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After Discovery's Launch, What's Left For the Shuttle?

coondoggie writes "NASA space shuttle Discovery rocketed into orbit this morning and, despite some communications problems, is slated to dock with the International Space Station in the wee hours of Wednesday, April 7. After this mission NASA has only three shuttles scheduled to launch, though speculation persists that the program may be extended. NetworkWorld has a roundup of what the last Shuttle missions consist of and what happens next."

33 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. "...the program may be extended..." by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It will.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:"...the program may be extended..." by khallow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It probably will be extended a little, but not significantly for three important reasons. The budget game in Washington is such that you can fly the Shuttle or develop a heavy lift replacement (or exclusive to both of those, some sort of beyond Earth orbit program). Sure the US is a wealthy country and could afford to run many space-related things at once. But it's not going to. The extension proposals seem to launch the Shuttle twice a year, which aside from being a pathetic launch rate (which causes serious safety issues), result in massive cost per launch, somewhere in excess of a billion dollars per launch.

      Second, the Shuttle doesn't serve a useful role in any serious US space program. The only argument for it is ro provide "downmass" from the ISS (that is, returning mass from the ISS safely to Earth). All those other fancy capabilities are near useless for what the Shuttle is used for.

      Third, the supply chain for the Shuttle has been completely disrupted. The US already has shutdown the facilities for making external tanks. The SRBs probably will be shut down this year or next. And there's only three orbiters. Sure we could spend a bunch of money to restart that manufacture, but what would be the point? See the first two problems above.

  2. Record number of women! by mlawrence · · Score: 2, Funny

    How many iPads do you think they brought up?

    1. Re:Record number of women! by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      The iPad = feminine hygiene pad joke was lame and childish when it started, now it's just pathetic. Just like the childish jokes about the Nintendo Wii.

      It's funny you brought that up, because the iPad can help you control your Wii, too.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. So after 28 years... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So after 28 years, we don't have a replacement for the shuttle yet? In less than half the time, mankind went from sending metal orbs in orbit to landing a man on the moon. After 28 years in the US we can't even backport an older design and make a working manned spacecraft.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:So after 28 years... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Between 2.5 wars, a few major natural disasters, an economic mess, a heaping helping of social programs and agriculture subsidies, and the US's loss of the world tech leadership position....we just couldn't seem to find the time.

      Busy and Lazy can have the same effect.

    2. Re:So after 28 years... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...Because we all know that the 1960s were just a happy time!

      Lets see, Coalition forces dead in both Iraq and Afghanistan total 6,411 in 2010. 58,159 died in Vietnam. The US has been pretty stable in recent years with the exception of 9/11, compared to massive domestic instability, the assassination of a president, the time closest the world has come to total nuclear destruction, the cold war, etc.

      Yeah, the 1960s were just a -great- time.

      Yeah, we aren't going to great in 2010, but we, and the world, are a whole lot more stable now than we were when we landed a man on the moon.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:So after 28 years... by RoboRay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You obviously were neither alive during the 1960s nor are a student of history.

    4. Re:So after 28 years... by RoboRay · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, there weren't. There were exactly three more Apollo flights planned. Those are the three Saturn V lawn ornaments scattered around NASA centers. Those weren't models or mock-ups; they were fully operational, man-rated moon-rockets that could have been used with little additional expenditure. Nearly all of the funds that could have potentially been "saved" were already spent; the hardware was already bought and built.

      The program was killed not to "free up money" for Vietnam, but to kill a program that nobody in power really wanted but couldn't eliminate until it succeeded without appearing to spit on JFK's grave.

    5. Re:So after 28 years... by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, we had a much better economy and manufacturing back then. In addition, we did not have the kind of hatred that we see today in our politics. Yes, they fought over Johnsons give aways, BUT, overall, politicans represented AMERICA and AMERICANS. Now, politicians represents any company in the world that attaches themselves to the pols zipper and lines their pockets. Look at how W/neo-con regime allowed China to disregard their legal obligations just so that they could invade/occupy Iraq. Now, look at the fact that Obama is not reporting on countries that manipulate their money, of which the WORST is China (fixed at 7 yuans to 1 dollar for quite some time; Many economists think it should be anywhere from 3, or possibly 1, yuan to a dollar). Basically, America, the land of the free and brave, has losts its morals, and its way.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:So after 28 years... by caladine · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't believe it has anything to do with lazy or "couldn't find the the time". People got bored with the idea, as much as that thought boggles my mind. The movie, Apollo 13, covered some of it in passing. People weren't tuning in to watch about it much until something went wrong. The hype with space was beating the USSR to putting a man on the moon, and once that was over with, people lost interest. We have people to this day that think that any space program isn't worth the money. Waning public interest in space and lots of political self interest (let's buy some more votes with social programs!) are really to blame.

    7. Re:So after 28 years... by Third+Position · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now, what is the point of a return trip? Men on the Moon has been done. No one doubts we could do it again if we really wanted to.

      I disagree. I don't think we could do it again. Others feel the same way.

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    8. Re:So after 28 years... by khallow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now, look at the fact that Obama is not reporting on countries that manipulate their money, of which the WORST is China (fixed at 7 yuans to 1 dollar for quite some time; Many economists think it should be anywhere from 3, or possibly 1, yuan to a dollar). Basically, America, the land of the free and brave, has losts its morals, and its way.

      China's monetary policy would be a gift to any rational competitor who can print dollars. The US could just buy a massive amount of yuan (say a few hundred billion dollars worth or more) and close down this fixing scheme instantly (the US would exit the strategy by buying back dollars with the now more expensive yen, making a big profit). If China tries to print more yen to play the game, then sell yen to crash the market (alternately, provide your rival, more competitive yuan/dollar exchange). The dynamic of the big export economy in China means the US would win sooner or later. Instead the US apparently bought up to 1.25 trillion dollars worth of iffy real estate to prop up some failed businesses.

    9. Re:So after 28 years... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "but we, and the world, are a whole lot more stable now"

      And there's the problem. Stability means demanding ever more TV channels to entertain us. Instability means working your butt off to make sure you're better than the other guy.

    10. Re:So after 28 years... by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know a good way to "work out" work out how to do something? You stop paying people to theorise about how you might do it, and you start the countdown to doing it.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    11. Re:So after 28 years... by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What they can do and what they will do are two very different things. If we go after China, then it would likely move many investors off the dollars (hopefully, to the euro). Basically, they would see us as being irresponsible and wanting to get out of the way of 2 nations that are conducting war via economic means. Besides, the fact that Geithner is not forthcoming with the report about fixed money speaks loudly about this admin. I voted them in since I can not say 'president palin' and not see more W/Cheney/neo-con regime with it. BUT, I am not wild about what I see here. Basically, Obama's team is NOT fixing the problem.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  4. Discovery isn't done by crow · · Score: 3, Informative

    The last scheduled shuttle flight is also Discovery, so today's launch doesn't signify the end of anything.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-133

  5. Re:Reduce the debt via... by robot256 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They started taking bids from museums a year or two ago, and closed the bidding last month. Currently marked down to the bargain-basement price of $28 million each, including shipping, no quantity discounts.

  6. Re:Gather Rust and Dust in a Museum by robot256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or we could keep flying them, at excruciating cost, until every last one blows itself up, leaving nothing for future generations to remember a whole era of spaceflight by. The only reason the hardware cost so many billions of dollars is because so many man-hours went into retrofitting and repairing it to actually work. Face it, the only way to not have this problem is to take control of space travel away from politicians.

  7. It wasn't -just- vietnam by tjstork · · Score: 2

    It was also that medicare exploded during the early 1970s. Entitlements exploded, and the cost of the war exploded, and the price of oil exploded when the USA devalued its currency and dropped the gold standard.

    --
    This is my sig.
  8. Khrushchev is Celebrating! by wdhowellsr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On May 25, 1961 John F. Kennedy said the following:

    "IF we are to win the battle that is now going on around the world between freedom and tyranny, the dramatic achievements in space which occurred in recent weeks should have made clear to us all, as did the Sputnik in 1957, the impact of this adventure on the minds of men everywhere, who are attempting to make a determination of which road they should take. Since early in my term, our efforts in space have been under review. With the advice of the Vice President, who is Chairman of the National Space Council, we have examined where we are strong and where we are not. Now it is time to take longer strides--time for a great new American enterprise--time for this nation to take a clearly leading role in space achievement, which in many ways may hold the key to our future on Earth.

    I believe we possess all the resources and talents necessary. But the facts of the matter are that we have never made the national decisions or marshaled the national resources required for such leadership. We have never specified long-range goals on an urgent time schedule, or managed our resources and our time so as to insure their fulfillment."

    On July 16, 1969 Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Edwin A. "Buzz" Aldrin landed on the moon.

    When the Space Shuttle program ends there will be no US based manned space flight solutions for at least five years and possibly fifteen years. During that time all US manned space flights will be outsourced to Russia, China and possibly India at a cost far exceeding the current cost of the Space Shuttle.

    On a personal note, I live close enough to see all of the Space Shuttle launches from my front yard and watched a early morning launch on the way back from my honeymoon in 1986.

    I'm just glad that John F. Kennedy is dead.

    1. Re:Khrushchev is Celebrating! by DrVxD · · Score: 2, Informative

      On July 16, 1969 Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Edwin A. "Buzz" Aldrin landed on the moon.

      Michael Collins didn't.

      --
      Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
    2. Re:Khrushchev is Celebrating! by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 2, Informative

      And Armstrong and Aldrin didn't land until the 20th, either...

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      Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
  9. Re:accelerated decline by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We go down, they go down...

          But remember, the bigger you are, the harder the fall. How would the average Chinese peasant's life change in some form of global economic collapse? He would be on the verge of starvation. But then again, he's on the verge of starvation today anyway. Now how is your average US suburbanite going to take starvation...?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  10. Re:Gather Rust and Dust in a Museum by Rakishi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sunk cost, go read up on it.

  11. Re:FP by lennier1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    True, the iPad probably was the last missing piece.

  12. What's left? by SheeEttin · · Score: 5, Funny

    After Discovery's Launch, What's Left For the Shuttle?

    Discovery's landing, I should hope!

  13. Re:SR by Z00L00K · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the problems with the shuttle is that it is too big and expensive to launch - due to requirements from DoD.

    What was under development during the 70's were a lot of smaller alternatives - small shuttles for personnel etc.

    There are advantages with having a shuttle - it allows for a more controlled landing, which means that you can revise flight path and landing place to some extent. And with a new generation there is room for using better/lighter materials. In design of a new shuttle it may even be possible to design it so it can be able to use major commercial landing strips in case it's necessary.

    A capsule also has some merits - it is a simple object that is reliable. Unfortunately the landing is less precise. You can land a capsule on ground, but landing on water is preferred. However that also means that you need an extensive operation for retrieving the capsule.

    And I suspect that the astronauts involved would really like to be in control of the vehicle as much as possible.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  14. Re:Launch in July & September by GvG · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can buy tickets to see the launch from the NASA causeway, which is the closest publicly-accessible viewing site. See http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/space-shuttle-launch-viewing-tickets.aspx. For the previous couple of launches, these sold out in minutes. http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/about/view/view_shuttle.html lists some off-site viewing locations.
    Personally, I think it's totally worth it.

  15. Missing $2B experiment by Trapezium+Artist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm amazed that they've missed the fact that the July flight of Endeavour is due to carry the $2B particle physics experiment, the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS), to the ISS.

    Spearheaded by Nobel-prize winner, Sam Ting, and built and funded largely outside the normal peer review process, AMS is one of the most significant physics experiments of recent years, but as much for political and sociological reasons as scientific. If nothing else, without AMS and its friends in high places, there would only two shuttle flights left: this one was added by Bush and ratified by Obama completely over the head of NASA's normal process.

    That all said, AMS recently moved from testing at CERN in Switzerland to ESA's ESTEC in the Netherlands for electromagnetic and thermal-vacuum testing, and is on a really (really) tight timeline to get to KSC in time for the July launch. There are good reasons to suspect that that flight will be delayed into August and perhaps even moved later in the year behind Discovery's last flight.

    I was on a VIP trip to KSC very recently and was thrilled to be shown around the Orbiter Processing Facility where both Endeavour and Atlantis are be prepared for their last flights at present, while Discovery was out on the pad. Very special for a space geek to be literally inches from all of those tiles on the underside of Endeavour and (sorry NASA :-) to have actually sneaked a touch of the undercarriage.

    Also deeply, deeply sad to think that this will all be over very soon: the shuttle programme has been an inspiration all the way back to the drop tests of the Enterprise back in 1977, even in the darkest hours. While I understand all the technical and financial arguments for stopping it now, psychologically it seems crazy to do so, particularly in the absence of any successor. End of an era. There were moments when I was pretty choked up on that OPF visit, I have to admit.

  16. Uh oh... by PhaseChange · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Discovery? A communications failure? I've seen the movie and know what happens next....I would highly recommend NOT going out to repair the antenna...there might be a problem with the pod bay doors....

  17. Re:Reduce the debt via... by Publikwerks · · Score: 2, Funny

    A+++, fast shipment! Would buy again

  18. um... by GweeDo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Re-entry?