Slashdot Mirror


New Software For Employers To Monitor Facebook

An anonymous reader writes "The NY Times reports that a new service called Social Sentry has been released to monitor employees' Facebook and Twitter accounts for $2 to $8 per employee. The service also plans to support MySpace, YouTube and LinkedIn by this summer. 'Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, a research and advocacy group, called the automatic monitoring of social networking a "disaster," and predicted that it would lead to people being fired for online griping, the airing of political views and other innocuous conversation. There is a tendency to react to an off-color joke or complaint that appears online more harshly than to the same comment made in a cafeteria or company picnic.'"

67 of 342 comments (clear)

  1. Easy enough to avoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Don't use Facebook on company computers
    2. Keep your profile private
    3. Don't post work related topics on other user's profiles (they may not be private)

    1. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Yes
      2. Yes.
      3. Yeah, too bad non-work-related posts may be damaging as well. Your personal, non-work opinions and writings can get you into trouble at work, whether that's fair or not.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Easy enough to avoid by drachenstern · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the way this would work is that they monitor ALL your usage and so you get screwed when you're not at work and are griping.

      Nothing to do with being at work and using the services.

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    3. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      4) Have two names, one for work and one for home.

      (I learned this the hard way, since people called Archimedius Thrublepants-Kopovski aren't exactly common).

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Kamokazi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Don't use Facebook

      Why did you type all that extra text when you had the perfect solution from the beginning?

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    5. Re:Easy enough to avoid by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

      Holy crap, that's your name, TOO?

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    6. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Don't use Facebook

      Why did you type all that extra text when you had the perfect solution from the beginning?

      Because if you don't use Facebook, Bob will for you. You know Bob, the weasel who's looking at the same promotion you are? Yeah, that Bob. A profile picture of you from either linkedin or the company website, then add some pictures from Girls Gone Wild, etc. None of the ggw ones have to show you, just show that you hang around with a wild crowd. Then some photos of a KKK meeting, and "fan of Grand Wizard Cletus" for good measure. You might not get fired, but you're not getting promoted.

    7. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Albatrosses · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You used to, but they opened it up to everyone a couple years ago.

      I still think the best solution overall is to just not use Facebook at all :)

    8. Re:Easy enough to avoid by nine-times · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd feel like I was deceiving people. I always use my real, full legal name when doing things online and writing posts on social websites.

    9. Re:Easy enough to avoid by JLavezzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've never understood the appeal in social networking.

      It's the white-listed email system everyone was speculating we'd need when spam got too bad.

    10. Re:Easy enough to avoid by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even without someone posting slanderous FB profiles, I have had a large number of HR people ask me in job interviews about my Twitter/FB/MySpace accounts. In the past, when I told them that I didn't have one, I got looked at like I was completely insane. One interview actually got ended when the interviewer told me that I was a fossil and too behind the times to be part of their company because I didn't have accounts.

      So I created some dummy accounts. These days, I do use FB because it is a good tool for events, but I don't bother with any other social networking site.

    11. Re:Easy enough to avoid by Anachragnome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I entirely agree with you.

      From a security perspective, social networking appears (to me at least) to have more damage potential then having your identity stolen. You'd still have a job after someone cleaned out your bank accounts, but the stuff that people put on social networking sites will haunt them FOREVER.

      FOREVER.

      Finally got that 15 minutes of Fame? If so, expect every single thing attributable to you on the web to be instantly scrutinized by everyone with whatever motives, good or bad. The paparazzi-types will have a field day with what they find.

       

    12. Re:Easy enough to avoid by xaxa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At the risk of having my own "get off my lawn!" moment, I've never understood the appeal in social networking. Trust me, your life is not that interesting.

      Yours isn't interesting to me.

      But my friends' social life is -- it's often my social life too.

    13. Re:Easy enough to avoid by david_thornley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your life is not interesting to me.

      However, the lives of my friends and relatives in Arizona, California, South Carolina, Ohio, and New York are interesting to me, and since I live in Minnesota I don't often actually see these people.

      I'm not interested in making new friends with Facebook, but I do like keeping track of older ones.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    14. Re:Easy enough to avoid by vitaflo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One interview actually got ended when the interviewer told me that I was a fossil and too behind the times to be part of their company because I didn't have accounts.

      Whether you know it or not, this person did you a favor.

    15. Re:Easy enough to avoid by ajlisows · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Joe NotAnActualSpammer has just planted a fucking tree on his farm!"

      As of right now, my main Facebook page has exactly 1 item that I might be interested in....my brother in law posted some pictures he took on spring break. The rest is all kinds of nonsense. And that is with being selective about friend requests. I have 21 "Friends" (still probably too many) and 47 "Friend Requests". I can't imagine how much garbage would be on the page with 68 cabbage planting friends.

    16. Re:Easy enough to avoid by sbeckstead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trust me, your life is not
      Thank you for appointing yourself the great arbiter of what is and isn't interesting to my relatives and friends. I assume since you think our lives are uninteresting that yours is also bland and boring and yes uninteresting, I'll bet this chewing out is the most interesting thing to happen to you since birth. So until you actually become the arbiter if interest in my life I'll thank you to keep your opinions to yourself! Oh and by the way Slashdot qualifies as social networking, so for someone who doesn't understand the appeal you certainly do use it frequently.

    17. Re:Easy enough to avoid by chickenarise · · Score: 4, Informative

      Getting sick of Farmville notifications? Click the Hide button next to the notification then click the Hide Farmville button silly! Quit complaining about a problem you can solve with 2 clicks.

      --
      One convenient locations...in Africa.
    18. Re:Easy enough to avoid by ajlisows · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhhhhh. Ok, so I'm an idiot. I went plugging through the options one day to try to find a way to not display certain things. I assumed the "Hide" just meant to hide that one post.

      But still....My page now looks like "Relative A doesn't like being sick", "Person 1 commented on their own status", "Person 2 likes Person 3's status.", "I just won 1 Swagbuck" (Ok, something new to hide), "Relative B says it is going to be a Marvelous Monday.", ."Person 4 commented on PersonIDon'tKnow's album.", followed by 6 more "Commented on Status" posts. I can't hide those unless I hide the person.

      I'm sure it works out well for some people. For myself, even after knocking out the Farmville updates, it is just a wild mess of random clutter. When I open my Gmail account I see 23 messages without scrolling down at all. Of those 23, 16 of them are things that I have read/will read. Four of them are "You have a comment on Slashdot" alerts (I am going to shut those off), one is a receipt from an online order I placed, one is a weekly mailer from a discount electronics site (I glance at this about half the time), and one is a newsletter that I used to read but have not been lately. Considering the messages that ARE from real people contain actual useful content that I want/need to know, it is much more of a White Listed inbox for me than my Facebook account is.

  2. The airing of political views by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hey, people in the work place have to keep their mouths shut already about politics without Facebook.

  3. Good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never used any of those services. Everyone told me I needed to take my tinfoil hat off when I told them that this would eventually happen.

  4. What...no slashdot.org?! I'm outraged... by StickInTheMud94 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm outraged that slashdot.org monitoring is being left out of this! We must petition this company to include /. in the monitoring! That way we can feel safe in the knowledge that we must all bow down to our-Facebook-Myspace-LinkedIn-Twitter-/.-monitoring Overlords

  5. This seems a little overblown by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In particular it seems that this service is monitoring publicly available posts and also flagging how many of them happen during work hours. Considering employers are likely within their rights to monitor when their networks are used to make private posts, this doesn't really seem so bad.

    It might serve as a wake-up call to people who share too much publicly.

    1. Re:This seems a little overblown by vux984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Considering employers are likely within their rights to monitor when their networks are used to make private posts, this doesn't really seem so bad.

      Given how many of us own personal laptops, personal smart phones, and have personal wireless data plans, this doesn't really seem so bright either. I am also legally entitled to breaks from work.

      I'm actually all in favor of IT locking down and monitoring the corporate network to -protect the corporate network-. However, attempting to monitor or restrict the corporate network as a measure to control employee behaviour and/or productivity however is doomed to failure.

      If the employee has a blackberry and a 15 minute break, who is management to tell them they can't update their facebook page. (Sure there are perhaps a few isolated work environments where it would be reasonable to prevent the employee. But the VAST majority of jobs out there... it just wouldn't be realistic to even attempt to enforce such a policy.

    2. Re:This seems a little overblown by exhilaration · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It might serve as a wake-up call to people who share too much publicly.

      So I'm a software developer, in my early 30's, pretty tech-savy. It took me about 45 minutes (a long time, I think) digging around Facebook's privacy settings to properly hide everything. Not only do you have to go under "Privacy", but also "Application Settings" - would the average user know to do that? Apparently "Group" privacy settings are under applications??? Those settings are complicated And even now I can't hide 1) my friends list from the public 2) my pages from the public. So my point is it's hard to NOT share too much publicly with Facebook.

    3. Re:This seems a little overblown by grahamsz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well you are posting on slashdot during normal work hours in the US, so there's a good chance you already know the answer to that question.

      Most employers i've had have a fairly reasonable policy on that stuff. I'll post when i'm waiting on builds or during my lunch break, or sometimes when i'm just pissed off and need to "walk away" for a bit.

      Your public activities outside of work have always been fair game. If I wrote a letter to the local newspaper slamming my employer then I'd fully expect that to come back to me, why should a blog post about it be any different?

  6. FTFA by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Social Sentry draws only on publicly posted information on Facebook and Twitter;"

    Talk about a cash cow. Trolling public information that may or may not be your employee is risky (duplicate names). Perhaps this will remind folks that use social networks to set their security settings up is a good thing.

    --
    There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
  7. Re:Jeebus - just block facebook, it's not that har by dancingmilk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Communications manager who uses Facebook for the company's Facebook group.

    There's a reason for you. One of many in my place of work. Facebook access is blocked for the average drone, but there are a few folks that have reasons to use it for work purposes.

  8. Re:Jeebus - just block facebook, it's not that har by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    This isn't about monitoring people facebooking at work, it's about monitoring facebook profiles around the clock to check up on your employees' personal lives and rants.

  9. I would like to know by tist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As an employer, I would be quite happy to know how much time is being wasted by employees on social networking sites. Of course keeping up with current events (Suff that matters) would not be included. The comments my employees make are public and I have the same right to see them as anyone. In addition, the time and resources they spend on personal items while getting paid by me is no less than stealing.

    1. Re:I would like to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hire better people. If you have to be concerned about this you need 1) a good web filter or 2) a new job because you can't manage.

    2. Re:I would like to know by SirGarlon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the time and resources they spend on personal items while getting paid by me is no less than stealing

      If they're assembly-line workers, then probably yes. If they fall in the "knowledge" category, then I disagree in principle. To expect a human to mentally function at top efficiency without breaks and diversions is not reasonable. So, if you are the kind of employer who has hourly-wage employees with scheduled breaks, then you have a right to complain if your workers are slacking off on the clock. If not, then I think you are shooting yourself in the foot with a policy that equates employees taking a necessary 10-minute break every 2 hours with "stealing."

      Obviously, if their personal activities are interfering with their productivity then that is another matter. I think you should evaluate your employees on productivity and overall quality of work, not on whether they keep their noses to the grindstone all day, every day.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    3. Re:I would like to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >the time and resources they spend on personal items while getting paid by me is no less than stealing.

      On the other hand, you like to steal your employees' time by not paying them overtime?

  10. Reacting harshly? by fprefect · · Score: 2

    "There is a tendency to react to an off-color joke or complaint that appears online more harshly than to the same comment made in a cafeteria or company picnic"

    Of course, because such as comment isn't a one-off thing in close company, but posted for everyone to see until it is removed -- rather like a sign hung from the break-room bulletin board.

    --
    Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
  11. and I am outraged by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Funny

    that they won't be monitoring the mygoatse site, where we all expose our, uh, management potential...

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  12. 'Learning" Social Networking by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Prior to Facebook, social networking sites were pretty much utilized only by the "geeks" of society. Now, with Facebook, everyone and their mom and their grandma has a page. With this flood of people unaccustomed to "life on the internet", people are learning how to conduct themselves on social networking sites all over again. Not only are the non-geeks learning how all this techno-babble works - geeks are also learning how the new social networking environment works. For example, prior to Facebook, on other sites (LiveJournal, for example), my contacts understood that what I said there was to remain there. They were virtual conversations with my friends. Now, however, I'm realizing that the people I have on Facebook do not have that innate understanding of "how it works." Things I say on Facebook, just as a venue to vent, become an issue. I'm being forced to re-evaluate how a social networking site "works" because of all the people who are now using it who just don't understand how it _should_ work.

    All of this is to say that it's a very dangerous time to be active on a social networking site. _YOU_ may understand how it all works. Your _FRIENDS_ may understand that you're just venting about a shitty day at work or whatever. Can you be certain your MOM or your BOSS similarly understands these things?...

    1. Re:'Learning" Social Networking by Skyshadow · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Social media has a nasty learning curve when it comes to the workplace. This has always been the case in any forum where your electronic musings are available to anyone who cares to look, or even in areas where having some jerk forward a message to the wrong person.

      I remember back when I was an intern at SGI, there was a big hullabaloo over the "bad attitude" newsgroup -- this was a newsgroup set up with the idea that people who had a forum to bitch about the company would be overall happier workers. In concept it was a pretty good idea. In practice, it even worked out fairly well; it created a community where people could actually get things fixed or at least have others tell them that the little issue they were overfocused on weren't such a big deal.

      Of course, the regular users were people who didn't think what would happen once the bottom-feeding lawyers got ahold of it (as they did when Microsoft subpoena'ed Netscape's offshoot of BA) and then the predictable reactions of the HR drones (HR people being, by definition, the bottom 1% of humanity -- right below baby rapists). Management invented all sorts of reasons to go ahead and fire the more active participants despite the fact that the forum had been more or less sanctioned by the company in the first place.

      Of course, that being SGI around 1999/2000, the people who got canned over BA were just a few months ahead of most of the rest of the company, but you take my meaning.

      So if there's any difference between us and them, it's that more of us have seen how this works by now..

      --
      Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    2. Re:'Learning" Social Networking by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You seem to have forgotten MySpace.

      Lucky bastard!

  13. Perhaps they'll release their customer list by russotto · · Score: 2, Funny

    If we know which companies subscribe to the service, we have new additions to the list of companies to avoid working for.

  14. Hardly enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's hardly enough. Suppose you're an American who holds Democratic views. Your superiors happen to be hardcore Republicans (the fucking crazy kind).

    They're monitoring your social media profiles, and see that you've joined Facebook groups supporting health care reform, joined some groups opposing the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, you've made some comments suggesting you think it's fine for homosexuals to marry and adopt children, and you once twittered a pro-abortion news article link.

    Now, they wouldn't have known this about you otherwise. But now they do know. Even if they don't fire you outright, they'll treat you differently, for sure. Maybe they won't trust you. Maybe they won't give you tasks that would allow you to further your career. After all, they probably don't like you any more, just because some political views you expressed differ from theirs.

    All that can happen without you using your account at work, without you discussing work-related matters, and even if you keep your profile "private" (which for Facebook these days seems to mean it's open to just about anyone...).

    1. Re:Hardly enough. by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, the founding fathers kept slaves, and thought that was just dandy so yeah, holding the same views as 18th century folks in the 21st century does make you fucking crazy

      --
      The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
    2. Re:Hardly enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      WARNING! REPUBLICAN ALERT! REPUBLICAN ALERT! REPUBLICAN ALERT! WARNING!

      A WARNING TO ALL MEN: Protect your bumholes! There are Republicans out and about! Do not enter airport washrooms. Do not enter churches. Be on the alert for unprovoked sodomy. Keep your pants on at all times.

      A WARNING TO ALL WOMEN: Stay away from coat hangers, especially if pregnant. Hanging up clothes may be mistaken to be an abortion in progress.

      A WARNING TO ALL CHILDREN: Keep all science and math textbooks hidden, especially science texts that delve into evolution. Wrapping such books in a fake Bible cover is recommended.

    3. Re:Hardly enough. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Perhaps you should actually learn about our founding fathers views on slavery before you condemn them.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    4. Re:Hardly enough. by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Perhaps you should actually learn about our founding fathers views [wikipedia.org] on slavery before you condemn them."

      Did you even read the article you linked to?
      "According to historian Stephen Ambrose: "Jefferson, like all slaveholders and many other white members of American society, regarded Negroes as inferior, childlike, untrustworthy and, of course, as property. Jefferson, the genius of politics, could see no way for African Americans to live in society as free people.""

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    5. Re:Hardly enough. by twidarkling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How's that a strawman? The GGP said "The exact same views." The GP pointed out a view that the founding fathers had, and pointed out how that exact view is no longer universally acceptable. That immediately destroys credibility, since you can't hold *all* the *exact* same views, unless you're down with slavery.

      Further, anyone who thinks the constitution is a dead document, never to be altered or changed is a fucking moron, in my books. The founding fathers never could have conceived of the world we live in today, nor of what would become hotly contested issues, and so never addressed it in the document. To hold today's world to a piece of paper that was never meant to address the state of current society is narrow-minded and specious at best.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    6. Re:Hardly enough. by Capt_Morgan · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you think the current regime is "socialist" you need to repeat high school Both R's and D's are center-right economically and both are very authoritarian

      --
      It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
    7. Re:Hardly enough. by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the farce of "at-will" employment. You're not really free when expressing your political opinions outside of work could cause you to lose your job.

      So what do you purpose to replace "at-will" employment?

      You're not really free when expressing your political opinions outside of work could cause you to lose your job.

      So if you found out one of your employees was a member of the KKK, you'd keep him on the payroll?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Hardly enough. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because both Democrats and Repblicans are facsists. They're trying to get bigger and control what you're doing.

      See, I'm a conservative. I think the role of government should be as little as possible -- provide services that are otherwise impossible, like a military force, roads, water / sewer, police, fire, etc. There isn't a party out there that agrees with my views. I'd like to think that my views are widely held, but as my friend say, "hmm, I seem to be the only one who thinks sandwiches should be made out of brick".

      The response to things like abortion, gun control, DRM, and gay marriage shouldn't be "we'll make it legal" but "that's not the role of the government". So am I pro-free-market? No. Again, there are things that require regulation for public safety. Between informed consenting adults, then there should be no limits as to what they can do. If I'm not informed about your water distribution's quality, then I can't be informed and consenting.

      I'm neither left nor right wing, nor am I centrist. I don't fall into any category, and I'm just disillusioned with any of the options. And hell, I live in Canada where we've got 5 or more mainstream parties to vote for. You guys are fucked.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    9. Re:Hardly enough. by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The founding fathers never could have conceived of the world we live in today, nor of what would become hotly contested issues, and so never addressed it in the document.

      Once, while I was advocating the government taking a greater role in regulating the Internet (in terms of infrastructure, i.e. Verizon, not in terms of content), a Republican relative of mine complained, "If the founding fathers wanted the federal government regulating the Internet, they would have put it in the Constitution!"

      I literally face-palmed on that one. When I reminded him that they didn't really know about the Internet in the early 19th century, he said something like, "Well they didn't say anything about cars or telephones either!" Double face-palm.

      Finally I pointed out that the most advanced technology that they would have had at the time was someone carrying a handwritten letter by horseback, and that the Constitution had specifically given the government the power to get involved in those kinds of communications. Essentially, the Constitution gave the government the power to build the most advanced communication and transportation infrastructure available at the time: to hire people to carry letters all over the country and even build a network of roads for them to travel over. He didn't believe me, and asked, "Ok smart guy. If the government was allowed to do that, why didn't they ever do it?" I would have tripple face-palmed if I had three hands.

    10. Re:Hardly enough. by Thiez · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, if only there was a "+1, Flamebait that made me giggle" option...

    11. Re:Hardly enough. by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I heard a historian discuss that very topic, and he said there was really no excuse for Jefferson to hold those views. In his day, there were already black and indian intellectuals, and Jefferson went to great length to try to explain why the black intellectuals weren't really that impressive (although he seemed to like the indians). Not to mention his lover and children were very likely black. But then, men don't always respect their lovers, either.

      I don't take this to mean that Jefferson was a horrible person, he was heroic in some ways, but in other ways a bigot and a coward. This is OK, and it should give us hope, because all of us have a bad side, all of us have weaknesses, and yet this does not preclude us from being heros in our own way. Everyone has a heroic side, too.

      --
      Qxe4
    12. Re:Hardly enough. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Libertarians assume there are no sociopaths -- a faulty assumption made also by democratic philosphies.

      The problem is that some people, and some corporations, will act without regard for the safety of others. Thus, a government representing the people must be in force -- and must be a powerful force -- that protects people from harm by the malicious. However, against normal citizens the government should have no power. It's hard to describe exactly as I've only had the general idea for a week or so. Give me some time to let it ripen a bit. ;)

      As for multiple parties, only 33% of the population voted for Scowl Harper, so it's a double-edged sword.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    13. Re:Hardly enough. by s73v3r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nobody has ever said its "Free Healthcare for All". Even the post you're replying to says that it comes out with his taxes. The only difference is that he doesn't have out of pocket expenses for most things, and he doesn't have to worry about his financial future when something happens.

    14. Re:Hardly enough. by The+Yuckinator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong..) that:

      1) You would rather not be taxed for a single-payer healthcare system because you don't want to have to pay for other people's medical needs, except horribly-diseased children. You would prefer to pay for your own medical costs and wish everyone else would do the same.

      2) "One price for everyone, insured or not" isn't what happens in a single-payer system.

      3) Some procedures such as sex changes, boob jobs or granny hips shouldn't be covered in a single-payer system.

      This is the easiest format I could think of to reply with any sort of coherence:

      1) I'm not even sure what to say here. A friend of mine (Canadian) had a pneumothorax while in Buffalo at a concert. She didn't have out-of-province coverage (around $10/day) for the few hours she was going to be in the USA. An ambulance brought her to the hospital, the hospital performed assessment and informed her of her condition. She asked to be taken by ambulance back across the border and the hospital refused, citing liability reasons. One surgery and six days later she is released with a clean bill of health and goes home. The following month she receives an invoice for over $40,000 USD.

      Ok. Fair enough. That's the way it works and she wasn't covered for her trip outside of Canada.

      I'm still trying to figure out why you would prefer to pay out of pocket (e.g.) $40,000 for an issue that
      puts you in the hospital for a week. One could live very comfortably for an entire year on that much money in most small towns in Canada.

      I am honestly curious as to how you see this as "a better option" compared to simply paying for it in small increments through a payroll tax that everyone else pays too.

      Interesting Fact(?): I have recently left the unemployment rolls, the payroll tax was deducted from my Employment Insurance cheques for the entire 9 months I was off work.

      2) Actually, this is exactly what happens in a single payer system. We just don't pay at the hospital, and the run-away prices that you mention are regulated by the "single payer".

      3) Cosmetic procedures are not covered under the Ontario Health Insurance Plan. Boob jobs are definitely not covered, and I can only imagine it would have to be an incredibly extreme case where the patient must absolutely change their sex or they will die (hey, I said extreme) - they MIGHT be eligible to get that surgery on the public dime. Probably not, but it would definitely make the papers.

      Old ladies' hips are definitely covered. Old men's, too.

      By the way, I'm pretty sure people are blaming your insurance companies for happily accepting payments for years from loyal clients only to deny them coverage in their time of need through what appears to be any means necessary. It reminds me of Bill Gates on The Simpsons "not getting rich by cutting cheques". It just seems so....wrong. As a nosy neighbour Canadian watching from the North side of the fence, it has always baffled me that you kept letting them get away with it. I'm shocked that this has been such a point of contention down there, and really I suspect it has a lot more to do with politics and hurt feelings than really thinking the government death panel is going to kill Grandma when she turns 82. Did people really believe that line?

      I cannot deny that single-payer doesn't fix everything but it sure seems to fix a lot more sick people compared to what you guys have had up until now. At least the insurance weasling is being dealt with, that is a great start.

      On a personal note, how grey is the sky in your world? Wow. 80 year old grannies? Really?

    15. Re:Hardly enough. by twidarkling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, I know that, but I don't feel that's good enough. Remember my whole "a different world when it was written" bit from a few posts up? Things like the Internet absolutely cannot, nor should be, regulated by individual states, especially with the influence the US has on the Internet in general. But due to the original phrasing of the Constitution, the Feds aren't allowed to say shit about it, technically, unless they try and pull the "crosses state boundaries," which unfortunately opens up all kinds of problems. It's a shit stop-gap measure, and not nearly enough. It's a way to stifle conversation and forward movement, not find a way to improve how the governments act and interact. Hell, I see similar shit in Canada all the time. The provinces tell the Feds to go pound sand, the federal government threatens them, and it's all a big "juris-my-dick-tion"fest, and that's with the powers a fair bit more defined. What it should be is "the powers not delegated by this document will be fairly debated and apportioned, with the ability to revisit as the world changes." Health care? Probably best managed by an entity not concerned with profit, and with funding requirements spread across as wide a pool of people as possible. Thus, it makes the most sense to have a properly constructed health care system overseen by the federal government. But that would never have been foreseen back when that was written. Alternatively, roads are most often used by the people living in an area, and so should be planned and maintained by those with the greatest interest in their use, so that should be a State thing. And tying the whole drinking age to road funds was just dumb. That should have been a state thing too.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
  15. Smart Employers by tpstigers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Smart employers don't give a crap whether their employees go to Facebook or MySpace or whatever, so long as the work gets done. Nitpicking over every minute is an idiot's response to an unproductive workplace.

    1. Re:Smart Employers by Skyshadow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You must be new to the workforce.

      --
      Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  16. Re:Simple to avoid by alphax45 · · Score: 2, Funny

    But that's no fun ;)

    --
    K Man
  17. Re:Seriously now... by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even better, set your defaults so only a particular group can see what you put on your wall and other things. Then add all your friends (true friends) to that group. This way, if you add someone to friends as a diplomatic move (some workplaces require being added to friends/followers as a condition of employment), by default they do not see your posts. Same with organization fan pages that one joins.

  18. This is not just happening INSIDE the workplace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is not just happening in the workplace. Some employers are actively watching their employee's social networking pages when they are outside the work environment!

    My girlfriend was recently given a series of "guidelines" in which was outlined, procedures for proper social network use. Amongst those outlined, the guidelines state she cannot speak negatively of her employer, and may not even speak of public information such as stock price of the company. It also goes so far as to say she cannot make politically or religiously opinionated posts, and she may not post such content anonymously,

    At the end of this document composed of "guidelines" (their term) is a signature and date field, followed by the threat of termination of these guidelines are not followed. Guidelines my ass, it's a contract to limit her free speech outside the work place.

    We're at a lost as to what to do. Thus far she's refused to sign the document, and has attempted to contact the ACLU and several other organizations. Nothing yet so far.

    1. Re:This is not just happening INSIDE the workplace by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't firing someone for a religiously-themed comment run the company into all sorts of problems? Let alone shutting down their expression in that arena. What if you belong to a church that believes in evangelism? You are essentially firing someone for their beliefs, not just expressing them.

      What you've described is highly problematic.

      Would you really want to fire someone for a political opinion on their own time?

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    2. Re:This is not just happening INSIDE the workplace by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If she is already employed, follow these steps:

      * Ignore it. If people ask her, tell them, "oh yeah, I'll get right on that." Often in large bureaucracies weird requirements come up, but no one actually cares about them so they go away if you ignore them.
      * Incidental to that, don't be emotional. If you passionately object, suddenly people will start to take a personal interest in you, and then it gets harder to ignore. Bureaucratic nonsense is never worth getting emotional about.
      * If that doesn't work, and someone comes to you and insists that you do it, give them a task to distract them. Say, "Have you checked with the legal department about it? Can you do so please and tell me what they say?" If you are lucky, it will seem like too much work for them and they will give up.
      * If that doesn't work, try amending the contract with a pen. Cross out every part you don't agree to. Or, my preference, add a line that says, "I don't actually agree to this." Write it in cursive and if you are lucky, the corporate drone will decide, "good enough" because in reality, they are just trying to fulfill the stupid requirements someone gave them.
      * If that doesn't work, try to talk to a supervisor. Try to escalate it to the person who actually created the policy (since they are the ones who understand the reasoning behind the policy). Once again, don't be emotional, and be respectful. Try to understand their position. You can also try escalating to the person above them.
      * If that doesn't work, just refuse. In this case, they can't really fire you, because it's illegal. Once again, try not to be emotional, and be respectful, because otherwise it will be easy for them to make your job annoying in other ways. It's harder if you are respectful.
      * It's extreme, but there is always the option to quit.

      THAT is how you deal with bureaucracies.

      --
      Qxe4
  19. Re:Seriously now... by DeanFox · · Score: 2, Interesting


    If requested MySpace/Facebook will grant employers with invisible type "friend" status to any of their employee's account. Employers can monitor their employees page without the user giving individual consent (general consent was given when accepting the user agreements) or knowing they have been friended by their employer. This is not a protection by itself. It could be for this particular service as they claim it only covers "public" information but it isn't if the employer asks directly.

  20. Re:You must post ITT... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thankfully I made a typo. It should be Thrumblepants.

    Big fat botties, I've done it again!

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. Re:Firing Reason by Phrogman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What is to prevent them from merely listing the reason as "inadequate performance" or some other description?
    When you have a job, your employer has you by the short and curlies and can more or less dictate whatever the fuck they want - in one way or another - if you want to keep the job. Its not fair or right in any sense, but it is Capitalism in action. Only in cases of outright discrimination, or where the employer has been remarkably stupid, do you end up with any legal recourse if they violated the law. Any smart employer can fire you for any reason they want while saying its for some other reason I am sure.

    The solution is not to work for an employer who is that fucked up if at all possible.

    --
    "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
  22. Re:I've seen this before. by Anomalyst · · Score: 2, Funny

    I put my name into it, and it showed me a driver's license with a monkey on it.

    Thanks for getting that off your back.

    --
    There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  23. Works well until... by Mirele · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...your mom starts using the nickname on everything.

    My legal first name is five letters and frequently (as in "always" outside my family) mispronounced. Searching it straight also brings up a website I don't want my employer or my parents to see. So I went with a three letter nickname. Easy to pronounce, works great, a romance author has the same name. My elderly mother likes it so much she now uses it on everything. The point was to keep work and non-work life separate--and she's blurring the lines. Oh well, it could be worse.