Slashdot Mirror
Toei Animation Thinks Mobiles Could Save Anime
andylim writes to share that according to a recent interview, Toei Animation, producers of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball z, think that mobile phones and tablets could help save the anime industry, which is being heavily damaged by piracy. Unfortunately the difficulty is getting all of the players to move in the same direction. "We think it's an incredibly exciting opportunity. Manufacturers and networks are going to need more than touchscreens and Twitter to shift phones in the future — content such as Toei's will hopefully add that extra value. Unfortunately, Ebato and Song haven't been inundated with requests for information. 'There's no convergence... the tech people and the content people aren't talking,' adds Song. In fact Song's last statement to us is much more than an anecdotal truth, it's the heart of the matter. It's not enough that Apple and Amazon are talking to content creators, everyone should be doing it. Of course, a good start would be to not hide people like Ebato and Song in distant exhibition halls, where only we can find them."
So, first "piracy" creates the international anime market, then "piracy" continues. The Anime fad rises to a peak, then fades. "Piracy" continues throughout the whole process. Then "piracy" is blamed for the downturn. The sad truth is: it's technically true. If it weren't for "piracy", there indeed would not have been a decrease in sales at this point, there would simply be nothing to decrease.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I don't know how anime are doing in Japan, but for the rest of the world I think that the overall bad quality of the localization plays a major role in guiding the potential consumers toward piracy.
Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon are cartoons.
Ghost in the Shell, Akira, and other classics are art.
And if you think a show like Neon Genesis Evangelion is for kids, you have more mental problems than Shinji.
Reasonable prices would do more to combat piracy than all the mobile platforms out there. 30 bucks list for 4 episodes of whatever anime series floats your boat at the moment on dvd is price-gouging.
It's all cartoons. The problem is Americans can't see that cartoons aren't just for kids.
Balderdash!
I would, if the price was reasonable ($1 per episode, good quality downloadables). I mean, why not? I pay for my games. I pay for my music. I pay for my books. Hell, I even pay for printed copies of stuff I can read for free (legally!) on the web like webcomics, so I may support the authors. What's wrong with paying for stuff, if that's stuff has value for you?
Or are you just trolling cartoons, anime, animation in general because you don't like it?
And you don't watch manga, you read manga.
I love anime! I watch them on english-subtitled fansubs.
As much as I want to buy original anime video, either the english dubbing sucks, or they change the cool moves ("Kage Bunshin no Jutsu" vs. "Art of the Shadow Doppelganger"? come on!) that it's just not right!
Some of my friends use the two terms interchangeably. Thanks for setting that straight.
The game.
Hell, if you want to be very strict with the definition of what a cartoon is, Avatar was half cartoon and half live action. Just a bit better made than Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
The game.
I think the way to achieve this is to pay the fan-subbers to use their translations. IMO normally they're better, lack censorship, and are already out there. I bet most would be ecstatic to be paid AND do what they love. And the price should be low, say $1 or $2 since the subs are out already. Some money is better than none.
Actually, most "adults" can't see that cartoons aren't just for kids.
Avatar was NOT better made than Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Just differently. I would argue that Who Framed Roger Rabbit is the better movie, but that's a whole other argument.
What the hell are you talking about?
There is a huge market for American comics state side . . the problem is for Manga/Anime is when it takes months for a comic that I can read online for free to be available for hard copy, which is what the article is trying to tackle.
As an avid manga reader, I'll admit that I would most likely read my stuff online for free, but I still buy a few movies if the series is really worth it to me.
And people do still purchase cartoons
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
This doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect any of you either.
No matter what people do to stop "piracy", the fansubs/full discography torrents/etc will still be easily available to people who know where to look.
In the above phrase, replace "where to look" with "how to use Google".
Anime is stuck in a rut right now because there is so little innovation. So much anime these days is the same old ideas with different characters. It's getting as bad as prime time comedies here in the US. You know, the ones which don't last more than a few episodes because, executive assurances to the contrary, they suck and people don't watch them.
You want a better anime market? More Miyazaki and Ghibli, less moe and Nabeshin. (I have a lot of respect for Nabeshin, but his recent anime are almost completely in-jokes and fourth-wall breakage.) So much modern anime now has all the depth of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Heck, for years there has been a glut of anime which is not porn by Japanese standards but is porn by US standards (specifically, topless women without the details removed, beyond the Barbie-doll nudity of before), so it's far less likely to ever get imported.
Add to this the fact that the markets and exchange rate, right now, aren't doing any favors. The going rate for a single OVA in Japan is some 5000 yen. That's about $50 here in the US, which is priced right out of the market. However, if an American licensee sells for a reasonable-to-us price ($10-15 or so per DVD), then it creates a huge incentive for Japanese to re-import the American version, because it's so much cheaper that way. This kills sales in Japan, which scares the bejeezus out of the licensors, so they mandate a minimum price in the $20-30 range here. Thus a piracy market is created. It's simple microeconomics (i.e. price supports). There's no good outcome here so long as the Japanese product is overpriced compared to international markets.
Mobile devices will buy time. They won't save their market any more than Internet presence is saving print news. That's all.
Unless you're talking about The Simpsons or Family Guy. The latter, they claim, is unsuitable for children.
It's a matter of taste I think.
There's a reason why most people pirate or use fan subs, because it's simply not available here or outrageously expensive (Here being the UK). We often have to wait several years after the original airing before Region 2 DVDs are available. While the US may have to wait a year (!) we have to wait much longer. Sure, we can import R1 DVDs but often at great expense both for postage and import duties. The few series that are available here are often hugely overpriced. I do buy DVDs when they are available and affordable, but I have no option other than to resort to piracy. There also seems to be a distinct lack of HD formats available here, and those that are available are even more expensive.
Make it available, make it affordable and we'll buy it. I don't mind if you only subtitle it rather than having to pay for a set of expensive English voice actors. I always watch with subtitles on anyway so dubs are useless to me.
1. Some Americans start watching Anime because it has cool sci-fi/fantasy stuff that American TV can't pull off
2. In the early 2000s it becomes a fad where droves of Americans watch some of the more "western-friendly" anime because it's "in"
3. The Anime companies in Japan realize there's a cash cow in America and start putting out truckloads of "western-friendly" but poor-quality anime
4. The original viewers give up on watching because much of the new anime is junk
5. Around 2007 the fad ends, the droves go somewhere else
6. The Anime companies are left holding the bag -- the original fans left because of the westernized junk anime, the "fad" droves left because the fad is over
7. Blame piracy.
That having been said, the Anime companies are slowly returning to putting out creative, original shows. That, I think, is ultimately what will "save anime."
Obvious flamebait. Get real dude.
Bad translations and terrible voice acting on already badly scripted dubs are much more responsible for the "downturn of the industry" than piracy. If anything, piracy was a big aid to the industry, because it brought awareness to an otherwise unnoticed aspect of an overseas culture.
But the big companies were not able to compete with the pirates simply because they were not offering a better product.
and that is the difference. The content still matters even though it isn't live action. The notion that animation isn't sophisticated enough to compare to live action is just rubbish.
Balderdash!
Right, because only kids watch shows like South Park, Family Guy and The Simpsons.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
Well of course. Anything with Danny Devito is by default better.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Piracy brought Anime to America, and sustains other markets as well, where Japanese prices are too high (China, Taiwan: manga insanely popular, but everyone buys pirates versions or reads scanlations online). The producers of manga and anime do so primarily for the Japanese market, which remains highly profitable. Unless the Japanese start pirating, the industry will do fine, and keep producing. Manga and anime needs to be as popular overseas as it is in Japan for traditional print distribution or dubbing studios to be profitable. The only places besides Japan where manga is that popular is China/Taiwan/Korea, and they have the same piracy issues as America, since noone there wants to pay for inferior service (long wait times and poor voice acting), compared to the superiority of fans who do it for the love of the medium.
Bottom line: Overseas production companies are going to hemmorhage money.
Also, I'm not crying about this. Fans do an awesome job of translating. There are far more fansubs and fan translations available than official licensed translations. Where they do buy rights to huge series, the pirated version has been out long before. I don't want to wait months for some company to wade through licensure and waiting for completed books; I happily read it the day it comes out in Japan, as it is usually scanned and translated within 3 hours, tops. Most fan translations do a great job, and I hate dubs with a passion. Why on earth should I pay for the DVD or a bound book?
Plus, the intersection of the anime/manga crowd and the geek crowd is a fairly large set. We're not stupid, and know how to use the internet(s) to get what we want.
Who would pay to watch cartoons?
I don't know, why don't you ask Pixar how much they grossed in the last decade.
Hell, if you want to be very strict with the definition of what a cartoon is, Avatar was half cartoon and half live action. Just a bit better made than Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit wouldn't have worked if the characters looked as "realistic" (*) as the ones in Avatar did. They were *meant* to be traditional cartoons in the real world, and Roger Rabbit came about as close as it would be possible to have that without them looking too realistic to look cartoony.
Of course, it's true that at that time they couldn't have made something like Avatar. But it's also true that today they probably couldn't improve upon Roger Rabbit for what it was.
Roger Rabbit *was* technically brilliant by non-CGI standards, and while modern technology might make it easier to do, I doubt it would ultimately make it any "better".
(*) FWIW, I haven't seen Avatar in the cinema, but the clips I saw on TV didn't look *that* realistic to be blunt; it still looked like CGI.
If the anime studios would make better subs, i would be inclined to replace my collection instead of buying what i keep with my backups. The english subs are from the english voice-overs that are used and are timed to the mouth of the characters, therefore they add/remove information and many things are lost in those translations... If they would give us a second track for the subs when we're watching with the original language, a "litteral translation" track, i would be more inclined to buy the legit ones instead of keeping my fansub version because it's far more superior...
There is currently every reason to just get the fansub instead of buying it...
I started with fansubs because when you were in high school and early college, you don't really have the money - especially not when a box set cost $90 to $120 USD. Yeah, the prices have come down considerably now, but even at 40 to 50 USD, you've got to realize those shows are 5 to 10 years old now.
That brings up another point - delay in releases. I'll watch the fansub, for example Burst Angel / AKA Bakuretsu Tenshi - it came out in 2004, I watched it at least 2 or 3 years ago on fansub - and only about 6 months to a year ago did I see it in the anime magazines "Burst Angel the next big anime?!?" That'd be like for all the people that somehow enjoy watching 24 and American Idol having to wait a year to find out what happens. "Hey guys, did you know Jack Bauer is in exile?" "Dude, that episode was like 2 years ago."
The 3rd big issue is quality. Fansubs are generally made from ripping the show from over the air TV that it airs on in Japan and add the subs. Every time I've tried "doing the right thing" and going and buying the DVD box-set, the DVD version looks like shit compared to what I downloaded a year or 2 ago. And I mean recently, within the past 3 months, where HDTV's are more common than ever. Also, as many other people have said, the English voice actors on dubbed DVD's tend to have retarded voice pitch, no emotion, and FUBAR the timing on the lines
I'll end my rant now, being as my lunch is over and I've gotta get back to work...
South Park, Family Guy, and the Simpsons are social and political satire (leave their effectiveness out of this, please), and thus qualify to most Americans as acceptable fare for adults in moderation (same class as Dilbert or an op-ed caricature cartoon). Anime hero tales of any sort are lumped in with the old Saturday morning fare. This is compounded by there genuinely being a lot of Japanese anime that IS targeted at youth, especially when corrected for social norms (Ranma, with its nudity, is a child/teen show; Dragonball, with its fairly graphic dismemberment (and nudity!), is a child/teen show). Add in the histrionics when Japanese shows talk about or show something adult (someone talking about sex about as candidly as would someone on Friends; using black-and-gray or black-and-black morality), and you've finished the portrait. Now, as the current generation of twenty-somethings matures, a lot of this will go away, since many, many people of that age have seen some anime or know someone otherwise reasonably sane that like anime. It may always seem a bit odd, but then, so is seriously enjoying zombie movies or coin-collecting. The stigma will shift in that direction, I think.
In Australia, at $30 for each dvd of 4-5 episodes of a 24-30 episode series, it makes no sense at all to buy anime. That's $900 for longer series, I'd prefer to buy more than a small stack of DVDS with inconsistent/poor quality subtitles for that kind of money.
Piracy isn't killing the industry, the horrible distribution costs are.
So.. My Little Pony: The Movie is better than Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Avatar? Confirmed.
They are late to the party. Fansub/re-encoders have been transcoding fansubs for iphone/blackberry for over two years (480x272 mp4 h264 AAC). And recently started transcoding for PSPs (432x240 mp4 h264 AAC).
Comment field from a fansub torrent link site entry:
Yes I agree, the English voiceovers always amuse me..
Akira... considered to be awesome by the fat anime con goers of the 90s.