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Gun With Wireless Arming Signal Goes On Sale Soon

An anonymous reader writes "Armatix has built a pistol that will disarm itself when it is taken away from a watch that sends it a wireless arming signal. The .22 caliber guns will go on sale in the US within months, and the initial price is 7,000 euro. Higher caliber models will follow. To activate the gun, users must enter a pin code on the wristwatch, and then keep it within roughly 20cm of the gun. If the person is disarmed, the gun can't be used against them. Also coming soon this year, civilians will also be able to buy three-shot Tasers, rubber bullets, as well as Heckler and Koch black rifles." This might not be good news for the citizens of New Jersey.

37 of 457 comments (clear)

  1. Wait hold on mugger... by Shikaku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I gotta enter the pin so that I can use my gun to defend myself.

    1. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by ebonum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Better yet. Sell a small device that jams the signal! Disarm him without firing a shot. Then you can take your time to aim.

    2. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by terraformer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're an idiot if you believe this. This company is actively counting on and courting the hoplophobes in order to legislate their products into existence.

      --
      Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    3. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People in this thread seems WAY to obsessed about the scenario which almost never plays out "someone tries to take my gun" vs the scenario that is all too common "children playing with their parents guns".

    4. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Neoprofin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One is a minor problem in need of a solution, the other is negligence which cannot be defeated by any mechanical means.

    5. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe the target market here is peace officers; so their guns cannot be taken from them and used against them. Not you and me.

      It's a .22. Peace officers really don't have much use for a .22. This is aimed at the loons who think that the phrase "safe guns" means something (as opposed to "safe gunners").

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by e3m4n · · Score: 4, Insightful

      what if, instead, the gun isn't just listening but also the transmitter making the watch is a passive RFID tag? you could still steal the data much the same way passport rfid collection works, but the likelihood of knowing which tag to use within the short time you disarmed someone and tried to use their weapon against them is unlikely. I don't see much civillian or military use for this. When I need a weapon to fire it needs to be as simple and straight forward as possible. One of my home defense pistols is a .357 revolver simply because there is so little that can possibly go wrong with them.

      I do see this being marketed to police who have the highest risk of having their service weapon taken and used on them. I'm not so sure about the whole watch/pin-code concept though. Most people are right handed and wear their watches on their left hand. 20cm is not an overly large distance and while 2-handed shooting is more accurate, there could be cases where the officer has to shoot 1-handed. If they used a passive RFID, maybe fingerless gloves or, if possible, sub-dermal implant would make more sense. I bet these designers got their idea from the 1995 Judge Dredd movie where the gun was bound to the owners DNA

    7. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I gotta hand it to you; you guys nailed pretty much everything wrong with this idea in the first three posts. The only people who could love this idea are liberal gun grabbers who are afraid somebody might get hurt with a gun. The idea that it would be good for police is equally silly - the added layer of complexity can only further muddy the waters at times when speed and reliability are paramount. I already mourn for the police officer who will be killed when this system fails.

      Guns aren't supposed to be safe, they're supposed to be dangerous as hell and for a very good reason. The entire mindset that spawned this abortion ignores the most basic natural right to self defense. Said mindset also has an unconscionably low opinion of people's judgments in such situations. It's the same mindset that recommends "passive resistance" for rape victims, as if a woman lying dead in an alley, raped and strangles with her own pantyhose is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to a cop exactly why she had to shoot her attacker.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    8. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately you are probably dead on in your statement, but it won't be muggers you have to worry about disarming you, it will be government agencies.

      This type of legislation / device is a wet dream for those who do not understand the premise or need for the 2nd Amendment.

      Civil unrest? The serfs don't agree with you? No worries when they try to resist your commands and actually attempt to revolt, disable their means of meaningful resistance!

    9. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Neoprofin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you let your kids play with a locked gun?

      The problem is not that the gun can be fired, it's that if children are old enough to find and play with reasonably stored guns they're old enough to be educated that guns aren't toys.

    10. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by sskinnider · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All too common?? I think you have it fairly wrong. It is still not very common for a child to be killed by his own parents gun. Does that small number justify the expense of forcing every citizen to shell out 100X more for a weapon to defend themselves. Education is so much cheaper and way more effective.

    11. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no way in hell any law enforcement or military organization would ever go for this!

      While I can see why the gun banners want this, I can not see why anyone would want one for themselves. I get disabled and can not hand my gun to my wife to defend us? I have to sleep with my watch on, and gun within 20cm, or type in a pin in groggy half sleep? My "watch" battery goes dead?

    12. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only people who could love this idea are liberal gun grabbers who are afraid somebody might get hurt with a gun.

      And we all know how utterly stupid it is to expect something like this. I mean, when was the last time in the US someone got hurt with a gun?!

      You miss the point. Not that people get hurt with guns, which is the intent, but that some people are afraid that people will use guns as they are intended.

      Frankly, I trust my neighbors with guns more than I trust the politicians trying to "regulate" them.

    13. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I can see why the gun banners want this, I can not see why anyone would want one for themselves.

      And I think that sums up this invention quite nicely: It's something you want everyone else to have.

    14. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the contrary, I think it's is the wet dream for those that DO understand the Second Amendment, but don't want it.

    15. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We can assume the assailant has already gained access to your house

      Why should we assume that? A lot of people will wake up while hearing someone in the middle of trying to gain access to their house. There's a brief period of time between hearing some glass break, or a screen being cut, etc., and being able to arm yourself. That time has to be a lot longer if you have to fiddle with your magic wristwatch, and make sure that it never gets farther from your gun than eight inches from it. It would be a shame, wouldn't it, if you had to put the gun in your other hand while you grabbed your phone to dial 911, or reached for a lightswitch or flashlight or to restrain a dog, and had your gun disable itself. What an absurd thing.

      With a regular firearm, in your scenario you are already screwed.

      Sure, not counting all of the times that people in home invasions are not screwed, and are in fact saved because they reached for a gun. Not counting the number of people who simply turn and run when someone brandishes a gun, or who are held at gunpoint until the cops arrive. We slowed down a crazy guy trying to breack through our back door in the middle of the night, and did so by quickly displaying a gun. Still took the cops a long time to show up... and he would have been through that glass and into the house if not for even his drug-addled brain recognizing the deterrent being showed to him at 3:00AM. I'm very glad that no magic battery-powered wrist transmitter was required. I would never rely on such a device. It's crazy.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    16. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *cough* Britain *cough*

      They are busy legislating away all forms of self defense.I've seen several news reports of guys getting arrested because, oh noez! they fought back against their attacker. Many of them used a knife or other household item to save their own or a family members life, only to be incarcerated later. There was even one report of a military vet who found a shotgun in a park or something. He turn it in to the cops and was arrested for illegal possession. Now keep in mind that the police station he took it to had passed out flyers a short while before telling citizens it was their duty to bring any illegal weapons they find to the police.

    17. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Bartab · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gun enthusiasts who keep guns in the house teach their kids about guns. Conservatives or not.

      Note, IMO, darwinistic outliers that do meth, pop out the occasional sickly underweight baby, and keep a few AK47s are not proof of violations of the rule. Some people are simply so screwed up that they don't follow any standards of practice.

      Maybe it should be "Gun enthusiasts who keep guns in the house and care about their kids, teach their kids about guns."

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
    18. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by Haeleth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet, for some reason, living in Britain I feel perfectly safe at home alone without a gun. I feel perfectly safe walking down dark streets alone without any kind of weapon at all. Even the police don't bother to carry lethal weapons unless they are actually responding to a specific incident which requires it.

      Turns out that when guns are outlawed, outlaws don't need them either.

    19. Re:Wait hold on mugger... by jecblackpepper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In Britain you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself and your family and property from attack; and the important part is that it must only be reasonable to you at the time of using that force. If in the cold light of day it might seem unreasonable, if you thought it was reasonable (and can get a jury to agree with you that you thought it was reasonable) then you should not be found guilty.

      The problem comes when someone uses clearly unreasonable force, then they cannot claim self-defence. In the case that has recently been in the news, the householder, once he'd driven off the attackers went on to chase them down the street and when he caught them he smashed a cricket bat over his head inflicting permanent injury on him. Pursuing an attacker once the threat to yourself and family is clearly over is no longer self-defence.

      From what I heard of the case, I would agree that he went beyond the use of reasonable force to defend himself and his family and so should not have been able to use the self-defence defence. However, I do agree with the appeal judge also that this was an exceptional situation and given the extreme provocation of the attackers, he should not be significantly punished for going beyond self-defence.

      The main debate in Britain at the moment is whether the law should be changed so that people won't be guilty if they go beyond "reasonable" force; only if they use "grossly disproportionate" force. If this proposal from the Tory's gets into law then it will be legal to use unreasonble force to defend yourself, and legal to use disproportionate force to defend yourself. Personally I like the term the reasonable force - there haven't been any cases that I heard of in Britain where someone used anything like reasonable force in their defence where they've been convicted, so to me it feels like the law is working as it stands (but then I'm not a Daily Mail reader who thinks it should be justifiable to kill someone who has trespassed on your property).

  2. You want a perfectly "safe" weapon? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You want a perfectly "safe" weapon?
    Just don't buy one.

    There! Can I have 7000?

    1. Re:You want a perfectly "safe" weapon? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not a matter of not having a weapon; it's a matter of not having a significantly better, or at least equal, weapon than the criminals.

      A weapon can be anything: your arms, a knife, a baseball bat. Chances are that violent thugs are going to come up-armed: they're going to have one or more of those things and/or a gun, and they're going to come in numbers greater than your own.

      By having a gun, you greatly increase your own odds. You keep the enemy at greater-than-arm's-length, and you are reduced from being at their whims to being in control in your own home.

      Every now and then you see about an armed robbery going horrifyingly right, with the criminals in question staining the homeowner's carpet. Not so often do you hear about a homeowner shot by criminals with their own gun - at least not that I have seen.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  3. Product in Search of a problem, creating more by Neoprofin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Great.

    If I go target shooting I have to play "Pass the Wristwatch" to enjoy it as a communal activity and pay 10x as much for the privileged. If want to use it for self defense I have to wear the watch at all times and go through an extra layer of complications. Better yet in that situation if the gun is taken from me as we wrestle on the ground it's entirely likely that the gun will never move far enough to deactivate before I'm shot repeatedly in the chest and the watch and gun are taken.

    Sounds like a lot of money to acquire a possibility of safety as well as making previously safe activities more complicated.

    1. Re:Product in Search of a problem, creating more by bencoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well of course, if the gun can't be remotely disabled then it is safer to try and get it off them(gender-neutral singular them) as soon as possible.

      In this case however, if they've got a hold of your gun then you can simply back off and then the attacker may attempt to shoot, before discovering that it's disabled and that will give the LEO an advantage.

      It makes sense that police officers would behave differently with a weapon like this.

  4. Re:Why a complicated transmitter/receiver combo? by Neoprofin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unless you're wearing gloves, or your hands are dirty, or the battery dies...

  5. Even more useless... by Boogaroo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At 20cm the average person WILL move their hand/watch past the authentication range. Will they need re-authentication.
    The gun will fire if the attacker has twisted the gun to face the victim because the watch is within range.
    The victim will need to fire with their off-hand because they used their good arm to defend against the initial attack. (This happened recently here.) The gun will not fire because it isn't close enough to the watch.

    This setup is a recipe for disaster. In the name of safety, we will give up everything that gives us a chance against the bad guys.

    1. Re:Even more useless... by Ogive17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The way I interpret it, once you punch in the pin on the watch the gun will work any time it's brought within 20cm of the watch until you turn the watch off. So even if you holster the weapon, when you bring it back out it's automatically "initiated"

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    2. Re:Even more useless... by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You realize that LR (Long Rifle) is the most common designation of for .22 and in fact the assumption is that unless specifically mentioned otherwise (like Magnum, not very common) it is LR?

      Given the choice between being stabbed and shot with a .22 I would take the .22 anyday.

  6. Re:Sorry but how? by Neoprofin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because now someone might actually try to enforce the idiotic legislation.

  7. Civilians with rubber bullets? Cops are bad enoug by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rubber bullets kill, too. In fact, cops shouldn't even be allowed to have them because the perception that they are "non-leathal" just encourages their use -- just like the beanbag rounds. There have been cases where the beanbags come out flat with the edges parallel to the ground, sort of like a frisbee and that the impact at that angle caused severe lacerations. People have died from those, too.

    I'm not anti-gun -- I have many myself. I grew up around them, and I am completely comfortable with them. I also know that if I point a loaded gun with real bullets at a person, I better be absolutely willing to kill them when I pull the trigger. Cops and soldiers are trained to know this, too. But they seem to be more than willing to pop off rubber bullets and beanbags for "crowd control," and death has been a consequence a higher-than-zero number of times.

    The last thing we need is Joe Bob getting ahold of them and shooting at cats, neighbours, or even robbers. You know all those times that burglars have sued property owners over getting hurt while they're there to rob them? Imagine the lawsuits over "he shot me with a rubber bullet, broke my rib, punctured my lung and now just look at me!" I also envision a slew of YouTube videos of drunk-ass morons popping their friends with these to see what it feels like.

    In short, this is pretty much the worst idea ever made.

  8. Re:Strange fascination by Neoprofin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firearms manufacturing is one of the oldest forms of craft and art in the United States as is evident by Pennsylvania's recent push to honor the Pennsylvania long rifle as a storied part of their national history. Furthermore many involve masterful engineering and mechanics as well as providing a fun hobby to enjoy outdoors either in the form of casual target shooting or hunting.

    Oh. You just wanted to register your arrogant distaste? I wont be so bold as to presume you're from a nation on another continent that bans ownership to its own citizens but happily exports them to nations around the world, but I will say you'd be surprised how much more understandable the interest is when they're a common and generally harmless part of your existence rather than an evil bogeyman.

  9. Re:Here's an idea... by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As well as the fact that a .45 makes large holes that let in a lot of air and let out a lot of blood.

    Long story involving a friend back in the '70s with a Class 3 FFL, I ended up with a chance to fire a Thompson 1928 (among a number of other weapons that day) at a hanging wild-hog carcass that weighed around 200 lbs. The entry points were just a bit bigger than the bullet (.45 ACP FMJ) however the exit wounds were anywhere from 2-1/2"/3" up to about 6" or a bit more that I attribute to how the bullet happened to tumble.

    The bottom line was the thing was a mess after 2 or 3 rounds, and after the 5th and 6th, there just wasn't much left to hit except chunks hanging together even using FMJ ammo. I asked about hollow-point and soft-nose ammo, but I was told the Thompsons (and many other MGs and SMGs, and even some semi-auto pistols) tend to experience jams and feed problems with non-jacketed ammo.

    Personally, my home-defense weapon-of-choice is a 12ga pump shotgun like the Mossberg 500. The ability to choose the type of load makes it particularly suited to home-defense.

    I keep 2 rounds of birdshot first, followed up with buckshot for the remaining rounds. At ranges of 25 feet or less as within a typical home or apartment, it doesn't much matter if the shell is birdshot or a slug, it will still put a 2"-3" hole in a person. Birdshot is far less likely to over-penetrate and/or penetrate walls/floors/ceilings possibly causing collateral damage to innocent bystanders.

    If I've fired 2 rounds of birdshot and going for more, I then figure I must be in a firefight so it's buckshot and all bets are off as I'm fighting for survival.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  10. Re:Strange fascination by lwsimon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find this system to be completely intrusive and unnecessary, as an American.

    No criminal record is acceptable, I suppose, though here in the US that bar seems to be getting lower and lower over time. When it was limited to felonies, and felonies were violent crimes, that was fine. But now it is expanded to white-collar crimes and domestic assault that results in a misdemeanor.

    No failed psych eval makes sense, but again - that bar keeps getting lower too. I've heard tales of ex-military being denied a weapon because of a decade-old PTSD diagnosis. This only makes it less likely for them to seek treatment.

    Safe storage? Fifth Amendment. No law enforcement officer will ever enter my home unless they have a warrant or are acting on an emergency.

    Working knowledge of guns? How do you propose to measure this? Anyone who can read can have a "working knowledge of firearms and their use" in about 30 minutes. Sounds like an arbitrary test, to me. One that can be manipulated by whomever is responsible for administering it.

    See, we Americans have a widespread cultural mistrust of government.

    --
    Learn about Photography Basics.
  11. Guns are equalizers by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Guns are the great equalizers: swords and arrows require a heckuva lot more practice to become proficient than guns. It's no wonder governments are afraid of mere citizens having them. What is surprising is the number of ordinary people who have nothing to fear from guns but a lot to fear from governments who have somehow managed to swallow the government anti-gun propaganda. Think for yourself.

    People using guns save far more lives and prevent far more crimes than do criminals using guns. Studies show anywhere from 1.5 million (by the gun hating CDC) to 2.5 million (by a gun loving professor) crimes prevented by the use of guns, usually no more than the criminal seeing it or hearing it, seldom by actually using it. Most gun crimes in the US are by criminals on criminals. Cars kill far more people.

    Considering there are more guns in the US than cars, 300 million of them, one per citizen, they are used incredibly safely. Those who think guns are bad no doubt must think worse of cars.

    And the most fun gun statistic in the US: if you have one neighbor with guns and one neighbor with a swimming pool, your kids are seven times as likely to die in the pool neighbor's pool than from the gun neighbor's guns.

  12. Re:Strange fascination by MiKM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People who wish to kill/harm other people will still find ways to get guns.

  13. Re:Why bother with wireless? by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because the reality is people don't want smart guns PERIOD. Every time you make a gun more complex it becomes more failure prone. The Glocks that almost all police departments use don't even have a safety on it period - because it's an extra point of failure and something to fiddle with. Just like code, a good gun should have SIMPLICITY, both in operation and in design, as a major design goal. Needless "safety" features and ESPECIALLY anything that depends on a battery are needless fluff. A nice semi-stiff double action trigger pull is a perfectly viable "safety" mechanism for 90% of shooters. For the other 10% they need nothing more than a simple manual safety.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  14. Re:Strange fascination by Neoprofin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Over half of those would be suicides and they generally support the sometimes harmful nature of firearms. So would 12.5 Million registered hunters and the law abiding citizens in 1-2 Million "defensive gun uses" every year.

    For the 60 some million people (a rate that increases every year) owning over 200 million firearms 15,000 would be small even if it didn't include police shootings and intentional acts of self defense and is even less if you're cynical and feel that the another third or so shouldn't be counted because the victims were either committed by drug dealers or against them.