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Open Source, Open Standards Under Attack In Europe

Glyn Moody writes "A battle for the soul of European IT is taking place behind closed doors in Brussels. At stake is the key Digital Agenda for Europe, due to be unveiled in a month's time. David Hammerstein, ex-Member of European Parliament for the Greens, tweeted last week: 'SOS to everyone as sources confirm that Kroes is about to eliminate "open standards" policy from EU digital agenda; Kroes has been under intense lobbying pressure from Microsoft to get rid of interoperability and open source goals of EU.' This is confirmed by the French magazine PC Inpact (Google translation), which also managed to obtain a copy of the draft Digital Agenda (DOC). It's currently supportive of both open source and open standards — but for how much longer?"

43 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. War by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is terribly exciting and I'm not even sure why...

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    1. Re:War by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not "war". It's about non-violent totalitarianism, plain and simple. That's what the EU has always been about, and what it will always be about. It's about Germany and France controlling the rest of Europe, without having to resort to destructive wars like in the past. And for the most part, they've succeeded. Germany and France now dictate economic policy for countries like Greece, they dictate social policy, and now they dictate technological policies.

      Sounds like a war to me.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    2. Re:War by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is terribly exciting and worrisome at the same time. Microsoft has dominated the world with Windows and by leveraging the OS, they are dominating is many other areas as well. They are unquestionably an abusive monopoly. With software patents and other intellectual property types creating road blocks and toll roads to innovation and less expensive solutions.

      Open standards is one way to make sure things are fair to ensure that competition is alive and well. Microsoft cannot compete with others using open standards and expect to win every time. (I would have no problem if they conformed to open standards and actually offered a better product.) But instead of competing on the basis of quality, they lobby for laws and policies to change in their favor.

      Microsoft is a corrupt company catering to corrupt politicians. I hope many EU leaders start to take offence to Microsoft's tactics and push back hard.

    3. Re:War by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sure Alabama feels the same way? They're having dictated social, educational, health, economic etc politics from DC.

      While it is rather difficult to leave the EU, it's not impossible, whereas secession is apparently against the constitution of the US.

    4. Re:War by Shark · · Score: 2, Informative

      Secession might be, but interposition is what Jefferson came up with as a solution. There are several examples in US history of it getting the job done too. Tom Woods has a pretty good historical speech on the topic if you care to youtube for it.

      --
      Mind the frickin' laser...
    5. Re:War by the_womble · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think dropping the bit about murdering all the Jews and gypsies and enslaving almost everyone else is a fairly significant difference, even if some bits of economic policy are similar.

    6. Re:War by SpzToid · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hope many EU leaders start to take offence to Microsoft's tactics and push back hard.

      Well the EU antitrust office did declare Microsoft to be an abusive monopoly in 2004.

      http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=860&dat=20040323&id=BAAgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8BUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1269,2934192

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    7. Re:War by HopefulIntern · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Amusing, but also sheds some light on the misinformation that spread after the war ended. I am not that old, and even I grew up in Norway being taught that the Americans came to our aide, saved us from torment, and got us back on our feet. The Marshall Plan was useful yes, but why did America go to war? Was it to aide his fellow man, or because after years of war in Europe they finally felt threatened?

      Depending on what you consider "the end of the war", it would be just as fair (if not more) to say that the Soviet evil empire liberated Europe. They invaded Berlin and soon after the Reich fell. Nobody taught me that in school. Maybe because of the rape and murder spree that occurred in Berlin after its fall, due to inebriated Russian soldiers. Maybe because of the cold war that ensued.

    8. Re:War by N+Monkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > it doesn't even make sense arguing _against_ document standardization,
      > nor it makes sense to even immagine a proposal of not having document
      > not using an open standard

      When your company uses 95% *.doc(x), 4.9% *.pdf and 0.1% oddball formats, then arguing for open standards and OpenDocument in particular, elicits as much as a lookin-at-you-weird-smile.. Then they'll go right back to work, consisting of debating how to best implement Windows 7. As much as it sucks and I personally hate it: DOC *IS* the standard.!

      Strange as it may seem, although the company I work for use word and *.doc, whenever I received a .docx file from an external source, it was opened perfectly well by my install of OpenOffice. So well, in fact, I assumed for a while that docx was the Open Office format!

      Later I was told there was a plug in for our version of word for .docx files, so I installed it. Ironically, that now sometimes fails!

    9. Re:War by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The U.S. population was self-involved and non-interventionist until Pearl Harbor. FDR had wanted to go to war in Europe for some time, but he couldn't get popular support. Much like George W. Bush's Iraq move, FDR used anger Pearl Harbor to leverage support for going to war with Germany (made easier by the Tripartite Pact).

  2. Desperation? by TheSovereign · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is it me or does Microsoft seem to be getting more and more desperate for control?

    1. Re:Desperation? by alexborges · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah? So why do they want to pressure governments into rejecting open standards as the base line for building IT infrastructure?

      --
      NO SIG
    2. Re:Desperation? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

      Because they want to make money just like the corporations who will sell the software based on those open standards?

    3. Re:Desperation? by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because if there's another format, then they'll have to support it. If they can get everyone to agree on DOCX or MSPF*, then they don't have to do any more programming...

      (and now to get modded up)

      ...because the more programming they do, the more likely it is that they'll fuck it up.

      *MS proprietary format

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    4. Re:Desperation? by alexborges · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No bro, I do not concur. You see, if they can get anyone to actively reject other formats, then they can make their docx shit a defacto standard, and from that position, secure their monopolistic power in the IT office space.

      If they let governments choose standards they would HAVE to comply with, they only need to use them (it would cost them close to nil, it would be payed the first three days of any government contract), but the competition could then actually compete with them.

      And THATS what they are afraid of.

      --
      NO SIG
    5. Re:Desperation? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's you. They've always been desperate for control. It was the thing that motivated them to build IE, they didn't want to let someone else control the internet. .Net was initially motivated by the same thing: it was going to be a kind of cloud computing thing, where all applications in the world ran on Microsoft's cloud. Which is why it was called .net in the first place, and why it compiles to byte-code instead of machine code, even though it only is ever run on one architecture and one operating system (yeah, Mono, but that wasn't in Microsoft's plans).

      On the other hand, Microsoft HAS gotten more involved in politics, and that may be what you are observing. They've gotten involved more and more ever since the anti-trust case. I read an article a decade ago discussing how Microsoft realized that to stay out of problems with the government, it helps to 'donate'. They are very equal opportunity givers, giving both to Republican and Democrat, depending on who they think is more likely to win.

      --
      Qxe4
    6. Re:Desperation? by Yaa+101 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not too long ago I was modded troll for saying: while you buy their products, they buy your political leaders.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1571214&cid=31359062

      It is still true!

    7. Re:Desperation? by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, it doesn't particularly, but I think you misunderstood my comment, I probably wasn't clear enough. Java was created with the idea of running on every platform then in existence, and Sun made an effort to make that happen. .Net on the other hand, was conceptualized as something that would run on the cloud (before the word cloud was used in this context), with the idea that it wouldn't matter what hardware the cloud was running on, as long as Microsoft's system was somewhere in there.

      However, the cloud concept never got developed, and .net ended up being a system that ran only on one platform, making it pointless to run as bytecode at all. I tried to find a Slashdot article from this time period, but this is the closest I could get. Best quote from the article:

      Gates indicated that the company's software Promised Land will be a new version of its Windows operating system code-named Longhorn, which is still at least two years off.

      --
      Qxe4
    8. Re:Desperation? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because they want to make money just like the corporations who will sell the software based on those open standards?

      Apparently by competing with said corporations in the halls of the bureaucrats, rather than in the open market.

      Shame on you, Microsoft. You used to say 'I'm sorry that we have to have a Washington presence. We thrived during our first 16 years without any of this.' Now you're buying governments just like Larry Ellison does.

  3. objection by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Informative

    IT, whether European or otherwise, has no soul

    1. Re:objection by Pflipp · · Score: 3, Funny

      IT has lots of soul. You have been in IT too long. Now it has your soul, too.

      --
      "We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
  4. Spin doctor much? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's clearly very positive about open standards and open source. And then, back in November of last year, a draft version of the revised EIF was leaked [.pdf]. It revealed a staggering re-definition of what openness meant by suggesting that “closed” was part of the “openness continuum”:

    Except that your claimed new definition doesn't claim that proprietary software is considered "open" and actually spins proprietary software in a very bad light:

    and lie at one end of the spectrum while non-documented, proprietary specifications, proprietary software and the reluctance or resistance to reuse solutions, i.e. the "not invented here" syndrome, lie at the other end.

    This definition is funny because one can come up with a number of examples of poor or non-existant documentation, NIH syndrome, a resistance to code reuse within OSS.

    1. Re:Spin doctor much? by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that proprietary solutions will be considered is not a threat to OSS, nor a guarantee that Microsoft will be chosen. Finally, proprietary solutions often use OSS projects if it is beneficial (not GPL, but that's not the issue here).

      What does any of this have to do with open standards, which represent the topic of this discussion?

      Open standards allow us to ignore these kinds of argument completely, because they essentially guarantee that, no matter what kind of software you choose, I can continue using the software of my choice, provided that the two of us can agree on the standard to be implemented.

      I choose my favourite software for my own reasons; you choose yours. Everyone's happy.

      Now, if someone were to refuse to follow open standards and instead chose to say, "My way or the highway!" when it came to technical implementation of certain document formats and communications protocols... well, I might be a little miffed. I might even say that this is not fair and that it's ultimately dangerous because it causes public data to be locked into proprietary formats.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  5. Engineering new jobs by gilesjuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With the global slump politicians are under pressure to spend money on software, not use open source.

    Of course, the layman doesn't always understand that open source software is sold commercially as well.

    Under freedom of information laws surely we're entitled to see information in a format anyone can read?

    1. Re:Engineering new jobs by moteyalpha · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is a point there, what politicians want is a revenue stream to support them. Open source does not provide that. There is an advantage for slaves layman in open source or open technology, as they work less to achieve the same effect with open source, but this is counter to the interests of government. I doubt that anything that people say will be heard as the one common interest all political parties have is to keep the revenue stream and companies that sell products can take money from people and give it to them and in return they support monopolies and those who keep them in power.
      If open source simply established a trust that sold compiled versions of open source software and used the money to <strike>bribe</strike> pay sales tax and place ads, they could possibly supplant Megalosoft..

  6. Re:Importance by ThePhilips · · Score: 3, Informative

    BSA tries to ensure that EU bureaucracy would use the software of the companies it represents, in the case mainly Microsoft and namely M$Office. Wanna send a paper to a ministry electronically? Gotta buy the WinWord.

    One has to carefully weigh all the factors: bribes one can get off M$ right now + bribes one can get off M$ later vs. ... On second thought, forget about the open thing we have discussed before.

    P.S. FSFE take on the case.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  7. Re:Importance by alexborges · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Governments make up for MOST of the IT market if you meassure it in dollars. A government unfriendly, by mandate, to open source solutions, and obvlivious as to why precisely in that market is Open Source so important, is a danger to the comercial viability of open source software.

    --
    NO SIG
  8. Re:Importance by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Informative

    I dont[sic] know much about this and am curious why it is so important. Wont[sic] open source continue to be open source independent of what the EU decides?

    First this is more about open standards than open source software. Some organizations certainly will use them regardless, but lacking a clear directive, the status quo rules, and that tends to be proprietary formats and protocols now dominating the industry and harming interoperability and reducing competition.

    Or is this saying that the EU gov'ts will only use open source programs, and that is defined by this document?

    Originally this document established a preference for more open formats that are more likely to be usable to later generations and which provide more choice of both IT vendors and clients going forward. This was a recognition of the importance of open and documented protocols and formats. Note, nothing in this was pro or con of any given vendor. Rather it was in favor of open standardization where all vendors could compete instead of just one vendor (read Microsoft). The idea was that it is important for say word processing in EU governments to standardize on a format where any company could create an interoperable solution so governments could take competitive bids on a level playing field.

  9. Re:Good by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The less "open standards" clusterfucks designed by committees of self-righteous idiots the better.

    And how "open" is a standard really when the only people allowed in the committees are the representatives of multinational corporations? And let's not even get into the fact that if you want to get a copy of this "open" standard you usually have to pay hundreds of dollars.

  10. Re:Good by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Funny

    Correct.

    HTML = Widely used around the globe
    Silverlight = Used at Microsoft HQ and a small number of prefailed web projects

    --
    Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  11. Acta related? by solune · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if the ACTA plays into this?

    Seems to me open standards would hinder a closed-sourced DRM scheme designed to limit communication.

    1. Re:Acta related? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2, Funny

      So are you a troll or a shill?

      He comes here to stir things up and try to get over his anger that they won't let him into Mensa.

  12. Supportive? by Qubit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...which also managed to obtain a copy of the draft Digital Agenda (DOC). It's currently supportive of both open source and open standards — but for how much longer?"

    Why am I even surprised that the agenda is in MS-Word's old binary file format? Maybe they're just supportive of open standards for other people, or for hypothetical people in a hypothetical world, perhaps.

    --

    coding is life /* the rest is */
  13. Re:Importance by chrb · · Score: 5, Informative

    The leaked "Digital Agenda" doesn't appear to be so bad.. it mainly aims to promote cross-border interoperable electronic ID, health systems, and open standards in general. This will make it easier for European citizens to trade and physically relocate across borders (the existing systems are different in every country, and moving between countries is a PITA). The reason this kind of stuff is important is that the aims and details will be hammered out at a European level, then implemented as policy by the various counties of Europe. Once a few of the more powerful countries (Germany, France, UK) establish a common framework for digital ID or whatever, it will be required to interact with government online services in those countries, a software ecosystem will develop around these protocols, and the other countries will follow within a few years. The EU will provide funding for development of software platforms that implement these open standards. The potential risk here is that Microsoft and other companies will twist the definition of "open" to include proprietary patented protocols (which are "open" because you are free to license them at some cost), and then they can lobby countries and companies taking part in public sector procurements to choose closed standard solutions, which would obviously be a bad thing for cross-border interoperability. The relevant parts of the document are:

    The Digital Agenda outlines a set of crucial policy actions, including legal measures and programmes that must be launched or upgraded to get the Union on track. The actions are clustered in six areas:
    (1)Very fast internet access;
    (2)A digital single market;
    (3)A sustainable digital society;
    (4)Trust and security;
    (5)Research and innovation;
    (6)Open standards and interoperability.

    Use CIP support seamless cross-border public services, based on open and internationally recognised standards, and a European eID management infrastructure;

    An "EU eHealth Passport" could give citizens secure online access to their personal health data. On such a platform, improved medical services can be developed raising efficiency and patient empowerment. The Commission will work with the competent authorities to equip 15% of Europeans with such passports by 2015. The eHealth Lead Market Initiative1 will promote standardisation and interoperability testing and certification.

    Electronic identity (eID) technologies and services are key to trust in electronic transactions and in e-payment systems, including mobile payments. A European framework for eID and authentication, and internationally agreed standards and practices can help the cross-border recognition of eID and increase citizens' trust and confidence. A European eID and authentication framework by [.] is the headline target for this action area.

    Promoting more open standards
    The headline target for this action area is to reform the EU standardisation regime by 2015 to reflect the rise and growing importance of ICT standards developed by various fora and consortia, in particular as regards the internet.
    Another challenge is to ensure that public authorities – including the EU institutions – can make the best use of the full range of existing open standards when procuring hardware, software and IT services, for example to adhere to technology neutrality and to avoid technological lock-in to legacy ICT.
    Transparent disclosure rules for intellectual property rights (IPR) and licensing conditions in the context of standard-setting can contribute to lower royalty demands for the use of standards and thus to lower market entry costs for SMEs. This can be achieved without a negative impact on the owners of IPRs. Therefore rules for ex-ante disclosure of essential IPR and licensing terms and conditions will be promoted.
    Key actions
    Reform the governance system for ICT standards in Europe to recognise ICT fora and consortia standards;
    Issue a Recommendation to streamline the use of open standards in p

  14. Re:Importance by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who cares if they are?
    This is not some commie no money ideology. This about me not having to pay rent to MS to interact with my government.

  15. Re:Importance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, I can use free as in beer software or write my own. I can even use an OS not from microsoft with such software!

  16. Re:Importance by mirix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know WTF you're on about. Open. Do you understand what that means? Big companies (or individuals) are free to make pay, gratis, or open source software that works with the standard, and we can use whatever we'd like. It's a win for consumers all around.

    The alternative is a proprietary standard is implemented, the owner definitely profits. If you want to implement a alternative program, it's a pain in the ass to reverse engineer compatibility, and generally lags the proprietary version. Less choice for the consumer, not something I'd want enacted in law.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  17. Well they don't. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You don't understand the mind of a MS apologist. Bill Gates does not need a reality distortion field like Steve Jobs has. Each MS apologists comes with one pre-installed. No reality can enter their world.

    The guy you are responding hasn't read the article because he can't. He sees nothing. It is not even a void. A void is an absence, to him there is not even nothing to not exist.

    They pretend Bing is going to kick googles ass, then just a few months later when MS itself says they lost, they ignore it. They ignore everything that doesn't suit them because it doesn't fit into how their world works.

    And really, you got to feel sorry for them. At least Jobs fanboys get Apple goodies. What do MS apologists get? The zune. Whee! But don't worry, version X+1 will fix it all. Like windows mobile 7. No multi-tasking (unlike promised) and no copy&past. But don't worry, this is not actually a problem. A true MS apologists can smoothly go from claiming that WM7 is superior because it has multi-tasking to how it is superior because it doesn't.

    You got to admire an apologists who can claim in a story were MS is trying to chance favoring opensource and claim they are not worried about it in the same post. Amazing. I for one applaud him. Or pity. Or ridicule. My English is not that good, which is the one where you point and go "HAHA"?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  18. Re:Great! by miquels · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not just any woman.

    Rember that Microsoft got fined hundreds of millions ?
    Heard about the windows7 browser selection tool ?

    That was all her work, actually.Until last year she was the European Competition Commissioner.

    --
    Living is a horizontal fall
  19. Re:Great! by Djupblue · · Score: 2, Informative

    $2.7 billion even. She is very pro open standards and open source. She seems to know her stuff.

  20. Re:Importance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It`s you. They`ve heard about you and they prefer to avoid you so that they don`t have to institute rationing to ensure sufficient supply. If you ever start to show signs of self control and decorum, they may reconsider. You may think posting anonymously helps, but they know who you are. Heck, after the last incident, everybody in your city knows who you are.

  21. Re:Great! by monoi · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I'm a PC and the Windows 7 Browser Selection Tool was my idea!"

  22. Confirmation?! by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Informative

    The French magazine cited for confirmation doesn't say anything about Microsoft.

    So all that leaves is with is that some guy twittered that the bogeyman^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HMicrosoft is coming, and when we look at the latest draft of the Digital Agenda document--its still fine.