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Making It Hard For Extraterrestrials To Hear Us

quaith writes "US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space. In the past, we used huge ground stations to broadcast radio and television signals which could be picked up relatively easily — according to astronomers' calculations anyway. Now we use satellites that transmit at 75 watts and point toward Earth instead of into space. In addition, we've switched to digital which makes the transmissions even fainter. Drake has concluded that very soon, in space no one will hear us at all. I guess we'd better keep listening."

10 of 374 comments (clear)

  1. Fermi Paradox by localman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox. Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.

    Broadcast is not a great communication strategy. On-demand point-to-point communication takes over most things. Advanced civilizations go silent from the outside within a blink of them transmitting their first broadcast signals. There's no reason to think that we'll ever put serious effort into sending signals into the black given all the other things on our plate. And there's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.

    Cheers.

    1. Re:Fermi Paradox by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox. Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.

      Except no-one in their right mind would accept that. The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system, and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.

      Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.

    2. Re:Fermi Paradox by Bartab · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except no-one in their right mind would accept that. The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system, and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.

      The economic return of interstellar colonization is zero.

      The only return is darwinistic. Not all our eggs in one biological basket, and all that. However, unless we're damn sure the target system has an earth-like breathable, survivable biosphere, then we may as well stick to this system. We're not exploiting most of it at all. We -might- find an oxygen atmosphere, heated water laden, near-1g planet "nearby" (100 ly) but it's unlikely. What's nearly impossible is finding one with a biosphere that we can survive in without basically obliterating it and dropping down earth biologicals. Most things on such a planet would poison us.

      Unless such a magical planet is found, exploring outside our system before serious colonization (which -could- be economically valuable) of Mars, gas giant moons, etc is a waste. On all levels.

      If such a planet was found, I'd consider it proof of god.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
    3. Re:Fermi Paradox by bit01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The economic return of interstellar colonization is zero.

      The economic return of life is zero. Pretty pointless expending all that energy to be worm food.

      You need to remember what economic value is - anything that people value and are willing to pay money for.

      And a lot of people think that extending humanity's reach is pretty damn valuable. You might not agree but different people have different values.

      ---

      DRM'ed content breaks the copyright bargain, the first sale doctrine and fair use provisions. It should not be possible to copyright DRM'ed content.

  2. Re:This has its perks by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    [Aliens] might have the technology and desire to invade earth.

    Not if they have any economic sense in their heads. Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth. And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.

    So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  3. Don't forget "Active SETI" by l2718 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There have been several attempts at sending radio messages into space specifically for communication purposes. Whether we keep that up or not is independent of our use of radio for intraplanentary communications.

  4. That's what's wrong with SETI by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason. Much SETI effort was focused on looking for "carriers", big constant-frequency RF sources. Broadcast AM, FM, and analog TV (which was AM video, FM audio) have strong carriers, but that was hugely inefficient. About 80% of an analog TV station's power output wasn't conveying any information other than "We're here". As receivers improved, new RF technologies used weaker carriers, then suppressed carriers, and finally, with spread spectrum, dropped the whole concept of carriers. Many modern RF signals appear to be noise unless you understand the encoding. (The same thing happened to modems decades ago; at 300 baud, you heard tones; at 9600 baud and up, it sounded like white noise.)

    I once pointed out to a speaker at Stanford promoting some SETI scheme that they couldn't detect any emission that the FCC would now license for a new application. He admitted that was true. For our civilization, there was less than a century of high-powered carriers. That's a narrow window to hit for SETI purposes.

    Arguably, though, any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up. Although carriers are going away, all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information. The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data, but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.

  5. it's modulated by r00t · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We have large synchronized power grids. They'll get a signal that's 2x the line frequency. As the Earth turns, you get modulation of various sorts: frequency, phase, amplitude.

    Amplitude goes down for oceans, and up for land. You get more 100 Hz for the Old World, and more 120 Hz for the New World. As different country-sized areas with the same line frequency pass into view, you get phase change.

    It all has a nicely repetitive 24-hour period.

  6. Re:Sufficiently Advanced by itsdapead · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space, so if you can't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.

    Now imagine that civilizations typically switch to non-broadcast and/or digital signals (the latter, if efficiently compressed, will "sound" like random noise) within a century of inventing radio. Instead of spheres, space will be full of 100 light year thick "shells" of easily detectable signals. So its far more likely that we find ourselves in one of the gaps between shells.

    Of course, the Drake equation/Fermi paradox ideas are only plausibility arguments, make all sorts of assumptions about how civilizations develop based on extrapolation from one data point (us).

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  7. Re:Not news by rworne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A great book on the early discovery of sentient species by a superior species:

    The Killing Star

    Relativistic weapons impacting earth from outer space with Michael Jackson's "We are the world" warbling in over all the radio frequencies.

    Great book.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit