female figure" by electrons_are_brave · · Score: 1

      Gawd, he was an ugly bugger.

    2. Re:"Multi-breasted female figure" by theGreater · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursa_Major#Mythology

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis#Artemis_as_the_Lady_of_Ephesus

      Short version -- Artemis as the Lady of Ephesus was depicted with "accessory breasts", and is related to the constellation Ursa via legend. AFAICT it's just decoration.

      FWIW,
      -theGreater.

  20. What are you talking about? by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    It wasn't received well at all. It fell flat on the ground!

    1. Re:What are you talking about? by snarkh · · Score: 1

      Which one?

  21. Finally someone who can address the myth! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Funny

    "A lot of times, the truth isn't relevant."

    I've suspected you were Melinda Gates for some time now, but this is the first time I have been unable to uncover any direct evidience. Is it true that a computer fell on Bill's head and inspired him to discover the GUI and pay someone to write Windows?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    1. Re:Finally someone who can address the myth! by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Is it true that a computer fell on Bill's head and inspired him to discover the GUI and pay someone to write Windows?

      That makes more sense than all the other theories about how he came up with the idea.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  22. Another example: "God" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No proof he/she/it exists, but sometimes this construct can be used to do good.

    The keyword here: SOMETIMES.

  23. Gravity by MacWiz · · Score: 1

    Gravity is just the scientific way of saying the planet sucks. Newton was trying to avoid the plague at the time, which is why he was in his country home, if I'm not mistaken. /The first sentence was sarcasm //The second is just a random fact ///No, I did not look it up.

    1. Re:Gravity by AniVisual · · Score: 1

      Nope, gravity is the scientific way of saying that everything sucks. cf. vacuum, the scientific way of saying that even when you don't have anything at all, it still sucks.