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"Vegetative State" Patients Can Communicate

Kittenman writes "The BBC is carrying a story about researchers in the UK and Belgium who can detect the thinking processes within a patient previously thought to be in a vegetative state. The researchers ask the patient verbally to think in certain ways to indicate a 'yes', in other ways to indicate a 'no' — and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma."

8 of 347 comments (clear)

  1. Summary wrong: Not a coma! by Tim+C · · Score: 5, Informative

    From TFA:

    "Patients in a vegetative state are awake, not in a coma, but have no awareness because of severe brain damage. "

    1. Re:Summary wrong: Not a coma! by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Considering that Schiavo had no cerebral cortex, it's pretty much a given that she had no awareness. The article doesn't say all patients in a vegetative state are aware, just that some are, or more to the point, have been misdiagnosed.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Summary wrong: Not a coma! by EasyTarget · · Score: 4, Informative

      More importantly, she was put in a MRI scanner and there was nothing there..

      http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/20/regarding-the-cat-scan-of-terri-schiavos-brain/

      However, her situation was only one of the possible PVS states people can end up in..

      I can only hope that -all- PVS patients get such a scan before anything is disconnected, and if there is a brain left they then get an active MRI scan to see if they are actually thinking. While it may not have saved Terri I'm pretty sure it will save some others.

      Oh; and I really worry about decisions made before active MRI and other techniques came about, I think some horrible things have happened.

      --
      "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
  2. Coma, not in a hollywood way. by leuk_he · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is. There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness. In movies, and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up. In reality this is much more complex.

    Anyway, better diagnosis is needed to prevent accidents like Brain scan finds man was not in a coma--23 years later and other possible improvements in brain damage treatment.

    1. Re:Coma, not in a hollywood way. by VShael · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry, but that man in the coma for 23 years, is only "communicating" with the world through "facilitated communication", which is a hoax. A discredited technique.

  3. Re:False Positive by MaXintosh · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem of improper controls and false positives is really serious with these fMRI studies. It can be summed up in three words, really: Thinking dead salmon.

  4. Re:False Positive by Fnkmaster · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't think they addressed the "no answer" vs. "B", however, they did assess the patients' ability to answer a series of factual questions about the patient's life prior to whatever put them where they were - I think that pretty much shows that there is something non-spurious being measured here and it's not just the dead salmon fMRI effect as another reply suggested - the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.

    And 4 out of 23 is not a success rate - it's a misdiagnosis rate! Nobody in their right mind is claiming that *all* patients in persistent vegetative states have meaningful cognition occurring (except the EXTREMELY inaccurate and misleading Slashdot article title). Rather, some patients who failed the standard tests to assess consciousness levels are perhaps more conscious than was previously detectable.

  5. Study only applies to focal brain injury by Michael+G.+Kaplan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Of the 54 patients examined in the study most had suffered either from traumatic brain injury or anoxic brain injury. Anoxic brain injury for the most part means your heart had stopped for a prolonged period of time (although other things such as severe prolonged hypoglycemia or carbon monoxide can do the same thing). Anoxic brain injury is a diffuse process and its course is highly predictable. Depending on the severity of the initial event with anoxia patients will either improve after a relatively short period of time or they never will. Of all of the 'miracle' re-awaking cases that have occurred (extremely rare cases of people waking up to a severely disabled state) none of them have been by someone who has suffered anoxia.

    Traumatic brain injury has a less predictable course as some of the parts of the brain are destroyed while other parts can be relatively undamaged. Of the five patients in the study who were found with some brain activity all of them were traumatic brain injury cases.

    Schiavo suffered anoxic brain injury due to cardiac arrest. These patients never need fancy brains scan as their external findings accurately reflect what has happened to their entire brain. The current New England Journal of Medicine article actually serves to support that anoxia patients have no cognition.