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Toyota Black Box Data Is More Closed Than Others'
wjr writes "Many cars these days contain black boxes that record information (speed, accelerator position, etc) and can preserve information in the case of an accident. Ford and Chrysler say that they use 'open systems' so anyone can read out the data; General Motors has licensed Bosch to produce a device capable of reading its cars' black boxes. On the other hand, Toyota has only a single laptop in the US capable of reading its cars' black boxes, and generally won't allow the data to be read without a court order. Honda seems to have a similar policy. This is emerging as an issue in the investigation into unintended acceleration."
Yup. Same goes with medical equipment and everything else: encrypt the firmware uploading apparatus so that the only people who see the firmware instructions are the engineers who create it. Technicians and the public remain ignorant, and fixes are released as "new features" before the public figures out that their gadget is a fire hazard.
But I doubt all that would stop a team of determined reverse-engineers familiar with the microcontrollers used. Enter the DMCA.
Car black boxes cannot be used to track where you've been. Not only do they not record positional data, they also only record a buffer of about 10-15 seconds. By the time you pull off the highway and get to your house, everything you've done prior in the day (or since you've gotten on the highway) has already been pushed off the stack.
Not only that, the actual scene data (skidmarks, etc) are much more valuable to accident reconstruction and investigation than the black box. It's only a small bit of data they can use, it can't be the sole one. Especially if for example, the car gets rolled over - even if it happened at 40mph, the free spinning wheels would show that the car suddenly went from 40mph to 80mph..
"We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
unless you as an owner personally want to see the data.. then hacking is the only route... unless you think its not a giant pain in the butt for the owner to have to get a court order
None of the car companies computed the cost of killing people vs. savings for safety features.
Except Ford, with their famous Pinto. Google for "Ford Pinto Memo" if you want to understand who invented the cost-benefits computation in the case of vehicular maiming/killing.
i've done software that reads outputs from lab insturments and from onboard computers on haul trucks before, and it can be very very hard even with the manual to the instrument, let alone someone actively trying to prevent anyone decoding the data.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
MOD PARENT UP. Thanks for saying that.
I was talking to an acquaintance at Daimler who heads a programming project for Daimler trucks. The number of processors and lines of code in a Toyota is wildly exaggerated. The actual figure is somewhat the same as in Mercedes-Benz automobiles.
Since you can't follow the link either:
Alfred Katzenbach, the director of information technology management at Daimler, has reportedly said that the radio and navigation system in the current S-class Mercedes-Benz requires over 20 million lines of code alone and that the car contains nearly as many ECUs as the new Airbus A380 (excluding the plane's in-flight entertainment system).
No deduction necessary. I would tend to give some credence to Mr. Katzenbach's statements about the makeup of Daimler's products.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Of course, on the Airbus, they take out the non-critical component's LOC count!
As someone who works on embed systems (aircraft) I can tell you that it isn't difficult to avoid what you're describing. The engine ECU can easily be isolated from all the silly accessory crap. Even if there is an interface it is pretty easy to design, test, and implement, measures to prevent what you're describing. These are embedded ECUs. Not web servers.
The wiki reckons you are off by an order of magnitude. There's been over 40,000 auto deaths every year for the past decade. About 115 per day. And that's only in the United States.
Given only a small fraction of motor accidents are fatal, I'd guess the overall number of accidents is well into the millions. More quick googling suggests about 6.5 million auto accidents in the US each year and almost 3 million injuries as a result.
Frankly, that statistic doesn't make much sense. In the article it's just a BS number that shouldn't have been quoted by the hack writer and it isn't even referring to Toyota.
This car runs on code.
Free Martian Whores!
It's more likely retrievable through the OBD-II connector, which is required to be fitted in all new vehicles sold in the US.