Space Shuttle Spy Gets 15 Years

goG writes "A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information about the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China. US District Judge Cormac Carney called Chung's crimes a matter of national security, saying he had committed a breach against the trust Boeing and the country had placed in him. Attorney Greg Staples said, 'The [People's Republic of China] is bent on stealing sensitive information from the United States and shows no sign of relenting. Only strong sentences offer any hope of dissuading others from helping the PRC get that technology.' Staples also 'noted in sentencing papers that Chung amassed a personal wealth of more than $3 million US while betraying his adopted country.'"

Comments

If only...

[Dr_Terminus]

If only the shuttle was run by Google, they'd have a better chance of gaining access...

Re:If only...

[TrisexualPuppy]

...but let the Chinese have the secrets and dump money into their program. We were getting out of the Shuttle program anyway because it is outdated and has enormous cost. At $700+ million per launch, why not just let the Chinese waste a little money?

Re:If only...

[mrxak]

As far as I'm concerned, it's rocket science, and that's worth keeping a lid on. Any kind of rocket science, unless you can buy a kit in the mail or a hobby store, has pretty serious potential applications. China getting their hands on space shuttle plans doesn't mean they'll build their own shuttle, it means they take some tiny piece of it and improve some military application like a missile or airplane.

In any case, China is trying to get every scrap of technology they can get their hands on, regardless of its potential applications or obsolescence level. Some stuff may be useful immediately, others may be stepping stones to other technologies. Shuttle tech is stuff we improve on to develop new technologies. It's better, from our national security standpoint, for them to be stuck starting from scratch than from getting an idea of where our technology is headed and what we're starting with.

15 years?

[TheDarkMinstrel]

Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty. No New York trials. He's a spy, stealing information that can be used against us. When are we going to acknowledge that we are at (cyber) war with China, have been for years, and start acting accordingly?

Re:15 years?

[Anonymous Coward]

"If China caught an American spy, they would execute him after quick trial."

So PRC should be emulated?

Re:15 years?

[vxice]

Which is why we are supposed to be better. Anyone who argues that spies/terrorists/whatever crime you really don't like/think is horribly immoral should receive any less legal protection than the next guy is actively working to undermine our liberties and founding values no better than the terrorists/ whatever they claim to be fighting.

Re:15 years?

[LordLimecat]

Isnt treason supposed to come with the death penalty?

Re:15 years?

[Nathrael]

Why do we imprison them instead of killing them right away? Spy exchange. You may not hear it on TV, but it's pretty likely that they capture one of ours every now and then just as well, and what'd be a better resource to trade in for our spies than their spies?

Re:15 years?

[mcgrew]

Not before a trial. But come to think of it, the way some legislators (and even judges) trash the constitution, maybe they should be tried for treason as well?

Re:15 years?

[JoshuaZ]

Actually, the treason clause in the Constitution says nothing at all about needing to be a US citizen. However, the Constitution does say that "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." It goes to say that a conviction of treason can only occur based on the testimony of two witnesses to an "overt act" or a confession in open court. Since we are not in a state of war with China, it would be very hard to classify China as an "Enemy" for this purpose. And there's no way you'd have the two witnesses in this case (incidentally, the two witness requirement is one of the very few examples of Biblical influence on the Constitution which otherwise shows largely more Roman, Greek and later ideas as the primary influence). We have separate laws against spying for a reason. So we don't need to try to get people for treason which is (correctly) next to impossible to do.

Re:15 years?

[mrxak]

Yeeeeaaaahhhh.....

The idea that they're all criminals is kind of silly. Most spies operating abroad actually work with diplomatic immunity, gathering relatively public information and doing analysis. There are spies, working with that immunity, who go about trying to recruit assets like Mr. Chung... somebody disaffected, or somebody who has a reason to feel a stronger tie towards another country, or merely somebody who can be bought. They're the criminals, but they're a fairly small portion of the intelligence community as a whole. They're the ones who take the biggest risks, and the ones who get the biggest rewards for their work, if they do it well.

Unfortunately, we live in a world that's not all that friendly. Without spies, there'd be a lot more chaos and death in the world. Spies are the ones that allow leaders to go into a meeting with another leader and tell them "we know you're doing x, so cut it out" and lets military powers stay balanced enough that nobody gains a massive advantage and goes to war. Basically, spies allow for diplomacy to flourish, and they prevent conflicts. China is fully justified in wanting to spy on us and build up technologically and militarily in order to ensure their interests are satisfied. We're equally as justified in wanting to stop them from doing that so our own interests are satisfied. As a patriot, I want my own nation to have the best spies and maintain or achieve superiority in all things. As a rational human being, I'm not going to begrudge any other nation the same desire.

I'm against the death penalty on moral grounds, but treason/spying cases are pretty much the only time when I hesitate to rule it out entirely. The cost of spying against my nation should be prohibitive, and I wouldn't be terribly upset if other nations followed suit. That's the risk assets take.

Ha, he should get a medal

[elrous0]

Letting China waste billions of dollars building one of those money sinks, plus $700 million per launch, would probably be the worst thing we could do to them.

Re:Ha, he should get a medal

[LWATCDR]

Actually the SSME are still some of the most advanced liquid fueled engines flying today. The ET uses ALLI alloy and also very advanced and the SRB are the most powerful solid fuel boosters ever flown.
Throw in the fact that the Shuttle probably has the most hypersonic flight time of any vehicle and you have a really treasure trove of useful information.
Yes the Shuttle was too expensive per flight but really is a technological marvel an one that has produced a lot very useful knowledge.

He got away with it.

[Majik Sheff]

He's 74 years old, he'll never see the end of this sentence. He lived what appears to be a good life living in the country he was betraying (about 3M worth of good life from TFA). His nursing home arrangements are less than desirable but he'll still have better care than many seniors in this country.

i'm going to get modded troll...

[nycguy]

...but I've known quite a few Chinese Americans, both from the mainland and from Taiwan, who despite having become citizens here seem to be more concerned about their former homeland than their new one. I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize. During the Tibet unrest, many Chinese Americans I know accused the US media of bias--begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they're now Americans. Maybe this is no different than past waves of immigrants, and maybe it's no different than some Jewish Americans (even born here) who show more support for Israel than they do for the US. It's also no different than Muslim immigrants to Europe who show more allegiance to their religion and the ummah than their adopted nations. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter. In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population? This story obviously shows one--money--but the question is whether there's anything beyond that.

Re:i'm going to get modded troll...

[shutdown -p now]

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter. In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population?

As an immigrant myself, I can tell you that it depends on the reasons why one leaves his homeland. When it's money alone, loyalty usually doesn't change (it's not really something that can be bought for money). But when one is genuinely dissatisfied with the overall direction of his original society, it's another story.

Of my fellow Russian immigrants, I've seen both kinds. Some come here (Canada) for higher quality of life, but generally try to disassociate from the local culture, and do the same for their kids - their primary social circle is all-Russian, they force their kids to speak Russian first and foremost (even though kids readily pick English first, because they use it more in school) etc. Quite often, such people return as soon as they feel that the quality of life back home has improved enough for them; sometimes, their kids do when they grow up. I've met a few such returnees from U.S. back in Russia as well, and all were rather derisive about American culture and societal norms.

Others come here to settle down first and foremost, and they generally try to integrate, even though it's nigh impossible for the first generation (too old to re-learn everything). The parents usually still have a mostly-Russian social circle, but they try to reach out beyond it. Their kids, though, consider themselves Canadians first and foremost, and their language preferences (they know both, usually, but they prefer English) and behavioral patterns are mostly local.

In conflicts of interest such as the one described in TFA and by you, consequently, the first group would tend to align themselves with their country of origin, while the second group would support their country of residence.

Re:i'm going to get modded troll...

[Bieeanda]

I don't think you're a troll, but I do think that conflating national affiliation with cultural identity doesn't work.

Promoting their agenda using others' advances.

[rdmiller3]

The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda. Let them do so using their own advances, not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.

Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.

Aboard

[pgn674]

I was definitely more excited when I read that as

A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information aboard the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China.

Concorde vs. Concordski

[rarel]

A funny thing happened in the 60's during the development of Concorde, the USSR was of course spying on the Europeans as they were also workin gon their supersonic Tupolev. One of the (numerous) big issues was that of the rubber with which to make the tyres, as it had to be solid enough to resist the speed and whatnot. In a documentary from 99, one of the European engineers said they had noticed spies collecting material on runways after tests, so they created a sort of unusable goo and pasted it on the runways for them to collect. He said he'd have given anything to see the Russians' faces while trying to make sense of the stuff to create tyres with it...

Web 2.0 why not Cold War 2.0

[kenp2002]

Ahh nothing gets a people's mind off their own corruption and failing nation like a good old fashion cold war.

People are easily united against a common foe.

Nothing like calling up China and saying, "Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy. Wanna play the bad guy for a generation or two?"

Re:Why not the death penalty?

[ph1ll]

The death sentence for "economic espionage" [from TFA]?

That seems a bit harsh....

As I understand it, the guy was working for Boeing - which is not the same thing as working for the government. Sure, it was on an outsourced government project. But if the information really were that essential to national security, why the f--- would you outsource it?

(Or am I being somewhat naive about the "military industrial complex" bogeyman, where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous...?)

Re:What could possibly be new about the shuttle?

[LWATCDR]

I don't think the Shuttle is terrible It just should have been replaced. It has been flying for about 30 years now.
Building a more modern Shuttle. I would would really like to see that. The X-33 was supposed to be a shuttle replacement but it got canned for what I think where not good reasons.
Also you don't want to boost the shuttle farther. What you want is a space tug that takes payloads higher. That was supposed to be part of the shuttle program but it got canceled.

Re:Why not the death penalty?

[L3370]

It's not so easy to carry the death penalty for treasonous crimes here in the U.S. because treason has to be witnessed and confirmed by no less than 2 people. Treason was one of crimes that the US founders decided to go heavy with detail. They understood the treason argument was an effective tool for tyrants, so they wanted to be very clear on the subject.

Re:What could possibly be new about the shuttle?

[vlm]

Terrible reasons actually... If they had just decided to use Aluminum tanks instead of the(at the time) troublesome composite tanks they could have had the X-33 flying...

Way too heavy. The whole X-33 project depended on a bunch of exotic technologies simultaneously succeeding. Linear aerospike, metallic heat shield "tiles", exotically structural materials... May as well have bet the farm on a warp drive and computer AI, too.

Reusable SSTO does not appear to be technologically or economically viable at this time. Its like demanding Christopher Columbus wait until he can fly a supersonic Concorde across the pond instead of using his wooden sailboats.