Slashdot Mirror


Apple's Trend Away From Tinkering

theodp writes "Having cut his programming teeth on an Apple ][e as a ten-year-old, Mark Pilgrim laments that Apple now seems to be doing everything in their power to stop his kids from finding the sense of wonder he did: 'Apple has declared war on the tinkerers of the world. With every software update, the previous generation of "jailbreaks" stop working, and people have to find new ways to break into their own computers. There won't ever be a MacsBug for the iPad. There won't be a ResEdit, or a Copy ][+ sector editor, or an iPad Peeks & Pokes Chart. And that's a real loss. Maybe not to you, but to somebody who doesn't even know it yet.'"

42 of 965 comments (clear)

  1. It's true by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What makes computers great are their flexibility - it's an entire world to discover to someone young and new. Are we going to be in the insane situation where our children will need to dust off the old C64 from half a century ago just to learn the basics for themselves?

    If all you've got is locked content on locked machines, you end up with mind firmly locked shut.

    --
    Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
    altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    1. Re:It's true by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Inquisitive minds are a danger to authority. Best to shut it down as early as possible. No need to seek out anything. It will be provided to you on a need to know basis. Curiosity should be confronted with great suspicion. If somebody asks a question, the only proper answer is, "Why do you want to know?".

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    2. Re:It's true by ultramk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well... this is one device that isn't even for sale yet. I'll start to worry when nice, open, fidgetable devices aren't completely fricking ubiquitous anymore. I mean, look around you. There have never been this many machines to hack and play with in the entire history of computing, and it's just going up from there. All this "back in my day" stuff just makes a guy sound old and crotchety, and I say this as someone who is in fact old and crotchety. I don't think anyone will be forced to dust off a C64 any time soon, my local goodwill has a stack of P4-class machines stacked outside the back door to haul off... I bet yours does too.

      --
      You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
    3. Re:It's true by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a stupid question.

      Why does every single computer need to be geek friendly? Is it seriously necessary for this whining to continue every time Apple releases a product?

      Here's how it goes: the iDevices are computing as an appliance. They are not meant for you. Why do you feel the need to bitch and moan about every little thing like you are somehow entitled to everything being your way?

    4. Re:It's true by Progman3K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Inquisitive minds are a danger to authority. Best to shut it down as early as possible. No need to seek out anything. It will be provided to you on a need to know basis. Curiosity should be confronted with great suspicion. If somebody asks a question, the only proper answer is, "Why do you want to know?".

      Ironic that this company once ran an ad based on Orwell's 1984 where Apple decries totalitarian control.

      I fixed the problem on my Mac-mini: I installed Linux on it.

      The cat is next.

      --
      I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
    5. Re:It's true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's just an OS. It's not a religion, form of government, or economic system.

      I find a Mac is useful for what I do. You find linux is better for what you do. Somebody else likes Windows.

      There is no one right choice. Each of us is right.

    6. Re:It's true by ProfMobius · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There is a difference between being geek friendly and being antigeek.

      The author is not complaining that the iPad is not geek friendly, but overtly anti geek. Apple is now trying to prevent people from tinkering with their bought hardware/software by blocking all ways of access.

      It is the same mentally as the car makers who lock down all access to the internal working of their car by way of proprietary protocols/special screw, etc.

      For this whole locking down thing, most people are not complaining that it doesn't go their way, but that some random person decided that their way is not authorized or worthy anymore and they can't walk it.

      --
      EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
    7. Re:It's true by cnaumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are right, but you missed the point.

      Apple used to be one of the most geek friendly brands out there. My Apple ][ came with schematics! How cool was that? It is a little sad that Apple has turned away from this, much in the same way that it is sad that hp has gone from a premier instrument maker to a maker of commodity PCs and peripherals. Let us old guys lament a bit.

    8. Re:It's true by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you have an open API for your HD television?

      It runs Linux actually. And there is SamyGO, which is an alternative firmware for Samsung TVs.

      Your bank ATM?

      Not sure what this even means, since the ATM isn't mine to mess with.

      There exist open banking protocols, however, like HBCI.

      Please give it a rest

      No. When I was younger, TVs would come with the schematics. That's the way I like things to be.

      It's not a computer, and it's not meant to be a computer. It's an appliance.

      It's a computer. An "appliance" is a locked down computer.

    9. Re:It's true by zuperduperman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I'll start to worry when nice, open, fidgetable devices aren't completely fricking ubiquitous anymore

      Umm, then you should start worrying. That is the whole point. The whole reason everyone is clammoring about this is that Apple is setting a precedent here. Don't you think Microsoft would love to be able to tell you what you can and can't run on Windows? They'd be ecstatic if they could just "refuse" to let FireFox or iTunes etc. run just by saying "it doesn't meet our standards" or even worse "it competes with our own application". So why don't they? Because they could never get away with it. Even if there was no legal problem, people would go absolutely nuts and protest about it. But if Apple succeeds in creating a hugely successful device here that is totally locked down, and if they further succeed in establishing that it's perfectly ok to refuse an application on the basis that it competes with their own one then do you think other manufacturers will hold back once the general public and industry has accepted the precedent with Apple?

      If you only start worrying about this when there are no other devices left than locked down controlled ones, you will have started worrying about 10 years too late. If you care about this at all, the time to worry is *now*.

    10. Re:It's true by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do you feel the need to bitch and moan about every little thing like you are somehow entitled to everything being your way?

      Beacuse the word 'Insightful' appears next to their name when they write that stuff.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    11. Re:It's true by coaxial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This whole "Mac goood", "Linux baaad" idea when it comes to interfaces and usability is just mindless propaganda. Most people aren't in a position to check this for themselves because Apple is a closed off product that's not really well suited for casual exploration. You need special hardware just to run their stuff.

      Well, anyone can go into an Apple Store, or ask to borrow someone's mac. Also there are plenty of hacks to get MacOSX to boot on non-Apple hardware. So that's really a canard. Anyone can check it out, you just have to want to.

      So "Mac Usability" becomes a myth bolstered by fanboys that need to buy into the cult and then justify their choices.

      Nice try. Just because someone doesn't bother to take the effort to find out for themselves, doesn't automatically make it a myth. I've never bothered to go to northern Canada and see if the Magnetic North Pole and Geographic North Pole are actually different, but that doesn't make it a myth.

      Let me tell you my story. I ran Linux as my primary OS from 1994 to 2005. At no point during those 11 years did I ever have a system that supported all of my hardware. At no point. I used it because, I'm a unix guy. I like the shell. I like scripts. I like that everything is a file. Unix lets me do my work. That said, I am not a sysadmin. I do not like sysadmining. I do not like having to patch my kernel just let get my digital camera to work. (Incremented a hex value in a #define in unusual_devs.h so that my Sony DCF-707 would be mounted as a usb storage device.) I do not enjoy having to manually load a kernel module just to get my printer working, because it fails to be autoloaded. I do not like having a print driver that makes every photo come out pink, and then buy a print driver, only to have the photos still come out pink. (Canon i850. Printed perfectly under windows. The only think I ever used it for, well that and Warcraft III.) I do not like having two(!) different sound systems being installed, and my system still not always have sound. (I loved how I'd get "No ALSA devices found" during boot, but could only adjust my volume through alsamixer.)

      Fuck. That. Shit.

      I got a 17" Powerbook G4, and all my hardware worked. And you know what? I got a terminal, and X11, and XEmacs, and gcc, and everything else I wanted too. It's quite simply a better unix. (I've since upgraded to a 17" MacBook Pro.)

      Linux usability? I'm sorry it sucks. It always sucked. I used GNOME during the 1x days, and it was full of incomprehensible and cutesy options. "Xyzzy Goodness = 0.42," and my personal favorite, "Clock," "Digital Clock," "Another Clock," "Clock with Mail Check." The GNOME folks couldn't say "no," and got a shit. Havoc Pennington and the rest of the GNOME "usability" team, took the message as "no options" instead of "too many options," and subsequently removed everything from the 2.x tree, in the quixotic quest to make it simple for people that have never used a computer before. (It's now 2010. It was 2001 when they started that quest. Even tribes deep in the Amazon and New Guinea had computers then. These folks simple no longer existed.) It still sucks, only now it sucks because you simply can't do the things you used to be able to. KDE? Well KDE4 is quite simply a clusterfuck

      The reason why Linux usability sucks, is two fold.

      1. It's hard. It's hard to do it right. It takes resources. It takes time. It takes expertise. Linux doesn't have the resources when it comes to interfaces, and everyday office software. It just doesn't. Sun is dead. Novel, never had much resources devoted to it. Usability isn't really something you can do right one weekend a m

    12. Re:It's true by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Apple" is not a closed off product; their phone and tablet are. Their laptop and desktop lines are completely open and welcome tinkering, multiple OSes, and anything else you can think of. I don't see why we hold Apple to such a high standard of accountability (robbing our children of their futures, for example) that we exclude everyone else from. Anybody try to hack a Zune lately? Anybody care?

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    13. Re:It's true by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On Windows and Linux (KDE, Gnome...I can't speak for any other set up as I havn't used them. I'm pretty sure Xfce acts the same way though) you can scale windows from any edge or corner, but not on OS X. There seems to be no logical reason for this, and it causes problems if the scaling corner has been moved off-screen or underneath the dock. This is admitedly a minor gripe, but none the less present

      I understand the issue of the little resizing tab possibly being off screen, but the logical reason for not allowing other corners ad edges to be grabbed is that there is no window borders or dressings other than the tab in the lower right corner. They could add window borders or more corner doodads, but the one on the lower right fits right under commonly used vertical scroll bar widgets and keeps the interface clean. Upper left is off limits, up right is a possibility, and I'm not sure what the implications of sticking a widget in the lower left would be. Anyway, it might not be the best, but the reasoning is pretty clear.

      The menus for an application over-write the menus for the OS. Other than the Apple menu at the end, you either have the applications menus or the systems menus. On Windows, KDE and Gnome the applications menus are tied to the window, so not only can you use both system and application menus, but the menus are also visually tied to the application, giving a more obvious link to application functions

      The Apple icon IS a system menu, but what you might be referring to is Finder's menu that you get when a Finder window is active, or you click on your desktop. For those who don't know, Finder is a file browser, like Explorer in Windows or Nautilus in Gnome. In OS X, the file browser is treated like any other application except that your desktop is also a Finder window of sorts. This is identical to Explorer in Windows, and pretty damned close to Nautilus aside from the 'Places' menu. I do wish Finder's 'Go' menu had a permanent placement on the menu bar next to 'Window' and 'Help'!
      How does collocating menu bars with windows visually tie functionality to an application? You still have to click on a menu to discover it's functionality, which on any of the systems you've mentioned changes window focus and activates a different window, closing the current menu you have open. IF there was a windowing system that allowed you to keep open multiple menu's from different apps, maybe you'd be onto something, but the benefits of such a system are not immediately obvious, and I'm not aware of any that behave that way. So, if you can't use more than at a time, what use is it to display all those menu bars at once?

      The dock, to me, seems pretty broken. It is both an application launcher and task manager. Open apps have a little light under them to show that they are active. Other than that there is no visual identification for which apps are running and which aren't. Second, it gets in the way - it is all too easy to activate by accident, especially when the zoom animation is switched on. This also isn't helped by the fact that in between the icons is empty space, rather than a colid (or even transparent) bar - areas where you would expect to not activate the dock do. On Windows you have neither problem - running programs appear in the task-bar, and launcher icons in the quick launch. There is also the start menu which provides access to every installed program (with a few exceptions). It is also clear where the task-bar starts and ends. KDE is pretty much the same in that respect, and Gnome isn't far off. (I havn't tried Win 7 yet, so it should be interesting to see what that's like). As a side note, I hate to think what the dock would be like if it allowed multiple program windows like the other OSs.

      Obviously the menu bars/panels in Windows and Gnome also both manage active windows and launch applications. Neither actually manage running tasks, just active windows - I'll come back to this.

  2. True for the iPod, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But Mac OS X comes with development tools right on the install CD. How expensive (or difficult, back before bit torrent) it was to get a development environment up and running on Windows was what drove me to Linux and I'm pleased that Apple make it so easy to get programming tools on your Mac.

    1. Re:True for the iPod, yes. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But Mac OS X comes with development tools right on the install CD. How expensive (or difficult, back before bit torrent) it was to get a development environment up and running on Windows was what drove me to Linux and I'm pleased that Apple make it so easy to get programming tools on your Mac.

      I think the article author was making a different point than the cost / availability of developer tools:

      Apple, way back when, made it easy to get into the inner workings of its systems. They didn't try to prevent people from finding ways to do things, indeed Beagle Bros. built an entire company around that. 1984 was the epitome of what Apple was about.

      Now, Apple appears to be more ideologically aligned with the "Big Brother" than the hammer thrower. While it's not quite gotten to the "Information Purification Directives" level yet; Apple seems to be much more inclinned to ensuring things are done there way and controlling how their products can be used tahn creating really cool stuff and watching what others do with it, as they were in the Apple ][ era.

      While Job's focus and control has been critical to their success as a company; the down side is a very tight controlled ecosystem. A very successful one, and probably the right way to go; but still controlled.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:True for the iPod, yes. by itsdapead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While Job's focus and control has been critical to their success as a company; the down side is a very tight controlled ecosystem.

      Yet the Second Coming of Jobs has also seen the move from the black box that was Mac OS 9 (limited proprietary applescript macros or pay top dollar for a SDK) to the infinitely more tinkerable OS X (posix compliant, includes a shedload of binary & scripting languages, most of the FOSS ecosystem available via MacPorts or Fink). Its under Jobs that Apple started giving away their industrial-strength development tools free. Even the Great Satan iTunes has the decency to mirror most of its metadata in XML so your programs can get at your playlists.

      No - Apple just has two distinct ranges of products: closed "iAppliances" which are locked down to protect their core functionality and general-purpose Macs, which aren't locked down.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  3. Another One by daveime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm someone else who cut my teeth PEEKing and POKEing on Commodore and Sinclair machines. Hell, there were even magazines with "tricks-n-tips" for useful locations and what values would create what effects. Nowadays I suspect they'd just get sued under DMCA provisions for reverse engineering :-(

    Yes, a sad time indeed.

  4. Buy something else by Ed+Peepers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It was nice to be able to tinker with early Apples because there were few alternatives. But as much as I enjoy a good rant against Apple, I fail to see the problem. Buy your kids something else. Either he thinks the latest Apple SHINY is more important than his child's opportunity to get under the hood or he doesn't, and there are (or soon will be) numerous alternatives that are not as tightly locked. Life is about decisions and trade-offs.

    1. Re:Buy something else by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't just stop there. Spread the word and let people know when you don't like a product, and why. Eventually many people starting out don't need the functionality that they're locked out of, but will in the future. At least make them aware that there are choices. I'd hate to see all computing platforms go the way of the iPhone.

    2. Re:Buy something else by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real concern, broadly speaking, is what happens to the kids whose parents don't know/care.

      Empirically, a fair percentage of engineer/comp sci./science types owe their trajectory(or at least believe they do) to childhood tinkering options. Some sanctioned by their parents, some a tolerated but wholly accidental side effect of parental decisions, and some outright clandestine.

      If tinkerability is default in all computers, all children in computer owning households, whatever their parents motives/level of interest/level of information get access to it. If tinkerability is a special feature, one that you have to trade off against shiny for, a much smaller percentage of children will have access to it.

      This isn't a "OMG, the iCops are violating your rights" thing; but it could easily be the case that the rise of appliances results in a reduction of children's access to tinkering and future motivation in certain directions.

      It's like chemistry sets: If you are really motivated, you can get your hands on home chemistry stuff, no real problem. The death of the (useful) home chemistry set as a normative childhood expectation, though, has vastly reduced the number of kids who get to play with one, and quite possibly the number of kids who end up going in a scientific direction.

  5. Evolution by Chris+Lawrence · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think this is just a natural evolutionary process for most new technology. When personal computers were new, they were mainly purchased and used by hobbyists. Now they are mainstream and most people just want to use them to get things done, they don't care how or why they work. Cars were the same when they were first introduced. You had to know how to tinker just to keep them working. Now cars are everwhere and they are computerized and automated so much, it's hard to do the kind of tinkering that used to be common.

    It's sad to see things change, but there will always be room for those who like to tinker. We still have Linux and *BSD, after all. I love my Mac, but sometimes it's nice to play around with Linux.

  6. Inevitable after Woz left by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Woz was the tinkerer, who brought the spirit of the tinkerer to Apple. Steve Jobs is the anti-tinkerer; he just wants you to shut up and buy cool looking gadgets from him on a regular schedule.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  7. seems like a mistake by ultramk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While this is certainly true for the iPad, iPhone etc, it's really not true at all for OSX. OSX comes with a bunch of dev tools on the install disk, in a way that was not true way back when. Those kinds of utilities existed, but getting ahold of them was non-trivial for someone out in the boonies.

    The iPad isn't a general purpose computer, although it seems like it's blurring the line a bit. Certainly no reason for doom and gloom.

    I always find it a little sad when I read something like this, though. Part of the joy of those days was exploring something new and interesting, finding terra incognita... the problem is that your kids probably won't get that joy in exactly the same way, and very well may not be interested in those things at all... they are actual individuals with individual tastes and interests, not a bunch of little clones running around. It seems like every time someone goes to great lengths to recreate his precise childhood for his kids, it's just doomed to failure, just because they're kids. Unpredictable.

    --
    You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
  8. As one who cut his teeth toggling in values by mikefocke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    in machine language...

    Few people want to play at that level any more and few need to. Most want to create really cool apps and for them access to the GUI is enough. Heck, C isn't taught in many schools any more.

    But if a kid wants to play at low level, there are $25 or less offers on the web for the computers of yore. Or they can start reading code..it isn't like lots isn't available. And even for most OSS, the docs are so much more than the manufacturers manuals were in the 60s.

  9. Parallel with hobby electronics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the 50's and 60's hobby electronics was a huge thing - it was common to see people tinkering in their basements. It might still exist now in some manner, but it's far, far less popular and most people just want to come back from the store with an amplifier or radio that "just works".

    It's the same with computers. We're going through the phase now where hobbyists are lamenting that they're being "locked out of their own computers", but no more than the electronic tinkerers are locked out of their consumer electronics unless they're very good with surface mount soldering and miniaturization.

    The simple fact is that 98% of people out there just want their computer to work. They don't care about getting under the hood. If it plays their youtube videos, netflix streaming content, and lets them send some emails and play the latest game they bought from Steam or Best Buy, they're happy. That's all that's needed. So a company catering to that market instead of the 1 or 2 percent who want to tinker under the hood is just good business.

    Yes, it means that the kind of computing we all grew up with in the 70's and 80's will either die or come close. But that's just the standard life cycle of technologies - it happened with radios just like it's happening now with computers. It's a mistake to extrapolate our interest to the general public, which doesn't share it. Since there are 50 or 100 of them for every one of us, they form a FAR larger market, and that is the direction things will inevitably shift over time. It's a lost cause trying to argue things like "but you're locked out of your own system!!". They don't *care* - that's not what they want out of a computer. The sooner computer nerds realize that, the easier it will be to adjust to the direction the market will be moving over time.

  10. Re:Chill out by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I understand not reading TFA, but at least read the fucking summary. One of his issues is "With every software update, the previous generation of "jailbreaks" stop working, and people have to find new ways to break into their own computers", and I must say, I agree.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  11. But isn't there room for both? by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even Linus readily acknowledges that the world needs more than the Linux model, that the Windows and OS X can all co-exist.

    And I hear people talking all the time that OS X is a joy to program for, and not particularly hard.

    The iPod/iPhone/iPad is in the form factor that's best suited to appliance. That is, most (90+%) just want them to work. Where even the most polished desktop is too complicated for their tastes and task at hand. Shouldn't their demands be met? BTW, I'm not covering for DRM or the like which only serves the content provider -- just that the appliance view of things is really useful to some people.

    Do we complain how the Kindle or past Nokia phones are essentially closed to the average person the same way? Why is this reserved for Apple?

    Really. I taught my 45 y/o uncle how to use a computer (Windows 7), his experience to computers limited previously to ATMs. It was painful. There is so much to learn that us geeks take for granted. The computer's behavior is so seemingly arbitrary at times, as are the solutions sometimes. These people don't want a "sense of wonder", they found it in other areas already and they want to have something easy to learn and use - should they be denied entrance into the digital world because they're not geeky enough? Geez, I'm glad when I don't have to fuck around with yet another relatives beige box for once.

    I hope that the open PC never goes away. But there should be room for other solutions without the endless complaining. (And yes, the steps Apple does to clamp down their devices from the users themselves, who want to explore and not through misuse, absolutely sucks and should be called on it every step of the way).

    1. Re:But isn't there room for both? by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the problem people are having the iPad lockdown is that it is trying to straddle appliance and full computer. The iPhone I'm fine with being an appliance. It's made around a small screen and a very particular UI to deal with that small screen. The iPad on the other hand has this large touch screen and it feels like Apple may end up holding it back by keeping it closed. Only time will tell though, when the iPhone first came out there was no 3G, web apps only, etc...

    2. Re:But isn't there room for both? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only issue is that kids are excited easily to develop for something they already have access to. IE the local high-school has a robotics class where only the geeks sign up for. And a class to write a program for the iPod, that has a lot more (initial) interest. So they get everyone with a ipod wanting to do something cool with it, but then they can't load it onto their own i-pod very easy, and have to have a mac, which they don't have at home and if they do, the $99 required fee is not cheap to the kids at this school... So they are very excited for about 3 days, then get more and more disappointed and many leave. If the iPod/iPhone/iPad development was open how many of these kids would have started playing at home as well, and felt challenged to out-do their friends?
      So nothing wrong with having some open options, and some closed options, but don't pretend that a popular platform for youth being closed has a up-side.

    3. Re:But isn't there room for both? by Rexdude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How's Nokia closed? They don't lock down their OS the way Apple does, anyone can download the S60 SDK and write applications for it, or even just use J2ME.
      Nokia phones have been customizable for ages, even the antediluvian ones like the 3300 or 5100 from around 12-15 years ago allowed you to change ringtones and wallpapers!
      More hardcore hackers change the region product code in the firmware when they're impatient for a new firmware update that's not yet available for their country/region.

      If you ask me, Nokia shows how you can provide a consistent and easy user interface (across all their handsets, not just smartphones) for the technically challenged, yet leave the platform open enough for the power users/hackers/modders etc.

      Case in point- I have both Opera Mobile and Skyfire on my N82, even though the built in S60 browser is pretty decent. Whereas Apple blocks any application that competes with or duplicates features they provide, so you can't have a separate browser application written for the iPhone.

      --
      "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
    4. Re:But isn't there room for both? by brokencomputer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the point is that a lot of people just want a device to consume media on. An iPhone is too small to do so. A computer has multiple purposes. I think a lot of people only use the computer for consumption and that's where the iPad will find it's market.

    5. Re:But isn't there room for both? by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iPad is an appliance. It is a coffee maker, microwave, or stove. It isn't designed or meant to be tinkered. Stop trying to make it a computer.

      That's an absurd analogy. The iPhone or iPad is just as easy to tinker with as any computer. Apple themselves make that point all the time. It's just the distribution that Apple is limiting, and it has nothing to do with technical issues or applicances, it has to do with money and control.

      And despite whatever bullshit excuse Jobs comes up with, that's the same reason Flash is not on the iPad/iPod. A free platform for rich application development would decimate their game sales. Reduces battery life? If that was a concern to them, they should have improved the 3G battery usage in their own software before whining about Flash. Crashing the OS? Flash has caused a lot fewer OS crashes on my computer than the basic email app on my iPhone.

      Do they have the right to sell a closed platform? Sure. Does it show they are a long way from their roots as a hobbyist's platform and company? Absolutely.

    6. Re:But isn't there room for both? by node+3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So what? Most people not only do not want to tinker with their computers, but they see it as a undesirable. They want something that just works. And when it doesn't work, you take it into Apple and they either fix it or replace it, if it's under warranty, or you go get a new one. And then back home, you plug in the replacement and it automatically reconfigures itself with all the exact same files and settings that you had before.

      Now, you may wish to tinker. That's nice. The iPad is not going to remove the ability for people to tinker with their computer. All you have to do is buy one of the countless other computers that are tinkerable. And no matter how popular the iPad becomes (very popular, trust me, most people do *not* share the geek-centered criticisms), and no matter how much the rest of the computer industry follows suit (and believe me, they won't), no matter *what*, as long as there are computers, there will be tinkerable computers. Just buy one of those.

      You, the tinkerer, will *always* be able to buy a PC that meets your needs. Why not allow everyone else the opportunity to do the same?

    7. Re:But isn't there room for both? by MpVpRb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You, the tinkerer, will *always* be able to buy a PC that meets your needs.

      I certainly hope so...but the trend is disturbing.

      The new versions of Windows restrict driver development to "approved corporations" only.

      The mass market is being herded toward "appliances".

      Gamers are switching to consoles.

      Without large sales volume, the "fully programmable" computers will be a high priced, obscure niche product.

    8. Re:But isn't there room for both? by isilrion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You, the tinkerer, will *always* be able to buy a PC that meets your needs. Why not allow everyone else the opportunity to do the same?

      And how I being able to tinker with /my/ device deprives you of your opportunity to not tinker with /your/ identical device?

      And no matter how popular the iPad becomes (very popular, trust me, most people do *not* share the geek-centered criticisms)

      And yes, that's exactly the problem. If it becomes very popular, then we geeks won't be able to "play" with the popular devices. I doubt may would bother if it were a useless piece of crap. Are you telling us that we can't play with our devices, unless we get a less popular/functional one, because you don't want to or know how to play with yours?

  12. DMCA and Buy Something Else by eieken · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What we should be doing is trying to get the DMCA overturned; It is the bane of the tinker. It's ironic because I'm guessing many of the people working on this stuff over at Apple got interested in computers because of the creativity they could express by hacking away at computers.

    I should say though, that Apple is not the only company in town creating hardware, I mean honestly a lot of these articles seem to make some leap at some point about how Apple is representative of all hardware manufacturers, when I think that's just not true. They create some stylish products, people buy them, and then they miss out on hacking the hardware. If people really want the option to hack the hardware, don't buy this locked down crap. It's not like Apple is the only game in town, they live off this spotlight everyone creates for them. Just get that less stylish piece of hardware that offers tons of customization and hopefully at some point Apple will have to learn what they should be doing.

    --
    Meet new people, and kill them.
  13. Re:I knew there was a reason I disliked Apple by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean IPods that you cant change the battery in?

    ... what iPod would that be? You can change the battery in every iPod, it just takes a little effort rather than a trip to walmart for a new 'pack'. Same for the iPhone. Its certainly possible for anyone who wants to put some effort into it, and since the mass of the people buying them will just replace it before the battery is shot anyway, its really not an issue. You want a replaceable battery, if thats a required feature, buy something else. You want the iPod, and its form factor, you don't get an easy to replace battery. There IS an engineering reason to it as well you know, its not just 'because they are assholes'.

    Apple's also lowering DRM in lots of places, and as far as DRM goes, they have about the best system out there to date. Yes, you have to authorize your PC ... ONCE, and assuming it continues to function the same you'll have no problems. You could also, of course, just buy MP3s from somewhere else like Amazon.

    I have distantly wanted a Mac, just to toy with it... but why? No reason anymore.

    Why is that? Macs are still the same way there were 20 years ago from any context relating to this article. If I can run Windows 7 on my Mac, I'm pretty sure you can do just about any sort of tinkering you want. Its not like you can't run Linux on one, its clearly open to screw with however you want. Nothing has changed on the Mac.

    Whine whine, moan moan, bitch bitch, nothing to see here, move along. Don't like Apple, don't buy one. Do you bitch about not being able to modify the ECU in your car? Do you bitch about not being able to change the picture tube/lcd/plasma screen in your TV? Are you mad that you can't upgrade the firmware in your digital thermostat in your home or office?

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  14. Re:Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't that a bit like saying mathematicians should stop focusing on numbers, and instead focus on "real problems"? Calling software development "irrelevant" is pretty ignorant...this stuff doesn't just put itself together (at least, not yet.)

  15. Re:In their defense by cnaumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I agree with everything you say except the part about personal computers programming being more complicated today than it was in 1982. You are not remembering what a PITA programing was back in 1982. In 1982, you either programmed a personal computer in BASIC or assembly language. You didn't do anything that needed to run very fast in BASIC, and writing a useful program in assembly with 48K or RAM (if you were lucky) was not trivial. Granted, expectations were much lower back then, and yes, back then I understood the machine down to the gate level. So while computers are much, much more complex today then they were 28 years ago, I actually find them much, MUCH easier to program due to the availability of very powerful programming tools.

  16. So get a N900 by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most awesome phone ever. Completely open, runs a very normal Linux distro, and you can "apt-get install" stuff on it.

    No jailbreaking needed, the terminal is one of the applications in the default installation, and you can install SSH.

  17. Not ironic, revealing - it's called "projection" by Eternal+Vigilance · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ironic that this company once ran an ad based on Orwell's 1984 where Apple decries totalitarian control.

    When one understands the nature of projection, which is where we attribute to others the behaviors and characteristics we can't see or can't accept about ourselves, one then starts to be able to see expressions like Apple's famous "1984" commercial as the most revealing indicators of the character of and the most reliable predictors of the future behavior of the speaker.

    Projection isn't an occasional occurrence; it's the way the ego functions. It's always operative. Every ego-driven activity - an observation, a statement, an action - one makes is a projection.

    It's true in personal relationships (both on the low side and the high side, it's how people fight and how people fall in love) and in group relationships (read any pronouncement from any country about their enemy and one knows exactly what's true about the country making the accusation).

    The important tell is the amount of emotional energy in the statement. The amount of emotional energy, the reactivity, associated with an action or observation or statement is a measure of the energy the thing to which the speaker is reacting has within the speaker. So lots of short-term energy (e.g., a quick, visceral emotional response to something) or lots of long-term energy (a thing on which one spends one's time and energy, over and over) both reveal that the thing to which the speaker is reacting is unconscious to them internally - and thus is actually what runs them. The same statement made objectively and dispassionately indicates the speaker has a conscious awareness and acceptance of, and thus control over, that characteristic within them.

    And because human consciousness is self-similar, projection works at every scale. It's really quite beautiful.

    Some examples:

    Corporations: Google's mantra of "Don't Be Evil"

    Politics: Bush's demonization of Saddam Hussein as a "brutal dictator" who "hates freedom"

    Nations: Israel's fear that Iran wants to "wipe their enemies off the map"

    Religions: The characteristics people project onto their chosen deity (e.g., Christ's compassion and love)

    Personal: What you're thinking about the writer of this comment right now. ;-)

    Of course, knowing about projection is not only useful in understanding others, it's essential for learning the truth about and becoming responsible for oneself. (The classic mistake made when first learning about projection is to see it only in other people, and not apply it to oneself: "Ha! That idiot has no idea they're projecting!" Oooooops....)

    I'd say the nature of projection is one of the most helpful things I've ever learned, easily the equal of any of my technical education.

    The sadly amusing thing about the "1984" commercial is how much the setting resembles a Steve Jobs presentation.

    "On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like '1984'.

    Give us until 2009."