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Darwinian Evolution Considered As a Phase

LucidBeast tips a mind-bending report at New Scientist on the latest paradigm-breaking work of Carl Woese, one of whose earlier discoveries was the third branch of life on Earth, the Archaea. Woese and physicist Nigel Goldenfeld argue that, even in its sophisticated modern form, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection applies only to a recent phase of life on Earth. Woese and Goldenfeld believe that horizontal evolution led to the rise of the genetic code itself. "At the root of this idea is overwhelming recent evidence for horizontal gene transfer — in which organisms acquire genetic material 'horizontally' from other organisms around them, rather than vertically from their parents or ancestors. The donor organisms may not even be the same species. This mechanism is already known to play a huge role in the evolution of microbial genomes, but its consequences have hardly been explored. According to Woese and Goldenfeld, they are profound, and horizontal gene transfer alters the evolutionary process itself."

24 of 313 comments (clear)

  1. Proven example: by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The first 2 parts of Spore are like Horizontal Evolution, and the later parts are all vertical.

    It makes perfect sense. Clearly Will Wright is a genius.

  2. Once again by copponex · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know, scientists just keep reforming their ideas until it conforms to observable reality. How can they expect anyone to believe what they say when they're just going to keep changing their minds?

    I prefer my religion. It allows me to conform reality to my ideas.

    1. Re:Once again by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The basic problem is that you don't have infinite time, and as such you have to 'outsource' your knowledge gathering to other people. The problem then becomes one of who do you trust? If you use a heuristic of who has got good results in the past and that leads you to 'blindly' believe in the brand of science - well I can't really find any fault with that. As a researcher, while I know lots about my area, I don't know jack about others so I blindly trust what my doctor, mathematician, physicist tell me. If its an issue of importance I get a second opinion from another doctor etc, but at the end of the day I am blindly trusting them. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

      --
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  3. I dunno... by Dupple · · Score: 5, Funny

    I pass on my genes horizontally

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  4. It's still natural selection by BenBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This really isn't entirely new; Dawkins' book The Selfish Gene is based around the idea that it's individual genes that are selected for, not organisms.

  5. If you want to do the cross-species thing . . . by StefanJ · · Score: 4, Funny

    . . . you're better off doing it vertically.

    Wearing running shoes.

    And ideally permission of the farmer.

    (beat)

    What?

  6. Original paper on arXiv by PaulBu · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those who do not care to register for that New Scientist, we still have arXiv... :)

    http://arxiv.org/abs/q-bio/0702015

    Paul B.

    1. Re:Original paper on arXiv by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thanks, as the New Sensationalist article is full of lies and hyperbole, completely idiotic, transparent falsehoods like, "This code is universal, shared by all organisms, and biologists have long known that it has remarkable properties"

      This simply a lie, as is the claim that 64 combinations producing 20 codons is "redundancy". The reason there are only 20 is well-known to anyone with the least little bit of familiarity with the subject: it is the maximum number of unambiguous combinations, so that if you get six bases in a row there is exactly one way to read them, because no two codons together can result in a third codon being read between them.

      The arXiv article may have something interesting to say, although inter-species genetic transfer has been known to occur amongst micro-organisms for a long time. From a Darwinian perspective the genes available in the environment are just that: another perfectly ordinary part of the environment. Since Darwin's Law depends only on the laws of probability and the fact of imperfect replication, it applies to situations where horizontal transfer takes place just as much as when imperfect copies of genes come from ancestors.

      The details of Darwinian evolution will change a little in the context where organisms are taking genetic resources directly from the environment, but it's still a Darwinian process.

      The weird statements about "questioning if organisms even exist as individuals" are just idiotic marketing hype that pretty much ensure the whole argument is vastly less interesting and important than the authors want to make it appear. Otherwise, why the need for such anti-scientific hype? Unless it is the New Sensationalist characteristically ripping an innocent statement out of context.

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    2. Re:Original paper on arXiv by rgmoore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This simply a lie, as is the claim that 64 combinations producing 20 codons is "redundancy". The reason there are only 20 is well-known to anyone with the least little bit of familiarity with the subject: it is the maximum number of unambiguous combinations, so that if you get six bases in a row there is exactly one way to read them, because no two codons together can result in a third codon being read between them.

      Except that isn't true. Every one of the 64 possible 3 base sequences is a valid code for either an amino acid or a stop codon. Some viruses take advantage of this by overlapping protein coding regions, with different proteins being coded by reading in different frames. In eukaryotes, there are some genes that can code for proteins with very different sequence regions because an exon skipping splice variant results in a frame shift that codes for a completely different sequence.

      A more significant complaint about the "This code is universal, shared by all organisms" quote is that it isn't universal. There are small differences in the genetic code between genomes. NCBI lists no fewer than 23 different versions, but given that a tiny fraction of all species have been studied there are undoubtedly many more minor variants. An especially interesting case- and the place that difference in genetic codes were first discovered- is that human nuclear and mitochondrial sequences use slightly different genetic codes. The mitochondria even have their own distinct ribosomes.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

  7. Re:Capitalism? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

    However, I've always read Darwinian evolution as "survival of the fittest", with no qualifier as to how you go about surviving.

    "Survival of the fittest" aka Natural Selection was half of Darwinian evolution. This was the half about how traits were selected for in the environment.

    The other half was how an organism's traits came about, and his theory was that traits were passed from parents to offspring in the reproductive cells via some biological mechanism that allowed for combination and mutation. Eventually we discovered DNA, the very biological mechanism in question that had traits like Darwin predicted (though Mendel was the one who really nailed down the probably behavior of this then-unknown mechanism).

    "Horizontal" evolution doesn't fall into that category, though. So it's not "Darwinian". Even though natural selection (obviously) still applies to what gene transfers result in successful organisms.

    As the summary mentions, this is well known in micro-organisms. In fact as far as I can tell they aren't arguing that it applies to anything but microorganisms. The argument seems more like that because these are the most common life forms on earth and also the oldest, Darwinian evolution is not the most common or dominant form of evolution.

    Which is a good point. Though really, as far as what affects us and other sexually reproducing creatures, Darwinian evolution is still 'it' more or less. The real importance of this breakthrough is in studying how the evolutionary mechanisms themselves evolved -- evolution is of course not immune to evolution. ;) This is going to be a powerful way of thinking about how early aspects of DNA came to be.

    But just to be clear -- if someone says that this proves Darwin was wrong, evolution is a sham, and therefore their beliefs are probably right, go ahead and slap them. :) All this means is that evolution is even more complicated and powerful than previously thought.

    --

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  8. Here's A Tip, Folks by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a tip, folks. The minute you see some science journalist use the word "paradigm", as in "paradigm shift" or "paradigm breaking" you can be quite certain that what follows will be neither.

    Horizontal gene transfer has been known about for decades, and the notion that the root of the tree of life is more a tangle of interconnecting branches has pretty much been accepted for some time now. We know that particularly with prokaryotes, horizontal transfer happens, and that while more difficult with eukaryotes, can still happen (ie. endo-retroviral insertions). It is yet another facet of evolution, not some independent force.

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    1. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by Dalambertian · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Here's a protip I've learned from watching the internets and reading your first comment: The moment anyone brings to light something most people have been ignoring, there's always someone who comes along claiming that there's nothing new to see here and that anyone who doesn't know that is clearly misinformed. I'm sorry, but I've never heard of this theory before, and I daresay I'm not the only one. So, please, stop trying to take away my sense of wonder.

      Sincerely, the misinformed

    2. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by icebike · · Score: 5, Informative

      Horizontal gene transfer has been known about for decades, and the notion that the root of the tree of life is more a tangle of interconnecting branches has pretty much been accepted for some time now.

      Further it has nothing at all to do with Darwinism.

      A mechanism of gene transfer plays no role in the "Survival of the Fittest" (a phrase coined not by Darwin, but rather by Spencer), or natural selection. Its not germane.

      Natural Selection is a winnowing process, and a mutation amplifying force, but says nothing about the acquisition or dispersion of said mutations. It was never meant to.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not trying to take away anyone's "sense of wonder". I'm saying that horizontal gene transfer is one known way in which variation can occur. Remember, evolution requires only that there be variation in populations. For the most part, that variation will either be in allele frequency, but sometimes is also mutational, sometimes due to neutral drift, and probably with considerably less frequency due to horizontal transfer. It ain't new, and neither is trying to make a well known phenomena sound exciting and "paradigm shifting" by announcing it to the world.

      Man, but I hate science journalism.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by icebike · · Score: 5, Informative

      I fail to see the point of confusion.

      Acquisition of a trait (by whatever means) would never amount to a significant percentage of the gene pool of an organism unless it proffered some usefulness. Mutation or horizontal genetic transfer are but mere mechanisms. Darwinism discusses the overall process, not the details.

      How that transfer took place is mere details. When that transfer takes place is not fixed in time. Horizontal transfer still exists in larger and more complex organisms and their symbiotic partners.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by camperdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other words, the tree of life is a banyan tree.

      --
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    6. Re:Here's A Tip, Folks by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sorry, but I've never heard of this theory before, and I daresay I'm not the only one.

      OK, here you go, then: Prokaryotes (i.e. bacteria, archea and so forth), by virtue of the comparatively "exposed" genetic material (not condensed or "bunched up" like ours typically is) and because of the structure of their cellular membranes, are very capable of "scraping up" any loose genetic material that may be lying around (e.g. as a result of cellular lysis). If these nucleic acids confer an evolutionary advantage, they are propagated in successive generations. This is why, and how "superbugs" like MRSA are thought to have evolved.

      Microbiologists have used this feature for decades in the genetic engineering of bacteria to induce desired characteristics. The process is much harder and more complicated in eukaryotic (e.g. animal or plant) cells, but it can and does happen.

  9. Re:Well duh? by Guido+von+Guido · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't read the article without registering but I wonder if homosexual behavior could be causing horizontal gene transfer in humans, possibly using viruses as a transport mechanism.

    If viruses are your transport mechanism, I'm not sure you need homosexual behaviour. You may, yes, but there are plenty of other mechanisms for viruses to spread.

  10. Viruses by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Horizontal transfer isn't really over, either - we still have retroviruses.

  11. darwin didn't know the details? shocking! by panthroman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Have Woese and Goldenfeld a brilliant new idea? All they're saying, I think, is that "parent" and "child" are the appropriate units of selection only when genes are passed vertically: from parent to child. They're suggesting that horizontal gene transfer is underrated as a historical evolutionary force.

    Agree or not, it hardly undermines Darwin. Genes weren't known in the 19th century. Darwin didn't have a clue about genes, so we're gonna knock him for being "wrong" about it? I mean, was Jesus wrong about genes, too? It's anachronistic silliness.

    Science is fundamentally dynamic. Any science that hasn't progressed in 150 years ain't doing too well. (Dear creationists: stop calling us "Darwinists." We've moved on.) I mean, The Origin came out in 1859, for crying out loud! Darwin was more brilliant, more insightful, and rightly more famous than I'll ever be. But if we both had to take a biology test right now, I'd kill him.

  12. Re:Well duh? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can see that this might be plausible in the early stages of life on this planet where microbes would acquire genes from other microbes.

    I saw an article recently about a species of snail that has acquired the genes for making chlorophyll from the algae it eats. It hasn't yet acquired the genes to make chloroplasts, so it has to eat algae to get enough chloroplasts from the algae to allow photosynthesis to work, but after that it is capable of living with no food other than light.

    So, obviously this is still ongoing, and on larger scales than microbes.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  13. Re:Gene Synthesis by brit74 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's not like one protein that catalyzes one reaction can simply mutate into a different protein that catalyzes a different reaction. It's more of an all or nothing thing. It doesn't seem like you would ever see transitional "evolutionary" forms of proteins for that reason.

    There are instances of proteins evolving into something that does something different.

    "Biologists have shown that independent but similar molecular changes turned a harmless digestive enzyme into a toxin in two unrelated species -- a shrew and a lizard -- giving each a venomous bite."
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091029125532.htm

    Generally, what happens in these cases (where a protein evolved into a different protein with a different function) is that the original DNA sequence gets duplicated, and then one of the duplicates starts evolving (and the other copy continues to serve the same original function that it had earlier). One of the things that evolutionary biologists do is look at protein sequences and find similar sequences within the same organism. Very often, there's a tree-like structure showing multiple variations on a single protein within an organism. For example, humans have multiple copies/variations on the hemoglobin gene. They're either inactive or active at different phases in a person's life. Example:

    "Fetal hemoglobin, or foetal haemoglobin, (also hemoglobin F or HbF) is the main oxygen transport protein in the fetus during the last seven months of development in the uterus and in the newborn until roughly 6 months old. Functionally, fetal hemoglobin differs most from adult hemoglobin in that it is able to bind oxygen with greater affinity than the adult form, giving the developing fetus better access to oxygen from the mother's bloodstream."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin_F
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin#Types_in_humans

    There's also the case of the fish antifreeze that evolved from non-protein-coding DNA:
    "Scientists at the University of Illinois have discovered an antifreeze-protein gene in cod that has evolved from non-coding or 'junk' DNA."
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060404090831.htm

  14. Re:You raise an interesting point here by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Science is not the search for "truth". It's the search for an explanation. Unfortunately, it has become the new religion, people simply believe what some scientist says as gospel and, as you identified, are then frustrated and irritated if it is found to be incomplete or utterly false.

    That is not how science is to be treated. Science does not have all the answers. Science is the search for those answers, not the answer itself. Science is not about believing, it is about doubting. About offering a theory and offering ways to test that theory. Especially the latter part is often overlooked by people. A good theory offers an angle to falsify it. I may state that at the center of a black hole is cake. Just to make all the Portal players happy. And while we're at it, before the big bang there was a flat world carried by a turtle. You cannot falsify either theory. You cannot test them. So they have to be true. Right? False! Both are non-theories. They have zero scientific value. At least until we somehow find ways to test them.

    So presenting any theory that offers no vector of testing is, scientifically, worthless. Unfortunately, that's not easy to convey to people. They want explanations. And science cannot offer them. Science is not about certain answers. It is about questioning theories.

    --
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  15. Re:Well duh? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Creationism is ridiculed because creationism is ridiculous. Such posts get modded up because people with mod points agree, whether on topic or not. It's not really worth a sociology paper or anything.

    If you really want to defend creationism on /., I salute your bravery. If you are just trying to figure out why people do what they do, I wish you tremendous amounts of luck.