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Israel's Supreme Court Says Yes To Internet Anonymity
jonklinger writes "The Israeli Supreme Court ruled this week that there is no civil procedure to reveal the identity of users behind an IP address, and that until such procedure shall be legislated, all internet postings, even tortious, may remain anonymous. The 69-page decision acknowledges the right to privacy and makes internet anonymity de facto a constitutional right in Israel. Justice Rivlin noted that revealing a person behind an IP address is 'an attempt to harness, prior to a legal proceeding, the justice system and a third party in order to conduct an inquiry which will lead to the revealing of a person committing a tort so that a civil suit could be filed against him.'"
Ok. Let me get this straight. Israel, one of the most right wing western countries has explicitly approved internet privacy, while France, one of the most left wing western countries, is actively trying to put the internet genies back in the bottle.
Maybe my political analysis toolset needs to move out of the 20th century....
May the Maths Be with you!
Seriously? Talk about flame bait. All the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map several times, and continue to espouse the total destruction and death to every last Israeli.
Seriously... if you lived with those kinds of neighbors, you'd be a bit cranky as well.
If Israel was more like it's neighbors, the media would be controlled and all the locals would be driven out, like has happened to most of all the jews in Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Eqypt, etc, etc, etc.
Stick to the topic.
Kudos to Israel for respecting privacy rights.
Is there a good argument to cover even tortuous actions under this? I'm for a free Internet, but defamation on the Internet is still defamation (for example).
Of course, an anonymous source who defamed someone else could be judged by society; (if you're not willing to sign your name then why should we trust you?). That said, there's a strong argument for a defamation plaintiff that even if the defamer is anonymous he or she is still subject to the harm from an anonymous person's defamation.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
The Israeli Supreme Court ruled this week that there is no civil procedure to reveal the identity of users behind an IP address, and that until such procedure shall be legislated, all internet postings, even torturous, may remain anonymous.
The occasional posting may well be tortuous, but the vast majority of postings on the Internet are torturous. Check out MySpace and Facebook to see what I mean.
No. Tortuous.
so true.
Israel, not Turkey, deserves to be a member of the European Union (EU).
The Turks have long attacked human rights. In Turkey, suppressing free speech on and off the Internet is almost a national sport. You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
After a Congressional committee approved a resolution ascribing responsibility for the genocide to the Turks, the Turks withdrew their ambassador from the USA.
This sort of behavior is not what we Westerners want to see in the European Union. The Israelis act more like Europeans than the Turks and deserve EU membership far more than the Turks.
Internet Anonymity may not be a constitutional right, since Israel has no constitution.
It is the universe that makes fun of us all.
Israel was started with a clean slate, the backing of the United States and one of the world's largest immigrant populations who were already used to a certain sense of liberty in society; however it is not doing nearly as well as other countries in the EU in respecting human and civil rights. This is not just about apartheid in Palestine, religious courts or the numerous violations of the Geneva convention Israel has committed over the years but goes to the heart and soul of the government of Israel and its current majority Jewish population, " What happens when Jews are the minority in Israel? " This is going to happen sooner than later and from the past acts against the Israeli religious minorities esp the Muslims it looks like they will do everything in their power to ensure that the country is always run by Jewish laws, customs and politics. That is not a democracy, that is a theocracy. The only way you can do that is through the denial of civil rights, esp the right to participate fully in an openly democratic process and look, that is exactly what is happening .
Turkey for better or worse is one of the most progressive Muslim majority states in the region and has a per capita GDP less than 1/5th that of Israel. Yes they have atrocious history and current operations against minorities as well that they have to account for, but I have far higher hopes that eventually Turkey will admit Genocide than Israel in my lifetime to admit its own mistakes and stop oppressing its own minorities.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I love how every article that mentions Israel, even if only mentioning the worlds largest bowl of hummus or something; is directly derailed to a political discussion.
Oh, really? Which history books have you been reading? Have you ever visited the parts of Jaffa and Jerusalem (to name but two places) where Arab properties were stolen? Have you visited agricultural areas where land was simply grabbed from Arab farmers who had owned and worked it for many generations? A clean slate indeed!
"Perhaps everyone hates them for a reason?"
And following your logic, perhaps the Nazis killed them for a reason, right? Yeah, it's called antisemitism and stupidity. It's found on both the far left and far right, both in great abundance.
Civil procedure only matters in judicial proceedings. When the government acts extrajudicially, civil procedure has no scope.
Yeh, it's fully justifiable to commit war crimes...
Preserving rights for their own country while destroying the lives of the Palestinians, sounds like the same rhetoric we've always heard. From what I can gather, the Israelis themselves are getting kind of fed up with this bullshit.
FYI, it is on topic - can't praise someone's steps forward without discussing their steps backward.
Whatever. Cut off our aid so that they can do what they'd like, and we won't have to care.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
And following your logic, perhaps the Nazis killed them for a reason, right? Yeah, it's called antisemitism and stupidity. It's found on both the far left and far right, both in great abundance.
Not stupidity. Real reasons. But, you are right to say that doing something as drastic as mass extinction is evil. However, you people who use the holocaust and anti-semitism to shield Israel from criticism are the stupid ones. There are reasons to criticise, maybe hate is a little strong, but I can say that easily because I don't live in the Iron Cage.
Isreali file sharing proxy service here I come! :)
The government was started with a clean slate, not the other political situations which abound from the illegal appropriation of Arab and Palestinian land. Their government was allowed to grow and mature under the auspices of cooperation ensured by the international community, esp Britain, France and the US. Even if Israel itself was breaking the law from day one, it felt almost no repercussions for it politically with the west. Its military strength bolstered by cold war paranoia is still unmatched in the region but it is quickly losing its ability to act against international law without at least diplomatic problems developing.
It will be a long time before Israel answers for what is has done, but let us hope that enough of those people who committed the crimes will be alive to be prosecuted for them.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Uh seriously? Can we please mention Israel without getting into a Zionists vs Hamas flame war?
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
"...antisemitism..."
Their neighbors are semitic, you idiot.
They weren't trying to kill Israelis. There really is a difference.
Of course, Hitler would no doubt have targeted Israel had it existed at the time, but you need to stop with the Godwinism, because a, say, '30s-era Krakow optician had little in common with any Israeli you're ever likely to meet.
Example: I have many Jewish friends, which is hardly surprisingly, since I too am Jewish. But I have very few Israeli friends. The reason? Because I've met few Israelis I care to be associated with. The majority of non-extremist Jews probably share a similar view.
Interestingly - at least, I think so - I and many other Jews have Muslim friends. Jews and Muslims have much in common, and we get along rather well, generally speaking, but the same cannot be said about Israelis and Muslims, unless you include the fact that they are vying for the same dirt.
Too many Israelis, all of them really, roll out the Nazis, and the Holocaust, and all of those other terribly emotive images whenever they or their motives and behavior is questioned or challenged, but the truth is that Israelis are their own worst enemies.
Now watch the mods spill their crack as they scramble to consign my post to the oblivion of -1 land, because we all know that Israel is sacred.
posting to undo mod - my hand slipped from insightful to redundant (skutz!). Sorry bout that ;-)
Seriously. Read the entire history of Israel, not just the propaganda that you learned in Sunday School, and in the mostly biased United States media outlets.
Israel has the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights. They've proved that repeatedly.
GP's irony is on target.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
You should get your history right. When Israel was given the authority from the UN to declare independence, which was followed by a deceleration of war from the surrounding Arab countries that did not like the idea; many native Arabs fled to said countries from fear of the outcome. Many places in Israel, including Jerusalem, Jaffa and Akko have mixed populations that live together in harmony to this day.
It is the universe that makes fun of us all.
All the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map several times, and continue to espouse the total destruction and death to every last Israeli.
It's hilarious this got modded insightful. Can you name the specific times "all the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map"? Please don't embarrass yourself and say the 1967 war. Israel started that war, and it takes 30 seconds of googling to see their own leaders at the time admit it was not a "defensive attack". They attacked because they wanted "Judea and Sumeria" which they consider theirs based on some God or other "giving" it to them. They also wanted a security buffer against the people whose land they had ethnically cleansed (though I will admit they did so with a minimum of bloodshed).
Furthermore, nobody has espoused the total destruction or genocide of the Israeli people, at least nobody with any power. Even Ahmadeenanutjob didn't do so, he's called for the destruction of the "Zionist regime", meaning the theocracy and near-apartheid government that currently runs Israel.
Arab countries that did not like the idea; many native Arabs fled to said countries from fear of the outcome.
You don't actually believe that, do you? Seriously? You're buying the "Oh, they left of their own will!" bit? I guess that's marginally less asinine than the "Oh, they left because the Arab powers around them someone communicated to a bunch of backwards villagers dispersed in the area that they should leave as part of some big Arab plot!".
Do they give you guys little booklets with this claptrap? I assume you have the Mark Twain quote ready and will claim there wasn't actually anyone on the land when the Israelis came, right? Or maybe you'll helpfully claim they were really Jordanian...Syrian...some kind of Araby people and just came to Israel _after_ the brave colonists improved the land?
These lies really do get tiresome. It's the Internet age, anyone who really cares can spend a nice afternoon browsing the web and see what really happened in Israel.
My dear naive fried. I think you must *really* be in Israel to see what *really* happens in Israel; not on the internet. If you trust everything you read on the Internet, you really must be a gullible person. The fact is that they did not all flee. Some fought, some fled and some embraced the decision. The majority that fled the country became refugees with the exact same position they have now, only in Jordan; that is until the Jordanians got sick of them and kicked them back here.
It is the universe that makes fun of us all.
friend*
It is the universe that makes fun of us all.
If only they could find a way to avoid treating a significant portion of their population like a leper colony...
It's amazing how you talk about "Israel" as if it's one living entity with emotions and prejudices. Do you think that all the Arabs in Israel and in the Knesset feel that way about non-Jews too? Can you point to laws on the books that show such "utter contempt"? Can you tell me why so many Jews were forced out of their homes in Gaza and their land taken and given to Arabs, if Israel hates non-Jews so much?
FYI: Pretending to site "history" doesn't make your racism and ignorance any less obvious.
I agree that Jaffa, Akko and parts of Jerusalem have harmonious mixed populations. And, yes, some Arabs who fled the country after the declaration of the state of Isreal did leave properties empty. But there are so many cases of blatantly illegal land-grabs and quasi-legal evictions that they will be a permanent stain on Israel's reputation.
I've been there multiple times, not that it helps in figuring out history. I think probably Zionists hate the Internet. If not for the Internet, we'd all think that the brave Israelis came and developed the land (which was empty, of course), and then neighboring hordes of antisemitic Arabs came and attacked them. Then the brave Israelis fought them off and reluctantly held onto the land for security reasons.
You can play the "oh you poor soul, reading the Internet, what does it know!" card all you like. The fact remains that much of the useful information on the Internet comes from other forms of documentation and proof.
The area was ethnically cleansed. They tried to be nice where possible (the world was watching), so bought as much of the land as they could. Then they intimidated where possible. Then they forced people off the land if they could. Then they burnt villages. Then they launched a war (1967, which they started and which documentary evidence proves was not a 'defensive' attack). In the end, a piece of land which had been majority Arab was turned in a very short time into majority Jewish.
Your own leaders at the time, incoluding Begin, Ben Gurion, Dayan, etc.. all had big mouths. They might have thought "the victor writes the history" but unfortunately for them we have the Internet now.
I'll leave you with this choice quote from Moshe Dayan
I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plough someplace where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was.
As an EU citizen who does follow politics, I'm embarrassed to notice that Israelis could be interested in membership considering how often our media criticizes Israel (IMHO too much). But your post made me do some googling and evidently Israelis have a much more positive attitude towards the EU than I had expected and indeed have expressed some interest in joining. Now, I consider Turkish membership still very, very distant and Israel much more suited to join but don't see that happening any time soon either. At the moment Turkey seems to be much more eager, though, since they're so willing to dance to the EU's pipe, which of course is good for human rights there.
However, what I do wonder is what would happen to US-Israel relations if Israel were to become a member. Especially since the EU is moving towards a common foreign policy and Israel's actions seems to be one of the main issues that the US and the EU have disagreements about and usually the EU has a gripe with how much the US sides with Israel. However, if Israel were to become a member state they would both formally and in practice (through intensified trade ties) be much more within the EU's sphere of influence (although also able to influence the EU more as a member state but one member state is still just one member state). It wouldn't surprise me if the US would try to exert pressure on Israel not to join the EU whilst the question for Israel would be how their national security would be affected, if the EU on the one hand would have more of a say yet on the other also be more interested in ensuring it. As we've recently observed, since the EU economies depend on each other, Greece is getting exorbitant help from other member states since it's in their interests to assist and similarly, regional instability would affect the Israeli economy and thus it would be much more in the EU's interests to help but the question is how since whilst you can use money to make an economy recover, money might not be a working solution, if neighbouring countries become too hostile. So the question of Israeli EU membership is quite fascinating and there's a lot of room for speculation. Especially wrt. to US interests.
From a pragmatic point of view there's still the question of much more freedom for EU citizens to live and travel in other member states and I suspect that the Israelis wouldn't approve of how EU member states grant citizenship to people with suspicious backgrounds and that such individuals then as EU citizens would have more freedom in Israel as well.
You have got to be joking. _Israel_ benefited from cold war paranoia? Compared to _Turkey_? Not to mention the Arabs and the Soviets, which alowed them to attack Israel at all...
Pray tell me where lies all this documented proof of Israel invoking all the wars through-out history (and I don't mean Zionism-controls-world conspiracies).
It is the universe that makes fun of us all.
Is it actually impossible to post a story with the word "Israel" in it without derailing the whole thing into a political debate full of uninformed opinions?
If this was about any other country the comments would be about privacy and the usual stuff instead of this absurd "ISRAEL IS OPRESSING THOSE POOR TERRORISTS" "WELL YOU'RE ANTISIMITIC HERP DERP"
Even I'm doing it. Bah.
Not to mention using the word paranoia for the Cold War is incredibly offensive to also East Europeans.
Don't worry just fixed that for you ... o shit...
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
Try November 1947, before the state of Israel was even founded, to mid 1949. On the day the state was founded, all countries in the region declared war on it: Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, and invaded.
Also Ahmadeenjahd can go on all he wants about the theocracy in Israel, they choose their government through democratic votes, unlike the Ayatolla regime in Iran. As far as apartheid goes, please do look at the number of Israeli Arabs, and at their lifestyle. Note how many percent of the students at universities are arab.
He works for the FBI. You know how they have to work strange words into conversation to signal the A-OK for the SWAT assault? Someone creating the code word had a sense of humor.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Good thing they did it with the agreement of the United Nation, don't you think?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
Seriously. Read the entire history of Israel, not just the propaganda that you learned in Sunday School, and in the mostly biased United States media outlets. Israel has the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights. They've proved that repeatedly. GP's irony is on target.
Seriously. Get out of your cave and look at some of the current news. If by "Israel" you mean the government then I can find quite a few examples disproving your statement. A nation with utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life probably wouldn't send a response team to Haiti, which isn't exactly known for it's thriving Jewish poplulation, accept and provide aid to Somali refugees or send relief units to Kenya. How many other western countries have done that? And if by "Israel" you mean the population then you just made a gross over-generalization. I live in Israel and neither my friends nor myself have an "utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights". Quite the opposite actually. You accuse the OP of listening to biased news outlets, but it seems as if you prefer to extrapolate from your narrow understanding of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to Israel's view of the entire world. Wow.
unmod
You're one very misinformed person.
Irrelevant. It was invented with a specific meaning - hatred of Jews (basically a bad translation of German "Judenhass"). Modern words don't always mean what's literally implied by breaking them down into their Latin/Greek components.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Israel deserves EU? Yeah maybe, but does EU deserve Israel? I don't think so.
The Israeli high court is truly a beacon of democracy and considered relatively left-wing inside Israel.
It has quite a bit of opposition inside Israel.
In my opinion as an Israeli, it is often hated in Israel for upholding Israel's actual law (including those about preserving human dignity) even when it contradicts the right-wingers goals or sometimes even the interests of the Israeli state.
In 1967, Arab armies were holding offensive formations next to Israeli borders, so Israel had to build up a reserve force for defense.
Israel's economy couldn't sustain holding the reserves for so long, so eventually Israel decided it had to either call of the reserves (and risk being defenseless against the coming Arab attack) or perform a preemptive strike.
so what if the un gave permission?
not theirs to give - you ignorant fool
You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
Well, to be fair, in a few EU countries you can be arrested for saying that the Holocaust didn't happen.
Israel long lost any claim on morality. In your conflict you repeatedly used a superior military to kill children, women and innocents. A reply where you totally and completely fail to mention the existence of the atrocities you committed, is nothing more than propaganda from someone with a pitch dark soul. You, sir, and your upmodding fans of the dark side, are outrageous. Now go and illegally assassinate an opponent in another country with stolen identities. I know it makes you feel good about yourselves. You know, if two sides fight and killed each others babies, it's almost impossible to break out of. But just shut up instead of ignoring what you did and are doing, and loudly proclaiming your obligatory relief units. A loud mouth is the last thing I expect from a person like you. STFU. We don't like you. No one who's outside this conflict likes you. Israel is filled with creeps. And no, we're not picking sides. It is not mutually exclusive.
Well, I don't really know if Israeli's, would like to join EU. Sincerely, I don't believe it and I think they have much more in common with the united states (including the $3 billion per year military aid USA gives them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_military_relations#Military_aid). What I do know is that except for Berlusconi (and well, if you lived in EU, you would really know that when we talk about Berlusconi it actually means that not only we don't believe a word the guy says, but also that we don't really care about any opinion he might express or not), it would be quite hard to find someone here, both from the populace or from the political leaders that wants Israel in here.
EU is based in a sense of stability and respect for the neighbors that Israel simply doesn't have. I don't want to discuss their motives, cause I know that there are some very educated people here that are clearly pro Israel and can always twist anti-Israel opinions by giving some case in which is not true ... but the truth is that most of the times it's true. It's true that you treat the non Israeli population like garbage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisjordania#Annexation), it's true that you are constantly stealing property in Cisjordania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisjordania#Settlements_and_international_law), it's true that you impose a blockade to Gaza that is degrading their population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932010_blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip), it's true that you don't let the Palestinian authority sell the vast natural gas reserves they have in their shore line (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11680), it's true that when Israel was formed you committed genocide in several Arab villages during the night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre). Anyway.
Most of Europeans are anti-war, either cause we are apathetic or simply because we don't believe in it. And we are not accepting a country between us that has the attitude Israel has. For instance, just some days ago you used your ambassadors in France and UK to forge some passports in order for you to go in Dubai and kill some Hamas leader (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/7294046/Dubai-assassination-eight-British-passports-used-in-Hamas-killing.html) ... that shows very well the kind of lack of respect you have.
Also, that is one of the main reasons putting Turkey aside from entering the EU. The problem with Kurdistan is all but controlled ... and I don't mean controlled by force, I mean controlled by diplomacy.
> Please don't embarrass yourself and say the 1967 war. Israel started that war,
Israel was deliberately provoked into starting that war. I'm not saying Israel didn't want to fight the war. But the nations around them (Nasser's Egypt in particular) didn't want peace, either. It was very much a two-sided conflict.
Egypt and Israel seem to have found a way to live more or less at peace with one another now, but there are still other conflicts in the region. Two-sided conflicts. It's disingenuous to blame everything on Israel, when most of the nations in the region are unwilling to officially admit that Israel is even a country or has a right to *exist*.
I'm not saying Israel hasn't done anything unnecessarily provocative. They have. But the Arab-Israeli conflict is not all just about how unreasonable Israel is. There's plenty of blame to go around in the Middle East.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
"...antisemitism..."
Their neighbors are semitic, you idiot.
And the meaning of the word "antisemitism" isn't "being against Semites", you idiot. Natural language isn't math or computer languages. Live with it.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I hear the chief-constable in Dubai make many assessments and grand declarations of soon-to-come revelations regarding the assassination and Israel's involvement in it. Buy I have yet to see evidence and proof.
Many conspiracies give too much credit to the Mossad and Israel. Perhaps it's just easier to fear and make them the scape-goat instead of admitting that there are many international (and inner Arab-world) politics that have certain interests in these kinds of operations.
Sorry but certain members of the EU are a little bit wary about Nations attribute citizenship based on ethnicity and appropriate land that does not belong to them under reasons like Lebensraum - oh sorry, i mean potential for Israeli growth.
Israel long lost any claim on morality. In your conflict you repeatedly used a superior military to kill children, women and innocents.
If this reasoning were to be followed strictly, then all countries would have long lost any claim on morality by now, including mine. At least whatever Israel does is subject to close scrutiny both inside Israel and in the outside world. That can't be said for many neighboring countries, or at least only to a much lesser degree. Perhaps it's a little bit unfair to Israel, but I guess they have to cope with your prejudices.
Ezekiel 23:20
Where's your sense of justice? why are you applying patterns without thinking at all?
Turkey is a perpetrator trying to cover up a crime. When they arrest someone it's because they are closer to a tyrannical state than a democracy.
The holocaust has without a shade of a doubt happened, the Germans even took responsibility and admitted. Therefore, by denying its existence you should rightfully be arrested for antisemitism and racism.
Sigs are for the weak.
Israel, not Turkey, deserves to be a member of the European Union (EU).
The Turks have long attacked human rights. In Turkey, suppressing free speech on and off the Internet is almost a national sport. You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
After a Congressional committee approved a resolution ascribing responsibility for the genocide to the Turks, the Turks withdrew their ambassador from the USA.
This sort of behavior is not what we Westerners want to see in the European Union. The Israelis act more like Europeans than the Turks and deserve EU membership far more than the Turks.
So in Israel's case where the genocide is ongoing, it's somehow better, not worse, than a genocide that happened in the past?
See, I don't think antisemitism or racism should be arrestable offenses, or even illegal. Beating people up because you don't like their race should still be illegal, but that's just plain old assault. Freedom of thought and speech too important to simply ignore whenever it's convenient to do so.
Which makes a little bit more sense, even if it's just a last-ditch effort against human stupidity (i.e., those people disregarding all the evidence). By the same token, Turkey could have have a law against people saying that the Armenian genocide didn't happen. (OK, that's just a pipe dream. :))
Ezekiel 23:20
tortious: "having the nature of or involving a tort; wrongful"
I should have looked up "tort" as well, but I'm not in a recursive mood today.
Yes. In some countries, you can be arrested for saying that the Holocaust DIDN'T happen, when in fact it DID.
In Turkey you can be arrested for saying that the Turks were the cause of the Armenian genocide, when in fact they WERE.
Both are examples of suppressing unpopular speech, but one is an example of suppressing LIES and the other is an example of suppressing THE TRUTH.
Somebody needs to work on their critical thinking skills.
And that was a party political broadcast for the Zionist Party.
Get a grip. The occasional token nod to civility does not mean Israel (as a government and the people who support the actions of that government) are civilised or should be considered for inclusion in the EU. Israel should not be considered a potential EU member until they remove all their illegal settlements and physical barrier around their stolen land. If a country ever needed regime change, it's Israel. Why are we not invading to stop their ever-increasing encroachment beyond their assigned borders? Sanctions should be the initial action, of course, but I suspect the Israeli government are far too prideful to admit wrongdoing. He who wishes peace must prepare for war.
As an American. It's about time we all just came to the realization that we, as humans, hate each other. We are like one step away from Jacob's Ladder stuff here. Israelis hate Arabs, and vice versa. We get it. Man, do we get it. People need to start worrying about their own countries survival, and stop pouring wasted energy into the problems of nations that they either chose to leave for greener pastures, or are so far generationally removed that it has no real bearing on their lives today. I am of Grecian decent, but I really don't care what happens to their economy. That is a mess they made, and at some point my Great Grandma decided to get the fuck up out of there and come here, so if she were still alive, I assume she wouldn't care either. Natural disasters are a different story. Nobody should be that cold hearted. But problems that arise because people can't agree on something? Figure it out your damn selves, and if you are losing that much sleep over it, MOVE BACK and try to help. So I know this sounds like a crass argument, but deep down you know it's true. Start living in the now! Worry about where you live, not where you used to live. Because if it was so damn awesome you'd still be there. But if you choose to stay, then that's even better and I love you for it. We just need people to help get us out of the hole, rather than bitch about who put us there.
Anonymity is counter to governmental operations.
They are just trying to win government support today by looking like they care about their people, and will pull out a 'its for the children' event later to take it away, with a bunch of flag waving and applause by the people..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Instead of fighting about Israel, help me. I live in Israel but I can't find a girlfriend. I never had a serious relationship.
So.. is there any cute girl from here who would take me? I'm 34 years old.
-----
Offer not valid for: girls who are mentally unstable, fat girls, evil girls or smokers
hemi
Getting an order before a suit is filed is extraordinary and requires a commitment to the court to commence an action.
In York University v. Bell Canada Enterprises and Rogers Communications. York University successfully applied for a "Norwich Order", after committing to file suit.
[2009] O.J. No. 3689 (Courtesy of Lexis Nexis QuickLaw)
Application by York University for a Norwich order. The purpose of the order was to require the respondents Bell Canada Enterprises and Rogers Communications Inc. to disclose information necessary to obtain the identity of the anonymous author of allegedly defamatory e-mails and a web site posting. The information was necessary for York to identify the proper defendants in an action for libel and it would only be used for this limited purpose. [...]
HELD: Application allowed. York established a prima facie case of defamation and the claim appeared to be reasonable and was made in good faith. [...] The disclosure of the information was for the limited purpose of enabling York to commence litigation, if so advised.
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
Thoughts are not arrest-able... but actions are.
Clearly, if everyone were being "thought racist" then you wouldn't know racism even exists! but since racist often act upon their thoughts, you have a serious problem.
Sigs are for the weak.
You know, i personally don't give a shit if both sides make each other glow in the dark and turn that shithole into glass, but what pisses me off is you, me, and every single taxpayer in the US gets a bill for 23 grand to prop up Israel and that DOES piss me off.
And the truly sad fucking part? all that money is being taken out of our pockets by right wing bible thumpers because they think that "Jebus won't come back! PRAISE JEBUS!". Well to all those I have one thing to say...fuck you. If your God is so damned weak he can't win without the US military then he is a giant pussy and undeserving of the name God, alright? He doesn't need your overfed bible thumping ass draining my pockets to prop up a country that wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire. If God wants Jews in Israel then they'll stay, if not? They'll go. Quit acting like Jesus is the fucking Groundhog that if he pops his head out the hole and don't see Jews he'll hide for another thousands years.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Please, point me to your reasonably unbiased resources on the history of Israel. Cite some links to your historical documents, because you are making an exceptional claim that needs evidence. I mean, not just that one dude or a particular military general disregarded the lives of some civilians on the opposing side. But that the majority of citizens have the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights, and that the government has consistently reflected that, as you claim.
You can't. Because it's an obviously untrue statement.
You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
Well, to be fair, in a few EU countries you can be arrested for saying that the Holocaust didn't happen.
I happen to be Jewish. Even though saying that the Holocaust didn't happen is ignorant, inflammatory, and just plain wrong, the person who said it should have the right to say it. In my opinion, it just shows how ignorant that person is, since there is more than enough historical evidence and documentation to show the contrary. It's like saying that Jesus of Nazareth didn't exist. We all know he did exist, but we just don't agree with each other on whether or not his claims to be Hamashia (Messiah) are valid.
Let them talk. Give them enough rope, and they will hang themselves.
http://qumsiyeh.org/thecurrentuntenablesituation/
I remember, among other things, video and dicsussions of the Golan heights, in which Israeli soldiers drove around in jeeps, with loudspeakers blaring insults at the inhabitants. Stupid kids would come out and throw rocks at the jeeps, and the soldiers would fire back with small arms and machine guns.
Go ahead, google around, there are many many cases like that. You don't even have to visit "anti-semitic" sites to find the stories. The BBC carries them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2102081.stm
Bottom line, Israel, as a nation, places no value on the life of an Arab, or a Moslem. If Israel DID value the lives of Moslems and/or Arabs, they could have reached some kind of a compromise years ago, and found peace.
How 'bout those "settlements". One group or another of Israelis move in, bulldoze everything that belongs to Arabs, build their own village, fortify it, and presents a fait accompli to the world, "Hey, we have a village, and the presence of Arabs is prohibited. Arabs will be shot on sight!"
Granted, the government doesn't always "approve" of those settlements - but the government does little to nothing to discourage them.
Try the same thing here in the US. As much as we've abused the Native Americans over the last 500 years, today you WILL NOT get away with appropriating Indian lands.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
You assume that most people buy the premise that taking land after winning a battle during a shooting war requires a legal proceeding. There is no legal basis for such an argument. Laws are not a tool for deciding right from wrong. Laws are tools for deciding what's allowed and what's not allowed to be done while keeping a civil society. Once a war breaks out, the civil society no longer exists.
Looks, what's so hard to understand? Everyone hates Israel because they are evil. And everyone knows that Israel is evil because it's full of Jews. And everyone knows that Jews are evil because everyone hates them. No circular argument there. </sarcasm>
The Israelis, yet again, demonstrate that their nation is part of the West. Israel is a Western democracy that safeguards civil rights and, in general, human rights. Wafa Sultan, a prominent American of Syrian ancestry, correctly and firmly praises the achievements of the Israelis.
Israel, not Turkey, deserves to be a member of the European Union (EU).
The Turks have long attacked human rights. In Turkey, suppressing free speech on and off the Internet is almost a national sport. You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
After a Congressional committee approved a resolution ascribing responsibility for the genocide to the Turks, the Turks withdrew their ambassador from the USA.
This sort of behavior is not what we Westerners want to see in the European Union. The Israelis act more like Europeans than the Turks and deserve EU membership far more than the Turks.
ah ?!
Israel is a racist country which violets human rights and international law.
Our army top officers ordered solders to ignore our Bagats (which is the highest authority in our court system.) orders and to ignore the law.
As one that live in Israel I can say FUCK NO, my country doesn't deserve to even be called a democracy, my friends has been arrested for saying stuff like what I write to Israelis.
Where there are refugees, there is abandoned property. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were also extradited from Arab countries following the 1948 war, my father included. They left behind them property worth in excess of $1Bn, which was for the large part confiscated by the Arab governments. You might say that was stolen too, by your standards.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2102081.stm
There was clearly a tank crew that did something very terrible some 8 years ago, killing two children (and most likely not in a completely accidental incident).
That's awful and those people should be in jail.
But unfortunately for your inane argument, it has nothing to do with your original statement. At all. You could point to dozens of incidents in Afghanistan over the last few years where children have been killed by US soldiers. Some where accidental, some might have been less so. Only a couple have resulted in criminal convictions.
Can you then make the absurdly broad generalization "America doesn't value non-American lives"? Of course not. It's not true. Do Americans get more upset when Americans die than when foreigners die? Probably true, but it's true of almost any tribal, national or ethnic group on earth and your extension of that to an absurdity creates a straw man that's trivial to beat down.
Furthermore, you have now changed your original statement around, from referring to all non-Jews, to referring to "an Arab or a Moslem".
Finally, you cite the existence of settlements as evidence, when the majority of Israelis *oppose* the creation of new settlements in the West Bank. And in fact, 46% of Israelis oppose the expansion of settlements within East Jerusalem too (a more contentious issue than the West Bank settlements). Furthermore, since 2001 the majority of Israelis have supported the dismantling of most West Bank settlements in exchange for a peace agreement. See, for example, here for some recent poll results.
In short, presenting Israel as a monolithic entity with a single view on settlements or with a uniform view attributing no value to non-Jewish lives is absurd. You are wrong and you won't get anywhere in discussion with rational people until you tone down the nonsensical rhetoric.
I would have thought that most peoples understanding of the world comes from extrapolating from the little they have seen or heard about. When it comes to caves how do you explain the barbarity and 100 to 1 + kill ratios between the Palestinians and the Israelis and why should he not extrapolate from such barbarity that you hold non-Jews lives in contempt. In my any a growing proportion of the worlds view you are a barbaric little state that exports murder and is proud of its murders, evidence for this comes from the regularity with which Mosad murder squads are dispatched suggesting that you and the other Israelis do note vote out leaders who are commited to murder as a tool of state.
End apartheid now.
Do you even read your own shit? So your argument is:
1. Stupid scared 18 year old conscripted kids act like assholes while engaged in a prolonged cold and hot war with an enemy who's stated goal is to wipe them off the map. I have a link to prove it !!!
2. Government fails to act strongly against it's own citizenry while said citizenry are acting in their own best interest, and the interest of said government. Everyone knows the settlements are bad !!!!
3. Israel would never get away with oppressing the American Indian. Unrelated atrocities make my argument better !!!
4. Israel, as a nation, places no value on the life of an Arab, or a Moslem. QED.
Do you realize how stupid you sound?
If Moslems and/or Arabs DID value the lives of Israelis, they could have reached some kind of a compromise years ago, and found peace.
"That's awful and those people should be in jail."
Are they in jail? I don't think so. Why not? Because, of course, the Israeli government and the judicial system don't care enough about no Israeli lives to prosecute an Israeli "good ole boy".
Ahhhh, you ask, ""America doesn't value non-American lives"?"
The answer, of course, is both yes and no. We DON'T care, as a nation, for non-American lives, in general. On the other hand, we care enough to imprison our soldiers who commit crimes similar to what happened at the Golan heights.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/5293821/Former-US-soldier-guilty-of-rape-and-murder-of-Iraqi-girl.html
What of that? you might ask.
Well, the US has it's faults, and the US really doesn't value foreign lives as much as it probably ought to. But, quite obviously, Israel has a long way to go to catch up to our present deplorable state.
"In short, presenting Israel as a monolithic entity with a single view on settlements or with a uniform view attributing no value to non-Jewish lives is absurd."
The US is represented overseas by a single monolithic government, just as Israel and all other countries are. You will note that I have not stated that "every Israeli is a swine who places no value on any lives that aren't Jewish". I referred to the government. Of course the government does NOT represent every single point of view in Israel, any more than the government of the United States represents every single point of view in the US.
As for the aid sent to devastated areas outside of the mideast - we can view a lot of that just as we are forced to view a lot of United States' foreign aid: propaganda opportunities. The publicity surrounding rescue teams sent to disaster areas is very cheap, all things considered.
Call me a cynic. But, often enough, aid of any kind is intended to purchase certain results for the donor.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
No, but I do realize how pathetic you are to take my words, mix them around, and try to make me look absurd.
Israeli soldiers committed a war crime, and the crimes were not investigated by anyone other than the media. The soldiers weren't prosecuted or convicted. Nothing happened, period. That particular incident is NOT ISOLATED. At best, you might argue that such incidents are rare, but you can't even make a very convincing argument for that.
What's going on in Jerusalem today, with housing developments being built on Palestinian land? As usual, Israel cares little for the people who have a legitimate claim to that land, and sides with the Israelis who want to make a dollar.
But go ahead, make fun of stuff you don't understand.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
You know, I usually don't feed the troll, but seeing as you are not being modded down at the moment:
I live in Israel. Roughly 60% of the jewish population is completely secular. There are several parties in the current ruling coalition that are Religion-based, yes.
However:
1) The press here is free. Hell, it's so free that our citizens are getting somewhat tired from scandals being exposed.
2) There are "Arab" parties as well. They are represented in parliament according to the number of votes which they received.
3) I can - and often do - buy pork.
4) I can drive my car during Shabbas and have worked an unfortunate number of Saturdays. Almost all businesses are open 7 days a week.
5) I can convert to ANY religion I want and suffer no repercussions.
6) While we do study the bible (old testament) during our school years, we also study the theory of evolution (and believe you me, there is NO controversy here).
7) Our legal system is mostly based on British laws (due to their brief stay in power here).
You can disagree with current/past actions of the Israeli government (god knows I - and many other Israelis - do), but your attempt to paint Israel as a theocracy is either extremely naive or plain misleading.
So you're either an uninformed fool, or a propagandist asshole. Care to share which?
"can't run, can't hide...oh well, return 0"
Keep wasting mod points buddy, I got karma from hell! Notice you didn't dispute the facts, such as the MORE THAN 5 BILLION yes, with a b, that comes out of American taxpayer pockets to prop up Israel yearly.
I personally don't give a shit which side you are on, simply answer this if you can: Why the fuck should we bury ourselves deeper in debt to prop up ANY third world country? Maybe if we stopped pissing in everyone else's business and take care of our own problems then maybe...just maybe...we wouldn't have to keep pissing money down the drain on the giant blackhole that is the DoD budget. Ever think of that? But keep wasting points bud, I got allll day.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
LMAO (considering your sig ;-)
There is no apartheid in Israel. In Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, the Muslim Arabs are indeed trying to enforce apartheid, but that is hardly the fault of Israel.
In spite of the loud posturing of the Dubai authorities, no evidence whatever has been produced that al-Mabhouh was assassinated by Israel. Israel is certainly a likely candidate, but other Arab factions might equally well be responsible. In any case, if Israel did assassinate him, it was morally perfectly justifiable. He was a leader of a criminal organization, one that by its own admission engages in daily war crimes, whose stated purpose is genocide. He was known to have participated in acts of war against Israel including war crimes. He was a criminal and a combatant whose assassination was morally no less justifiable than Allied attempts to assassinate senior Nazis. There was no chance that Dubai would arrest him and extradite him. Whoever assassinated him deserves our thanks. If his assassination outrages Europeans, what that reflects is the lack of respect that Europeans have for fundamental human rights and international law when it comes to Jews.
As a 30 year Israeli, you sir are a LIAR
. A pitiful, hate-mongering LIAR.
I will say no more.
"can't run, can't hide...oh well, return 0"
If his assassination outrages Europeans, what that reflects is the lack of respect that Europeans have for fundamental human rights and international law when it comes to Jews.
Dear sir, we are not cowboys and this is not the far-west. In Europe we have this thing called Court of Law. There was no international arrest mandate for al-Mabhouh, and even if there was one, he was supposed to have a trial (call us old fashioned here in good ol' Europe, but we kind of believe that before assassinating people, they are kind of supposed to have a trial and check if the accusations against them stand in a court of law).
There are international arrest mandates for former Israeli ministers here in EU but that's strange, we don't see intentions here for going after the guy and murdering him: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/british-court-issued-arrest-warrant-for-livni/
I do know that is not something that country believes in so I understand that since you where not raised in a society that values legality, respect for human life and moral, you simply fail to see my point.
We were not discussing other countries. And thanks for your ad hominem "prejudice" remark. No, if they kill civilians and I note that, it's not prejudice. What a bore, that "argument". Too bad you did not have any counter point whatsoever. This and your troll modding buddies, we are not impressed by you folks supporting this state of terror any longer, wherever you are, you know that do you? It only makes you look worse and worse and worse, the aggressive reactions to critics which are always played to the man. You are a coward, just like your silent modding buddies. If you were anything remotely resembling a man of honor, go tell your argument to a civilian who lost his or her entire family because your side doesn't care about the collateral damage. Tell her she is prejudiced. The only bit of care I have left for Israel is that I pity them deeply for being so totally deformed by their war. FUBR. There is only hope for their children.
Instead of fighting about Israel, help me. I live in Israel but I can't find a girlfriend. I never had a serious relationship.
So.. is there any cute girl from here who would take me? I'm 34 years old.
-----
Offer not valid for: girls who are mentally unstable, fat girls, evil girls or smokers
Your problem is you're looking for girls on /. There aren't any girls on the internet, much less on slashdot. ;-) I'd recommend trying a matchmaking service in Israel.
illegal appropriation of Arab and Palestinian land
I guess you forgot the part where the Arab states ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations and stole from them land four times the size of Israel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands
For some reason the anti-Israel propaganda sites don't often mention that.
aie, all hail the Jews, for they are not hippies and certainly not nazis
beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
I made a post that was not particularly published, as it probably upset some peolple, but here we are again. There is nothing you can do, Israel deny the cloning of passports. Israel deny eveything like Merryl Lynch, Enron, and others in the US of A. I said in my last submitted story. Israel is evil, the war is escalating and it is only a matter of time before they get totally twated. We already expelled Senior Diplomats from the UK over fucking lies. Do I have to reiterate this or have the paost deleted all over again? Maybe because one of the staffers of slashdot is Jewish.
All cows eat grass!
Civil procedure matters when you use a judicial proceeding to take action against a government official for having acted extrajudicially in violation of law. I'm not familiar with the law of Israel, but examples from the United States include Doe v. AG lawsuits.
... Israeli government (god knows I - and many other Israelis - do), but your ...
It's God, you infidel!
Pesky internets with no facts at all; http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/israel-humiliates-biden-announces.html
look sig is kool
Mod me down, Israel fascist. You cannot touch my karma. Thank you for proving my points.
For people who agree with me and want these hypocrites to go to hell:
Stop buying products from Israel.
Vote with your wallet.
You - will - lose. And history will take care of you. How is it to live, knowing all you do will be futile and people will remember you with deep contempt and as an example of how people become evil?
Bye now, asswipes. Go kill a baby. I know it makes you feel good.