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A Printer That Uses No Consumables

jimboh2k sends word of a printer introduced by Japanese company Sanwa Newtec, called the PrePeat RP-3100 (a play on "repeat"). It prints on A4-sized sheets of PET plastic, and these sheets can be reused up to 1,000 times, the company says. The printer uses heat transfer technology rather than ink, and so has no consumables. There's a video of the printer in operation at the link. The PrePeat costs about $5,600 and a supply of 1,000 plastic sheets will set you back another $3,300. However, the company gives a use case in which a corporation saves $7,360 per year on consumables, as well as putting less CO2 into the atmosphere. So far the PrePeat is available only in Japan.

240 comments

  1. Yes but.... by budword · · Score: 4, Funny

    Are there Linux drivers ?

    1. Re:Yes but.... by Bootarn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One can hope that they release a .ppd, making the printer usable under GNU/Linux, *BSD and OS X at the same time.

    2. Re:Yes but.... by gafisher · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, Windows-only. Linux users will have to plant a tree every few years to achieve the same environmental benefits.

    3. Re:Yes but.... by chibiace · · Score: 0

      linux must save a bundle of trees by having only a couple of physical copies with packaging..

      --
      he who controls the spice controls the universe
    4. Re:Yes but.... by drkim · · Score: 1

      That's OK,
      Linux users got root.

  2. Define "consumable" by kent_eh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These proprietary plastic sheets sound a bit like a consumable to me.
    Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.

    --

    ---
    "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    1. Re:Define "consumable" by cohensh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless it runs without electricity it consumes that as well.

    2. Re:Define "consumable" by davester666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But now you can just file documents by date, and instead of buying new paper, just reuse the oldest sheets that have already been printed. This takes care of the document retention policy at the same time as making filing extremely easy.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Define "consumable" by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pro-tip: Anything that's "resuable" that has a limit on the number of times it can be re-used like, say CD-RWs or this plastic paper, are actually consumable.

      Still, if it really does last 1,000 times (which I doubt), and you're only printing stuff for temporary consumption (as in, you aren't keeping hard copies of anything locked in a filing cabinet), you actually could save enough money -- if you print enough, that is.

    4. Re:Define "consumable" by Ephemeriis · · Score: 4, Informative

      These proprietary plastic sheets sound a bit like a consumable to me.

      Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.

      I've got a boss who prints crap out all the time. Just random junk. Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me. And those random bits of junk get thrown away pretty quickly.

      I routinely have to print out documentation for various clients... Take it on-site with me... And after I'm done there, the printout gets shredded.

      For non-permanent bits of information that you'd still like to take away from a computer screen, this could be very handy.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    5. Re:Define "consumable" by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      It's obviously not designed for printing fileable stuff. Probably more useful for printing things that change daily, like work assignments/maps/other instructions, or menus for the cafeteria, signs about the latest and greatest, and the like. It probably beats replacing everything with an electronic screen.

      Niche application, but a decent one.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    6. Re:Define "consumable" by N1AK · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pro-tip: writing pro-tip just makes you look silly. Additionally, their is a limited number of times anything will work before it fails, we simply define consumables based on the quantity of use being sufficiently/entirely limited. A car isn't generally considered to be a consumable, but they don't have a lifespan beyond the useful lifetime of a CD-RW (depending of course on how you use both).

    7. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Pro-tip: writing their instead of there while critiquing someone just makes you look silly.

    8. Re:Define "consumable" by dangitman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me.

      You're obviously one of the lucky ones, who doesn't have to deal with their boss forwarding emails to them.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    9. Re:Define "consumable" by scotch · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pro-tip: if you're going to be a douche on-line, be sure to login for that extra personal touch.

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    10. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your maps change daily then you must work at the local supermarket. (Our Walmart is like that, its being turned into a superwalmart, and stuff is moved daily)

    11. Re:Define "consumable" by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Funny

      Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me.

      You're obviously one of the lucky ones, who doesn't have to deal with their boss forwarding emails to them.

      The emails he forwards to me are the stupid ones I don't need - chain letters and whatnot.

      The ones that I actually need, with useful links and product specs and whatnot, he prints out.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    12. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, I'll just type it up on my invisible typewriter.

    13. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time I get an email at work that asks me not to print it unless absolutely necessary, I print it and put it in the shredder. Take that, Earth!

    14. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Every time I get an email at work that asks me not to print it unless absolutely necessary, I print it and put it in the shredder. Take that, Earth!

      Yeah, but I bet you recycle the shredded paper, pussy!

    15. Re:Define "consumable" by Starayo · · Score: 5, Funny

      PROTIP: To defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro-tip: anon FTW!

    17. Re:Define "consumable" by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Not to mention...

      For me when ever I print something out it is for the following reasons

      1. It is something I needed stored for a long time and put cabinet and pulled back if I need it again and it is not on my computer.
      2. For something I will need to take a pen and sketch or in general mark up... Check boxes, take extra notes around or highlight key fields.
      3. Something I can fold up into say a booklet (a lot of people doesn't like doing this but I do) so I can read more carefully.

      This type of printing will make me in general afraid to print out anything because I will need to really take care of the paper. Which I don't want to take the responsibility for.

      Consumable Free printers will be worthless until it can print on normal or at least very affordable (Less then carbon paper)

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    18. Re:Define "consumable" by Sillygates · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.

      And, even in a good office, I'd be amazed if even half of them got recycled into the system, and not lost/thrown away.

      Confidential documents?
      * Recovery of the last print might be possible?
      * It's a pain to erase the pages (refeeding into an appliance)

      --
      I fear the Y2038 bug
    19. Re:Define "consumable" by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Well to trade anecdotes, I am pretty much the exact opposite, the only things that I print out are stuff I need once, hotel reservations, train tickets(in Germany you can buy and print-out train tickets for long distance travel online, much easier than trying to get a real ticket). After I have taken the train trip or stayed at the hotel there is little reason for me to store the documents for later(though the caveat is the German train conductors tend to punch holes in the paper....)

      This is perfect for documents like that. In fact, I print so rarely that I don't even own a printer, fortunately my work lets me get away with limited printing, but I would consider one of these things as unlike inkjet printers, the ink will not dry out. Paying $20+ for about 20 pages does tend to get a little old.

    20. Re:Define "consumable" by timeOday · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hear, hear. I'm holding out for a perpetual motion printer that consumes no energy to do its work.

    21. Re:Define "consumable" by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Where I work, I could swear many of printouts are never even looked at. There's always a stack of printouts on the printer, just sitting there. (Incidentally, an awful lot of them do not appear to be work-related).

    22. Re:Define "consumable" by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 1

      Unless it runs without electricity it consumes that as well.

      It's steam-powered, using waste heat generated from the CPU in your computer. The rivet work on the boiler is awesome.

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    23. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chris? Is that you? Why you gotta be hatin' on my chain letters?

    24. Re:Define "consumable" by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Better in a filing cabinet rather than on a cold radiator. My co-worker placed his file folder full of engineering documents on thermal copy/fax paper at the end of one summer. First time the heat turned on in the fall, he had a folder full of black paper. Thermal copiers are old, abandoned tech, though reusable plastic thermal paper may be new.

    25. Re:Define "consumable" by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      And one less machine to buy when your company becomes a target of an SEC investigation! Just put the paper into the printer, hit "Erase", and the evidence is gone! It's like Magic! [/infomercial]

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    26. Re:Define "consumable" by Shin-LaC · · Score: 1

      In Italy, when I buy train tickets online, I get the reservation info on my phone by SMS. When the train conductor comes, he asks me for the car and seat (in case I decided to move to some other empty seat) and checks my reservation code on his PDA. There's no paper involved.

    27. Re:Define "consumable" by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Somehow, I doubt that "erase" destroys the previous version beyond forensic analysis.

    28. Re:Define "consumable" by Denihil · · Score: 1

      Pro-tip: Pro-tips are pro. Like a tip. That's pro.

      --
      WÌÌfÍ--ÍSÌÒÍ...Í...ÌHÌÍfÍÍÍ--ÍÍÍ
    29. Re:Define "consumable" by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Unless it runs without electricity it consumes that as well.

      Actually, it doesn't consume electrons. The utility company basically requires that you return all electrons they give you. If it consumed them, it'd require very few, E=Mc^2 and all...

    30. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q-Tip: Clean your ears. Tes portugaises sont ensablées.

    31. Re:Define "consumable" by kimvette · · Score: 1

      I've got a boss who prints crap out all the time. Just random junk. Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me. And those random bits of junk get thrown away pretty quickly.

      Have you been forgetting to put cover sheets on your TPS reports again? Didn't you get the memo? I'll go ahead and get you a copy of the memo.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    32. Re:Define "consumable" by cntThnkofAname · · Score: 1

      That's a good point, but paper isn't stuck in filing cabinets forever. I work a pretty lame job of filing such papers (at least I have a job right?) that have been moved from some company to the one I work for, for 10 year storage and destruction. Day in and day out I sort through 10 kilo plus, boxes of random paper and no one will probably ever care about again.

      We've been using consumable paper since the Egyptians first wrote on papyrus. You think a few millennia later we would have something better eh? It may not be perfect ATM, but having a re-usable option is a great step in the right direction IMO.

    33. Re:Define "consumable" by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      By that logic we'll never have anything truly green.

      This is not the most appropriate tool for hard copies of records that are going to be stashed in a filing cabinet for twenty years. However, for uses in which the paper is used once or twice and then discarded (handouts at a meeting, internal memos, etc.) this would be perfect.

      A business with at least 100 people in it could probably justify the expense.

    34. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Big stores periodically rearrange the shelves on purpose to get you to wander around more. If you already know the layout, you are less likely to impulse shop from seeing something you weren't actually looking for. Watch that superwalmart. After it is "finished", you'll notice them doing it again a few months later.

    35. Re:Define "consumable" by karnal · · Score: 1

      Nope, you have to print random dot patterns at least 7 times to make it difficult to recover, 25+ times to make it impossible.

      Hopefully they have a sheet feeder on it so you can just tape the ends together to make it loop automatically!

      --
      Karnal
    36. Re:Define "consumable" by veganboyjosh · · Score: 1

      I'll be in touch about the "Carbon Offset Offset" startup I'm working on getting going. We'll have parking lots full of Hummers idling while teams of folks pour fly around the world to dump used motor oil in lakes.

      We could use some more forward thinkers like yourself with innovative ideas to neutralize the carbon neutral.

    37. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Step 1: Print sheet
      Step 2: Scan sheet
      Step 3: Reuse sheet
      Step 4: ...
      Step 5: Profit

    38. Re:Define "consumable" by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Big stores periodically rearrange the shelves on purpose to get you to wander around more. If you already know the layout, you are less likely to impulse shop from seeing something you weren't actually looking for. Watch that superwalmart. After it is "finished", you'll notice them doing it again a few months later.

      That is absolutely true. What is funny about that is that a year or two ago somebody did another study and discovered that while there is a significant amount of impulse buying, the people who spend the most money don't impulse buy. Which fits with what I find, I get angry whenever I go into a store I frequent on a regular basis and can't find what I am looking for where I expect it to be. I tend to shop at the same stores all the time. However, those stores are stores where I can go in, walk straight to where the item I am looking for is, get it and leave. If I go into a store for a single item and it isn't where I expect it to be, I am significantly less likely to return to that store the next time I need a single item (and somewhat more likely to make my big shopping trips elsewhere as well).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    39. Re:Define "consumable" by FragHARD · · Score: 1

      Of course there reusable when you need to leave them in a filing cabinet for any length of time you can just run them through the copier and put the copies in their place then reuse the plastic sheets! This could also save a lot of printer time as you only need to print one copy of a document that needs to be distributed to say 500 people then place that original plastic on the copier and make 500 copies... in the mean time the printer could be printing other jobs ;) I think this is a great idea don't know why they haven't thought of it before ???

      --
      FragHARD or don't frag at all
    40. Re:Define "consumable" by natehoy · · Score: 1

      At $3.30 per sheet, your boss would have to hand you one page per working day for several years in order to pay for each sheet of this, and that's assuming he doesn't circle something with permanent marker, fold it, crease it, wrinkle it, spill coffee on it, or staple it to another document. If any one of those things happen it can't be fed through a printer again.

      And "heat transfer" means some form of toner and a crapload of electricity. So you still have a consumable and electricity to contend with, and I'll bet you their toner is more expensive than what we buy for our laser printers at work.

      I take all the printouts I absolutely need to make and (when I'm done with them) put them face-down in a stack on my desk (except the stuff that needs to go to the shredder). Then, when I need scrap paper to scribble down details or write quick flowcharts or whatever, I grab one of them and scribble away. So at least the paper gets used twice before going into the recycle bin.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    41. Re:Define "consumable" by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      And "heat transfer" means some form of toner and a crapload of electricity. So you still have a consumable

      I was pretty sure they wouldn't say "no consumables" if it used toner. Furthermore, toner is not "heat transfer" but rather "heat fixture"--the heat doesn't transfer the toner to the paper, it binds it to the paper once it's there. Reading the article, I see that this is the case: the paper is set up to change color back and forth depending on how it is heat-treated. No external toner whatsoever, just the special, re-usable paper.

    42. Re:Define "consumable" by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      Pro-Tip: A PROTIP is WAAAAAAY more serious and intense than your standard Pro-Tip.

    43. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am guessing that paper also decomposes better then plastic. Not knocking the idea but we already have a problem with plastic ending up in all sorts of places it shouldn't.

    44. Re:Define "consumable" by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      I wish my Boss (actually, most of the people I work with) would forward E-Mail to me, or write me E-Mail in general. I work at a place with a bunch of people who are generally not very good with tech stuff. I sent out informative messages/questions, I get "We'll have to sit down and discuss this." Trying to find a good time for both parties to be free ends up taking longer than sending an Email message would have.

      Email you can read and respond to when you find time. The Email isn't really important? You can just take 2 second to file it away in case it is someday important. If the boss wants to send me every joke and every detail of his day in an EMAIL. Fine. It is better than sitting in a fucking meeting and listening to said things.

    45. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how well this product would work in a classified environment and how easy it would be to try and recover the last printing on an erased piece of paper/ plastic.

    46. Re:Define "consumable" by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Well, I was mostly joking. My boss is actually very good with email, and email is the primary way we conduct business. But I think we all know people who use email inappropriately and forward all kinds of crazy stuff.

      That said, I used to be against the over-reliance on face-to-face meetings, but they are actually very useful. Even if they might not be as brutally efficient as email communication, they help the social aspects of business. I've found meetings where nothing productive seems to happen are actually invaluable, because they can act as a pressure relief valve that can diffuse workplace tensions.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    47. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the electricity is of course not a consumable.

    48. Re:Define "consumable" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For non-permanent bits of information that you'd still like to take away from a computer screen, this could be very handy.

      If only some computer vendor would make a device that is portable and allows you to write on it!!!
      And read from it! You know, like an ebook reader.
      Except then more functional. With optional 3G connection. Multitouch is a must, multitasking is completely unnecessary.

      Who oh who could bring us such a device and save the rainforest???

    49. Re:Define "consumable" by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Pro-tip: Using "their" and "there" interchangeably looks sillier than "pro-tip."

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    50. Re:Define "consumable" by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      Unless it runs without electricity it consumes that as well.

      Actually, it doesn't consume electrons. The utility company basically requires that you return all electrons they give you. If it consumed them, it'd require very few, E=Mc^2 and all...

      1 electron yields ~8E-14 Joules. That's not enough.

      --
      $ make available
    51. Re:Define "consumable" by cffrost · · Score: 1

      You're obviously one of the lucky ones, who doesn't have to deal with their boss forwarding emails to them.

      You're obviously one of the unlucky ones, who doesn't use "Fwd:" in subject as a spam filter rule.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    52. Re:Define "consumable" by Spatial · · Score: 1

      It consumes electricity but electricity isn't "a consumable" in this context since the device can't exhaust it. That's equivocation.

    53. Re:Define "consumable" by ormondotvos · · Score: 1

      Are you implying that a business would actually keep paper in a filing cabinet, rather than as a text-searchable PDF? "Here, look at this. Now give it back!" Gawd, what a concept!

    54. Re:Define "consumable" by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you can recycle. For example, I use my old cars as drink coasters.

    55. Re:Define "consumable" by natehoy · · Score: 1

      OK, misread that bit, sorry - my bad.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    56. Re:Define "consumable" by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      Pro-tip: Anything that's "resuable" that has a limit on the number of times it can be re-used like, say CD-RWs or this plastic paper, are actually consumable

      Not to be a contrarian but... your monitor is a form of reusable "paper". An LCD monitor is theoretically reusable for centuries if properly cared for and shielded from power spikes.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
  3. Ugly plastic wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What, the company is supposed to supply a use case that doesn't support the product?

  4. $3.30 each? by FrostDust · · Score: 1

    How soon until one doesn't feel guilty about throwing away a sheet?

    1. Re:$3.30 each? by Polumna · · Score: 1

      How soon until one doesn't feel guilty about throwing away a sheet?

      Assuming constant cost of 3.30 USD? And they're available only in Japan? I'm guessing in six years. Three years if Sarah Palin gets elected in 2012. :P

    2. Re:$3.30 each? by Garble+Snarky · · Score: 1

      Why would you throw one away?

  5. Under a very narrow set of conditions... by ErikZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Great, so long as you never pin the paper up, fold, wrinkle or spindle it. Never get oil on from your fingers on it, coffee stains, pen marks, or tape residue.

    Until they include a box that will shred the old "Paper", melt down and extrude new paper, this is worthless.

    --
    Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    1. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by Anonymous+Cowar · · Score: 1

      you're forgetting the number 1 thing that happens to paper as soon as it is printed. Usually whoever gets the stack of paper (because if you're just going to do one sheet, may as well just read it and display it on the computer, will tap the stack against the desk and then staple it. Pretty much if you staple something 10-20 times, it's corners become a horrible mess (my wife is a teacher, remember back to those posters stapled to the bulletin board).

      Although i guess that's a feature, if you can't use staples with the paper, you save on those too.

    3. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by westlake · · Score: 1

      Great, so long as you never pin the paper up, fold, wrinkle or spindle it. Never get oil on from your fingers on it, coffee stains, pen marks, or tape residue.

      How well these print-outs stand up to light and heat?

      Can you leave them on the seat of your car on a hot summer's day?

      If document retention is an issue, will an ordinary fire safe or cabinet do the job?

    4. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until they include a box that will shred the old "Paper", melt down and extrude new paper, this is worthless.

      Curses, this printer could have been worth using, but without that next refinement, it's totally useless! Oh well, maybe someone will come up with a perfectly-designed version of this in some future epoch, when cockroaches rule the world.

      I'll bet that feature is coming soon. In the meantime, this is very worthwhile for the appropriate use, in conjunction with a traditional paper printer.

    5. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by tuxicle · · Score: 1

      Until they include a box that will shred the old "Paper", melt down and extrude new paper, this is worthless.

      Does one have to sing "Stamp it, file it, send it overnight" to make this work? Ah, the cycle of bureaucracy is complete!

    6. Re:Under a very narrow set of conditions... by natehoy · · Score: 1

      For feeding into a heat transfer printer, one stapling/de-stapling is almost always sufficient to ruin it. Thermal transfer systems usually gets messed up if the media isn't pretty darned perfect (scratched toner drum, mangling of the rubber wheels that handle the media, etc)

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  6. Retraining needed by zwede · · Score: 1

    At $3+ a sheet the hardest part will be to train managers not to throw the printouts away after the meeting.

    1. Re:Retraining needed by RichM · · Score: 1
      This reminds me of those idiots who have ridiculously long and completely useless legalese email signatures.

      Example:

      Do you need to print this email?
      -------
      Scanned by some stupid fucking virus scanner
      AV release: 21 July 2007

      This E-mail and any attachments are private, intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, they have been sent to you in error: any use of information in them is strictly prohibited.
      The employer reserves the right to monitor the content of the message and any reply received.

      Go die in a fire.

  7. usefullness? by green1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's great and all, but if I was keeping the physical piece of "paper" I wouldn't need to print it in the first place, and if I did need to print it, I would want it to be permanent, so I wouldn't be ever re-using the sheet. I print things either because other people need them, so I'd be giving away all my expensive plastic sheets in no time flat. Or because I need to keep a permanent copy, so I would never re-use the plastic. Many of those I didn't give away would have been cut up to make quick reference cards, labels, etc.

    If they came up with a way to do this with plain paper (say some form of laser etching which required no toner/ink/film/etc) I'd be interested, but as long as it only works with it's own proprietary "paper" this is pretty much useless.

    1. Re:usefullness? by oh2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of hardcopy is only read/used once or twice and then recycled. Sounds like a great idea to me.

      --

      Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won't engulf my head, I can see by infra-red, How I hate the night.

    2. Re:usefullness? by BattleApple · · Score: 1

      This is very true.. There's a bin right near my desk at work for recycling printouts that contain sensitive information. It probably holds about 5000 sheets of paper and gets emptied weekly. Plus, we pay to have it shredded by a mobile shredding service. There's also the issue of cover sheets that contain nothing but a user ID that just gets tossed right into the recycling bin.
      This would be great for meetings where everyone gets a printed copy of the agenda. As soon as I get back to my desk, I have no need for it since it's all stored electronically to begin with. Almost all printed documentation becomes obsolete in a few days when you're working on a project.

    3. Re:usefullness? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At work it happens regularly that I print some information before a meeting and throw it away after the meeting (I don't have a laptop at work, only a desktop and my brain is too small to memorize all nitty gritty details).

      So such a re-usable paper would be great. In stead of throwing away the sheet, I can re-use it for the next meeting.

    4. Re:usefullness? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      id see great use for that in my work, we print out all the schematics and mechanical drawings cause its easier to work with these rather than jump to the nearby desk to your laptop every 10 seconds. naturally after the work is done, the printouts are just garbage. more than that company policies demand that this garbage gets disposed securely, that is we employ a company that shreds all our confidential printouts

      this would kill two birds in one go for us

    5. Re:usefullness? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Or because I need to keep a permanent copy, so I would never re-use the plastic.

      It's curious you say that... You consider a paper copy "permanent"? I've always considered the electronic copy to be the "permanent" and original document (presuming it's well backed-up), while a paper copy is a transient snapshot, something that can be handed out for easy reference during a meeting and discarded at whim, because one can always print more.

      I wonder if the lack of paperless offices around the world are as much about psychology as practicality? There are probably very few cases where printed paper couldn't be completely eliminated with a bit of ingenuity and careful planning, but I think too many people don't perceive documents as real and permanent unless they're printed on paper.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    6. Re:usefullness? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of hardcopy is only read/used once or twice and then recycled. Sounds like a great idea to me.

      If you're printing stuff out to only read it once, maybe you should ask yourself if it wouldn't be better to just read it on the screen instead.

    7. Re:usefullness? by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      It's quite simple: We KNOW paper can last over 1000 years and still readable with some care. Otoh, there's magnetic media from the 70's that will never ever again be readable, simply because the media has degraded. And even worse, there's optical media from the 90's and early 2000 that has already simply degraded(Lost a couple of thousand photos that way: Burned on quality CD's, stored in envelopes in a climate-controlled vault. Got it out last year, to drag it all on to DVD's instead, noticed that the CD's had an odd sheen... and they were completely unreadable, tried to read them with 8 different drives)

    8. Re:usefullness? by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Not always feasible. For instance I code more efficiently if I can print out a copy of what I'm working on (often on multiple pages), lay out the pages on my desk (or maybe the odd one here and there that are relevant), and figure out what I want/need to do. This is particularly true if I'm trying to get familiar with someone else's code. However after having achieved my goal, that print out is obsolete because I'll have changed/rewritten some (or a lot) of it. Another case would be data models produced by a data modeler (or a similar specialist) on an tool that's too expensive to purchase for every developer, and where the product gets revised more frequently early in the development lifecycle. Yes, you could have online bit-map pictures, but that's not as easily readable, and there's something to be said for having that next to your desk or on the wall without needing to use up display space for it.

      Until wall-sized e-ink displays with minimal power consumption are cheap, this should have a niche.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    9. Re:usefullness? by bertok · · Score: 1

      A lot of hardcopy is only read/used once or twice and then recycled. Sounds like a great idea to me.

      If you're printing stuff out to only read it once, maybe you should ask yourself if it wouldn't be better to just read it on the screen instead.

      Because most business managers buy the cheapest possible 15" monitors for their employees, the ones with the analog inputs only, and then they say things like "I don't like reading on computer screens".

      Meanwhile, DELL will sell a 24" high resolution LCD with good contrast and deliver it for $189, which is about the equivalent of 60 sheets of this magic reusable paper. Think of the monitor as super-magic paper that can be reused an almost infinite number of times!

      I work as a consultant, and have to process or generate enormous amounts of written material, but I print only a few pages a year, and wouldn't need to do that either if digital projectors were more common in meeting rooms.

    10. Re:usefullness? by TimboJones · · Score: 1

      I code more efficiently if I can print out a copy of what I'm working on

      I do this on occasion too, usually when I want to compare several similar chunks of code to extract common functionality. But when I do this, I want to take notes, next to the relevant code chunks, on the paper. Doesn't seem like this tech will work well in that scenario.

    11. Re:usefullness? by moortak · · Score: 1

      It gets used once or twice, sure. During that time it gets stapled, smudged, marked up, bent, torn, handed out, or any number of things that will make it unusable in the future. At 100 times the cost for paper and a higher cost for the printer it will be hard to justify it from a business perspective. Given the specialty nature of it, repairs will pretty much have to be handled by the company. Six sheets per minute is also ridiculously slow and it only holds 50 sheets in the feed tray. It isn't really ready for mainstream office use. Also 230 DPI isn't very good for black only.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    12. Re:usefullness? by ppanon · · Score: 1

      If this is a thermal-based imprint, maybe they could also have a pen that would allow you to write to the paper non-destructively

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    13. Re:usefullness? by quadrox · · Score: 1

      well, duh!

      I never understood people making backups on CD/DVD.

      Buy a big harddrive and make backups on that. Preferably an external harddrive that you store someplace else, or at least one that is not always plugged into the computer.

      Much much easier than having to go through heaps of CD/DVDs every couple of years and reburn them to make sure all your data is ok.

    14. Re:usefullness? by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      Same problem there. I have zip drives and old HD's that have been in storage that are completely unreadable

    15. Re:usefullness? by quadrox · · Score: 1

      Well, whenever I upgrade the hard drives in my computer (which happens maybe once ever year or two years), I copy all data to my new drives and then use the old ones as backup.

      That way my backup technology is never older than one year and is guaranteed to not be completely useless.

      I always have ALL my data on the set of drives in my current computer, and on the set of drives I took out of the computer (in addition to whatever I may have on external drives, my laptop, whatever).

      This is so simple that I don't understand how it is possible that not everyone is doing this.

    16. Re:usefullness? by invalid_user · · Score: 1

      In the printing industry, stuffs are frequently printed just for proofing purposes. The wasted papers cost the industry gazillion dollars every year.

      This printer is perfect for that industry.

    17. Re:usefullness? by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      I think what you guys are missing is that there is a fundamental difference between backing up to HD or DVD, and printing out the backup.

      The printed copy is analog, NOT digital. As such, a wide variety of damage effects (aging, coffee stains, fading ink) can be overcome w/ careful reading, or IR viewing, etc. But the digital copies are pretty much lost once a certain percentage of the bits are degraded beyond recovery ('specially if you failed to use RS(2750,2200) FEC in the first place).

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  8. Heat Pen? by silverpig · · Score: 1

    For writing on these sheets with?

    1. Re:Heat Pen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not currently possible. The sheets are actually reset fully to black before the printer generates an image by using varying levels of heat to generate the white portions. It's a subtractive rather than additive process.
      A "pen" would have to somehow emulate the process that they use to make the sheets black again..

    2. Re:Heat Pen? by BoppreH · · Score: 1

      A white-on-black pen wouldn't be that bad.

    3. Re:Heat Pen? by BattleApple · · Score: 1

      So it would only have to emulate the process that turns the white areas to black. The pen doesn't need to create any white areas

  9. No ink but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No ink but paper costs $3.30 per sheet? How is that better? Yes they say it isn't most printing done to have a "hard copy" of something? You wouldn't want to erase in that case.

    1. Re:No ink but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can use them a thousand times, each sheet is worth about 12$ of recycled paper.

  10. Yeah by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is nice, but misses the purpose of more than half of most printing - to distribute to other people and to mark up your own copies. If I give anyone else the sheet, it's no longer recyclable by me. If I mark up a hard copy - or just make notes while I'm in a meeting - it's no longer reuseable. What about staples?

    If I've got a dozen people in my office, it would be cheaper to simply buy them each a KindleDX - and I'll never run out of paper there.

    (Yes, I'm being negative today. I'm sure this has a niche - like a training center where you can update your handouts for each class, as long as thy can't take them home)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Yeah by Sylak · · Score: 1

      The purpose isn't to eliminate copy paper all together, it's to reduce the need for copy paper when you have documents which are for a temporary purpose but require a hard copy, for example print-outs for a business meeting, or making drafts of proposals to have people look over before making the final product, or even just making originals to photocopy onto traditional paper.

    2. Re:Yeah by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Those all sound great, until you realize-

      Most people who are actually engaged in a meeting will make notes (or just doodle) on the handouts. Even if only 1 in 10 marks their sheets, you've cut the duty cycle on this paper to 1/100 of its design life (and made the sheets essentially $0.33 each).

      If I give someone a draft to review, I expect it to come back with editing marks on it - in a color which stands out (like red). That will make the sheets useless.

      Unless you are making a hard copy original to send to a printer for reproduction, the best copies are digital and are printed in multiples rather than photocopied. There are still some large corporations which will have a physical copy center, but even many of those have transitioned to using electronic (often PDF or TIFF) originals.

      Architectural firms will print a single "original" that gets sent out for reproduction, but that's usually because it has to be hand signed or crimped with a seal (which would make the set non-reusable yet again). Electronic signatures can be used now, but at that point you could just send the digital file for reproduction.

      Don't get me wrong - this is pretty cool - but I don't think it has the mass market capability at anywhere near this price point. It might be very useful in special environments like high-class clean rooms.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    3. Re:Yeah by DallasMay · · Score: 1

      Don't think office here. Think K-12 Education. As a teacher I make hundreds of copies each day. This could save school districts MILLIONS of dollars.

      --
      I've given up on Slashdot's comment scores.
    4. Re:Yeah by tftp · · Score: 1

      As a teacher I make hundreds of copies each day. This could save school districts MILLIONS of dollars.

      What is the condition of sheets that you collect after the class? How many can be reused?

      And while on the subject, why don't you reuse the paper copies that you make?

    5. Re:Yeah by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      I still can't find a use where the usage of the paper is gentle (so it can be reused 1000 times), and the end user neither keeps the sheet nor makes any marks on the paper whatsoever. At the cost of the paper, the break-even point is between 100-600 reuses per sheet depending on how expensive your toner costs are. You would have to use the same sheet every single day for a year just to break even. I can't imagine what that sheet would look like by then in the hands of...well, any grade student.

      Maybe tests where the answers are filled in on other sheets, and the student must use another sheet as scrap/calculation paper? That would be one. Lunch menus or internally distributed, short time horizon announcements (though our teachers use email for this) might be another.

      Also, for the cost of each printer and a pack of 1000 sheets, you could print 300,000 sheets of paper on a leased commercial copier (given typical copy rates). I don't know how many copies your district actually makes, if you put just one of these printers and a pack of paper in each of (say) 40 schools, that's the same as the cost of 12 million single sheets. And you couldn't mark on or send a single one of those sheets home.

      I'm all for saving money in school. We're in a minor crisis ourselves - I say "we" as I have a 2nd grader and my wife volunteers about 10 hours a week at the school. This stuff just looks expensive except in the most ideal cases.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    6. Re:Yeah by karnal · · Score: 1

      Don't you realize that if this technology caught on then you'd set yourself up to sell a heat pen to go with the paper? Just like those cold soldering irons, you'd just heat-r-up and make your annotations. Wham. Never need an ink refill/sharpener again!

      Of course, there are battery considerations. Those would probably balance out the "green" factor.

      --
      Karnal
    7. Re:Yeah by natehoy · · Score: 1

      it would be cheaper to simply buy them each a KindleDX

      Good point. At $3.30 per sheet you could afford one KindleDX for less than the cost cost of about 100 sheets of this plastic paper. Kindles can hold many thousands of pages, and can be reused for a long time. Plus, the recipients can annotate their copies without ruining the storage media, and if they ever needed a permanent copy they just print out what sheets they need on good paper, or back their documents and annotations up to their desktop with almost no effort for archival storage.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    8. Re:Yeah by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      As a teacher:

      You can't keep paper copies that you hand out to reuse. There are roughly 180 school days per year. If you have class sizes around 20, and 5 classes you'll be looking at something on the order of 100 sheets of paper a day. That's 18,000 sheets of paper to keep around.

      For a school, this might make sense. I generally found 80% or so of the pages I handed out reusable. The issues come, as others have noted, with being able to issue some sort of writing instrument which can write on this shit, while allowing it to be reused.

      Frankly, I think we'll be recycling paper for a long, long time in the future...

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    9. Re:Yeah by tftp · · Score: 1

      That's 18,000 sheets of paper to keep around.

      A big number. However if each sheet is 4 mil thick, a single stack of those 18,000 sheets will be only 72" (6 feet, or 1.8 meters) tall. You only need a small part of one broom closet to store those. Hardly a challenge; businesses routinely manage far more. Nowadays schools compete in size with megachurches, so I see no reason why a teacher can't be given enough storage space for his materials.

      For a school, this might make sense. I generally found 80% or so of the pages I handed out reusable. The issues come, as others have noted, with being able to issue some sort of writing instrument which can write on this shit, while allowing it to be reused.

      I hope that the pens won't be very expensive, you will have to distribute and collect them back. On the other hand, how can you motivate students to write on that paper if they must surrender it by the end of the class?

      It's obvious that my school days are too far in the past, and I have no idea how modern classes are taught. But back then we weren't given any paper materials; we used things called "books", and those were reusable (for several years.) Of course we had to be literate to read those :-)

    10. Re:Yeah by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      a single stack of those 18,000 sheets will be only 72" (6 feet, or 1.8 meters) tall.

      You totally underestimate the space allocated to teachers, combined with the ability to keep it out of the reach of students. Put that stack where grubby hands can reach it, and it will be horizontal in no time. Keeping stacks of papers that deep is lunacy. The best thing I ever did was to digitize everything. When a student needed something, I could get to it in a half-dozen clicks, and I could print it in the span of 10 seconds. Six generation photocopies are the spawn of the devil.

      I agree that the idea as a whole isn't all that workable. Books are a mainstay. But you can't have students assessed using books. Quizzes, homework, and supplemental material all comes on paper. If you could replace this with the stuff in question, it would be great. However, I doubt it will be possible before truly fantastic tablets are widely deployed.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    11. Re:Yeah by tftp · · Score: 1

      As I confessed before, I'm not familiar with modern ways of teaching - you are, so I just accept what you say about space, access and other things.

      However I still don't understand why students can't do their homework in their notebooks? You tell them what to do (refer to a book, or give an assignment) and then they do it on their paper. You check it out later, and once done they take their notebooks back. When I was in school we had no copiers there, and felt no need for any. I don't mean to debate the modern educational paradigm, of course :-) it just sounds weird to me. Next, maybe, you will tell me that modern students can't write in cursive with a semi-decent pen? :-)

      We did have some custom brochures printed by the university, when I got there, but those were in labs, and we used them when doing a lab assignment. Once done, those brochures go back to the storage, and most of them got there safely. Of course, university students are a little bit more organized than your high school crowd.

    12. Re:Yeah by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      I generally found 80% or so of the pages I handed out reusable.

      Ouch. Even at 99% reusable, this paper is more expensive (including super-expensive toner in small OEM cartridges) than regular paper. I suspect they're about an order of magnitude off in pricing - both for paper and printer - to make this economical. That's not to say it won't get cheaper in time...

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  11. Wow less CO2! by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 0, Troll

    The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Fucking assholes. The printer I'm getting ready to market kills less kittens.

    SO TAKE THAT!

    --
    "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    1. Re:Wow less CO2! by paiute · · Score: 1

      The printer I'm getting ready to market kills less kittens.

      Fewer. Fewer kittens use less kitty litter.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKlTAxTvKkY

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    2. Re:Wow less CO2! by kill-1 · · Score: 1

      "This video contains content from Sony Pictures, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

      You insensitive clod.

    3. Re:Wow less CO2! by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 1

      "This video contains content from Sony Pictures, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

      You insensitive clod.

      Strange, I can view both videos.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
    4. Re:Wow less CO2! by dominious · · Score: 1

      Did you read the whole sentence? You are probably from another country.

  12. ymmv for sure by wvmarle · · Score: 1

    I really wonder how much savings can be gotten here. Personally I'd estimate about 70% of my prints ends up in my archive: I only print out stuff that I want on paper for administrative reasons. For looking up later, or for tax/legal reasons.

    The 30% rest is mostly misprints, and of those about half ends up in my archives again: I always attach receipts from shops to a standard A4 size paper, number them, and in future I can always find them again.

    And what is still left over... well my little kid loves to draw, and I cut up a lot to A6 size for notes. Overall maybe 5% of my prints go to waste. Very little of those intentionally (as in: printed without intention to keep it).

    When I had to write reports (research related) I did print out drafts, but would not use this kind of paper because writing on it with a pen if it works would kill the reusability. And being able to add annotations and other notes to such a draft was part of the reason to make the print. The article mentions manuscripts (how about above mentioned manual notes?) and circulars (anyone that doesn't use e-mail for that, maybe combined with a few prints on a notice board?) don't seem too valid to me.

    Now I don't believe in the "paperless office" myth but a little prudence in printing goes a long way. This printer is a cool invention but honestly I can't really think of any large-scale applications where not printing is really not an option to save cost.

  13. What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the plastic sheets cost $3.30 each (if you buy 1000). A ream of paper costs about $5 if you buy just one. The likelihood of actually reusing the average sheet of this stuff 1000 times is negligible (10 times would be lucky in the average business environment), especially since I wouldn't be surprised if the sheet wouldn't be usable again if it ever got folded or creased. It seems like it doesn't make economic sense.

    I also don't see how this prevents CO2 emission. As I see it, paper causes CO2 to be removed from the atmosphere because trees are grown specifically to make paper. Paper is almost entirely composed of CO2 that was previously in the atmosphere. Plastic, on the other hand, is a petroleum product, and using more oil is definitely contributing to increased CO2 emissions. It doesn't really make environmental sense either.

    Now it is possible that there are a few cases that it might be more environmentally friendly if an organization somehow retools itself to make perfectly efficient use of this technology, but this would be difficult, unlikely, and it's definitely not going to be cost effective.

    I guess it's at least a neat idea.

    1. Re:What's the point? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      eBooks: print out your ebook onto something somewhat resembling an actual book, with real pages!

      Then, when you're done, feed the pages back into the printer and print another book. It might work if it had some kind of reversible binding process that wasn't too cumbersome.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:What's the point? by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make much sense to me. Regular books may run from 150 to 400 pages, so you're looking at least $1000 in "paper" costs. For that price, you could purchase two Kindle DXs, or an iRex. Both of these options save you the printing time and allow you to store and view multiple books; the iRex would also allow you to make annotations.

      Whereas, if you print on this special paper, you wouldn't be able to annotate or write on it, since you need to reuse the paper. That pretty much negates the advantage of printing something out in the first place.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    3. Re:What's the point? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      They are smaller pages, though, and you get four per sheet from the fold. They do, however, need to be ever so slightly different sizes and loaded into the machine in a precise order.

      So yeah, way more effort than it's worth, although I can see "reusable book" kits adding circa $300 to the cost of the already expensive printer.

      Easier to get a NooKindleRS-505, probably more convenient, too. Unless you're a curmudgeon who needs to have something to turn, but still wants to enjoy electronic distribution of books.

      Would take a *long* time to pay for itself at current book prices, though.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  14. That was easy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happens when you want to staple more than one sheet together. Most things worth printing take up more than one page, and those binder clips are always bulkier and more prone to falling off than a good old-fashioned staple. But hey, as long as we're "fixing" the "problem" of finding an alternative to a fully-renewable resource...

  15. Naysayers by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Despite the naysayers this sounds like a great addition to many offices. Lots of paper sent for recycling.

    In my case that means shredding it, turning it into paper briquettes and burning it in my woodburning stove. Like free heating from the old office waste... Actually come to think of it this is a shit product, forget the running costs, look at the capital expenditure!

     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Naysayers by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      And with the paper cost only being $1650 per ream, just think of the paper savings. The woman in charge of the copying machine can be in charge of giving out this new paper, and I bet everybody will get to use at least 4 sheets a week.

      No, it sounds like a novelty printer. The kind of thing that a V.P. gets and keeps outside his office.

    2. Re:Naysayers by grumbel · · Score: 1

      It kind of sounds interesting in theory, but I see two big issues. One is of course price, its way more expensive then just a laser printer and regular paper for a start. The other issue is simply user behavior, can you really train your users to behave well enough that a sheet survives anywhere near 1000 prints? Even 100 reprints sounds like a stretch, yet it is not enough to make it cheaper then paper. There are also use cases where its not clear how to handle them. What is if you want to mark something? What is when you want to bundle multiple pages? You can't just staple them. And so on.

      An eBook reader sounds like a much better and cheaper alternative.

  16. Re-usable paper = wear and tear by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

    How easy is it to re-use plastic sheets if they've been torn, stapled, folded, dog-eared, and so on? In the real world things experience wear and tear. In most printers I'm familiar with, the paper path is fairly sensitive to these kinds of irregularities, so unless they are using something more like the bypass tray, I don't think that this printer is going to be all that reliable or fun to deal with.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:Re-usable paper = wear and tear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PET is plastic film, and is much stiffer than paper at the same thickness. Looking at the video they are using a fairly stiff version. So mutilation might be less of an issue (very hard to crease), but once done the plastic film can't be smoothed out. I also noticed in the video the blacks were gray, so I think people would have to get use to gray and white printing. And as others have posted, how stable to temperatures are these documents? It sounds like they use temperature to "clean" and write on the paper. So at some temperature you would see fading? Or turning to all gray? In addition did you see how you were limited to sheet feeding from the top loading tray? Business printers have paper bins and the printers are mostly group printers in my company (they eliminated personal printers years ago). But I think this sheet feeding is required due to the stiffness of the PET plastic, basically it can't take any tight turns.

  17. False accounting? by martinux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "about 0.3 yen a sheet/number of times of rewriting."

    Correct me if I'm wrong but this cost assumes you don't need to keep a hard-copy, i.e., you're printing to said sheet 1000 times.

    In other words, if you never keep a copy and always reuse the sheets you'll save cash... The ratio of sheets you wish to keep to sheets you consider disposable has to be high; why else would you print something if not for long-term reference?

    Also, staples?

  18. Useful in a notice board by subanark · · Score: 1

    If you have a lot of notice boards (with the notices behind a window) you can use this printer to recycle old notices and put new ones up. These notices are not touched or punctured and are replaced frequently. If you only have a single notice board your probably better off just getting a flat screen monitor that displays the notices (probably cheaper given the cost).

    1. Re:Useful in a notice board by tftp · · Score: 1

      If you only have a single notice board your probably better off just getting a flat screen monitor that displays the notices (probably cheaper given the cost).

      You are ignoring the cost of energy for that flat screen monitor. Even if you nail a Kindle to the wall, it still is far more expensive than a sheet of paper.

      If you are in saving mode, the best way to maintain a notice board is through some sort of a Web page on your LAN. That is truly free. However a good deal of government papers must be "prominently displayed" in their paper form.

  19. Uh.... no. by mark-t · · Score: 1

    If you ask me, I think that epaper, eink, or some other bistable and non-emissive display technology will be the way that people in the future will manage documents that aren't intended for permanent posterity.

    And with the unit itself priced at over $5K, I really don't see this taking off anytime soon.

  20. Good idea by lokiomega · · Score: 1

    Honestly I love this idea. I could print up a whole PDF at a time, and read it like a book or manual when I need it; all the things that are too straining to read on a monitor for any lengthy period.

  21. I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by p51d007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    years, I've seen "green" ideas come and go, but still here we are 30 years later, and we are still putting ink or toner on paper. In the mid 80's, the "paperless" office idea was run up the flag pole, and friends of mine said I better look for another line of work. I just laughed. I said as long as we have a government, with regulations, we'll have paper. These idiots have to justify their jobs some how, and paper reports is how they do it. When the HIPPA laws came into being a few years ago, my work load INCREASED, just from the extra copying & printing those silly laws generated. For the past few years, I've tried until I'm blue in the face to talk people into going toward electronic filing & document storage, only to be told no, because "we've always done it with paper". It's a mind set...people don't like change and sometimes will push against change. In the early 80's, fax machines were taking off big time, but it was hard to convince people to give up messenger services and go with a fax machine. The fax was faster, cheaper than using a courier service, but, some would say "we've always had a courier". Now, I'm having the same problem getting people to give up a fax machine, because scan to e-mail is faster, and cheaper, but people say "we've always had a fax machine". People just don't brace technology sometimes. I gave up trying to change peoples minds. I show them the benefit, the cost savings, the time savings, and if they don't get it, I just let it go. Their money, not mine. Human nature......go figure.

    1. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In an enterprise environment, computer storage is pretty expensive. Sure a 1-TB consumer hard drive is $100 now, but when you have to pay someone to administer the data, go to server-quality parts, add in RAID for redundancy, add in cost of backups in media and administrative time, it adds up quickly. I'm not convinced that electronic document storage saves money over archiving of paper copies.

    2. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by DallasMay · · Score: 0, Redundant

      You're thinking wrong. Don't think office, think K-12 education. This could save school districts $MILLIONS every year.

      --
      I've given up on Slashdot's comment scores.
    3. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now, I'm having the same problem getting people to give up a fax machine, because scan to e-mail is faster, and cheaper, but people say "we've always had a fax machine".

      Sending a fax: (1) walk to fax machine, (2) put down document, (3) enter fax number, (4) press send, and done.

      Scan and send as e-mail: (1) walk to scanner (same as my fax, printer and copier so at least it has a sheet feeder, most stand-alone scanners don't), (2) put down document, (3) return to computer and open scan software, (4) scan document, (5) enter name and location to store scan file, (6) create new e-mail, (7) enter address, (8) enter subject and body, (9) add attachment, (10) remember where it was stored and how it was called this time, (11) press send, and done.

      Ymmv but for stuff printed already, faxing is for me the easier option! And fax is still more of an "it just works" type of tech than e-mail is, as strange as it may sound.

      Receiving faxes otoh I do in e-mail. And if necessary print them out.

      And finally businesses are still expected to have a fax. That part certainly is legacy, but also because fax is such an easy and simply to use technology. As easy as the telephone. And in ease of use that can not be beaten by e-mail.

    4. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by PyroMite · · Score: 2, Informative

      The procedure at my office would be:

      1. Put down document on printer/scanner combo device's page feeder
      2. Type the email address of recipient on the touch screen display on that device
      3. Push send.

      Benefits aside from speed and ease of use are that now the recipient has a digital copy without having to scan it themselves and in my experience the quality is pretty much always better than a fax machine.

      I know you said that for you faxing was the easier option, but I don't think gp was advocating the process for you, more for people who have a device built to handle that task. Just as I'm sure you wouldn't advocate fax as the best solution to someone who only had a hand scanner and a fax modem.

    5. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never actually used a semi-modern MFP have you? You can now configure them with an email address on your exchange/pop3 server and it'll send the email for you. Some will even 'spoof' the header with your name and email.
      1) place document in ADF. 2) Press the 'scan to email' button 3) enter the destination email address 4) press send

    6. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Fax machines live on because of security concerns. E-mail still isn't viewed as a secure medium by many businesses and government offices. Also just about everyone has a fax number and machine that you know someone is going to monitor as opposed to a spam filtered and ignored "main" e-mail address.

      Also do scanned and e-mailed signed documents carry the same legal weight as signed documents that were faxed? In theory they are exactly the same, but no one seems to view the e-mail method as legit.

    7. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      You are suggesting giving a $3.30 piece of paper to a student and expecting them to do the following;
              Not fold it;
              Not staple it;
              Not write on it and
              return it to you.
      If you get back 10% of the paper you hand out you will be lucky.

    8. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You portray the email scenario in the worst conditions, and the Fax scenario in the best:

      Like yours,a lot of faxes are both fax and scanner in one, these often have a scan button on the device, which will automaticly launch the scan software on your pc, even better, most scansoftware allows you to set a default location (eg: My Documents/Scans) and filename (eg: scan_%date%.jpg). So in effect, pressing the SCAN button on the device will just toss a digital jpeg version in the appropriate folder without having to touch the pc.

      Assuming you have a shortcut to the Scans directory on your desktop, it would only take 3 mouse clicks to open that folder, rightclick the appropriate scan, and select SEND BY EMAIL.

      Entering the email address doesnt take any more effort than entering the faxnumber, and the body&subject are optional. Oh, and in case you do choose to fill these out, they provide additional benefit to the receiver, such as being able to search their large inbox for this email many many months later and finding it within seconds.

    9. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by tftp · · Score: 1

      Let me rephrase it a bit:

      You are giving a child several sheets of paper, each worth TWO ice cream sandwiches, and you expect them to not "lose" any of them?

      That depends on availability of people who buy these sheets but, given the ingenuity of children and greed of adults and existence of eBay, this is guaranteed.

    10. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by tftp · · Score: 1

      Also do scanned and e-mailed signed documents carry the same legal weight as signed documents that were faxed?

      As far as I know, they do. Scanned images are much clearer and have better resolution, and the PDF with the scan can be digitally signed too.

      In fact your comment exposed another hole in this "reusable paper" plan - many papers are printed so that someone can sign them, stamp them, or both.

    11. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1)walk to scanner
      2)put down document
      3)enter email address (or more likely select from address book)
      4)press send, and done

      "expected to have a fax"? incoming number diverts to email - other end can do whatever the hell it likes, I still receive it in my inbox (or EDMS)

    12. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by selven · · Score: 1

      Or get the best of both worlds and use a fax to email service

    13. Re:I've been in the copier printer business for 30 by Dan+B. · · Score: 1

      Well I might work for the biggest player in the industry and have slightly tainted views of this, but this concept is not new

      Add to that, the 'non-consumable' paper is still $3.30 a piece, or at best, $0.0033 (0.3 of a cent). Since regular paper is 0.5 to 0.8c anyway, you would absolutely need to get your full usage out of your plastic to be saving money since the cost of a b/w print is less than a cent too.

      Paper + B/W print = 1.2c
      Thermal + plastic = $3.30
      Break even is therefore 275 uses per sheet... Good luck with that.

      --
      Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
  22. I wonder... by dsavi · · Score: 1

    I wonder how long the text/images last after being printed? Also, how about making notes on the paper? (Maybe a heat pen like silverpig suggested?)

    1. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if it will be possible to recover the previous information printed on the paper.

      This could be a security nightmare.

  23. True for the individual, not the office use case by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Vast numbers of trees are killed every year because office workers print out stuff for each other, then chuck them in the bin /recycle box.
     

    --
    Deleted
  24. Printing to eBook by owlstead · · Score: 1

    In any normal company, I would rather buy a large eBook reader (such as the iRex), that also has an option of annotating documents. In that way you don't have the weight of the initial expenses. And you have things like (rudimentary) search options and such. A long running tablet PC may also step into this niche. It's amazes me that many of these eBook readers don't come with a "printer driver". It would be a good way of converting documents to the right format and it would serve as a nice way of showing that the device can replace more paper than just books you buy in a store.

    1. Re:Printing to eBook by trapnest · · Score: 1

      A virtual printer driver would be nice, but can't most OSes print to PDF (I know it's built in on OS X.)? Can't these devices read PDF?

    2. Re:Printing to eBook by owlstead · · Score: 1

      There are of course pdf printer drivers, but the additional steps of copying would make most people print to paper instead. It would also not compress images to e.g. 16 bit grey level. But most of all people don't think of pdf when they want to view something when they are away from their pc.

    3. Re:Printing to eBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of these devices are not 8.5x11, which makes typical PDFs non-ideal.

  25. Okay, I've just found a use! by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I know, I know, I just dumped on this in a previous post - but I've found an application (at least for my office).

    I deal with architectural prints which are usually D or E size (thats ~A1/A0 I believe). Often we'll have architects send us 6 or 7 revisions of 10-20 sheets for a small project. It's nice to be able to see them "full size" and make minor marks, but when the next revision comes out that set gets recycled. We could easily reuse these sheets several times. Of course, we'd need some kind of heat pen (and we usually like to use red).

    Still, the cost would have to come down a lot. Since I can't send these prints out (without paying a fortune per sheet), it would have to be a purpose machine - and really only worth half of what a "real" printer would cost - maybe $2500 for a 36" wide print head. And the sheets would have to be priced noticeably favorable paper with break even somewhere this side of 20 re-printings (so about $0.25/square foot).

    Still, it's a real use for this kind of thing.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  26. Staples? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Oh come on.

    Paper clips.
    Bulldog clips.

     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Staples? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Ever taken a stack of plastic sheets that have been held together by a bulldog clip 200-300 times and try to feed it into a thermal transfer printer? Paperclips and bulldog clips don't make holes, but the pressure does frequently distort/warp the paper.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    2. Re:Staples? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they're plastic, not paper. Paper clips won't work.

  27. Better watch out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dunder Mifflin Paper Company better watch out!

    1. Re:Better watch out by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      It's too late. Don't you read "the wall"?

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
  28. Get a Kindle DX by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    It looks like paper, is lighter than a full stack of these sheets, and can be rewritten a many times as you want. For about 1/12 the cost of the printer alone.

    Did you notice that the printouts in the video looked a bit washed out, like it doesn't really get a good black?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  29. I have a system that really has no consumables! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    And that can be reprinted in less than 0.01 seconds. In color!
    It needs no. consumables. at. all!

    I’s called a display!

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:I have a system that really has no consumables! by tepples · · Score: 1

      A piece of reusable paper does not require continuous electric power just to view.

    2. Re:I have a system that really has no consumables! by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Neither does any bistable display technology.

  30. We've gone electronic by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That doesn't mean we don't generate paper. I go through 500-1000LF of 36" wide paper a month, plus probably 1500-2000 sheets of letter (we only have 4 employees). What we don't do is keep the paper. Everything either gets scanned and the paper recycled, or printed to PDF and never committed to dead tree form. The savings isn't in paper and printing - it's in storage. I was looking at having to buy storage space and filing cabinets (very expensive for large format drawings). At $1-$1.50 a sheet at the service house, it was cheaper to scan and recycle than to buy cabinets and store. Two years ago we dropped $15k on a large format scanner (well, it copies and prints, too). The result is everything we've ever designed it on the servers (and backed up in two places) and at our fingertips in less than a minute, and I'm not paying for a storage unit somewhere.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:We've gone electronic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds kinda silly to me. Why would you design something on the computer and then print it out only to scan it? Oh... you're still refusing to use design software for reason or another that likely doesn't matter except for fear of change. Got it.

    2. Re:We've gone electronic by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      I know, don't feed the trolls, but...

      We don't print them out and then scan them back in. We print to PDF, digitally sign the documents, then print them for clients. Since our clients are generally out constructing buildings, they don't have any useful means except paper to read the prints. And if you've ever seen a set of prints on a job site, you'd know that you don't want anything electronic there.

      As for reviewing or reading documents - find me an acrobat (or TIFF) reader that can show a 30x42 sheet full size and flip through pages - showing the entire thing - at 5-10 sheets per second. And software that allows you to "put a finger" in 3 - four pages so your can flip back and forth in less than 0.1 seconds. Or better yet, show a "split screen" with part of one page and part of another with no delay. Make sure I write notes on it in color. And make is cost less than $2000 with a 100% uptime. When you have that - get back to me.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  31. Paper has value by tjstork · · Score: 1

    The whole problem with this concept, is that it fails to realize is that, as seemingly insignificant a piece of paper is, it is a thing, and it does have value. This value is in its permanence. Good paper products will utterly outlive us, and that's why we use them.

    It is why some people insist on a paper audit trail when we vote.

    It is why we tend to like to get paper receipts and statements.

    It is like even a pointless award or certificate, but printed on nice paper, can mean a great deal emotionally.

    So, when you have re-usable paper, its like, you are giving back your receipt, your award, your audit trail, your gift, your thing. It creates this whole environment where you are in the office and the one thing you used to be able to get, a piece of paper from the printer, you now have to give back. It's honestly smacks of so much corporate money grubbing greed that you "hey, that good conduct award I printed... well, I need that back so I can re-use the paper...", well, you have to give your life record back to these people as well?

    What a terrible invention, and a what terrible people that we have become to even think that such a thing should be invented.

    --
    This is my sig.
  32. Only useful for ebooks by iCantSpell · · Score: 1

    This printer is only good if your printing out e-books. You could probably end this e-book reader revolution crap with this technology. Your not going to run out of ink and once your finished with a book, you can just go to amazon and pay $9 and get to printing your new book.

  33. To anyone who thinks this is dumb. by DallasMay · · Score: 1

    This could save millions of dollars in education alone. I used to tach a science class and would make hundreds of copies every day. This could save schools millions.

    --
    I've given up on Slashdot's comment scores.
    1. Re:To anyone who thinks this is dumb. by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      So the students will simply return the sheets?

  34. The 1980's called. by patjhal · · Score: 1

    They want their printer back.

  35. Dirt/coffee/doodles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    would seem to put a crimp in the 1,000x reuse, at least at my compnay....
    if you go to the web site, in fractured engish ( http://www.sanwa-newtec.co.jp/english/products/rp_srp_3101_e.html ) we find the following, Quote

      "When the dirt of the sheet is awful, washing with the special sheet cleaner and a regular cleaning in the printer are necessary."

    this suggests that the eco ness is a bit less then meets the eye

  36. Great for the International Space Station by cutecub · · Score: 1

    ... or any other isolated work environment, like a submarine, military base, etc.

    But as soon as those plastic sheets start making it home in people's brief-cases and notepads, the cost of operation starts to creep up.

    Its an interesting niche product that solves one problem ( consumables ) at the expense of creating another problem ( proprietary, expensive print substrate ).

    -S

  37. stupid execs by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2, Informative

    All it takes is for one management-type to keep a 100-page report on her shelf to blow your entire savings for the year.

    1. Re:stupid execs by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Only if she tosses it into the trash afterwards. If it gets reused a few years down the line, it does nothing to your savings other than postpone it for that length of time. If you're including your savings on paper in your quarterly financial reporting, this might be an issue. But most likely the cost gets recovered at some point.

      That said, I think there are plenty of more likely places to look for savings to be lost other than just storing the printed copies. Staples, folds, coffee rings, and "grabbed the closest thing to write on with a ballpoint pen" I think would be far more common and truly wasteful.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  38. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by CapOblivious2010 · · Score: 1

    Vast numbers of trees are PLANTED every year because office workers print out stuff for each other, then chuck them in the bin /recycle box.

    There, fixed that for you.

    Come on, people: recycling is great and all, but it's not like trees are an endangered species... They're like Doritos: print all you want, we'll plant more! Trying to "save trees" by not using paper is like trying to "save corn" by not eating as much! If you actually reduce the consumption, the producers reduce the plantings and we end up right where we started.

    Besides, throwing away paper REDUCES your carbon footprint: trees absorb carbon from the air, it finds its way into paper, which we put at the bottom of the landful, thereby "sequestering" the carbon more or less indefinitely.

  39. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me help:

    Innumerable living, growing tree-friends are slaughtered every single year because office workers print on tree-organs for each other, and then cast aside the remains after they've had their way with it.

  40. Ridiculously high cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The video presentation mentions that a single sheet of this so called "paper" costs 300 yen, which is around 2.5 euros. I can buy packs of 500 sheets of paper for that price and if I go for the really cheap, disposable kind then it becomes even cheaper than that. Moreover, regular paper has plenty of exotic uses such as writing on it with a pencil and/or pen. Will you do that on a 2.5 euro A4 sheet of paper?

  41. BS by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    I would say that "A4-sized sheets of PET plastic" count as consumables. This is a marketing scam.

  42. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Eternauta3k · · Score: 1

    I believe it has to do with cutting down native forest (lots of biodiversity) and replacing it with plantations for making paper

    --
    Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
  43. Do the math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's do the math and crunch the numbers. I'm going to assume "Best Case Scenarios" because that's what marketing always does. In reality, we know that's rarely the case. I just grabbed quick prices off the web, without doing a lot of price comparison. These calculations assume no discounts.

    Dead Tree cost:
    Laser printer: $200
    2500 sheets of paper @ $21.59 x 400 (1 million sheets): $8636
    Total: $8836

    Renewable cost:
    RP-3100 Printer: $5600
    1000 sheets (up to 1000 uses each) (1 million sheets): $3300
    Total: $8900

    While the setup costs are high for the "green" printer, over time you can save money if you do a LOT of non-permanent printing. Also, be sure not to damage your $33/sheet paper.

    1. Re:Do the math by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure your "best case" use cases are really accurate... first, I'm not sure I've ever seen a printer with a 1M page lifespan. I understand that you chose that number because that's the claimed paper-equivalent in one pack of the PET, but in reality, a lot of that investment will probably be wasted. And you neglected to include toner cost in your laser printer case.

    2. Re:Do the math by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I've seen plenty of printers with a 1M impression lifespan, but you're not going to buy them for $200.

      I used to implement printrooms with digital printers producing several million impressions per month (we used to joke they needed to do a minimum of 1 million just to keep the engines running smoothly) but they are hundreds of thousands of dollars per device not including the operating costs.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  44. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    True, we're not going to run out of trees. The issue is more about the cost (both monetary and energy-wise) to produce the paper from the trees.

    So, to me, the real question is: is one of these re-usable plastic sheets more efficient (both cost-wise and energy-wise) to produce than 1000 sheets of paper AND offsets the cost of purchasing and maintaining two types of printers (you'll undoubtedly still need traditional laser printers for some applications) AND the additional electricity to power both of them AND the additional trouble of keeping track of all the reusable paper?

    Honestly, this strikes me as a very stop-gap solution anyhow. It seems like a temporary bridge at best between now and the time when we have ubiquitous and inexpensive access to digital pads that can completely replace printed paper altogether.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  45. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

    In the vast majority of cases paper comes from trees from tree farms that have existed for generations. Why? Because land is not cheap. It's more economical to reuse land and plant new trees then it is to cut down old forests and plant new trees. The tail of the disappearing forest is a modern myth.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  46. You are no better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Each time you breath in you collect millions of bacteria-buddies, many of these do not survive. Bacteria buddy murderer.

    1. Re:You are no better by shentino · · Score: 1

      So does your immune system.

      If we did NOT kill germs, THEY would kill US.

  47. And they still would be by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I've got a boss who prints crap out all the time. Just random junk. Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me. And those random bits of junk get thrown away pretty quickly.

    What makes you think that will also not happen a lot with these re-usable sheets?

    That's the biggest problem I see, far too many people will treat them like paper and just get rid of them anyway. It might (might) work if you mandated that all printing only be done on this paper, but honestly the overhead of obeying the mandate and as noted the constant loss anyway from printed stuff that is filed means that you have just introduced a lot of time wasting bother into your organization and a lot more expense for printing supplies.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:And they still would be by arth1 · · Score: 1

      That's the biggest problem I see, far too many people will treat them like paper and just get rid of them anyway.

      The great benefit of paper is that you can treat it as a cheap commodity. You don't think twice about tacking it to the wall, folding it, jotting down a phone number, striking out a sentence, use highlighter, mail it out of the company, or even use it as a coaster.

      When you have to start treating foolscap as if it were the holy host, it loses the versatility and most of the usefulness. Never mind that the extra hassle (sort reusable paper and bring it back to the printer, oh and print out an extra copy on a different printer if you want to mail it to someone) may be enough in itself to get people to continue using plain old paper.

      As for the price, it's just ridiculous. Granted that green can be slightly more expensive, but when you can buy a whole ream of old-fashioned paper for the price of two reusable sheets, it's not going to be cost-effective.

      Finally, reusable 1,000 times simply isn't true -- if lucky, half the paper will be recycled, and half of that will come back for a second recycling. For 1,000 sheets, you're talking 10 uses. That's 30 cents per print, not counting electricity or printer maintenance. Nor productivity loss.

      Yes, by all means, go green and recycle. Give each employee two rubbish bins -- one for paper, and one for everything else. That's recycling that actually works, which I bet you guineas for sweets that this won't.

    2. Re:And they still would be by netsharc · · Score: 1

      Also, presumably people can't jot down their notes or use a highlighter (the real world kind) on this fancy paper, because the printer wouldn't be able to erase them?

      Hmm, maybe they can invent a heat-pen.. and use different temperatures for different pixels (of differing colors). That would be a neat, although useless, invention.

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
  48. Never seen so many people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      shit on a new idea that has been implemented.
    It is a great fucking idea, it is in the very essence a step in the right direction, from which I hope new, viable technology will sprung from. You, who fucking criticize this shit, shame on you! Do you think green clean technology develops in the vacuum and in perfect way?

      I applaud the company for putting their money where their mouth is unlike all of u fucking naysers who complain and bitch because it is not perfect.

      I am very happy to see that technology coming out! Thank you.

  49. the bean-counter math does not work out by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The math just does not work out.

    At $5,600 for the printer, just the interest alone is $300 a year. For that you can buy 100,000 sheets of copy paper a year. If you expect the printer to last 5 years, that's another $1,100 that could go towards buying almost 400,000 sheets of paper.

    And I doubt if the plastic sheets can be reused more than 10 times in a typical office situation. They're going to get wrinkled, bent, curled, and soiled after just ten cycles. Most printers balk at feeding paper that is even slightly curled. Let's assume 10 uses is a practical limit. So this 33 cent sheet of plastic is now costing you 3 cents a page, ten times more than the equivalent piece of paper.

    Now a good deal.

    1. Re:the bean-counter math does not work out by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > The math just does not work out.

      Math doesn't matter. Only "greenness" counts.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:the bean-counter math does not work out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you get 5.35% APY interest?

  50. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you would buy them a 6 grand printer to do this on ?
    They need to be re-trained, don't print any LOLcats out !

  51. How well does the printout erase? by Drethon · · Score: 1

    If it is at all possible to recover previously printed documents this could be a problem, otherwise I could see niche markets.

  52. 1970's by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    We had thermal printers in the seventies. They suck.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  53. Are Brains Engaged Today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't believe all the dumb responses I've seen to this story (no offense to parent).

    Every office I've ever worked in could use these printers. See, humans have these things called "brains", and they can use them to discriminate between "casual, print then reuse paper" documents, and those that need to be retained for a long time, marked up, stapled, sent out of the office, etc. If you have a color printer and a black and white printer in your office, and you're not making the equivalent judgments today, you're pretty unevolved.

    Print on the "real paper" printer for some documents, use your "brain" to decide when to print on reusable plastic sheets. It's not that hard. The hostility to this product that I've seen in posts indicates the posters have other agendas. Which would probably be best printed on this recyclable paper.

    1. Re:Are Brains Engaged Today? by ppanon · · Score: 1

      The hostility to this product that I've seen in posts indicates the posters have other agendas.

      It's the usual agenda of course. Change is bad, and change that requires me to think and make a decision on a regular basis is worse.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    2. Re:Are Brains Engaged Today? by luther349 · · Score: 0

      your not accounting the fact office papers are never kept in perfect condition there bent folded stuff spilled on them. you just lost 3$ a sheet. and the stuff you do keep gets filed and never saw again. yes theirs a few uses for them like in meetings or the junk they do print and toss. but point 1 still applys. its a good idea but the cost for the paper has to come way down first so when you do lose them the cost isnt overwhelming the potential savings. .

    3. Re:Are Brains Engaged Today? by netsharc · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously asking office workers of the USA to use their brains? I think you'll hear from their union, that was never in their contract!

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
  54. Cost by jklovanc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I keep having to do math to debunk so many reports. The page that uses .3 yen as the sheet cost does not take into account sheets that are not returned. They are calculating it as if it is a closed system where every sheet print will be returned in re-printable condition. Pages can be lost, damaged , written on, or stored and never returned. The true cost of using these sheets is as follows;

    ((purchase cost) + (replacement cost of non returned sheets))/cycle size

    Replacement cost is the cost to replace each failed sheet (damaged or not returned) over the life of one page as follows;
    (purchase cost * failure rate * cycle size)

    Therefore with a purchase cost of 300yen, a failure rate of 10% (I am being generous) and a cycle of 1000 the cost per printing would be;

    (300 +(300*.1*1000))/1000 = 30yen.

    Even with the questionable power costs added that would be almost 4 times as expensive as plain paper.

    Bump that up to a 30% failure and you get a cost of 91 yen/printing and 11x the cost of plain paper. To the "no shedding costs" comments; there is still a cost to erase the pages before they are returned to the printer for recycling.

    They also do not factor the cost of collecting, sorting and cleaning the returned pages .

    Another aspect not touched on is print speed. According to the specifications the printer takes 3 to 6 seconds per page to print. I am talking about the commercial printers not the desktop version. Yeah I am going to wait ten minutes to print 100 pages. That is very poor throughput.

    1. Re:Cost by BlacKat · · Score: 1

      The printer also erases the pages... so no actual requirement to "clean" the pages, just feed them in and it erases and writes the new info onto the page.

      Not saying I think this is a great idea for home use, but maybe some businesses could use it.

      However, unless they've figured out how to make this special paper not turn black if placed on or near a heat source, these pages will be somewhat useless.

    2. Re:Cost by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Cleaning as in dirt, spills, erasable markers etc. You would not want to waste $3.30 just because of a little coffee. The website says they can be washed with water then dried before re-use. There are also documents that are confidential that should be erased before putting back into the sheet pile.

    3. Re:Cost by Tempete · · Score: 0

      You forgot a pretty significant cost: ink.

  55. That's right and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If "I'm a moron" coworker decides that shredding sensitive material is the ONLY way to go....

    1. Re:That's right and... by ppanon · · Score: 1

      How do you know they wouldn't be right? If you have to do 7 passes to securely erase magnetic data, maybe you'll need to do multiple passes with random bitmaps to securely erase these sheets. If enough erase passes are needed, then you might be decreasing the re-usability of these sheets to the point where they're no longer cost effective.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    2. Re:That's right and... by luther349 · · Score: 0

      from the video the old stuff was compliantly gone when they printed over it. heat printing is old tech the paper you can reuse is new.

  56. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While what you say about carbon sequestration is true, it isn't proof that throwing away paper results in a net reduction in carbon footprint. Planting, harvesting, transporting, and processing trees is not free. I don't know either way, but it could be that recycling old paper takes less energy ("carbon footprint") than producing new paper.

  57. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention the marginal crop land (esp. in the SE) that is planted into Sou. Yellow Pine. 15 year rotation on paperwood.

  58. False rejection of your e-mailed document by tepples · · Score: 1

    5) have it rejected because the subject and body look spammy

    The junk e-mail laws are much weaker than the junk fax laws. So people have to set their junk rejection filter higher.

  59. Not a replacement. by Mr0bvious · · Score: 1

    Admittedly I did not RTFA, but I'd assume that you can't just write, scribble, etc on these...

    The majority of short life printouts that I use at work end up with notes, amendments and changes scribbled on them. It's a good system.

    Unless I can do this on this new medium, I can't see it being useful in our offices.

    --
    Never happened. True story.
    1. Re:Not a replacement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? It's a sheet of PET, you know... the same plastic used for OHP transparencies, remember non-permanent pens?

  60. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by afidel · · Score: 1

    There's almost no virigin forest being harvested in NA or Europe, they've all been either chopped down hundreds of years ago or protected in national parks and forests. Even if there were a virgin forest available for harvest it would almost surely be used for lumber instead of paper because of the superior beauty of old growth wood.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  61. Lookin silly? by VirginMary · · Score: 1

    You know what makes one look silly, too? Writing "their" when it should be "there"!

    --
    When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
    1. Re:Lookin silly? by SlothDead · · Score: 1

      Here, here!

  62. reusing the cellulose by zogger · · Score: 1

    How do you make your paper briquettes? Water, then a compactor, or what?

    I make some woodstove "logs" from old cardboard boxes that I get from glanage, scrounging produce and fruits, etc.. Get the boxes slightly wet (by leaving them out in the rain, lol), then they are really easy to roll up tight, then they get wrapped with used and now recycled bailing twine (that I cut off of big round bales), then let dry again. I use that for kindling, or to get a fast heat boost in the morning when there are just some coals left. TIA.

  63. Too bad Enron ain't around anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would have been a volume customer!

  64. Japanese Businesses Waste a Lot of Paper by kklein · · Score: 1

    I've lived over here in Japan for the better part of 10 years, and I can totally see how this could make a difference. Every meeting I go to has a paper agenda handed out at the door, which is promptly thrown away as soon as I'm back to my office. My pigeonhole fills up every few days with--I'm not kidding--paper versions of the emails I've gotten.

    Culturally, Japan is a lot more hands-on than the US. A lot of paperwork is still done by hand and most purchases are done with cash. Paper, actually, is a sacred object in Shinto, the indigenous religion of Japan. It's dangerous to read too much into that, but suffice it to say that Japan likes paper.

    This might really be useful over here, but I'm curious about build quality. Sanwa is a pretty minor computer company, mostly making cheap peripherals. Crummy generic Chinese VOIP headsets, etc...

    1. Re:Japanese Businesses Waste a Lot of Paper by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      But they make very good arcade joysticks and buttons (if it's the same Sanwa).

    2. Re:Japanese Businesses Waste a Lot of Paper by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I though the Japanese were all about making purchases with their cell phones?

    3. Re:Japanese Businesses Waste a Lot of Paper by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a variant on a printer Xerox were working on a few years back. Refer to entry on UV printers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_(computing)#Inkless_printers).

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  65. Wrong Price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The guy in the video said hyakugojuman en, which is 1,500,000 yen. or about $16,666.66 USD

  66. Is it just me or is this pretty old hat? by FishTankX · · Score: 1

    Japan has had this tech since about 2006. Here is a Toshiba printer that uses the exact same technology. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6174052.stm

  67. Flimsiplast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the Star Wars Expanded Universe, these things were called flimsies.

  68. forms? by hitmark · · Score: 1

    what i usually print out these days are forms of some kind. this sounds like the heat print paper found in faxes and similar, and those are usually hell to write on.

    --
    comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  69. PDF by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    I had the same issue with technicians. I switched to all PDF's for service manuals etc years ago, but had a hard time to get the rest of the service staff to do the same. Same tired old argument...but...but...but...I can put notes in the paper manuals. Well, you can put notes in the PDF ones also. Plus, It is a heck of a lot easier to find something in a PDF, doing a search, rather than thumbing through a paper manual. My laptop that I carry, I have the drive mirrored to another drive I carry with me, updated weekly, and another drive at the shop mirrored. If the drive crashes during the day, it's a simple manor of popping it out and replacing it with the backup drive. I wouldn't go back to a paper manual for anything. I'm a certified instructor, and everything I teach with, save for the paper tests at the end of the course, is all electronic.

  70. Security by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    I remember the same argument back in the early 90's. Until the dopes in congress catch up to the technology, there will be those who say email isn't "secure" (ours have secure email features). Congress had to pass another law to placate the lawyers so a signed and returned fax document was considered legal. Heck, I bet 90% of the dopes in congress can't even send a fax, without having 3,450 members of their staff to help out LOL.

  71. $3K for 1000 sheets of paper by bell.colin · · Score: 1

    For about $900-1200 (or more, but under 3K) i could buy a full convertible Tablet PC with 80GB+ of storage, way more than a 1000 sheets of paper and not need for $5K printer.

    Just another cool, but useless very expensive tech fad of the week to show off with (almost just like the Tablet PCs, but they are least usefull in other ways)

  72. good idea but no by luther349 · · Score: 0

    the paper cost is just to high. thers no saving if anything the printer would be more expensive to run. they dont account for damaged or lost sheets. in the real world people don't keep there paper near and clean. and most stuff is not printed then tossed there normally given away to whoever needs it. conserding ink b;lack isn't that expensive. genrely 5 bucks and it can handel 1000 sheets before needing replacement on a quality printer. and toner can handel alot more prints before nedding replacment. of course toner does cost a good amount. color ink is still expensive and well this does not do color.

  73. Re:True for the individual, not the office use cas by luther349 · · Score: 0

    yea and plastic is so much better for the environment the something reusable like paper. paper can be recycled and we can always grow more. and no forest are cut down as its been said they are all protected. its like those tree huggers protesting loggers but forgetting they grew those trees themselves just for logging.

  74. Replace when broken by tepples · · Score: 1

    What kind of bistable display "can be reprinted in less than 0.01 seconds", as Hurricane78 mentioned? Last time i checked, e-paper displays needed over twenty times that long to repaint, which is why they aren't so useful for video. Sure, this printer probably takes even longer, but more importantly: Even if you weaken it to "can be reprinted in seconds", a $3 piece of paper is a lot cheaper to replace when broken than a $300 reading device.

    1. Re:Replace when broken by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Your entire post said, "A piece of reusable paper does not require continuous electric power just to view." Thus, I had thought it should be clear that it was that comment alone to which I was referring, not issues about update time.

      However, to address the issue of printing speed, the printer in the article doesn't print out pages in a hundredth of a second either (in fact, epaper can update far faster than this printer appears to print, and some epaper displays _can_ do color) so even there, it seems appropriate to mention such displays as an alternative to this device. Further, printers are a mechanical device, where electronic paper does not have any moving parts at all, so its theoretical upper limit display rate is going to be orders of magnitude faster than printing. I figure we'll have bistable displays capable of updating fast enough to even do full motion video only a few years from now.

  75. Re:Lookin' silly? by VirginMary · · Score: 1
    --
    When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
  76. What do they mean no "consumaables"?!? by ivi · · Score: 1

    From the prices, alone, I'd say this printer is a bu consumer of... cash... :-/

  77. Re:Lookin' silly? by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

    Whoosh!

  78. Mod parent up! by danielsfca2 · · Score: 1

    I have no problem reading on my 1600x1200 dvi monitor. I also maintain a no-paper desk. Any documents delivered to me as paper are scanned and recycled. Any that I don't need are immediately recycled. Before I started this practice my desk was always a mess. Now it's always great.

    Paper sucks...