Slashdot Mirror


Researchers Make a Case For Learning Through Video Game Creation

ub3r n3u7r4l1st sends along this snippet from Science Daily: "Computer games have a broad appeal that transcends gender, culture, age and socio-economic status. Now, computer scientists in the US think that creating computer games, rather than just playing them, could boost students' critical and creative thinking skills as well as broaden their participation in computing. ... 'Worldwide, there is increasing recognition of a digital divide, a troubling gap between groups that use information and communication technologies widely and those that do not,' the team explains. 'The digital divide refers not only to unequal access to computing resources between groups of people but also to inequalities in their ability to use information technology fully.' There are many causes and proposed solutions to bridging this divide, but applying them at the educational and computer literacy level in an entertaining and productive way might be one of the more successful. The team adds that teaching people how to use off-the-shelf tools to quickly build a computer game might allow anyone to learn new thinking and computing skills."

18 of 68 comments (clear)

  1. Gamers grown up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sounds like the first batch of kids who grew up playing lots of Nintendo 30 years ago became researchers, and realized they're not as screwed up as everyone thought they would be.

    1. Re:Gamers grown up by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They mention using "off-the-shelf" tools...that's a tricky one. It's a fine balance between making the process challenging vs. instructive. If you use off-the-shelf engines to slap in your own graphics and levels, it's debatable how educational the experience will be. On the other hand, if you get mired in developing an engine or coding AI logic, etc., then it's debatable how much "video games" have to do with it, versus plain ol' CS education.

      --
      An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
    2. Re:Gamers grown up by b4k3d+b34nz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I suppose you're correct if you look at it as teaching kids how to program video games, but it looks like they're trying to get them to learn critical and creative thinking in a broad range, rather than xor'ing pixels all day.

      If you compare it to art class, where students liberally steal ideas and style from Van Gogh and Matisse (and Bob Ross) yet still learn the basics of how to paint, I think that in the same way students will be able to pick up some basics of the thought processes involved in designing something from scratch, in a variety of disciplines. Even with off-the-shelf software, they will still have to think on the surface of how to render out an environment, build characters or puzzles, and create some sort of user interface and menu system. It'll likely be slapped together and a horrible program, but it could definitely build computer skills for those with a penchant for problem-solving and creative thinking.

      I think it's a good idea overall, but the implementation will probably completely fail in the US due to lack of capable teachers.

      --
      Grammar Lesson: you're is a contraction of "you are"; your means you possess something; yore means days gone by.
    3. Re:Gamers grown up by MikeFM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can see some benefit to using off-the-shelf components to make it easier but I hope they concentrate on programming and not just dropping components together and setting some options. Python w/ Pygame I think would be a great start. Back in the day we learned LOGO and BASIC but now it seems most of the kids don't get this kind of exposure to computer programming. I'm sure I'm biased but I think programming skills should be added to the three R's as it's incredibly useful to develop the needed thinking skills and pretty useful to have some idea how to write custom programs later in life. Almost everyone I know asks for little custom apps they have thought of but don't know how to make for themselves. I think a simple app constructor is the killer app waiting for Android/iPhone. When people can quickly and easily make and share their own apps it will bring a whole new aspect to these universal devices. It's a matter of making it possible to graphically work with common programming features (like Scratch programming) and powerful pre-built components.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    4. Re:Gamers grown up by sourcerror · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, you can use some open-source engines, like Apocalyx or Panda3d, where you can do everything with a scripting language (Lua or Python) and no C/C++ skills are required. Of course this only takes care for rendering and physics, you have to do the AI yourself. (But that's the most intresting part anyway.)

    5. Re:Gamers grown up by sourcerror · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, we have visual programming languages, but they aren't really easiser for the users to use them. (Not easiser than a regular scripting language)

      I tried one which generated J2EE apps, but actually, but it just slowed me down, and making the diagrams look neat took much more effort than to make the code neat. (You know, a lot of wires crossing each other etc.) Actually, writing an autoindent module for textual code is much easier than for a graph based language.
      Actually what makes diagrams in general (e.g. in documentation) useful is that they only show only the aspect of the code that you're trying to explain. Deciding what is important what's unimportant in a given situation needs human level intelligence.

  2. Computer Science != Computer Skills by bronney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I super hates stories like this that generalize "computer skills" with computer science. Most of the programmers I know aren't gamers, and most gamers aren't programmers. Most of the programmers have great skills solving a computer science problem, but might run into problems with diagnosing a hardware/software conflict to make their legacy Soundblaster Audigy work with Battlefield 2 (as an example).

    For a car analogy *ahem* this is just like, a godlike car mechanic might not be a "good" driver, whatever good means, and a good driver might not be able to fix cars. Both driving and fixing are skills. Teaching kids to make games doesn't magically make him/her a better computer user. It doesn't teach them to Win-L when they walk away from the terminal.

    1. Re:Computer Science != Computer Skills by Antiocheian · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't think that a car analogy can work here, but a pizza analogy might. You mean that if I like pizzas doesn't necessarily mean I can make good ones ? Or not ?

      A good Pizza Analogy anyone ?

    2. Re:Computer Science != Computer Skills by StripedCow · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most of the programmers have great skills solving a computer science problem

      Not really accurate. Computer scientists invent and analyze algorithms, whereas programmers just implement them.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    3. Re:Computer Science != Computer Skills by bronney · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ok sure, it's like when a car runs out of gasoline, you have to fill it up. But sometimes you do it with 87 octane and you know it's not enough.

      So you go to the supermarkets, and get a can of green peas and also a copy of electronic gaming monthly. You head back to the car and all of a sudden, the 87 octane didn't seem so bad cuz if you filled it with 93, you would've have the peas.

      Get it?

    4. Re:Computer Science != Computer Skills by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In any job I've worked at, as well as anything I do in my spare time, my "programming" also involved developing the algorithm to do a certain task.

      I can see that some simple programming jobs might not need you to develop algorithms. But for those companies that need that - are there really companies where they hire separate computer scientists and programmers, where the former explains the algorithm than the programmer simply does the laborious work of translating algorithms to code?

      If you want to talk about maths professors, it's like suggesting we have one guy who works out the maths, and another one who translates that into the mathematical notation...

  3. modding support by GarretSidzaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a way already here: it is called game modding. Modding is almost as good as creating a new game, and doesn't cost the millions for dev or engine licensing.

    Downside is you don't get paid.

    1. Re:modding support by daid303 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed. Modding is great. I learned loads from UT modding. It makes understanding OOP much easier as when you start you can relate 'objects' to ingame stuff that you can see, while later you find out that there are many 'objects' that you cannot see at all. It gives a base for AI, it teaches programming of course, it learns you about debugging and performance.

      You don't have to create the next countersstrike or whatever, just make something fun. And it will teach you a lot more then sitting in a classroom.

  4. It helped my math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I dunno about creativity, but dabbling in game programming made me understand and appreciate math better. I've always hated math for it's own sake and avoided learning at all costs, but when I started messing around in pygame I had trig make sense for the first time thanks to the vectors of a moving sprite and I taught myself linear equations all over again too.

  5. Alice? by blankinthefill · · Score: 2, Informative

    This sounds a lot like an extension of Alice (http://www.alice.org/). The idea is that you learn to program by writing stories/scripts (in the movie sense, not the IT sense) with the various objects of the language. It sounds like they would like to extend beyond that, but in terms of rudimentary learning, Alice is great, and its a much softer introduction to thinking algorithmically/learning to program than something like C or C++ or Java right off the bat.

  6. Re:Xcept for the fact that... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not funny, but it does raise a point; the ideal environment for this might well be some sort of graphical MUD. I would personally begin with Sauerbraten, and add a nice LUA interface or something, at least as a proof-of-concept. I'm envisioning something like Second Life, but with content creation tools that don't hurt your brain. Why is it that Open Source software nearly always has a shit interface? Even FreeCiv, which gives you tons more control over units and cities than the games on which it is based, makes sophomoric errors resulting in clutter and a minimum window size that won't even permit it to be played on small displays on which Civ, Civ2, and Civ3 at least all work fine on and in fact even remain playable! At least The GIMP has a decent interface... if you compare it to photoshop, the level of confusion and complexity is comparable, people are just used to photoshop. Too bad about that name.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Good Luck by mayko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good luck. I think this is a good idea... but then again I would call myself a critical thinker.

    What they haven't taken into account is that most kids who play computer/console games are not critical thinkers in the sense they want them to be. I know plenty of people who, when we were young, thought the idea of making a game would be a dream job... then after a 10 week C++ class in high school they realized. "Hey, this is shit really hard.... and boring."

    The fact is that most people play games because they are an easy escape from life, or a good way to socially interact. Your typical madden, or call of duty player doesn't give a shit about critical thinking, or programming.

  8. Why not just design tabletop games? by elecmahm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The critical thinking and intimate understanding isn't exclusive to VIDEO game development -- it's a fundamental aspect of game design. One must understand the inner workings of whatever it is you're trying to model, at an abstract level, in order to make a game out of it.

    Tabletop gaming also doesn't require a computer (although they can facilitate it), so schools with less computer access can still participate. The best part, too, is that there is likely to be one or two games each year that are actually fun to play; Those games can be used by future classes for teaching. In a classroom environment, where kids are forced away from video games anyways, allowing tabletop games in should be a welcome alternative to enduring lectures.

    There's a whole movement called "Serious Games" -- MSU even has a graduate degree in it. Check it out.