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Microsoft Says Windows 7 Not Killing Batteries

VindictivePantz sends word that the Windows 7 team has posted a new blog entry discussing their conclusions about the reported Windows 7 battery failures. "To the very best of the collective ecosystem knowledge, Windows 7 is correctly warning batteries that are in fact failing and Windows 7 is neither incorrectly reporting on battery status nor in any way whatsoever causing batteries to reach this state. In every case we have been able to identify the battery being reported on was in fact in need of recommended replacement. ...every single indication we have regarding the reports we've seen are simply Windows 7 reporting the state of the battery using this new feature and we're simply seeing batteries that are not performing above the designated threshold. ... We are as certain as we can be that we have addressed the root cause and concerns of this report, but we will continue to monitor the situation."

38 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Windows is not at fault. Hardware or 3rd party software always is

    1. Re:Surprise by socceroos · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...news at 11.

    2. Re:Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't tell if you are joking or not. I mean if a hard drive sector gets corrupt where a set of critical files are and on boot it can't recover them or load them from cache because that is corrupt as well, is that Microsoft's fault if the OS starts crashing? If memory is failing causing a BSOD is that Microsoft's fault? If the video card's VRAM is faulty and is causing the system to crash is that MS's fault?
      The laptop flies off the top of someone's car roof after they left it there before driving off....yep Its MS's fault once again.
      Seriously. There is a crap load MS can be blamed for over the years. But hardware? cut them a bit of slack on a few things.

    3. Re:Surprise by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Windows is not at fault. Hardware or 3rd party software always is

      I have a lot of sympathy for the Windows team on this one - I don't think they're blame-shifting here.

      It's been my experience that the software that reports a problem will get blamed for causing the problem. Maybe "shoot the messenger" is just human nature, but I've often been amazed at how users will blame software that repors a hardware problem that the software couldn't not possibly have caused. "Disk I/O error detected" results in calls of "why are you causing my disks to fail" - after all it must be you, since the other software isn't complaining (failing, mind you, but not complaining).

      And now apparantly "battery failure detected" results in calls of "why are you causing my battery to fail" - after all it must be you, since the prvious version didn't complain.
       

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Surprise by mdm-adph · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ah, I hate sticking up for MS, but it's true. Ubuntu 9.04 introduced this feature, too, I think -- I remember seeing a box pop up for it after installing on my 7-year-old laptop and going "wait a sec..." ...and then realizing that, as far as the software was concerned, my 7-year-old battery with its 5-min lifespan probably has "failed" as a battery. :P

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    5. Re:Surprise by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...which will source the frenzied blogosphere shrieking conspiracy and propagating each others' blind speculation. And of course nobody will pay attention to the only source that can possibly know what they're talking about: the engineers that designed the system..

    6. Re:Surprise by Kadaki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, most of them probably just didn't notice the reduced battery life until this warning brought it to their attention. When I upgraded my notebook's Windows partition to Windows 7 I started getting this message, but I started seeing the warning over a year before, whenever I booted Ubuntu.

    7. Re:Surprise by Chris_Mir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Pretty similar to multi-tier software development, where business logic is developed separately from the user interface. I'm doing the latter and guess who gets all the bug reports?

    8. Re:Surprise by westlake · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Windows is not at fault. Hardware or 3rd party software always is

      That's generally a fair assumption with any OS.

      Win 7 has about eight to ten percent of the global market. OS Platform Statistics

      That translates into a hell of a lot of laptops and a good many batteries that were well past there past their prime before Win 7 was installed. But there have been only a few hundred complaints.

    9. Re:Surprise by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 3, Informative

      XP reported SMART status. It was in the Disk Management administrative tool. (Same place it is in Vista and Windows 7, actually.) Pretty sure Windows 2000 had it also.

      To answer your question: Yes, Windows 7 reports SMART status.

    10. Re:Surprise by omnichad · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, not in a tool. I mean - pop-up warning "Hey, your hard drive is failing" without your intervention. Like the battery warning.

    11. Re:Surprise by Idbar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft Says Windows 7 Not Killing Batteries
      My guess is that batteries are killing themselves as soon as they know they are powering a Windows machine. They have become quite intelligent now.

      Kidding, kidding!

    12. Re:Surprise by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Interesting
      the engineers that designed the system. Are they the same engineers that designed Vista?

      That's the OS which shipped with the "Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery" device that frequently refused to charge batteries even when plugged in, in case you're wondering.

      I wouldn't let Microsoft off the hook just yet. Lithium ion batteries need to be slow charged the last 10-15% of their charge cycle or they will be damaged. There are already known unfixed issues with the Vista/7 battery controller, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear some lithium ion batteries are failing through mismanaged charge cycles.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    13. Re:Surprise by gd2shoe · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think Brian is trying to say that he designed the system and is a bit upset that we're bagging it out without asking him for an explanation first.

      http://www.linkedin.com/in/bngordon

      Brian Gordon
      Group Manager at Microsoft
      Greater Seattle Area

      Ah. I see now. No offense intended. I didn't know that it was personal.

      I will certainly give your team (or peers, whatever) the benefit of the doubt on this, but I don't buy for a second that they're the only ones who can know what their talking about. They may be the only ones who do know what they're talking about, though. (important difference)

      --
      I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    14. Re:Surprise by PIBM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a graphic card can be fried with simple directx calls, they are certainly not well built and as such we can't be blaming microsoft.

  2. Windows 7 is correctly warning batteries? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Funny

    So what does it tell them? "Hey, you seem to be failing. Do you need me to help you?"

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    1. Re:Windows 7 is correctly warning batteries? by noidentity · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think it's warning the batteries that they will be warned, kind of like recently with Windows 7 RC. Trust me, you don't want to startle a Li-ion battery.

  3. almost fooled me... by Cornwallis · · Score: 5, Funny

    I got excited for a minute because I thought the header read "Microsoft Says Windows 7 Not Killing Babies".

    That would have been interesting.

    1. Re:almost fooled me... by ajrs · · Score: 5, Funny

      I got excited for a minute because I thought the header read "Microsoft Says Windows 7 Not Killing Babies".

      That would have been interesting.

      So, Windows 7 is still killing babies?

    2. Re:almost fooled me... by Teese · · Score: 5, Funny

      I got excited for a minute because I thought the header read "Microsoft Says Windows 7 Not Killing Babies".

      That would have been interesting.

      So, Windows 7 is still killing babies?

      They haven't denied it yet.

      --
      "I'm a Genius!"*


      *Not an actual Genius
    3. Re:almost fooled me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank you, Mr. Beck.

  4. Re:It would have been a story if... by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just to play devil's advocate; are we sure it's not the battery or laptop manufacturers that are not admitting their mistake?

    --
    "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
  5. Not news - just like last time by vcgodinich · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What's news here? Microsoft gets vague claims than win7 is killing batteries, with no hard data, no common variable, not even vaguely reproducable.

    This isn't MS covering something up, there was never anything to cover up here.

    1. Re:Not news - just like last time by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      * waves hand *

  6. similar story with Fedora and hard drives by FranTaylor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Fedora recently added a feature named palimpsest that checks your hard drive. I did an upgrade and all of a sudden I am getting complaints about my hard drive being close to failure. I think "no way, this is a pretty new drive". But I dig deeper and sure enough the drive really is bad.

    1. Re:similar story with Fedora and hard drives by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bingo. If there's any story here, it's that Microsoft's reputation is so bad that people won't believe them even when they're right. That and that people aren't very technically minded. I once told my father to us a piece of software to monitor the SMART status on his HDD since it was "making a lot of noise". He just told me that he'd been doing it. About a year later he said that his laptop would barely run so I visited and noticed that the SMART was telling him that the HDD had irrecoverable errors and should be backed up and replaced immediately. When I asked how long it had been saying that, he replied that it had always said that (or something like it) since he first checked (at my encouragement). He just didn't think that it could be a real problem since the computer still ran at that time. Let's face it here, if a person is running Windows, they aren't going to believe that there's a problem until they can't work 'cause Windows gives alert after alert after alert and how can you know which ones to believe unless you're a "techie"? Sure if, you're reading here, you'll know, but 98% of people just don't.

  7. Sheesh. by Esther+Schindler · · Score: 4, Informative

    FYI, If you know that your battery has plenty of juice left, there's a fix available. Sort of. The #5 item in Fixing Five Common Windows 7 Annoyances is "the undead battery." One way to know if it's necessary:

    To see if your battery problems are likely to come from this conflict between Windows 7 and your hardware run the powercfg -energy command from a command prompt. If the result is that Windows was unable to determine the battery’s capacity, sooner or later you will see the misleading error messages or have the laptop shutdown prematurely.

    1. Re:Sheesh. by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Like a zombie battery?

      Yes. When it starts getting low, it moans MAAAAIIINNNNSSSS

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  8. Wha?? by Itninja · · Score: 5, Funny

    "To the very best of the collective ecosystem knowledge, Windows 7 is correctly warning batteries that are in fact failing and Windows 7 is neither incorrectly reporting on battery status nor in any way whatsoever causing batteries to reach this state."

    Can a brother get some restrictive clauses and pronouns up in here?

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  9. Not dead by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft: Oh yes, the, uh, the Battery...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
              Laptop owner: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
              Microsoft: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
              Laptop owner: Look, matey, I know a dead battery when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
              Microsoft: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkably charged, the Battery, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!
              Laptop owner: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
              Microsoft: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

    --
    I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
    1. Re:Not dead by MBCook · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft: Bring out your dead batteries.
      Microsoft: Here's one.
      Customer: It's not dead.
      Microsoft: Yes it is.
      Customer: But it still holds a little charge.
      Microsoft: Not really. It's as good as dead.
      Customer: Look! It plays YouTube for over 2 minutes.
      Microsoft: It's dead. Do we need to come back later?
      Customer: But it's still good. It's happy!
      Microsoft: *THWACK*
      Microsoft: There. Now it's dead.
      Customer: You killed my battery!
      Microsoft: No we didn't. It was already dead.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  10. Re:It would have been a story if... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Informative

    FYI: My Ubuntu install on a Dell laptop throws the same warning ("Warning, maximum battery charge is 44% battery may be old or defective yadda yadda") I never saw on XP, though I doubt that XP had that kind of warning system in place. My battery is an official Dell part, but to be fair, it is an old battery.

    The warning systems are glitchy, or that manufacturers have been shipping substandard batteries and/or power subsystems. Either would come as no surprise.

  11. Re:It would have been a story if... by Zocalo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that is what Microsoft is implying, without directly pointing a finger and risking a potential law suit.

    Chances are that a lot of cells that are only now ending up in laptop batteries have spent quite some time sat on a warehouse shelf somewhere waiting out the financial downturn. Now that there are signs of recovery and people are buying laptops again, the production chain is starting up and those cells are finally going into laptop batteries. However, since the battery as a whole was only assembled last week, say, despite the fact that the component cells were manufactured last year, care to guess which date gets to go on the "Date of manufacture" sticker?

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  12. Remember Kids... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Windows 7 doesn't kill batteries, people kill batteries.

  13. We need more honestly dumb software. by argent · · Score: 5, Informative

    Windows Seven's problem is not that it's doing the wrong thing, it's because it's trying to be too smart about it. It's not smart. It's stupid. A laptop computer (running ANY OS) isn't as smart as a lizard.

    But its user's smart. If your software is stupid (and all software is stupid), and the user is smart (and all users are smarter than their computer, even when they're stupid) then you're better off admitting it than trying to fake it.

    Instead of popping up a "your battery might be about to fail", give us a gas gauge. "Your battery has only [====> 40% ---] of original capacity". Show that for *all* batteries. Let people pop that up even if there's no problem. Let people be smart about it. Or even... let people be dumb about it.

    You might find that people are more willing to replace batteries when they get down to 20%. You might think that's stupid. And it may be stupid. But it's still smarter than stupid software trying to be smart.

  14. Re:Must be the newest OS fad by e2d2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    More likely is that batteries are having their very limited lifetimes exposed to the user via the OS. Most people think a laptop battery is supposed to last indefinitely and charge the same every single time. The reality is you'll probably be replacing the battery before you replace the laptop.

  15. Of course it's not by kurt555gs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft would prolly claims that Windows 7 isn't killing kittens or puppies either, but we know the truth!

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  16. Verification? by hmmdar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is there any other trusted third party software that can be used to verify what Microsoft is saying?