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Use Open Source? Then You're a Pirate!

superapecommando writes "There's a fantastic little story in the Guardian today that says a US lobby group is trying to get the US government to consider open source as the equivalent to piracy. The International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA), an umbrella group for American publishing, software, film, television and music associations, has asked the US Trade Representative (USTR) to consider countries like Indonesia, Brazil, and India for its 'Special 301 watchlist' because they encourage the use of open source software. A Special 301, according to Guardian's Bobbie Johnson is: 'a report that examines the "adequacy and effectiveness of intellectual property rights" around the planet — effectively the list of countries that the US government considers enemies of capitalism. It often gets wheeled out as a form of trading pressure — often around pharmaceuticals and counterfeited goods — to try and force governments to change their behaviors.'"

34 of 650 comments (clear)

  1. if everyone ignored the quacks... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then the world would be a better place. Although, I kinda like the idea of being a pirate. I've always wanted to sail the open seas, plundering vessels, going ashore and plundering the village's wenches. AARRGGG.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Improv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only ignore the quacks if they lack influence. Otherwise, it's important to fight them.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    2. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, ignoring the quacks with influence is just ducking the issue.

    3. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Funny

      that's a good way to run afowl of the law.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    4. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 5, Funny

      AARRGGG.

      Dude... "arg"? What kind of pirate says "arg"? Everyone knows it's "ARRRRR!" Other valid alternatives include: YARRRR, YUHARRR, or other variations therefore. A trailing G should only be used in cases of pain or discomfort. For example: "AAARG, I've been run through by ye blade!", or "ARRRG, I think that wench had ye crotch rot".

    5. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


      Dude... "arg"? What kind of pirate says "arg"?

      A pirate who just had a cutlass jammed through his chest.

      .

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    6. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by socceroos · · Score: 5, Funny

      Parent is right, then you're either thrown in jail or slapped with a hefty bill.

    7. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by socceroos · · Score: 5, Funny

      The question then is: waddle we do about it?

    8. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dude... "arg"? What kind of pirate says "arg"?

      obviously a C-faring pirate!

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    9. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Gabrosin · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's a very mallardramatic thing to say.

    10. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps he was dictating?

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    11. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't like the tern this thread has taken.

    12. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by jaxtherat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually you'll find that what you're talking about isn't capitalism, but protectionism. Protecting revenue by banning cheaper products is inherently anti-capitalist.

      FOSS is 100% compatible with capitalism, as it is simply implements a different business model, and chooses to compete on acquisition price and openness factors of the TCO, i.e. making those its competitive advantages.

      --
      http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
    13. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by Blue+Stone · · Score: 5, Funny

      Make an eggsample of them?

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    14. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by dpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This subthread reminds me of Ursula K. LeGuinn in "The Dispossessed".

      "The toothbrush that I use."

      I'd just as soon it by MY toothbrush, thank you very much.

      Capitalism is capable of great evil, and must be held in check. The same can be said of Socialism. WhyOhWhyOhWhy does it seem like everyone is on some sort of "economic system purity" rampage?!? Can't we pick what is good, and what works, erring on the side of caution?

      Oh yeah, Socialism denies/curses greed. Capitalism worships it. In reality, greed is a strong motivator. So are a lot of other things. Why can't we treat it like other motivations, Good AND Evil instead of Good OR Evil?

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    15. Re:if everyone ignored the quacks... by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      FOSS is not compatible with Capitalism.

      Who mods this crap up?

      Capitalism is not offering to perform a service that people could do for themselves.

      This definition could apply to communism, despotism or even environmentalism because it does not define what capitalism is.

      Capitalism is where assets (good and services) are traded in a marketplace (note for Capitalism, it does not need to be an open marketplace, capitalism survives and even thrives in many types of controlled markets E.G. Protectionism). No part of FOSS is incompatible with this, FOSS does not restrict other goods or services from being traded, FOSS can be traded with other goods and services (as explicitly stated in the GPL). So in actual fact it's more compatible with a free market then proprietary software or even capitalism in many cases.

      People who create and release FOSS are dictators.

      Terrible strawman.

      A FOSS (GPL) developer gives you their work on one condition, if you distribute this work, you must distribute it and any variations of this work under the same license, that's it. You are not obliged to distribute it even if you change it but if you do it must be under the GPL. With BSD this is completely different. I don't see how you can call this is a dictatorship.

      Now with proprietary software I am not permitted to distribute nor change the software in any fashion, in many cases the way I use the software is also controlled. This is enforced with a legal and failing that literal gun to my head. This sounds a lot more like a dictatorship then FOSS.

      To make an analogy, if a man has two sons, and he gives one son his plow, and the other his sword, he dictates their fate by his choice of gift.

      This implies a person has no choice, this is wrong. So the child throws down the sword and picks up a lute, you have dictated nothing.

      A man who will work for your money, he is a tool, not a person

      No, that is the definition of a serf, not an employee. Employment is a contract between a person (employee) and another entity (employer) in which the employer agrees to enumerate an employee in exchange for a reasonable and limited service being provided by the employee for the benefit of the employer. It is a mutual contract, not a one sided purchase as you have described. An employee is in no way comparable to a tractor.

      Now your true statement comes out, FOSS is wrong because FOSS costs nothing in terms of upfront expenditure. This is the same BS as the article is using and flat out wrong.

      Your definition of capitalism is more akin to that of dictatorship. You also have terrible ideas on how to treat other people, including your own children. Right now I agree with one of my bosses sayings, "this company goes down the elevator every night" which means employee's aren't just assets.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  2. Seriously flawed logic by Palestrina · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The article quotes the IIPA recommendation on Indonesia:

    Rather than fostering a system that will allow users to benefit from the best solution available in the market, irrespective of the development model, it encourages a mindset that does not give due consideration to the value to intellectual creations.

    I think this is is seriously flawed logic. It appears to falsely equate "value" and "intellectual creation" with a proprietary, commercial development model. Proprietary IP rights are a way to exploit the value of intellectual creations. But proprietary rights are not the source of their value. We can give "due consideration to the value of intellectual creations" without discriminating against open source. Maybe buy the developer a beer or send them a thank you note, or better yet, a bug report or patch?

    We used to laud those benevolent spirits who contributed to the public good with no thought of remuneration. Now it seems we try to outlaw them. There might be a movie idea here.... The Police unions get together and sue Batman for doing pro bono work...

    1. Re:Seriously flawed logic by dvlhrns · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I could not agree more !!! It used to be that if you did something for the good of the public you were praised...now it seems we are gonna be prosecuted.

    2. Re:Seriously flawed logic by Angst+Badger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wondered when they'd get around to doing this. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't try it sooner.

      You can safely assume that if used clothing became fashionable amongst the moneyed classes, clothing manufacturers would try to force Goodwill and the Salvation Army out of business. Value is tied to scarcity, so trying to generate artificial scarcity is a pretty standard tactic. In a field like "intellectual property", where all scarcity is artificial, sharing is viewed as a sin.

      Of course, the real irony here is that artificial scarcity itself is an attack on the capitalist free market. But the free market only appeals to the little guy. To established interests, the free market is a threat. Ergo, companies like Microsoft spend most of their time trying to suppress competition, which is almost guaranteed to work, as opposed to actually competing, which carries a much larger risk of failure.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    3. Re:Seriously flawed logic by pclminion · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you think I would prefer a bug report over a beer then you have some serious brain damage.

  3. what a bunch of idiots by corbettw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The GPL is, arguably, the most popular and most well-known open source license. Without strong copyright law protecting the rights of creators, the GPL could not exist, depending as it does on copyright enforcement to effect its clauses. So I'm not sure what world this lobbying group lives in where FOSS is incompatible with copyright.

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  4. Add the USA to the list too by samuraiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The NSA's SELinux, anybody? Obama administration Drupal sites? Forge.mil?

    These morons can ask all they like but I don't think they're going to get anywhere.

  5. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by medv4380 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then you got a lil Captain in ya

  6. "IP" != capitalism by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quite the contrary. Copyrights, patents, etc are monopolies created and granted by government to selected individuals and companies and therefor are the very antithesis of capitalism (which is orthogonal to the question of whether or not they should exist). In a totally free market anyone would be free to manufacture and sell any object even if it was a copy of an object first made by someone else. The express purpose of copyright and patent laws is to prevent competition.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  7. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Then you support pirates, which means that you must be guilty of "contributory infringement".

    In all seriousness, though, times like this are perfect example of the difference between free marketeers and scumsucking rent-seeking corporatists who don't deserve to live.

    Anybody who makes, and in public no less, the argument that OSS software, voluntarily released by its owners under particular licences, is a "threat to intellectual property" is simply making the petulant demand that "intellectual property" be made to equal "Payments to me, in perpetuity". The intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

  8. Should be named... by MrTripps · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Institution of International Pathetic Asshats. Here is what that haven of piracy Canada has to say about it when they were put on the list: "Canada does not recognize the Special 301 process due to its lacking of reliable and objective analysis, and we have raised this issue regularly with the U.S. in our bilateral discussions." Even our mild mannered neighborino to the North told them to go suck an egg. I have yet to see any reason why being on that list should bother a country in the slightest.

    --
    "I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
  9. As usual, the headline is flawed. by MrCrassic · · Score: 5, Informative

    A few notes:

    • What does a pretty traveler on the beach have to do with the story? Is it supposed to entice viewers to read it?
    • The main article is Slashdotted, so here's Google's text-only cached version: link

    On the article, the main qualm for the author of the main article seems to be with Indonesia's inclusion into the Special 301 list. For those that didn't read the article but don't know what that list is, the Special 301 list monitors countries that are known for infringing IP rights on a wide-scale (or at least that's the jist I got from reading the articles).

    If one reads at least the Executive Summary for Indonesia's report, it is made pretty clear that the analyzed paragraph is not the reason why Indonesia was included on that list. Their issues are, like many second- and third-world countries, much more far-reaching that.

    Firstly, it is important to recognize that these are not governmental mandates. These are requests. While there is some legitimacy in claiming that the exclusive use of (free and) open-source software imbalances the playing field for companies looking to make a profit, it is very weak. Nobody complained when Germany or France switched over to OpenDocument format and Linux on government desktops, even though that both of those actions, according to the IIPA, would be guilty of the same thing. It should be a government's decision to determine whether they want to adopt a purely free and open-source computing environment; in fact, it is actually a pretty good decision for them since it would help them deter privacy at-home (which is ultimately what these folks want) while saving them massive dollars. I highly doubt that this will be followed through; too many questions would be raised.

    Secondly, one the real reasons why Indonesia is on that list is clearly stated if one reads a bit further down into the report. They are reported as ranking in the world's top 12 countries for business software piracy. That more than likely means they get lots and lots of copies of Office from TPB or wherever. I'm not against piracy, but that would definitely be a legitimate cause for landing up on that list. They are also reported to have lots of other issues with illegal copying/selling/et al.

    I am not against piracy (at least on a personal level), but I am against sensational journalism that only blows up a few pixels out of the bigger picture instead of looking at the whole image. This is hardly an attack on open-source; it's just a "thing they noticed."

  10. Re:Aaaarrrrggg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    spanish_main( int arrrrrgc, char *arrrrrgv[] )

  11. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by jpmorgan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is, there aren't many free marketers.

    On one side of the aisle you have the scummy rent-seeking corporatists. And on the other side you have the anti-corporate socialist 'progressives.' Neither side of the political debate want a free market. Both sides want the government to set rules to benefit special interests. The only difference is which. And so the free market is strangled to death. Crushed under the weight of regulations, subsidies, fat government contracts and handouts.

    The only times the free market has ever truly reigned is when it explodes and outpaces, for a short time, the long arm of political meddling.

  12. Re:I thought open source was communism? by megamerican · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OSS is free market enterprise and has nothing to do with socialism.

    Socialism is when the government forcefully confiscates someones time, money or resources and gives it to someone else.

    OSS is 100% voluntary and thus is free market enterprise. Voluntary associations are essential to any capitalist society because individuals and corporations can not fill the needs of everyone.

    The kind of society we are living in now is Piracy, where large corporations can keep their profits and then plunder the public treasury when things go bad. Piracy is what this IIPA organization is advocating, not capitalism.

    As funny as it may sound, when you freely give away your time and money to a cause, such as OSS you are being a capitalist and when you pay any non-voluntary taxes you are participating in socialism.

    --
    If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
  13. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you use open source, then you're a pirate? Ok, slap him in prison. go on, I'd love to see them try :)

  14. Hide your source code ... by PPH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... and you must be a pirate. Why hide something when you haven't done something wrong?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by andydread · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Crushed under the weight of regulations,

    The problem is that companies do unscrupulous things in the absence of regulation. Monsanto and PCPs for instance. Do we really want companies pumping toxic crap into our ground water? What about pumping black soot into the sky? How about using melamine in milk to maximize profits? What about all the snake oil stuff that got sold to the public in the 1920s? with the lack of regulation. back then people had all kinds of radioactive products back then. No regulation. Look at china today. Look at Bejing. Where they had to take drastic measures to cut smog for the Olympics. The don't use catalytic converters over there. Look at all the companies that know they are selling unsafe products due to internal research yet still chose to sell the product because profits come first. I think its the sleazy players in the marketplace that forces regulators to step in. If the market players had any ethics there would be no need to regulate.

  16. Re:If you use open source, you're a pirate... by nine-times · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Make no mistake: we're in a propaganda war. You might call it "marketing" or "public relations" or "lobbying" or whatever else you want to call it, but the intention is the same. Publishers of games, books, movies, music, and software are all trying to convince you of a particular view of "intellectual property". They're not trying to convince you through honest rational arguments, but rather through logical fallacies and mass brainwashing.

    They're trying to convince us all that they are, as industries, entitled to exist, and entitled to a governmental guarantee of profitability. They're trying to convince us that copyright was always considered an inalienable human right, and that authors of creative works have always been entitled to absolute control of their creations in perpetuity. Further, they're trying to convince us that they, the publishers, are the true authors of these works. The guy who wrote the song or the novel, the band who performed the song, the developer who actually wrote the code-- these people are just employees. They're assistants in the process, but the company who funded the work is the true author, and the only one entitled to protection.

    That's the propaganda being sold to the public. Don't think for a second that we're involved in an honest debate.