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FTL Currents May Power Pulsar Beams

thomst passes along news out of the recent AAAS meeting of a new explanation for pulsar beams that involves faster-than-light currents. Here are Los Alamos's press release and three related papers on the arXiv. "The new model explains the beam emissions from pulsars as products of superluminal currents within the spinning neutron stars' atmospheres. According to the authors' model, the current generated is, itself, faster than light, although the particles that compose it never individually exceed the universal speed limit, thereby preventing Einsteinian post-mortem rotation. The new model is a general explanation of the phenomenon of pulsar beam emissions that explains emissions at all observed frequencies (and different pulsars emit everything from radio waves to x-rays), which no previous model has done."

26 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. FTL Information? by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can we replicate this and add information to the current to transport information faster than the speed of light? (The real problem.)

    1. Re:FTL Information? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Clearly you have already perfected this FTL information transmission and used it to get a firstpost with a topic uncanningly similar to mine. ;)

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    2. Re:FTL Information? by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, both posts were submitted at the same time, resulting in a quantum entanglement. They were both "first post" until measured. Yours was the anti-correlated part of the singlet.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    3. Re:FTL Information? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can we replicate this and add information to the current to transport information faster than the speed of light? (The real problem.)

      Well I'm going to say no simply based on the fact that they are claiming no physical laws are being broken and that Special Relativity is not violated, since super-luminal information transfer = time travel = causality violation = impossible in SR. This not the first time this effect has been proposed and it has apparently been studied in labs, so if it was a possible way to transmit information, it seems they would have probably figured that out by now and at least some aspect of SR (perhaps causality!) would have to be scrapped.

      I don't fully understand what they're talking about, but it sounds like a similar phenomenon to group velocity, in which some aspect of the wavefront can be said to be traveling faster than light, but nevertheless real photons and information cannot.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:FTL Information? by derGoldstein · · Score: 4, Funny

      no physical laws are being broken and that Special Relativity is not violated

      You know there's a problem with the world when someone has to *explicitly clarify* that Special Relativity isn't being violated.
      I can see the signs that will replace "no smoking" 20 years from now: "This is a physics-abiding zone, please do not exceed light speed. Thank you."

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    5. Re:FTL Information? by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Informative

      > it's kinda amazing in a historical sense that 'normal' people are even aware of physics at that level in even the most vague of ways

      Have you spoken to any 'normal' people lately?

      Normal people think 'Ghost Hunters' is a documentary.
      Normal people believe computers can think, and wouldn't like robots in their town because of the danger of them revolting against humans.
      If I ask my parents what Einstein did, they say he invented the atom bomb.

      My next door neighbor asked me to not let my kids use computers between 7pm and 8pm because she doesn't want them to be able to watch her in the bath (wtf?).

      Don't mistake common knowledge on Slashdot for knowledge that is common.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    6. Re:FTL Information? by tekproxy2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's comments like this that keep me reading /.

    7. Re:FTL Information? by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yours was the anti-correlated part of the singlet.

      Somehow this sounds so much better than "-1 Redundant".

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    8. Re:FTL Information? by camperdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quantum entanglement is like a coin. Once you know one side is Heads, the other side is "instantaneously" Tails.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    9. Re:FTL Information? by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

      > Did you check your computer room for an unobstructed view of her bathroom? Perhaps she should install better curtains.

      I can't tell from here, my telescope is blocking the view.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    10. Re:FTL Information? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, it *is* the same stuff as always, it's only the distance that changed. It was theorized that the particles could *not* remain entangled for nearly that distance -- that makes all the difference.

      It makes a huge difference as far as practical quantum communication channels -- which are "merely" secure channels where any attempt to eavesdrop on the sub-light information stream can be detected -- but zero difference as far as the theory of whether or not it can be used for FTL info transfer, which still remains a big "no".

      The particles, once they reach their destination, will be under constant observation. When I want to send a signal, I make the particles on my end "react" in a pulse-width-modulation fashion, like Morse code. Their corresponding particle pairs on the other end will "untangle" at the same rate, but instantaneously.

      The reason this doesn't work is that for the person on the other end to detect that the particle in their possession has become untangled, they have to interact with it which would destroy any entanglement were there to have been any. In other words, there is no way for them to tell the difference between the waveform collapsing because you made it collapse versus them making it collapse by checking to see if you made it collapse.

      The only thing they know is that there is a correlation between whatever state they observe in the post-collapse particle and your particle... but they knew about that correlation when you gave them their particle to carry away with them at sub-light speed in the first place. All actual information was carried with the particles themselves at sub-light speeds.

      Those links from the google search can provide more explanations, too. Suffice to say that all known methods of using quantum entanglement -- whether for communication, or "teleportation" -- involve things moving at sub-light speeds.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    11. Re:FTL Information? by derGoldstein · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe in *your* country...

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    12. Re:FTL Information? by ChromaticDragon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are you kidding? Many people did love and would love the idea of hidden variables! It'd be like telling the children there most certainly are presents in the closet, but presents they can know nothing about and must not peak. The kids would be angling for their first chance to get in there.

      Hidden variables would mean a deeper understanding of which we are ignorant - fun stuff to keep chasing down.

      No, it's not that Quantum Physicists just don't like Hidden Variables.

      It's that a pretty clever chap figured out a way to test whether Quantum Physics involved Hidden Variables (without really needing to know much about them). Once he (and a few others) refined these ideas and actually did some tests, the results were clear. And as our instrumentation gets better over time, similar testing has more and more profoundly demonstrated Quantum Physics simply does not depend on Hidden Variables - it's just that weird.

      Look up Bell's Theorem.

  2. Short answer by jbeaupre · · Score: 5, Funny

    No.

    For a detailed explanation, see the next guy's post.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  3. You know what else creates FTL currents? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A disco ball. Shine a light on a disco ball, and project those cool reflections onto a surface more than a few light-seconds away. You'll see that the spots move much faster than light.

    Still no FTL movement or information transfer. Still no violation of GR or causality. Just another nice, attention-grabbing headline.

    1. Re:You know what else creates FTL currents? by IorDMUX · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The spots won't be moving faster than light, they will actually be a blur or line spread across the surfaces they hit.

      You're confusing perception with reality, and they are two very different things.

      I think the GP was right, any you may have it backwards. The human eye will perceive a blur or line, due to the limited "frame refresh" and averaging of our optical system. In reality, though, the "spot", as defined by the location where the photons are hitting/reflecting from the surface, will be traveling faster than light. No information can be conveyed, however, as no point on this surface can directly use this phenomenon to actually communicate anything faster than light.

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
  4. Re:FTL information by Kagura · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you wave a laser pointer around at the moon, you can make a dot on the moon that moves faster than light. That doesn't mean your laser photons are moving faster than light.

  5. Re:Google by goldaryn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Has Google filed its patent yet on "Method and Materials to Power a Pulsar Beam Using a Faster-Than-Light Current"?

    Not in China..

  6. Not the big deal people make out of it ... by dougmc · · Score: 5, Informative

    [ I'm referring to the concept of seeing something that moves faster than the speed of light, not anything else here, just so it's clear ]

    Consider this situation --

    You've got a big sphere. Let's say it's 93 million miles in radius (the size of our radius around the sun -- it's a figure we're all familiar with anyways.)

    In the middle of this sphere is a man. He has a laser, and he's shining it on the sphere. Since the man is still, the laser is not moving.

    But, then the man starts spinning, once per second. The laser takes about 8 minutes to reach the edge of the sphere, but once it does, the dot starts going around the outside of the sphere, once per second. If you do the math, that means the dot is moving 584,000,000 miles per second -- which is about 3100 times the speed of light.

    The light from the laser is still going at the speed of light, but the dot appears to be moving at over 3000 times the speed of light. But it's just a location -- the spot that the laser is hitting right now -- it doesn't mean that something tangible is exceeding the speed of light, and therefore Einstein isn't proved wrong by it.

    My point is, it doesn't require some really strange neutron star situation to picture a situation where something might appear to be traveling faster than the speed of light.

  7. Re:FTL information by jbeaupre · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sort of.

    Try this for an analogy: imagine a circular wall around us located one light-year radius away. Point your laser pointer at the wall, then sweep it so that it points to another spot 1 light year away on the same wall. Do that in 1 second.

    1 year later, a dot of light will appear on the wall. The dot will then exceed the speed of light, traveling 1 light-year in 1 second. If that dot also induced an electric charge, it will look like some sort of current pulse just traveled along the wall millions of times the speed of light.

    So, you've created a current, faster than the speed of light, that appears to carry information FTL, but not in a meaningful way.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  8. Here we go again by tylersoze · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ah yes it's time again to break out the old phase vs group velocity explanation again. There are plenty of things that can go "fast than light", but repeat after me, you cannot transmit *information* faster than light. There are many concepts in our current understanding of physics that you just take to be inviolate like conservation of energy, momentum, speed of light. That's not to say we those concepts might eventually be superseded but as a general rule of them any theory that doesn't follow them is probably pseudoscience and wrong. Physics develops from what proceeded it, from Newton to Einstein to Quantum Mechanics to String Theory, and those conservation laws always held. Perhaps reformulated in a different manner to stand for different things but they still held. You don't need to know the details of how a proposed "perpetual motion machine" may work to know that if the crackpot building it says that it violates the law of conservation of energy then it doesn't work.

  9. Re:FTL information by poopdeville · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's light... it's a big wave, with its source at your laser.

    The real solution to this "problem" is that you can't transmit information from point A to point B faster than light, despite the fact that the beam can change focus between A and B, faster than light. You can use the triangle inequality to show this.

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
  10. Re:FTL information by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maths. You are doing them wrong. The point of light will not travel 1 light year in one second. It will travel Pi light years in one second as it traces out a half circle with a radius of one light year. If you meant to indicate the linear difference, that is also wrong, it would have been 2 light years.

    Reading: You're doing it wrong.

    They did not say he was rotating the light source by pi radians. They said they were rotating the source so that it struck a point 1 light year from the original. The arc-length -- or linear distance, either way -- was in the statement of the problem. If you want to do maths, then you can work your way backwards to the total angular displacement and angular velocity. Your answer will be different depending on whether they meant a circular wall or a flat wall, but either way the statement of 1 year of displacement is not wrong and cannot be wrong.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  11. Re:FTL information by vlm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Oh for heaven's sake, somebody post a car analogy!

    Take yer hotrod up to about 25 MPH at night and spin some donuts. From far enough away, the headlights reflecting off the walmart wall will move way faster than 25 MPH, maybe 1000 MPH who knows.

    Now does the cop give you a ticket for speeding because your headlight reflections are moving 1000 MPH? No, nothing was speeding. The reflection is just a mathematical construct that means nothing. The cop gives you a ticket for being a dumbass and disturbing the peace, not for speeding.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  12. Re:Replies to the thread vs. Time by natehoy · · Score: 4, Funny

    As General Relativity tells us, information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, and the closer you get to the speed of light the more energy you need. I'm a civilian, so I don't usually have to obey generals, but this Relativity dude seems to speak with some authority, so I'll listen to him.

    Anyway, it's also pretty inherently obvious that theoretically infinite amounts of information can be kept perfectly still with no energy expended. You just need a stable medium.

    It stands to reason, therefore, that there is an inverse relationship between the speed of an object and the amount of information that may be carried on that object with a given energy input.

    As a thread accelerates, the amount of useful information that can be put on it decreases. Eventually, it reaches a velocity called the "speed of blight" where the number of informationless posts like this one exceeds those with useful information.

    Also, as objects move, they are affected by exterior forces, such as chaotic movement, gravity wells, etc, and that effect is proportional to the amount of force applied, and inversely proportional to the speed of the object being affected. This is why a troll (known to hang out at gravity wells, and may in fact cause them) can have a more diversionary effect on a thread when it has yet to gain velocity - the troll's black hole has more mass relative to the velocity of the thread. As the thread reaches speed, the troll can (at best) tear a small chunk off the thread and scatter it, because the thread is moving too quickly but also lacks the information necessary to maintain its integrity any more.

    --
    "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  13. Re:FTL information by vlm · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now make an analogy using a cow, 5 bags of salt, and the Pacific Ocean. :)

    So, near Hawaii, we have a cow and 5 bags of salt. Force feed the salt to the cow, which promptly dies (sorry PETA). The rotting cow corpse expands and finally detonates (sorry cDc), at, for example, the speed of light. Flaps of leather strike SFO, nothing unusual, but it is odd that they strike LA at about the same time. Scientist watching from a satellite says its as if leather was smeared in a line thru SFO and LA however the line must have moved at about a zillion times the speed of light, like the Enterprise had an accident while transporting some steers at full warp speed. No, scientist has it wrong, because the direction of motion is actually perpendicular to the line between SFO and LA, the motion was actually from Hawaii at merely light speed.

    The difference in time of impact and distance between SFO and LA are just a math abstraction which by no means implies the leather moved along that path at a zillion times the speed of light.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger