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Nokia, Intel Merge Maemo, Moblin Into MeeGo

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the there-can-be-only-one dept.

AVee writes "Intel and Nokia just announced a new project called MeeGo. MeeGo is supposed to be the result of merging Maemo and Moblin, bringing together the best pieces of those (already quite similar platforms). Interestingly this means that Intel will be sponsoring a mobile Linux distro which will run on ARM."

34 of 162 comments (clear)

  1. Eh? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Informative

    All Linux distros can potentially run on ARM ...

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    1. Re:Eh? by goldaryn · · Score: 4, Funny

      All Linux distros can potentially run on ARM ...

      All Windows distros can potentially run

    2. Re:Re:Eh? by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2, Informative

      Linux has already been ported to ARM, Windows has not.

      Windows Mobile/WinCE/etc. have all been ported to ARM, which Microsoft provides support for.

      In fact, you even get the source code so that you can port it to the architecture of your choice; but then you have to support it yourself. That's the catch.

      Linux, OTOH, is supported on dozens of processor architectures from the ARM to the Itanium to the Cell, whether you want an 8-bit processor or 256-bit processor. Windows can't do that.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  2. Re:Quit similar? by dsavi · · Score: 2, Informative

    That is why you tag the story with "typoinsummary".

  3. Funny names by goldaryn · · Score: 5, Funny

    MeeGo is supposed to be the result of merging Maemo and Moblin

    Who named these platforms, a Lord of the Rings fan with a speech impediment?

    1. Re:Funny names by Rexdude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More like a Mi-Go

      --
      "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
    2. Re:Funny names by EvilNTUser · · Score: 4, Funny

      A stupid name is a prerequisite for being a successful FOSS product. Nokia and Intel have clearly done their homework.

      Also indicating huge potential, MeeGo has already ignited a flamewar between RPM and DEB supporters. Welcome to the community!

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    3. Re:Funny names by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, I could tell you the story behind Moblin, but IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    4. Re:Funny names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maemo is a mythical figure/creature in Finnish folklore. The name has been made readable for most of western world by ditching the double a.

  4. Next version of the n900? by dsavi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This will make the next version of the Nokia internet tablet series very interesting indeed, I think. Will this be a new Android, running on both netbooks and higher-end smartphones? Anyway, I like the idea.

    1. Re:Next version of the n900? by r_jensen11 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meego's website lists netbooks, pocketables, in-vehicle, connected TV and Media Phone, so it looks like they're looking at a much broader population than Android is

    2. Re:Next version of the n900? by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Informative

      How so? Android is already running in most of those devices (check this wikipedia page on that topic, tablets, netbooks, ebook readers and more is listed there, and there is plenty of different devices announced for a maybe close future).

  5. Name? by Dartz-IRL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Meego?

    The mobile OS from Yuggoth

    --
    So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
    1. Re:Name? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still better than the other way around:

      Maggot.
      The mobile OS from Yugo. ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  6. Re:Does it run Jar(Jar) files by goldaryn · · Score: 2, Funny

    For JarJar files you'll need the Meesa

  7. Re:Package management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Q Will MeeGo use .rpm or .deb as its packaging system?
    A: MeeGo will use the .rpm format

    http://meego.com/about/faq

    Also Quim Gil of Maemo stated that it will officially support both GTK+ and Qt (original plan for Maemo 6 was to officially support only Qt and deliver GTK+ via community supported packages)
    http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527251&postcount=87

  8. Re:Package management by goldaryn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Also Quim Gil of Maemo stated that

    Quim Gil of Maemo? Even Tolkien would have rejected that name as too preposterous

  9. Re:Package management by EvilIdler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    RPM, says Intel. Can't find a link, but there is much gnashing of teeth over that at work here. I would prefer to keep the repository apt, at the very least. But apt+dpkg would be lovely.

  10. No by Carewolf · · Score: 4, Funny

    The real important question: What package management system will it use?

    No that's not it.

    1. Re:No by thorsen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Please mod that guy up or the parent down. Package management is a completely irrelevant problem.

      These are actually important questions:

      How long will it take them to cut GTK support?

      What does this mean for Nokias Qt support? Many people in the Qt community have been worried that they would cut back on the desktop support in favour of the mobile parts.

      Intel controlling a Linux distro? How does this fit into the larger picture? How does this affect the possibility of it getting into the phones from, say, Motorola?

      Package management is irrelevant because it is not a general purpose system. So packages of software built for this won't be installed on Debian anyway - why worry about it?

      Bo Thorsen.

    2. Re:No by Late+Adopter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe to the average nerd on /., but not to anyone who understands Maemo at all.

      Maemo was Debian-based in the same way that Microsoft is standards-based: buried at some pointless level and entirely irrelevant to users and developers alike. The API and SDK are of far greater consequence.

    3. Re:No by glasserc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking as a nerd on /., I have to say that whether Maemo itself is Debian-based is not as important as it seems. The Maemo repo isn't really compatible with the "true" Debian repos; if you want to apt-get install your pretty little heart out, what you do is install the package "easy-deb-chroot". In other words: getting access to the Debian software catalogue is orthogonal to the packaging system Maemo apps use. I hope that MeeGo still offers an easy-deb-chroot package, but it's fine if it's packaged as an RPM :)

      Ethan

  11. Re:Package management by diegocg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's really a problem? I mean, package wars are so 1999. I recently switched to a RPM based distro after 9 years using and loving APT. And while there're differences (some advantages, some disadvantages), these days they're pretty much the same thing. I'm using KDE 4.4 from Fedora rawhide in my Fedora 13 base system, just as I would have done in Ubuntu. There're things far more important in this merge than using RPM instead of DEB. Like, for example, focusing on QT instead of Clutter.

  12. Gtk RIP? by perrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Both Maemo and Moblin started off Gtk-based, using the Clutter toolkit on top of Gtk. Now both have switched over to Qt. Are there any other serious users of Clutter left?

    I hear lots of projects starting with or switching to Qt these days, and none that switch to or start with Gtk. Having programmed in both Gtk and Qt, I have to say I understand why. Qt is hands down the better and more elegant toolkit, despite my preference for C over C++. Qt also makes it easier than Gtk to port between Linux, Mac and Windows. Gtk on the other hand is stuck with a horrible dependency hell that prevents using it for anything serious on non-Linux platforms.

    I think the way forward for Linux on the desktop is to standardize on one GUI toolkit, and there is no doubt that this toolkit would have to be Qt. It is a bit sad, because I always like Gnome better than KDE, and I see no easy way for Gnome to convert over to Qt.

    1. Re:Gtk RIP? by SpinyNorman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It seems that functionally Clutter has been superceded by advances in Qt.. Qt supports OpenGL/ES/VG backends and has a new "declarative UI" for designing animated and custom UIs. In fact since the Nokia aquisition Qt seems to have all but forgotten about the desktop and most new features are squarely aimed at implementing fluid custom iPhone-like interfaces on smartphone/netbook targets.

    2. Re:Gtk RIP? by segedunum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was playing out with Qt and Qt Creator recently and the framework is very accessible and cross-platform, while GTK+ is somewhat more of a hassle to port.

      Unfortunately, GTK is a huge panopoly of multiple dependencies that simply haven't got easier to package up over the years, and in many ways have got worse. It's cross-platform support is also pretty terrible as a result, especially when it comes to Windows and Mac but for embedded devices I would imagine the pain and maintenance would be worse. Sad, but true unfortunately.

      I want a desktop that works on installation, not one where I have to tweak around for two weeks to get it do something. Also the options that pop up everywhere, the atrocious control panel and several other things are just horrible.

      I just wonder why people post third, fourth or fifth hand 'information' from people who know very little as fact. That's like saying you can't do anything with Windows for two weeks because you have to install Office, a DVD player and a dozen other things............and you don't have to do those things with your average Linux distribution these days, apart from the DVD stuff, but there are ways and means. No one has any trouble sitting down to a KDE desktop and starting work. Perhaps you can enlighten us all?

      Also when tweaked right (with some compiz magic) I can improve my application interaction productivity very much (application switching mapping to mouse, multiple desktop control with mouse, etc.) that are just not there in an evident way in KDE.

      Well, Kwin provides a lot of options for stuff like that, but..........what I find amusing is that you're having a go at KDE because you think it takes you two weeks to configure things and you're then switching the whole thing around in the very next paragraph because KDE doesn't provide the configuration you want? Uh huh.

      Never mind the fact that it still looks ugly and very clumsy.

      Uh, huh. Alas, repeating something does not make it true I'm afraid. If you put KDE nest to Gnome, and next to the serious proprietary competitors like Vista, 7 and OS X, then you can only see one open source desktop competitor on the ugliness front. You might find things ugly as do others, but the aesthetics of desktop environments are moving on regardless.

    3. Re:Gtk RIP? by jmorris42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Both Maemo and Moblin started off Gtk-based, using the Clutter toolkit on top of Gtk.

      You would have a point had it been done for technical reasons. And had you known what you were going on about. Maemo was never based on clutter, it predated clutter by several years and the hardware it ships on lacks 3d acceleration. This is corporate politics at work. Maemo is pretty much dead if you ask me, managed into oblivion. Moblin was already a dead horse, being tied too closely to both the x86 anchor and being a research toy OS watching Android come storming onto the scene sucking all the PR buzz up.

      As for Maemo, look how many flag days there have already been and how many more are planned. The current shipping product is GTK based and everyone had already been warned of a rip and replace of most of the guts to go to Qt for the next version. Why? Because Nokia went out and bought Trolltech thats why, and ya gotta eat the house brand of dogfood. Now before they can even ship a beta more corporate politics happen and the developers are going to get a much more crap they didn't ask for dumped into their laps and told to integrate it.

      So now there are two possibilities, either delay shipping the QT rewrite to merge all of the Intel tech and piss off everyone who, in anticipation of this switch was readying new code of their own, or worse ship the Qt port they had planned and announce yet again that it is a one release OS that is going to have most of it's innards ripped and replaced yet again for the next one. Who in their right mind is going to continue sinking resources into following this train wreck over the cliff? Perhaps Nokia can afford the developer resources to keep rewriting their OS for every release, but most 3rd party developers just want to release an app and get onto the next one or adding cool new features for a new version, not just keep rewriting and debugging the same one for an ever changing OS.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
  13. Re:Package management by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

    What's the odds there'll be a fork within the next month or so?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  14. Do not say dependency hell... by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...when it's simple negligence. While package maintainers take care of Gtk for linux, Gtk for windows is in ruins.

    There's no installer on official gtk page. C'mon guys, it's 2010, and you still package it in zip archives?

    Ok, there is an installer on SF, but wait, there's no Glade support in there!

    Oh, here is Glade, but oh, it's shipping with its own Gtk bundle, which is outdated and incompatible with the first one.

    Ok, let's install the major Gtk app, GIMP... Wait, I already have two gtk bundles installed, I don't need another one! What do you mean, "no choice"?

    Hmmm, let's try this Deluge app... At last, I can skip Gtk installation and use one of the previously installed. Hey, why did it crash?

    F**k it, even .NET is better.

  15. Re:There can only be one! by alexandre · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, iPhone is doomed to stay as proprietary garbage, as is WinMo 7.
    Now what's left: Android, Meego, Palm, ...

    Those 3 could probably work together... Maybe Android is too full of itself and Samsung should join Meego and drop Bada too.

    The question for all these is who control the app store, and i think meego allows all of them to control their own while still staying compatible.
    This also means open access to an open market of different store for consumers if the platform is to stay open and thus attract people.

    Are we seeing the computer software industry transform into a "Label" that distributes apps?
    I can't understand this model in a world where everyone can setup their own distribution channel for 20$.
    It's only a winning move if you can sell hardware and the only way to compete against the über monopolistic Apple model is this.

    So the cycle of proprietary / FOSS reaction goes on ...

  16. Good move by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I was recently worried they'd both wither on the vine trying to compete against Android and filling almost exactly the same space. Thus I was thinking I'd have to base a project on ChromeOS, which seemed strategically foolish (at least Nokia and Intel will have divergent interests to keep development focused on solving problems well in the abstract, rather than quick-n-dirty tangents a single vendor can accept).

    Especially if they stay with the mainline kernel, which Google isn't interested in doing, together Intel and Nokia are going to be much more successful than competing poorly against each other and Google.

    So, here's one developer's intent to go this way rather than Android (for a non-phone project). Congrats to the adults in both camps.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  17. Re:Interesting... by segedunum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it's more of a case of cutting down on maintenance and reducing fragmentation. You could potentially run Moblin or any piece of software that runs on Linux on Arm by recompiling anyway, so it makes very little difference.

  18. Re:Intel and ARM by Randle_Revar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Intel sold XScale a long time ago. June 2006, in fact, as you would know if you had looked at the link you posted.

    --
    Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
  19. Re:Package management by MoralHazard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'll bet you haven't used RPM in-depth since before YUM became the preferred front-end. If you had, you would have already known that rpm:dpkg what yum:apt, and there really isn't much of a difference between the two stacks, at this point.

    It's funny how little some people can be bothered to know about the Linux world outside their own little preferred ecosystems. Last week, I suggested that a co-worker might want use RPMs instead of tarballs to distribute a patched custom LAMP stack to a server farm. Rather than admit that he didn't know anything about writing spec files and couldn't be bothered to learn, he started lecturing me on the evils of "RPM dependency hell".

    In 2050, I'm sure some people who use some kind of Linux on a daily basis will still be spouting these old saws, feebly unaware that everybody is just too polite to whack an old geezer with the clue bat.