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Scientology Tries To Block German Documentary
eldavojohn writes "The Guardian is reporting on the strained relationship that Scientology is having with the German government and the airing of a pesky documentary on Southwest Broadcasting. Until Nothing Remains, a $2.3 million documentary, is slotted to air on German television at the end of this month. It recounts the true story of Heiner von Rönn and his family's suffering when he tried to leave the Church of Scientology. A Scientology spokesperson called the film false and intolerant and also said they are investigating legal means to stop the film from being aired. More details on the film can be gleaned here."
Germany doesn't know yet what Scientology is, a business, a religion or a cult. This may make up the courts' mind.
From Wikipedia/Church of Scientology:
In Germany, official views of Scientology are particularly skeptical. In Germany it is seen as a totalitarian anti-democratic organization and is under observation by national security organizations due, among other reasons, to suspicion of violating the human rights of its members granted by the German Constitution, including Hubbard's pessimistic views on democracy vis-à-vis psychiatry and other such features. In December 2007, Germany's interior ministers said that they considered the goals of Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and would seek to ban the organization. The plans were quickly criticised as ill-advised. The plans to ban Scientology were finally dropped in November 2008, after preliminary investigations failed to unearth evidence of illegal or unconstitutional activity.
The legal status of the Church of Scientology in Germany is still awaiting resolution; some courts have ruled that it is a business, others have affirmed its religious nature. The German government has affirmed that it does not consider the Church of Scientology to be a religious community.
If any fellow Anonymous in Germany feel like telling the German government why they should not consider Scientology a religion, then please be my guest. Be clear, make yourself heard. "Ich bin Anonymous!"
Let's take a look at the Grundgesetz...
Grundgesetz, Artikel 5:
(1) Everybody has the right to express and distribute his opinion in word, writing or picture, and also to inform himself from any public source. The freedom of press and the freedom of reporting through broadcasting and movies is assured. No censorship takes place.
(2) These rights are limited only by the general laws for protection of the youth and protection of the personal honor.
(3) Art and science, research and teaching are free. The freedom of teaching does not release from the faith to the constitution.
(IANAL, but it beats Babelfish)
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Now I am interested in that film...
Regardless, Scientology is prohibited in Germany; So I doubt they will have much of a case for the german courts.
This is like the Streisand effect - it will only generate publicity. So thank you Scientology for making me aware of this documentary.
An organization as dangerous as Scientology must not be given a chance to prevent education. The are banned for a reason. I hope the courts will just laugh at them and send their lawyers home. And now i'd really like to see that movie.
Nope, I think you mistook me for someone else.
Scientology is not prohibited in Germany. However, it failed to gain the status of a church and is considered a cult. Also it is being watched closely because it is considered "hostile to the constitution", IIRC.
There are, but there are also laws to protect people (and organizations) from libel and untrue reporting.
In short: if you don't claim something is a fact but only your opinion, you're pretty much free to say anything. If you claim sonething is a fact, and the subject of the fact doesn't like it, court might ask you to proove that you double-checked your "facts" first.
This news is nothing special. You're almost expected to go that route if you hear about bad news are to be published (and you employ a lawyer...) but considering the standard of journalism in public tv, scientology hasn't much of a chance to pull that documentary off the air.
bickerdyke
... "Streisandeffect". Please.
You can't for now, but maybe XenuTV will be able to help when a digital copy is released.
Dilbert RSS feed
The problem here is that many public networks shy away from these documentaries BECAUSE of the clout of Scientology. However, ARD is supported by public euros and as such answers to nobody even the government. Many whine about having to pay a TV tax, but I gladly pay my monthly TV tax as it produces documentaries that ask hard hitting questions. Public networks would definitely not support it...
I am a supporter of free markets and capitalism, but at times we need the government.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
This is like the Streisand effect ...
We're talking about Germany. I'd suggest "Hasselhoff Effect" instead.
Why would they need to deny that? It's a documentary, that's the point.
Fuck Scientology. I've never seen a larger collection of assholes ever.
Scientology is allowed to operate and exist in Germany, but it is considered a for-profit organisation. That means it doesn't even enjoy charity status, much less the much-coveted tax exemption.
So yes, they could attempt to get a temporary restraining order, but I doubt that this will go well for them. It's too close to the broadcast date, and the editors and producers have most likely done their homework.
Oh this one. Geez, never heard about it, never would have, except now they sue so the entire world hears about it.
Streisand Effect anyone?
When we shipped the religious nutters to the colonies, the understanding was that they were supposed to stay there. Not come back!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I feel most sorry for the mislead idiots doing the dirty work for Scientology higher ups. They dont know they are following a Scifi novel, a pretty lame one sadly. Written by an utter bastard that once said, "If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion."
He did...
HTTP/1.1 400
As a citizen of Europe, I'm going to have to point out passionately how full of neutering all such "Constitutions" are.
For example, in Germany I cannot freely:
- State that only 1,000,000 Jews died in the Holocaust: utter bullshit, but if the above clause has any effect, I must be allowed to do this, lest the principle leading to the exception is used to restrict me from legitimate review and criticism of policy based on established scholarship;
- Parade with swastikas: fairly stupid, but if the above clause has any effect, I must be allowed to do this, lest I am restricted from parodying a government going where it's gone before ("we're not like Nazis - we ban the swastika!").
Also, such exceptions inevitably ride the slippery slope to encompass the restriction of far more freedoms. I'm sure the CoS will explain why their detractors are "like Nazis" oppressing religious freedom, their speech thus outlawed - enjoy that hurdle.
No, not stretchable at all. A legal entity cannot have personal honour. This is limited to natural persons.
A major difference to the US , which seems to be on the verge of granting corporations citizenship.
According to the law of my country (Belgium) and Germany, Scientology is not a religion.
In order for anyone to expose that they are not a religion, you do indeed need dissenters, not die hard fans.
I think you owe the people in Germany an apology for that last comment you made but hey, it's your karma (and I don't mean /. karma).
News about the Kettle Open Source project: on my blog
It looks like you have a case of selective reading. The GP discussed how one TV station is funded by public money and thus isn't scared of programming like this. That hardly proves that they have "blind faith" in anything. It definitely doesn't mean these people have a blind faith in government! Why? For the same reason your other point is bunk. Government run media outlet? The GP specifically said that this station answers to "nobody not even the government." Maybe if you had taken the time to disprove his assertion that this station is free from government control, your second point would stand. Either way, your first point is just stupid.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
Scientology is not banned. They have just been denied the legal status of a church, and they're closely watched for their antidemocratic behavior.
The problem is Scientology doesn't work the way other religions work, with respect to fanaticism. With Christianity (or Islam, or Judaism, or most traditional religions), you get a fair amount of fanatical individuals. You get the people that shoot doctors providing abortions and you get the suicide bombers.
As far as I've seen, the fanatics in Scientology are all high up in the organization and are smart enough to at least try and be circumspect about what they do. They're better organized than individuals or small groups. They're slicker and know how to sell their product.
That's the real problem here. Other religions may inspire some fanatics, but Scientology is run by fanatics.
Every time there is any Internet forum discussion critical of Scientology this same meme pops up. It's not true. Elevating Scientology to the same status as established religions with thousands of years of history is an attempt BY SCIENTOLOGY to legitimize itself. Just look at how a discussion about Scientology and a "docudrama" about it spawned this sub-thread plus discussions of Atheism vs. Theism, Christianity's historical abuses of believers and non-believers, political power struggles of one dogma vs another, the current state of Islam, etc.
Any other org is fair game so long as negative attention is diverted from Scientology.
Keep your eye on the ball, folks.
I wish people would stop thinking of the "Christian right" as Christians, as they don't follow the teachings of Christ at all and in fact preach the opposite of what Christ taught.
Christ was a rebel who was executed for heresy. Were he alive today rather than 2000 years ago, the "Christian Right" would crucify him again.
Free Martian Whores!
What is the body count for Scientology?. Ok.
Now, what is the body count for christianity, islam, and judaism?. Aha ...
Obviously we should be fighting both, then.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
This is only because Scientology was invented relatively recently. The level of critical thinking on new things is significantly better now than it was in the past (although it may not seem like it...). We also have much better record keeping practises, so it's easy to identify where Scientology came from, how it started, etc. That's why Scientology is having such a rough time of it. It's a heck of a lot harder to start a religion now than it was centuries ago. As a result, it has to be more aggressive as well, although that's (finally) starting to backfire on them.
If It had been started a couple thousand years ago like all the other major religions when ignorance was the norm, then we would all be praying about Xenu.
You'll notice that all major religions were created a long time ago, when superstition was rampant and science as we know it didn't exist. It's very difficult to eliminate something that's been so firmly entwined in cultural memory. Combine that with the human tendency to resist change, especially regarding beliefs taught to you since childhood (when, incidentally, you are genetically programmed to suck up any and all knowledge fed to you, hook line and sinker), you can see how something so nonsensical can somehow manage to keep going for so long.
There is nothing more amusing in life then watching two sides of intolerant try to explain to one another how intolerant each is. Thank you slashdot for another amusing idealogical flame war.
First: Correlation doesn't imply causation.
Any organization: religion or otherwise can be taken as the mean of actions. To try and blame religion for the crusades, torture, etc at the time is statistically irrelivant. Those tactics were used with the same impunity by non-religious organizations at the time. The Dutch trading companies, merchant leagues, feudal lords, etc.
The capacity for evil is universal in humans. The very fact people can throw out secular versus non-secular violence simply states a fact that violence has little to do with and one particular idealogy. People kill in the name of XYZ because it is a source of justification. No different the killing in the name of greed, pride, honor, land, food, etc.
Crusades religious? That is nonsense. The holy roman empire was just that an empire. No different then Rome. When Ole' Rome invaded and took out the Goths was that a Holy War by Zeus or Jupiter? It's a war over land the "backing" is irrelivant. France's revolution was a secular vs religious blood bath. Athiests, Agnostics, Religious, and other idealogical classifications are statistically insignificant regressors when it comes to the analysis of violence.
Islam is statistically no more violent then Christianity or Aethiests. The lead indicators in violence is education and poverty levels. After that comes access to fresh water and crop land.
The crusades was a land grab. No different with the Moorish invasion. The "decorations" of war no different. Any organization\idealogy will attempt to grow it's power and supress dissent. It's human nature. Democrats, Republicans, Masons, Boy Scouts, your local Sigbap, Eve Corp, or WoW guild all have the same basic behaviors. Violence, war, indoctrination, etc are common behaviors.
It's just a statistical echo that religious organizations were successful enough organizations to escalate to that level of control. e.g. It's not the fact they are religions but rather the fact they were successsful control structures (Which mind you most governement models are based from.) President = Pope, Congress of Cardinals = Senate, etc.
So go ahead and butt intolerant heads but I hate to break it to both sides, is because human behavior, not a particular belief structure. God didn't invent the atom bomb, scientists, people, humans did. The only thing I see is a world in which people love to blame "the other side" for the problems rather then realize the reasons for our darkest side is universal. Evil is universal, it's just easier to try and subscribe a demographic to it rather then deal with the real root causes.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-