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The Fruit Fly Drosophila Gets a New Name

G3ckoG33k writes "The name of the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster will change to Sophophora melangaster. The reason is that scientists have by now discovered some 2,000 species of the genus and it is becoming unmanageably large. Unfortunately, the 'type species' (the reference point of the genus), Drosophila funebris, is rather unrelated to the D. melanogaster, and ends up in a distant part of the relationship tree. However, geneticists have, according to Google Scholar, more than 300,000 scientific articles describing innumerable aspects of the species, and will have to learn the new name as well as remember the old. As expected, the name change has created an emotional (and practical) stir all over media. While name changes are frequent in science, as they describe new knowledge about relationships between species, these changes rarely hit economically relevant species, and when they do, people get upset."

136 comments

  1. No surprise by mrsurb · · Score: 0

    Like when Pluto was reclassified as a dwarf planet, lay people get upset when the limited amount of science that they have been taught changes. I suspect it is because the media trumpets the claims of science as established fact. Most non-scientists aren't aware of the way the scientific method revisits previous conclusions and is open to the possibility of overturning them.

    1. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet and a drosophila melanogaster by any other name will still like a banana.

    2. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And you are using a bad example because you appear to be completely unaware that the reclassification of Pluto was because of a political pissing contest at the IAU.

      You know how legislatures approve unpopular bills in the dead of night on a Friday at the end of the session? That's exactly what happened there. But not only that, they waited for most attendees to go home. Scientifically minded people like me were aghast at the shenanigans.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well the decision was not about Pluto, but over the definition of a planet. My lecturers told me the committee (or whatever) tried to push a definition that was fuzzy and would have made many now dwarf planets, planets. In a vote, the "people" as he referred to the astronomers, won and now we have a good definition of a planet.

      Face it: We could never have 9 planets now. It would be 15 and rising (= a mess) or 8 forever.
      Why should 1 body of 4 bodies of roughly equal size rotating around each other make the biggest one a planet?

    4. Re:No surprise by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

      Error 503 Service Unavailable

      Service Unavailable
      Guru Meditation:

      XID: 678836868
      Varnish

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    5. Re:No surprise by Monkey-Man2000 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The people upset in this case aren't the "lay people [who] get upset when the limited amount of science that they have been taught changes". It's the scientists that use fruit flies as research models because it will confuse the scientific literature. That is, the biologists are upset at the zoologists who classify the species.

      --
      This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
    6. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah slashdot is broken :-/

    7. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Last things first:

      All multiple bodies rotate around a center of mass that is never in the center of the largest body, be it the Earth-Moon system, or the Jupiter system.

      Your 4 body problem is not even rejected as per the definition, so it's a red herring.

      Number of planets? Since when does that matter? Where is the maximum number of planets in the definition?

      The "people" voted? Seriously? You're seriously saying this? Out of 2700 attendees, all but 5 percent had left by the time the vote came up. Never mind that the membership of the IAU that actually attends the congresses is a small minority.

      You know what might have made sense? Making Eris the 10th planet. All other KBO/TNOs are smaller than both Pluto and Eris. Using Pluto's mass as the minimum mass for classification would have solved the problem of "infinite" KBOs being classified as planets.

      --
      BMO

    8. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      One definition that I had heard thrown around is to define a planet as any object that has enough mass that it forms a sphericial shape (this was on nova). Why use pljuto as the minimum mass? That's fairly arbritrary. Ceres shoudl be a planet and its no where near being a KBO

    9. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1. All definitions are essentially arbitrary at some point.
      2. All the other named KBOs are big enough to be round by gravity
      3. If we make Ceres a planet, then we have to make the KBOs planets too.

      --
      BMO

    10. Re:No surprise by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Funny

      Translation: "I was on the losing side of this debate, so I'm bitching about the process."

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    11. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then there are the people who believe that Adam named all the animals, and we don't have the authority to rename them. The notion that Noah took a pair of Sophophora melangaster and a pair of Drosophila funebris on the ark with him is took much for them to accept.

    12. Re:No surprise by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least the popular name is staying the same. I'd hate it if they ruined my favorite entomological pun: "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

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    13. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Time flies when you're having fun. Fruit flies like a banana.

      --
      BMO

    14. Re:No surprise by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Yeah slashdot is broken :-/

      Again.

    15. Re:No surprise by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      ...because it will confuse the scientific literature. That is, the biologists are upset at the zoologists who classify the species.

      Actually, it's unlikely to confuse it by very much. From a biologist's point of view, one kind of fruit fly is (broadly speaking) pretty much the same as the next. It might throw some of the molecular biology research into doubt, but molecular biologists are quite familiar with the ramifications of using DNA profiles for taxonomy, since that's part of what they do.

    16. Re:No surprise by dwye · · Score: 1

      > Face it: We could never have 9 planets now. It would be 15 and rising (= a mess) or 8 forever.

      What is wrong with 15 planets? There were a number of naming schemes already proposed for trans-Plutonic/trans-Neptunic planets out to at least 13 as far back as the 1960s. That there should be 8 forever, especially if something really big shows up out there, is more ridiculous. Perhaps we should rename Uranus and Neptune as Trans-Saturnic Objects and go back to the Ptolomeic list (sans Sun and Moon)?

      I suppose you would have had problems with naming trans-Plutonium semi-stable nuclei as "elements" because 95 and rising is a mess, as well?

    17. Re:No surprise by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Using Pluto's mass as the minimum mass for classification would have solved the problem of "infinite" KBOs being classified as planets.

      Why? It's arbitrary. It's right up there with making a unit of measurement based upon the length of some King's lower appendage. Frankly, I thought we were attempting to move past that with things like the metric system.

    18. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because when you think about it, the Meter is just as arbitrary as defining Pluto mass objects as the minimum size for planets.

      Go ahead, look up the history of the Meter.

      --
      BMO

    19. Re:No surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Scientists also will find this change inconvenient. A very large amount of what we know about eukaryotic genetics comes from Drosophilia. They're second only to yeast. It's so familiar that we refer to it just like that, no species name needed. It'll take some time to remember to say Sophophora instead.

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    20. Re:No surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      And you are using a bad example because you appear to be completely unaware that the reclassification of Pluto was because of a political pissing contest at the IAU.

      So there was no scientific reason for reclassifying Pluto? Then, can you provide a definition of "planet" that will include Pluto, but exclude the dozens of other pluto-like objects in the kuiper belt?

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    21. Re:No surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Yes, the meter is arbitrary. However you set the meter, it's clear that objects around size 1 are very different from objects around size .001. A useful classification system will group like with like. Pluto at .2% of Earths mass is very much unlike Earth. When you consider that Haumea and Makemake are 30% of the mass of Pluto, it's clear that Pluto is much more like them than it is like Earth.

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    22. Re:No surprise by bmo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To hijack your argument:

      A useful classification system will group like with like. Earth at .3% of Jupiter's mass is very much unlike Jupiter. When you consider that Mars and Venus are 11% and 82% of the mass of Earth, it's clear that Earth is much more like them than it is like Jupiter.

      Yet all are planets.

      --
      BMO

    23. Re:No surprise by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can!

      Any planet-like bodies that are Pluto-sized or larger are "Planets."

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    24. Re:No surprise by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good point. And since Jupiter's mass ratio to the Sun is close to what Earth's is to Jupiter, I think we should just call Jupiter "a really crappy star."

      Or maybe for classifying celestial objects it's not the size of the body, it's the motion of the fundamental forces ;)

    25. Re:No surprise by mister_playboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Eris is larger than Pluto, so your solution doesn't solve the problem the GP was asking about.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    26. Re:No surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      That's a fair assertion. I'd be much more in favor of classifying Jupiter as something else than I would be classifying Pluto as a planet. But there would only be one or two bodies in that group. So I'm not sure it's really useful to call them a whole other group. There are dozens of dwarf planets, and they really deserve their own classification. If you have to draw the line somewhere (and you do), it only makes sense to draw a line in between Pluto and the rest of the planets.

      What possible justification could there be for drawing the line at masses below Pluto other than sentimentality?

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    27. Re:No surprise by hldn · · Score: 1

      fail. it's 'time flies like an arrow. fruit flies like a banana.'

      the joke is that they use the same word structure but have different meanings.

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    28. Re:No surprise by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From a biologist's point of view, one kind of fruit fly is (broadly speaking) pretty much the same as the next.

      This is one of the most breathtakingly wrong statements I think I've ever read on Slashdot. And that's quite a trick to pull off. Um, congratulations, I guess.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    29. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      But bananas can't fly.

    30. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is, the biologists are upset at the zoologists who classify the species.

      This is why these kinds of changes should be made illegal on any other day than the first of April.

    31. Re:No surprise by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Funny

      {sigh}

      And "Informative"? Really?

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    32. Re:No surprise by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with 15 planets?

      Aside from expanding ad infinitum the group as we discover additional, yet relatively insignificant, objects, nothing.

      Personally, I'm in favor of saying 4 rocky planets, 4 gas giants, and 6+ dwarf planets. The dwarf planets can then be studied as a group by those who do not have time to study them individually, such as children.

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    33. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aha! In the technically-correct-the-best-kind department, it *is* possible to have the center of mass of a multi-body system be in the center of the largest body. For example, two moons orbiting a planet exactly opposite one another.

  2. Backwards compatibility by bjourne · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is it only in software we care about backwards compatiblity? This new name change will break thousands of studies which now references a fly does not exist. Journalists with only a fleeting aquantaince to biology will be confused about Drosophila melanogaster and its new name which leads to worse science reporting. This seems like gratitious breakage, where if an analysis was made the costs would be found much higher than the benefits.

    1. Re:Backwards compatibility by MrMr · · Score: 1

      This new name change will break thousands of studies which now references a fly does not exist.
      You should practice talking to people. Somehow humanity doesn't dump a core over a new word as easily as your electronic buddies.

    2. Re:Backwards compatibility by bmo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Somehow humanity doesn't dump a core over a new word

      It doesn't?

      Where the hell have you been?

      What about the fights over gender identifying words and political correctness? Gott im himmel, get out from under your rock. Core dump? Entire political movements have been centered around whether we should use certain euphemisms.

      That chair has no legs, it has "limbs" - Victorian era
      That's not a retard, that's a "special person" - Modern times.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:Backwards compatibility by bmo · · Score: 3, Funny

      To follow up to myself, and to apply this to myself, please don't call me "a person of size"

      I'm fat.

      --
      BMO

    4. Re:Backwards compatibility by djdevon3 · · Score: 1

      Most publications can stop print on old versions and create a new version. Even the bible was blessed with revisions. Besides who still uses books anyway? We have teh internetz for gratuitous reference material. Don't you know computers never lie? :P

    5. Re:Backwards compatibility by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Drosophilia melanogaster nomenclature 1.0 was conceived in the 1930's by Johann Wilhelm Meigen.

      Drosophilia melanogaster 2.0, for use in genetic science, was developed by Charles W. Woodworth and Thomas Hunt Morgan.

      Fruit Fly 3.0, Sophophora melanogaster, (note the summary is missing an o, a syntax error), is a major and backwards-incompatible release after a long period of testing.

      Some features have been backported to Fruit Fly 2.6, which is a different fly from the Tephritidae family that poses economic crop problems in Australia.

      Works Cited:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila_melanogaster
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(programming_language)
      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/04/10/0519202

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    6. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, with all the 503's I meant 1830's

    7. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      but Big Massive Object is okay?

    8. Re:Backwards compatibility by russotto · · Score: 1

      Is it only in software we care about backwards compatiblity? This new name change will break thousands of studies which now references a fly does not exist. Journalists with only a fleeting aquantaince to biology will be confused about Drosophila melanogaster and its new name which leads to worse science reporting. This seems like gratitious breakage, where if an analysis was made the costs would be found much higher than the benefits.

      You're modded funny, but I think this is more Insightful. The type species for a genus is more or less arbitrary. The member of Drosophila which is most studied and most written about is Drosophila melanogaster. It would make more sense to redesignate Drosophila melanogaster (or at least a near-relative) as the type species for Drosophila, and move Drosophila funebris to a new genus. Either change breaks "backwards compatibility", but moving Drosophila melanogaster breaks it worse.

      (Interesting fact: The Mac OS X spell checker recognizes "Drosophila", though not "melanogaster")

    9. Re:Backwards compatibility by bmo · · Score: 1

      Maybe.

      Bank of Montreal is not, because it's abuse of trademark.

      --
      BMO

    10. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word I was thinking of was "petulant".

    11. Re:Backwards compatibility by khallow · · Score: 1

      This thread has core dumped.

    12. Re:Backwards compatibility by anarche · · Score: 1

      Software concerns itself with backwards compatibility because computers can't very well check for themselves.

      Journalism concerns itself with backwards compatibility as an easy way to weed out lazy journalists.

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    13. Re:Backwards compatibility by cowtamer · · Score: 1

      Science is full of confusing nomenclature that is sometimes made more confusing by the use of inside jokes, etc. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_hedgehog, the Lunatic Fringe gene, etc.

      I was upset when they split Monera into Archabacteria and Eubacteria (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-empire_system ), and when they demoed Pluto.

      I was also upset when they discontinued Crystal Pepsi.

      I guess the point is we have to live with the evolution of knowledge. I still want Crystal Pepsi back, and will miss Drosophila (the concept -- not the annoying white-eyed mutant flies that fill the dorm rooms of biology students -- who I believe will be oblivious to the change).

    14. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Interesting fact: The Mac OS X spell checker recognizes "Drosophila", though not "melanogaster")

      And it certainly does not recognize Sophophora. By changing the name, those basterds just obsoleted my OS.

    15. Re:Backwards compatibility by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      To follow up to myself, and to apply this to myself, please don't call me "a person of size"
      I'm fat.


      I'm not fat, I'm waist-enhanced!

    16. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the problem there is that your spell checker is tied to your OS. That makes no sense whatsoever! Stupid Apple... (written from my probably last Apple machine)

    17. Re:Backwards compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and doesn't fit

    18. Re:Backwards compatibility by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      has -> is

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    19. Re:Backwards compatibility by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Well, the people who are most affected in this case are biologists for whom "Drosophila" as shorthand for "Drosophila melanogaster" is as embedded in the vocabulary as "blue" is for "the color of the sky on a clear day" -- it's a really fundamental change in the language, and not one to which we'll react well. And the fact that the word is also embedded in a hell of a lot of data and code makes it a computational problem as well as a human one.

      A lot of people are comparing this to Pluto's demotion, but it's really not the same. When astronomers mean "Pluto," they say (I assume) "Pluto" and not "the ninth planet from the Sun," and they pretty much always have.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    20. Re:Backwards compatibility by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Syntax is not morphology: response to TaoPhoenix

      TaoPhoenix's useful summary of the development of the "fruitfly" correctly points out that the summary is missing an o. However, the author incorrectly describes this as a syntax error.(1)

      This is not a syntax error but a morphology error. Syntax refers to the study of observed patterns in the sequential arrangement of words or lexemes;(2) morphology refers to the study of how lexemes change their form (e.g. requiring an extra "o" or not).(3)

      In addition, the author's use of the spelling "Drosophilia" is a morphology error. ("Drosophilia" would signify "the love of dew" in the abstract; "Drosophila", with the implied substantive "zoa", signifies "life-forms that love dew".)(4),(5)

      References:
      (1) TaoPhoenix, Re:Backwards compatibility
      (2) Wikipedia, Syntax
      (3) Wikipedia, Morphology (linguistics)
      (4) LSJ Greek-English Lexicon, philia
      (5) LSJ Greek-English Lexicon, philos, sense II.2

  3. It's not Sophophora yet by ethogram · · Score: 5, Informative

    The International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) ruling addressed a request to name D. melanogaster as the type species for the genus. Under the rules of nomenclature, another species in the genus has naming priority. As long as the genus (currently more than 1400 species) remains intact there is no name change for melanogaster. However, the biologist who submitted the petition to protect the name D. melanogaster did so because a revision and splitting of Drosophila is long overdue (and is apparently interested in taking on the project). The ICZN did not make this decision lightly, it has been under review for a couple of years.

    1. Re:It's not Sophophora yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Exactly. Read the article. Mod summary down.

    2. Re:It's not Sophophora yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ICZN can consider such changes (conserving a name despite whatever the rules say), but redesignating the type of a genus as a different species is extraordinarily rare. I'm not surprised the ruling wasn't favorabl. I can't think of any example where this has happened, although I suppose it might be possible if there is a serious problem with the species in question (e.g., if it is so poorly defined/described that you can't figure it out). It's commonplace to end up having to redesignate a type specimen for a species (e.g., specimens do get lost or destroyed), but if the species that typifies a genus was initially designated properly that's usually all there is to it: you're stuck with it. It defines the genus and anywhere the species goes the genus name goes too. In this case the type is apparently Drosophila funebris.

      The other alternative, as you mention, is not to split the species within the genus Drosophila into two groups (all the species remain combined with Drosophila), but there are probably good reasons for splitting it, especially with 1400 species! It's also possible that when you split up the species in the current genus Drosophila, Drosophila melangaster ends up in the same group as Drosophila fuebris, but it sounds like there isn't justification for that.

      [Shrug] Sometimes you have to deal with new combinations that yield inconveniently new names. What I like are the occasions when the new combination turns out to mean something funny in Latin.

  4. 50% of the species I have memorized by Protoslo · · Score: 4, Funny

    "It was very difficult for the commissioners," says Ellinor Michel, the commission's executive secretary. "It was a question of celebrity, as everyone knows D. melanogaster."

    That would certainly be awkward...if we lose Drosophila melanogaster, the only full binomial I will know from memory will be Homo sapiens. I'll have to memorize the name Caenorhabditis (of C. elegans fame) or something, and that will truly be a tragedy.

    1. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by selven · · Score: 4, Funny

      3x + 5

      There, you know two binomials again.

    2. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Off the top of my head:

      Cannabis sativa
      Psilocybe cubensis
      Lophophora Williamsii
      Echinopsis pachanoi
      Papaver somniferum
      Datura stramonium
      Theobroma cacao
      Coffea arabica

      Isn't botany (and mycology) fun?

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by S77IM · · Score: 1

      Boa constrictor

      --
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      Master: Well, yes and no.
    4. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by S77IM · · Score: 1

      Tyrannosaurus rex

      --
      Student: Is it true that the foundation of the universe is paradox?
      Master: Well, yes and no.
    5. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by glwtta · · Score: 1

      To shore up the numbers, memorize one of the ones where they just doubled up on the same root (presumably out of laziness): Mus musculus, Pan paniscus, Gallus gallus, etc.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    6. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 1

      Canis familiaris, Canis lupus...

      They decide if these are both Canis canis subspecies yet? I remember a wolf expert complaining that this should not be done because it might take away his livelihood some years ago.

    7. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by glwtta · · Score: 1

      They decide if these are both Canis canis subspecies yet?

      I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as "Canis familiaris", and Canis lupus familiaris is a subspecies of Canis lupus (as is Canis lupus lupus). Don't know if that's relatively recent, though.

      When looking for easy ones to remember, may as well go with Felis catus - that's got the common name right in it.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    8. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by yourexhalekiss · · Score: 1

      Here's an easy one for you: Turdus migratorius, or the American Robin. I learned that one when I was like 5, and remembered it solely because it had the word "Turd" in it. :-)

    9. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by SEE · · Score: 1

      Nah, here's an easy one to memorize: Gorilla gorilla.

    10. Re:50% of the species I have memorized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've not memorized 'Canus Lupus' and 'Canus Familiaris'??? What are you... some kind of Felis Catus lover?

  5. Lyrical summary by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sophophora was Drosophila
    Now it's Sophophora, not Drosophila
    Not been a long time gone, Drosophila
    Now it's bug filled time on a moonlit night
    Every fly that was Drosophila
    Lives in Sophophora, not Drosophila
    So if you had a fly in Drosophila
    It'll be waiting in Sophophora
    Even old pluto, was once a planet
    Why they changed it I can't say
    People didn't like it better that way
    So take me back to Drosophila
    No, you can't go back to Drosophila
    Been a long time gone, Drosophila
    Why did Drosophila get the works?
    That's nobody's business but the Scientists
    Sophophora (Sophophora)
    Sophophora (Sophophora)
    Even old pluto, was once a planet
    Why they changed it I can't say
    People didn't like it better that way
    Sophophora was Drosophila
    Now it's Sophophora, not Drosophila
    Not been a long time gone, Drosophila
    Why did Drosophila get the works?
    That's nobody's business but the Scientists
    So take me back to Drosophila
    No, you can't go back to Drosophila
    Been a long time gone, Drosophila
    Why did Drosophila get the works?
    That's nobody's business but the scientists
    Sophophora

    (with apologies to They Might Be Giants)

    ---

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:Lyrical summary by bmo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think you need to do more than merely apologize to TMBG.

      You need to buy them a new meter, because you bloody well broke it there.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Lyrical summary by anarche · · Score: 1

      Still, +1 for the effort.

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      Wait! Whats a sig?
    3. Re:Lyrical summary by yerM)M · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ironically, this song was written by the Four Lads not They might be Giants, which just goes to show how names and attribution are indeed lost to history.

    4. Re:Lyrical summary by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      BURMA SHAVE

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    5. Re:Lyrical summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      and even that attribution is incorrect, because The Four Lads were just the first to record it. It was actually written by Jimmy Kennedy, with music by Nat Simon. Poor Jimmy Kennedy can't get no respect.

  6. Can scientists stop arguing about their names? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    And instead invent new ways to kill the bastards?

    Fruit flies seem to spontaneously generate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation ) in rotten fruit in my kitchen. I think Pasteur fudged some his data when disproving Spontaneous Generation.

    Although, scientists are doing their part to get rid of the fruit fly plague. If you are a fruit fly, your mostly likely cause of death will be a fruit fly genetics experiment . . . performed by a scientist!

    Or by over-eager high school biology students, massacring hundreds at a time on microscope sacrificial alters.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Can scientists stop arguing about their names? by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The best fruit fly trap is a bottle with a little bit of red wine left in it. The little buggers are crazy after the stuff, get in and can't escape. We used wine traps in the lab to hold the escaped fruit flies in check. Of course, you gotta renew the trap every couple of days...

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    2. Re:Can scientists stop arguing about their names? by bmo · · Score: 1

      They don't get drunk and wildly reproduce?

      I really do appreciate the fact you're sittin here
      Your voice sounds so wonderful
      But yer face don't look too clear
      So bar maid bring a pitcher, another round o brew
      Honey, why don't we get drunk and screw

      -Jimmy Buffet.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:Can scientists stop arguing about their names? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solution! Don't fill your house with rotten plant matter.

    4. Re:Can scientists stop arguing about their names? by autophile · · Score: 1

      So that not even the little buggers themselves can remember their own name.

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
  7. This is why we have common names by urusan · · Score: 2, Informative

    As long as they're still known as fruit flies, changing the scientific name shouldn't cause too much confusion. Anybody who really needs to know will easily pick up on the fact that there are two scientific names and eventually the old name will become archaic.

    1. Re:This is why we have common names by dwye · · Score: 1

      > Anybody who really needs to know

      (italics added)

      For a snobbish redefinition of "really".

      > As long as they're still known as fruit flies,

      Regardless of what the zoologists name them, they will always be fruit flies to people with them in their kitchens, just as Buffalo Bill will not be renamed Bison Bill because the Plains Buffalo is "really" a bison, instead.

      OTOH, the people who know them as Drosophila melanogaster probably could care less that they are common kitchen pests. Or, for zoologists who cook at home, that the things flying around the kitchen were Drosophila melanogaster as opposed to some related species, or even something of a related genus, when they are trying to get them out of their kitchens.

  8. IUPAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they could just use the IUPAC name of the organisms DNA. of course it might take a while to say such a name...

  9. All the scientists own fault by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 1

    If they'd stop doing genetic experiments on that poor fly all the time, they wouldn't "discover" so many new species after all.

  10. High School Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First Pluto and now fruit flies! What are they going to change next fetal pigs?

    My entire high school science knowledge is going down the drain.

    1. Re:High School Science by anarche · · Score: 1

      First Pluto and now fruit flies! What are they going to change next fetal pigs?

      Yep, they've become foetal pigs.

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
  11. Not Sophophora melangaster by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

    But Sophophora melanOgaster.

    That is to say, with a dark intestine. But "sophophora" beats me. Definitely not wisdom-bearing. So what is it ? Geeks, help.

    1. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      No, it is wisdom-bearing.

    2. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Well, "sophia" translates to "wisdom", "phorein" to "to carry" - I can't come up with any other translation than "the dark-bellied bearer of wisdom" myself, which admittedly seems a bit odd to me. Gotta ask the local greek-geek at work on Monday if I missed any other root for "sopho-".

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    3. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welp, its DNA is pretty illuminating. It's not that big of a stretch.

    4. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Maybe its because biology students are first exposed to it in their sophomore year at college.

    5. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by dwye · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or because it is the species used in experiments, which are mined for data (bloated up to "wisdom" in the namers' mind).

    6. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I can't come up with any other translation than "the dark-bellied bearer of wisdom" myself, which admittedly seems a bit odd to me.

      Presumably "drisophila" means dew loving, so is "dark bellied dew lover" any more 'scientific' than 'dark bellied bearer of wisdom'?

      Seems Greek to me.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:Not Sophophora melangaster by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Oh, I am not questioning the "scientific" nature of the name - just wondering how it came to be named like it. It is not like scientist are dead earnest in naming stuff. You should have a look at the names for certain drosophila mutations... "tinman" - having no heart; "lost in space" - abnormal axon projection; "ken and barbie" - no external genitalia"; "tribbles" - uncontrolled cell division; "smaug" - gene that represses the "dwarf" gene, "ring" - the Really Interesting New Gene.... It is a nerdy business, doing science.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
  12. Historical Precedent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This ain't just some fruit fly. This is the fruit fly. The one Thomas Hunt Morgan chose to study.

    "In his famous Fly Room at Columbia University Morgan was able to demonstrate that genes are carried on chromosomes and are the mechanical basis of heredity."

    (wikipedia). Drosophila melanogaster was also the model organism that was used in studies that led to the discovery of hox genes. And before the best and the brightest flash their union card credentials and poo poo the lay people let's not forget similar memorable fiascoes where scientists themselves refused to get on board with sensible taxonomy name changes. For example in immunology the innate immune system has a glitch in it's taxonomy in the naming conventions of the Complement System where cleaved segments have a truculent anti-intuitive name for one of the segments. An effort was made to have the one segment (C2a) renamed but it hasn't been universally adopted just because that's the way it's always been.

    And why the 503 error persisting for more than 5 minutes?

    mindbrane

  13. stupid dumbshits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Drosophila melanogaster is THE species - and the only species - that scientists have simply decided to coalesce around and study in comprehensive detail. It has been the species for studying recessive and dominant genes. It is the first species to have its genome sequenced. Etc etc etc. Scientists simply decided long ago that they will get an economy of scale by pooling their papers around this species. It's a little bit similar to the old pool of resources and knowledge in the "Windows" name.

    Microsoft could change or drop the name of just about any of its products - except "Windows".

    Likewise you can change the name of any species - even Homo Sapiens - except Drosophila melanogaster.

    it is the ONE species that has to keep its name.

    1. Re:stupid dumbshits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA fail.

    2. Re:stupid dumbshits by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Drosophila melanogaster is THE species - and the only species - that scientists have simply decided to coalesce around and study in comprehensive detail.

      Well, that's not quite true; it's one of a number of designated "model organisms" which are being studied in this way. But it's undeniably one of the most important. And yeah, Microsoft changing the name of Windows is a pretty good analogy.

      I see no possible way this can end well.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  14. Brings the "Lophophora" genus to mind... by carlhaagen · · Score: 1

    Which is the genus for button cacti (f.e. the peyote (lophophora williamsii)). What does Sophophora mean? What does Lophophora mean?

    1. Re:Brings the "Lophophora" genus to mind... by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Sophophora: bearing wisdom. Lophophora: bearing a tuft/crest.

  15. Wiki wiki by nanoakron · · Score: 1

    A quick Wiki finds they've had since 1939 to change the species name...no point getting their pants in a twist now ;)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophophora

  16. dammit by cntThnkofAname · · Score: 1

    I fucking hate flies no matter how interesting the name sounds!

  17. The solution is Managed Journalism! by RulerOf · · Score: 1

    These types of name changes have prevented older publications from compiling nicely into modern libraries and vernacular for some time now. I propose we switch to some type of managed form of journalism---let's call it Journalism.NET---where these types of scientific references can be safely ported to new, more up to date word-ware paradigms!

    --
    Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
    1. Re:The solution is Managed Journalism! by bmo · · Score: 1

      "as if millions of authors suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."

      --
      BMO

  18. 7227? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even though NCBI taxonomy is not a taxonomic authority, we do seem to be standardising on their taxon IDs for database work. So the real question might be whether we continue to call fruit flies taxon number 7227 or not.

  19. Are they by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    going to change the name of time flies too?

    1. Re:Are they by JustOK · · Score: 1

      chronognats

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
  20. Sounds unworkable to me by khallow · · Score: 1
    The thing to worry about here is what happens when another 2000 species come up again and again. Keep in mind that there will be extensive creation of new species due to research on this particular organism, maybe even some species creation in the field. The current solution will need to be repeated and unless they come up with a better approach, it'll break old research. My take is that the approach doesn't really work. Reading through the comments, I came across the following:

    For the record, I also think that Drosophila should be split because having 1450 species in a single genus is simply insanely impractical. Unlike the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature, the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature allows only two ranks (the subgenus and the "group of species") between the genus and the species, so using subdivisions within the genus is not an option, and this means many clades within Drosophila cannot be named as long as it keeps being that large. However, the ICZN does not restrict the number of species per genus at all; people who are happy to keep 1450 species within Drosophila are free to do so.

    Adding another layer of ranks might help a lot here.

    1. Re:Sounds unworkable to me by JoeD · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It wasn't the the number of species in the genus that prompted this. It was the genetic analysis of those species that revealed that they were not as closely related as people thought.

    2. Re:Sounds unworkable to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does it break old research? I mean it's not like there's going to be a new fly that will take the old name, the old name just becomes a pointer to the new name.

  21. Apatosaurus? Bah! by JoeD · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's still Brontosaurus to me.

  22. Naming should be like an IP? by mattr · · Score: 1

    If the naming system was built right you would still see the relationship of different subspecies even when splitting is done.

    It probably is an old discussion but I wonder, shouldn't taxonomy use more than 2 names, or perhaps use syllables to indicate relationships?

    Is there a numerical system, perhaps like IP dot notation, or something else, that handles this more gracefully? If a numerical system existed that matches the relationships borne out by analysis of dna and the like, then maybe that should be the real base used, and then the latin or whatever names you want can be attached to it like a DNS?

    The problem seems to be that as you discover more things, you will have to keep splitting and renaming, and you will lose links and make obsolete old articles that cannot be easily updated. A system that fits the way biology and discovery works should maybe be considered.

    1. Re:Naming should be like an IP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as the names are used to indicate relationships, some names will have to get changed eventually.
      On the other hand, it is good to have species named after their relationships.
      Current nomenclature indicates only very close relationships (genus) which as I see it, is a good compromise, because those relationships hardly ever change.
      Now it's Drosophyla's turn.
      Some time ago here in South América we had our very common toad's name changed from Bufo arenarum to Chaunus arenarum. It happens.
      And yes there are some propositions for assigning an unique ID to each species regardless of any common names.

    2. Re:Naming should be like an IP? by mattr · · Score: 1

      Interesting, thanks I didn't know that.

      Matt

  23. You hould also apologize to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bette Midler, Bing Crosby, Ella Fitzgerald, and everyone else who covered The Four Lads original from 1953...

  24. Why should zoology be immune to change? by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This new name change will break thousands of studies which now references a fly does not exist.

    It happens in microbiology a lot. Pastuerella pestis became Yersinia pestis ... Bubonic Plague remained the same, and the old studies are still valid. How hard is it to set up a table of equivalents where Yersinia = Pasteurella

    Botany has been systematically reclassifying plants by their genome, moving dozens of species, eliminating others.

    Why should zoology be immune to change?

    1. Re:Why should zoology be immune to change? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      The problem is the sheer volume of literature, data, and code that refers to Drosophila melanogaster specifically -- or just to "Drosophila" where it's understood from context that it's D. melanogaster that's being referred to, since it's one of the designated model organisms. I'm currently working on a fly genomics problem, and when I say "I'm working with Drosophila data," everyone knows what I mean.

      This is a change roughly equivalent to the C standards committee deciding that the reserved word "for" will be replaced with "of". Could it be done? Yes. Would it be a good idea? You decide on your own answer to that one.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:Why should zoology be immune to change? by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

      This is a change roughly equivalent to the C standards committee deciding that the reserved word "for" will be replaced with "of". Could it be done? Yes. Would it be a good idea? You decide on your own answer to that one.

      Difference being that your project won't crash if you accidentally type Drosophila.

      The split follows a core principle of nomenclature: when you have to fork the project, do it in a way that means the fewest number of species are affected. Keeping Drosophila melanogaster as a species would mean changing over a thousand species. Moving D. melanogaster and it's relatives to a new species affects a smaller number.

      It will be called "Drosophila" until the last of the old geezers who worked with it in college dies off ... that means you. And, another principle of nomenclature is that you don't reuse species names when a species is moved out of the genus. There will never be a melanogaster in the new Drosophila group to muck up the journals and databases.

    3. Re:Why should zoology be immune to change? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Difference being that your project won't crash if you accidentally type Drosophila.

      When the project involves large amounts of code, it very well might. And there are, at a guess, hundreds of thousands of lines of code scattered across thousands of projects that have "Drosophila" or some abbreviation for it, referring to D. melanogaster specifically, built in.

      The split follows a core principle of nomenclature: when you have to fork the project, do it in a way that means the fewest number of species are affected.

      And normally that makes sense, but when one particular species that's affected has the unique importance to the field that D. melanogaster has, blind adherence to principle starts to look like a really bad idea.

      It will be called "Drosophila" until the last of the old geezers who worked with it in college dies off ... that means you.

      Heh. I expect to have at least thirty years of working life ahead of me, and many of my colleagues are ten or fifteen years younger than I am. Don't count us geezers out of this battle yet, sonny!

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:Why should zoology be immune to change? by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

      but when one particular species that's affected has the unique importance to the field that D. melanogaster has, blind adherence to principle starts to look like a really bad idea.

      If you start making exceptions, you have no reliable rules. You have nomenclature that is spaghetti code. There were many arguments about why Pasteurells pestis should not be renamed, based on its "unique importance" and the fame of Pasteur (who still has most of that genus, just not the really famous one).

      It will be called "Drosophila" until the last of the old geezers who worked with it in college dies off ... that means you.

      Heh. I expect to have at least thirty years of working life ahead of me, and many of my colleagues are ten or fifteen years younger than I am. Don't count us geezers out of this battle yet, sonny!

      Exactly. it's going to be "the fly formerly known as Drosophila" for at least a century.

  25. Re:Apatosaurus? Bah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's all just Greek to me!

  26. I bet Pluto ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... feels better, now.

  27. Re:Apatosaurus? Bah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Which half? Seriously. It was the wrong skull on the wrong body, and both parts already had older names applied to them separately. Effectively, Brontosaurus never really existed except as a paleontological chimera.

  28. A fly by any other name would buzz as much ... by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

    Or perhaps because of most scientists main interest in it: A fly by any other name would breed as much.

  29. I was hoping for... by mace9984 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Jeff Goldblum :(

  30. At least spell the new name right by guanxi · · Score: 1

    The name of the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster will change to Sophophora melangaster.

    [My emphasis added.] It's Sophophora melanOgaster.

  31. [citation needed] by JesterJosh · · Score: 1

    Who claims we don't have the authority to rename the animals after Adam?

  32. I bet... by kobiashi+maru · · Score: 1

    that the scientists were being bribed by book-making companies so that everyone will have to shell out their cash to get a correct copy of the book they have that has fruit fly as D. melanogaster

  33. Bearing wisdom?!?! by kobiashi+maru · · Score: 1

    How do fruit flies bear wisdom? More like a craving for bananas.

  34. Irony by Bragador · · Score: 1

    Sadly for you, that was not ironic at all. http://www.isitironic.com/ironiqs.htm Thanks for the info though!

    1. Re:Irony by yerM)M · · Score: 1

      Quoting a song about a name change causing possible attribution error and attributing the wrong name to the author strikes me as the epitome of irony, but YMMV.

    2. Re:Irony by Bragador · · Score: 1

      I completely agree now that you are saying like that.

  35. It HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. No big deal. by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is standard operating procedure for systematics and has been for a century or so. It happens all the time. International codes spell out exactly how it all works. Systematists have agreed long ago that this is the way it should be and scientists take it in stride. These scientific names are created and managed to meet specific needs of working scientists. It should be of no more consequence to nonspecialists than changing "cycles per second" to "Hz" or "carbonic acid" to "carbon dioxide" or changes in IUPAC rules.

    The horseshoe crab was Limulus polyphemus, then Xiphosura polyphemus, then Limulus polyphemus again.

    In 1962 Theodore Savory wrote, in Naming the Living World: "The second belief, apparently held by many, is that a change of name is a serious, almost a catastrophic occurrence, but in everyday life outside the lab this is simply not true; and a biologist may be reminded that both his mother and his wife have survived the same metamorphosis. The third fallacy is that the possession by an organism of two or three [different scientific] names imposes upon biologists that it is beyond their capacities to carry. This could be true only if zoologists, for example, were expected or needed to be familiar with every animal, whereas nearly all active zoologists today are either physiologists, who do not seem to care about nomenclature, or specialists concerned with only one group, large or small but essentially limited."

    The scientific names of organisms serve a number of functions. One is to be sure that scientists working worldwide know what organism is being referred to, and avoiding problems with common names such as "daddy long-legs" or "nightingale..." or, for that matter, "fruit fly" which describes at least two different families of insect.

    Another is to reflect the systematic relationships of species as best known. As knowledge evolves, names evolve.

    Biologists agreed on the best way to handle this long ago. It's not at all analogous to Pluto. There are less than ten planets, and there are over a million species of animals and plants. If you think scientists can get all of them right and never change any of them, think again.

    If you write a scientific paper, you have a choice: call it Sophophora melanogaster or Drosophila melanogaster. If you call it Drosophila, likely someone will insist on correcting it, but maybe not. Either way it is not going to be a problem and is not going to cause "chaos in the literature" because everyone who knows the species by its scientific name will know about the change. Nobody is going to get confused. Automated searches will get cross-references just like card catalog did.

    And if you're not doing professional science, just go on calling them "fruit flies." Just like "Baltimore orioles."

  36. Botanists have the answer by quixote9 · · Score: 1

    They conserve names in wide use, even if the names are no longer technically right. People do that all the time in ordinary language, without the benefit of a commission. That's why you're not calling "tea" a "camellia." (The valid name is Camellia sinensis, not Thea sinensis as it once was.)

    For some reason, the zoologists have never figured out this obvious solution. There aren't that many names in wide use, and it's easier for the scientists to remember an occasional exception than for millions of people to learn a new word for nothing. It's meaningful to the scientists, but for most people it's just a label and swapping it when the underlying thing is the same is just make(mental)work.

    (It frustrated the hell out of me when the astronomers couldn't figure that out either for Pluto. Just give it conserved status. It won't hurt astronomers to remember, "Oh, yes. The one Kuiper Belt Object we're calling a planet." "Planet" is an arbitrary, human-made category. We can do whatever we want with it.)

  37. *This* is why we need to use ONTOLOGIES. by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

    There have always been entities, classes, and attributes that have multiple accepted names, and there have always been name changes in the face of new understanding or new fashions. Humans are perfectly capable of remembering that, for example, "Apatosaurus" is the proper name for what we used to call "Brontosaurus", or that "canola oil" is a less hackle-raising name for "rapeseed oil". It's our indexing systems and search engines that have problems, and ontological/semantic annotation can solve those problems quite handily.