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Real Settles Lawsuits, Will Stop Selling RealDVD

Posted by timothy on from the check-with-your-corporate-masters dept.

angry tapir writes "RealNetworks has agreed to pay $4.5 million and permanently stop selling its RealDVD software as part of a legal settlement with six Hollywood movie studios. The lawsuits date back to 2008 and Slashdot has previously discussed them. RealDVD is an application that lets people make copies of their DVDs."

35 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. Oh no, we're screwed! by N3tRunner · · Score: 3, Funny

    Because there's no other way to possibly make copies of DVDs now that RealDVD is gone!

    1. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by OrwellianLurker · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The fact that it is even illegal is absurd. This case is just one depressing example.

      --
      'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
    2. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. I have stacks of DVDs that I never watch because it's tricky to open the DVD case (it's in the living room where the kids often stack their toys), find the movie I want to watch, put it in the player and keep track of where the empty case is. Plus, if the kids want to watch a movie, they can't do it themselves. (My 1st grade son is computer/electronics savvy but I'm not letting him handle a DVD by himself just yet.)

      Meanwhile, I have a CinemaTube hooked up to an external hard drive. I've ripped many of my DVDs onto this hard drive and can now watch them on my TV without needing to load the discs. Technically, I've violated copyright law, but I don't consider this a violation because a) I'm just place/format shifting and b) I'm not sharing these rips out. (Nor am I downloading rips to put on there.)

      What I am doing isn't costing the movie industry any "lost sales." In fact, it might increase sales as I'll be more likely to watch DVD movies I buy and not just regard them as wasted cash. So why should it be illegal just because I *might* share the DVD rip on the Internet? Why not call sharing the DVD rip illegal (since that is what they are worried about) and end it at that? (Of course, the answer to these questions is that they want to have the ability later to sell you "digital copies" that will play on "authorized devices" even if they don't offer such copies for sale now.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Informative

      What I am doing isn't costing the movie industry any "lost sales."

      That's where you are incorrect. Now, before you flame me, consider my same position. In high school I paid good money for a (licensed) MST3K Pod People VHS tape. It has since been watched to shreds. It did not help that I lent it to people in college so their filthy whore VHS players could gunk it up. I had no way to duplicate it digitally but had I done that initially, I would have.

      Many years later I have many (licensed) MST3K DVDs. Some from Rhino some from The Shout Factory. My ritual is similar to yours except I play them once in my computer with DVD decrypter and then they are safely shelved (hopefully) never to be played again. Later I use handbrake for a similar setup that you have going on but instead to play them on my XBox over a network.

      Now, in the case of Pod People, I have paid to license it twice in a very short amount of time. You may argue it was for quality yet I have no problem with VHS quality (and some DVDs seem to be VHS quality). Should the industry fail to entice you or I with Blu Ray and beyond, our neatly digitally backed up copies will suffice us for quite sometime ... after paying ~$40/set of four DVDs and now being on volume XVI, I guarantee you that I will not be moving from DVD MST3K any time soon. Thank god we have the technology to do this.

      Back to the story, DVD Decrypter has been defunct since 2005 (forced to by legal issues) so I'm not getting anymore updates. And it doesn't work on all of the newest big studio name DVDs. K9Copy is alive and well, I believe and Handbrake works well if you don't need an ISO. But the real problem is that once RealDVD goes down, where do you think the attention will go next? Probably towards putting K9Copy and Handbrake with DVD Decrypter.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    4. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Technically, I've violated copyright law

      No, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in the U.S. anyway, you haven't violated copyright law, not even technically. Now, if you were to begin distributing those copies it's a different matter.

      In fact, it might increase sales as I'll be more likely to watch DVD movies I buy and not just regard them as wasted cash.

      Ha .. if these little bloodsuckers could get away selling you a disc that would play exactly once and then self-destruct Mission Impossible-style, believe me they would do it. They want you to consider your media a consumable, not a collectible.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't consider this a violation because a) I'm just place/format shifting

      FILTHY PIRATE!

      You should purchase one copy for each medium you want to view the media with! And another when you can't use it through wear and tear! AND AGAIN WHEN THE VIEWING DEVICE BREAKS!

      *Wanders off to find more bolivian marching powder / ladies of questionable morality.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by closetpsycho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a lawyer either, but you're right. He hasn't violated copyright law. He has violated the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause though.

    7. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by v1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      mac the ripper is still available and updated. it copies off the disc to a video_ts folder with the encryption and noops removed. (and region coding if necessary)

      Since the transcoding process takes awhile, I usually MTR all the discs in a box at once to hard drive, and queue them all up in handbrake. Let that run 2-3 days on its own with out having to feed it a disc every hour or so and it's done. (requires a fair chunk of free HD space for all those video_ts folders)

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    8. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      The industry has no real chance of wooing me with Blu Ray anytime soon. I don't even have an HD TV set in my house. The way I see it, money is tight and my TVs work fine. Do they show resolution as good as HD TVs? No, but it is good enough for my purposes. Eventually, when those TVs fail, I'll buy an HD TV but only because those seem to be the only ones on the market now.

      And even when I do get a HD TV, I'll still use my trusty DVD players. Heck, I'm still using one about 10 years old that has the annoying habit of automatically closing the tray a second after you open it. So you need to open it, hold the tray open, place the DVD in and *then* let it close. But other than that glitch I'm fine with the player's performance so I haven't spent the $30 or so to replace it. And even, way down the road, if I upgrade to Blu Ray, my DVDs should still work on those players just fine.

      Basically, the industry has no hope of getting me to pay for Blu Ray titles that I already own in DVD format. Of course, they'd *like* me to pay them again for the "Special Edition" and then the "Blu Ray combo pack" and then the "Ultra Cool Blu Ray Remastered Edition" and then the "Limited Time Collector's Box Set", etc. But I wouldn't buy all those whether or not I had access to DVD ripping. No lost sales here.

      Oh and thanks for the Handbrake/K9Copy mentions. I'll have to try those on some of the more stubborn DVDs I have.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    9. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by butlerm · · Score: 3, Informative

      If all he did was make a copy of a DVD, I beg to differ. DMCA Section 1201:

      (a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. -- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. ...
      (c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. -- (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.

    10. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ixidor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      except, with those 2 at odds, and the riaa/mpaa with buckets more money than you or i,who do you think would survive the court case? it would drag on for years if you could afford that.

    11. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by plague3106 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In no location in the US is sex out of wedlock illegal.

    12. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by omglolbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I buy DVDs (which I do more than I should..) the only time the disc is ever touched is when I rip it to drive.

      I have a media server with 2.7TB of drive space and I hate fiddling with discs. I have scripts set up to rip and convert the movie to a high quality file with a more decent filesize than raw DVD.

      Using this setup I have a whole lot more flexibility when it comes to what I want to watch when... Oh and there is no annoying as hell buzzing from the dvdrom....

      The movie industry can, as so eloquently said by the bartender in "Boondock Saints":

        "Why dont you make like a tree and get the fuck out of here".

    13. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So? This says that you can still claim fair use as a defense to copyright infringement. But circumventing DRM isn't a copyright infringement...

    14. Re:Oh no, we're screwed! by ndege · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why I moved the wii, dvd, receiver/amp down low. We allow, and encourage, our 2 year old switch out dvds, adjust volume, etc. We went from having a upset/frustrated child (due to wanting to help and be involved) to having a child that is careful and loves to help by letting the child be involved and help. When we sit down to watch a DVD, the little one ejects the carsole, drops in the proper DVD, with it oriented correctly, pushes the carosole back in, and turns off the overhead lights: all this started at about 20 months of age.

      With the DVDs, the worst we have had to deal with is the finger prints (which can be cleaned very easily in the sink with some dawn liquid dish soap and warm water).

      I feel it is better that kids be given the opportunity to learn as much as they desire as young as possible, provided they aren't risking serious injury to themselves or others....or aren't breaking stuff needlessly. This concept is also why we purchased some cheap plastic wine goblets (for drinking apple juice/water). If they get dropped, no biggy. But at the same time, they look like grown-up glassware and thereby can teach how to be careful and respect nice things.

      This TED Talk entitled, 5 Dangerous things for kids really captures the idea I am trying to convey. I know that not all kids have the focus and attention to detail that is necessary for interacting with a home entertainment center, but for those that can, they should not be stifled.

      Just by $0.02.

      --
      Sig Return: 204 No Content
  2. So that's ... by sfritsche · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... one less competitor for SlySoft. They must be partying on Antiqua.

    --
    "I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse." -- Groucho Marx
  3. Stop selling could also mean... by Advocadus+Diaboli · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...giving them away for free of charge. :-) SCNR

  4. Please, no! by bcmm · · Score: 5, Funny

    Please Slashdot, don't make me decide whether I hate Hollywood or RealNetworks more!

    --
    # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
    Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    1. Re:Please, no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You should really all be a little bit concerned. Most of you reading slashdot are ahead of the tech curve/average and you'll find a way to backup your DVD or acquire it by other means. The DMCA is way out of control and the fact that it is legal to make a copy of your DVD, but illegal to circumvent any copy protection scheme....well, it just doesn't make sense. That's like saying you are allowed to go swimming, but not allowed to get wet. We really should all get together and start to voice our displeasure to our elected representatives. I've seen the DMCA used to squash competitors for things like printer cartridges and garage door openers. It needs to be radically revised or corporations are going to continue to abuse it.

    2. Re:Please, no! by bcmm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no point in hating RealNetworks, just use a competetitor

      I remember when all online video was RealVideo.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    3. Re:Please, no! by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So do I, and they sucked even worse then than they do now. Competetion is good for the consumers!

      --
      Free Martian Whores!
  5. I can't believe this ... by Van+Cutter+Romney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have to agree with Freedomworks (the people who brought you teabaggers) on this. Foes can sometimes turn into friends while fighting a common enenmy.

    --
    Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
    1. Re:I can't believe this ... by garg0yle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rule 29 applies here:

      The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less.

      --
      Modding "-1, Troll" is not a proper response if you disagree with me. Try reason.
  6. dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by migloo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sue me now!

    1. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by loutr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wasn't aware dd implemented DeCSS.

    2. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They might be able to get you on copyright claims; but nothing DMCA related, since the DVD image you create will still have CSS fully intact(analogous to the old days, pre deCSS, where pirates simply produced cloned disks, which worked just fine because all consumer DVD players were designed to work with encrypted disks).

      Still a useful technique in some cases. Because there is no re-encoding done, the CPU load of doing a rip that way(on any machine not stuck in PIO) is virtually nil, and the speed is limited only by the weakest link of your storage system(typically the DVD drive itself). VLC, or other civilized media players, will treat the .iso exactly as though it were the original DVD. If you do need the additional compression, handbrake will accept the .iso as an input. Very handy if you want to process multiple DVDs without being there to swap disks between encoding sessions. Do the .iso dumps first, which is quite fast because it is computationally cheap, get all the disk swapping over with, then queue up the slow and computationally expensive encoding jobs to happen from the disk images while you go and do something else.

    3. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by funkatron · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hollywood cant sue you. You are a human and are therefore unrecognised as any form of legal entity.

      --
      "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
    4. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by greed · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Other way around; the key zone on the disc is readable by any player. But on consumer writable media, it is pre-burned with zeros.

      It is also part of the "meta information"; you can't see it with normal I/O commands like 'dd'. You'd have to have a device driver that implements a DVD-specific ioctl to retrieve the keys.

      Since .iso is a headerless format, you'd need a lookaside file to contain the metadata needed to make a virtual drive that lets you mount an encrypted .iso. Or use an image file format that supports metadata.

      Of course, the people writing the sort of stuff aren't trying to stay within the letter of a law that either (a) does not apply in their country or (b) they don't like, no-one bothers. AFAIK and all that.

      In fact, implementing such a system may expose you to PATENT claims in the U.S.!

    5. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, CSS isn't to prevent you from copying the disk at all. You can quite easily copy a CSS protected disk, and the copy will still be encrypted of course, but it will play fine. (and Mplayer, VLC, etc. will break CSS in real time and play from an encrypted VOB/ISO/Physical Disc).

      The only reason some DVDs are hard to rip recently is because they have some *other* protection that *does* prevent you from copying them easily. Usually they have the sectors set up in an odd way, so that if you try to play the video straight through it works, but if you try to copy the whole disk instead, it will result in like 9000 gigabytes of data. (i.e. they have a lot of extra sectors listed on files that aren't used or something like that).

      CSS isn't copy protection, it's *use* protection. You can't convert the video into another format if it's CSS encrypted. You can't make a PSP or iPod version, f.e., if you can't decrypt it. You also can't make a small DivX or whatever to send on p2p networks. (Of course you could just upload the whole CSSed ISO, which anyone can play...)

    6. Re:dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso by Spykk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That will still be encrypted. You should try something like dd if=/dev/dvd | emacs --decrypt-dvd --pop-popcorn --dim-lights > dvd.mkv

  7. Shit! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now I'll have to go back to using Handbrake again, and miss out on RealDVD's actually-pretty-onerous-and-studio-friendly DRM features. I'm not sure how I'll manage using a free program that produces fully unencumbered versions after using quality commercial software from a trusted name like Real.

    Seriously, though, what did they hope to accomplish by slapping Real down? Our Antiguan buddies at Slysoft are still up to their nefarious tricks, so it isn't as though smacking Real did much damage to the market for commercial DVD ripping products; and libdvdcss, VLC, et al. are still doing their thing and not at all hard to find on the OSS side.

    So far as I can see, the moral of the story here is that if you try to offer a product that pleases customers while playing nice with studios(as Real did by offering ripping; but imposing restrictions on the rips) the studios will gut you and spit on your corpse; but if you just brazenly violate the restrictions, they'll be powerless to stop you. I'm pretty sure that that isn't the message that they really want to send.

    1. Re:Shit! by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Easy to use as it is, Handbrake is still a 'geek market' product. Hollywood knows we're already lost causes in the PR battle, that we know our fair use rights better than most, and that for every OSS program they try to shut down two more will spring up in its place. Not only that, Handbrake has no US presence (AFAIK) and even if it did I can see the EFF (who are experts in precisely this kind of field, and who fight on principle rather than just profit) stepping up to the plate if they did get sued, leading to a potentially messy and drawn out case and PR war for little to no benefit.

      RealNetworks, on the other hand, has some (although probably small) measure of brand recognition among the general public. They care about profit and are quite happy to throw the case to the other side if it looks like it'll be the cheapest option. Net result: the entertainment industry gets to put out headlines saying "American company told to stop selling all that nasty illegal DVD copying software", and the general public takes home the message that "DVD copying is illegal". Seems like a fairly deft PR move to me, at least within the context of the Hollywood studio mindset.

    2. Re:Shit! by celtic_hackr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know plenty of barely literate Windows users using Windows ripping tools, with equal ease as geeks with their geeky ones. The Studios have already lost, because they have the same faulty perception as you do. It's not just geeks; it's 16 year old cheerleaders, and 50 year business owners, and the old lady down the street. I even know a few old ladies running Linux desktops (why because when you're retired you have limited income, and Linux is God Damn cheap). It's all over except the shouting, but the Studios are too busy shouting to hear the silence from the other side.

      I almost feel sorry for them.

  8. Re:What is the tehnical issue here? by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's simple, the CSS key is stored in normally unreadable/unwritable areas of the disk, so a straight copy misses the key and it won't play. However, if you decrypt it and burn the decrypted version to a new disk, it will play fine.

  9. Apple Disk Utility app by zerosomething · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For years OS X users have been duplication CDs and DVDs using Disk Utility on their Macs. Just make a disk image of the item then burn that disk image to a CD-R or DVD-R. You might have issues with DL disks. +R media works on some/many system too. Guess this means Apple will get sued next.

    --
    It all starts at 0