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British Chiropractors Drop Case Against Simon Singh
SJrX writes "Several sources are reporting that the British Chiropractic Association has dropped its lawsuit against famed writer Simon Singh. He had recently won a High Court ruling in his favour, but this had been open for appeal."
Also covered at The Independent
and at MacLeans. Singh had angered the chiropractors' trade group with his published claim that certain chiropractice treatments were "bogus."
But the placebo effect is really great!
I was truly surprised that Singh was sued in the first place for seemingly innocuous remarks about chiropractors. Yes, his comments basically called them to task for their industry group's assertion that chiropractic could basically cure all sorts of illnesses.
Hopefully this serves as a warning to other "slandered" groups that they had better have something more substantial than hurt feelings if they want to abridge someone's freedom of speech.
What a pain in the neck! (At least proctology is based on peer-reviewed science)
How is this related to iStuff?
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
They can make back pain marginally better. That's not bogus at all. They can not, however, fix much of anything else, which was Singh's complaint against them, because they claim they can fix everything from gout to cancer.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I used to work as a helpdesk consultant -- this was waay back 13 years ago -- and part of my duties was to lug bigass monitors for the company from one workstation to another (they were a publishing house with a lot of DTP guys). One day I lifted a monitor the wrong way, and long story short -- the back pain stayed with me right up until a couple of months ago.
Used to be I couldn't lie face-down for more than 10 minutes before my back would start hurting. And I couldn't carry my kids much. One day the pain got so bad I went to a chiro, and the guy did manage to straighten out my back. Hurt like heck when he "realigned" my spine, but that 13-year-injury is no longer there.
So yeah, I used to think they're bogus. But now I dont. YMMV.
The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
"British Chiropractors Drop Case Against Simon Singh" -newspapers
"Well that's a load off my back" -Singh
"See! Our treatment works!" -chiropracters
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> So yeah, I used to think they're bogus.
They are. A massage therapist could helped you more and with less hocus-pocus.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Did the chiro also offer to cure your diabetes? Cancer? Emphysema? Bad skin? This is what Singh was commenting on - the widespread, and supported-by-the-association claims to actually cure disease via Chiropractic Manipulation.
Bogus, indeed.
So yeah, I used to think they're bogus. But now I dont.
...When they treat back pain.
The main concern here is how many chiropractors claim to cure things like diabetes- not only having nothing to do with the spine, but often making people think they don't need the real treatment.
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That may be true, but you also don't put a bandage on your knee to cure acid reflux.
The point behind Singh's comments wasn't whether chiropracticy worked at all, it was if it worked for (in a sense) all ailments.
They dropped it out of fear they'd lose it, customers and £30million just like McDonald's did with their libel case. This is rather encouraging to see. Perhaps a few small voices can make a difference.
They fixed your back not your cancer. The scam is that they claim to be able to help anything.
The summary is total fail. Something was dropped.
Several sources are reporting that the British Chiropractic Association has dropped its lawsuit against famed writer Simon Singh.
Now they've unwittingly made this the even more famed writer Simon Singh. Before this, I hadn't even heard of him. Sometimes it's smarter to let the writer write what he will then to have a high court make him look even better. Now their illusionary world looks even more like it is.
Used to be I couldn't lie face-down for more than 10 minutes before my back would start hurting. And I couldn't carry my kids much. One day the pain got so bad I went to a chiro, and the guy did manage to straighten out my back. Hurt like heck when he "realigned" my spine, but that 13-year-injury is no longer there. So yeah, I used to think they're bogus. But now I dont.
Except that while you may have seen a Chiropractor, I am willing to bet that he was also a licensed physical therapist. What you have described is a physical therapy treatment, not a chiropractic treatment.
This is the reason that a lot of people think that chiropractic treatments are legitimate: They are receiving physical therapy treatments from so called "mixed" chiropractors.
Strict, or so called "straight" chiropractors claim they can fix any problem in the body (heart disease, cancer, whatever) by manipulating your bones and muscles. That kind of nonsense is right up there with balancing the humors to restore the body's vitality.
Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
Chiropractic treatment (massage therapy and physical therapy) has been well established as an effective treatment for back pain, and many "chiropractors" end both their claims and treatments there.
The problem is, true Chiropractic goes much further, claiming that a wide variety of diseases are caused by "misalignments" of the spine, other joints, and soft tissue. "Traditional chiropractic assumes that a vertebral subluxation or spinal joint dysfunction interferes with the body's function and its innate intelligence." In many cases, these claims are demonstrably false.
"Chiropractic is often described as two professions masquerading as one. Unlike the distinction between podiatry (a science-based profession for foot disorders) and foot reflexology (an unscientific philosophy which posits that many disorders arise from the feet), in chiropractic the two professions attempt to live under one roof, albeit with much tension between them."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I propose that anyone living in Britain who was seriously considering seeing a chiropractor- and still is- avoid any members of the British Chiropractors' Association, and lets them know exactly why.
Though I suspect most people who would be willing to support this boycott wouldn't be planning on seeing a chiropractor now, if they ever were.
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When you read the article, you have to say 'sheeropitist' and not 'chiropractor'.
I think. I seem to remember it from a cartoon.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
No "massage therapist" around here would do anything like that. They seem to be the sunshine and flowers and dreams half of physical therapy, mostly to make you happier after the physical therapist makes you work your butt off.
That's exactly what a chiropractor should be for.
plus you can get a happy ending to feel even better.
For example, he might have done X, Y, and Z to your back, X and Y being what he considers chiropractice, and Z something that he happens to do but wasn't intentional. It might have been Z that helped, not necessarily X and Y. You might have gotten similar relief from a masseuse. Or not.
Just noting that your experience doesn't prove that chiropractors aren't quacks who make false claims.
There's no such thing as the Placebo effect!
I'm curious how you can to that conclusion. I just read the study you referenced and that is not at all what it says.
What is actually says (emphasis mine):
We did not find that placebo interventions have important clinical effects in general. However, in certain settings placebo interventions can influence patient-reported outcomes, especially pain and nausea, though it is difficult to distinguish patient-reported effects of placebo from biased reporting. The effect on pain varied, even among trials with low risk of bias, from negligible to clinically important. Variations in the effect of placebo were partly explained by variations in how trials were conducted and how patients were informed.
Nowhere in that study do the authors claim that there is no such thing as the placebo effect.
Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
Probably not. Massage therapists work on muscles; I've never heard of one doing a spine adjustment. I, too, firmly believe 99% of chiroprators are full of shit, but the one thing they seem to do well is straighten the back... mostly they treat the symptom of back pain. But if the adjustment permanently removes the pain, I call that a cure, regardless of the quackery behind their methods.
I'd never go to a chiropractor, ever. I'd go to an orthopedic specialist that's a doctor of osteopathic medicene, though... but of course, their science IS science. There are many D.O. chief of surgeons and D.O.'s that run hospitals. I'd even go so far to say the D.O. is better than the M.D., as far as the skill of the healer is concerned... just not as popular.
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> So yeah, I used to think they're bogus.
They are. A massage therapist could helped you more and with less hocus-pocus.
I had a bad back problem a few years ago after doing martial arts. The regular doctor told me I would never be able to do sports again, gave me some drugs for the pain and I was given some massage session. One year later, I was still in pain. Although it did come and go but at the worst points I couldn't do simple things like lift the kids into the car or push a shopping trolley. I used to take pain killers and tried various different massage techniques.
I went to two chiros. The first was bogus. He pulled and pushed me around and I didn't feel any better afterwards. A few months later I went to a second one at had a greatly different experience. He was very methodical and explained exactly what he was doing and where the problems in my body where. Many clicks later and a few sesssions later I felt much better. I could stand straight again with ease - no pulling pain sensation like before.
Now it has been a good few years and I have no back problems anymore. I even play sport again normally.
My conclusion was that there are a lot of bogus people out their practising these types of techniques but perhaps with a really skilled person and with very specific problems in the back, their techniques really can help.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
Ben Goldacre (http://www.badscience.net) has done some research into studies about the Placebo effect, given talks about the topic & made a radio documentary on the subject.
What sets him apart from a lot of others is that he references the studies as he goes - I'd recommend looking up some of those studies, or even getting in touch with him before making your mind up completely about the Placebo effect - from a purely scientific point of view it is true that in the case of many problems, the body is able to do more than it would normally do - so there's room to "coerce" it into helping itself.
The claims of fakery had nothing to do with spinal issues, rather with everything else.
"The British Chiropractic Association claims that their members can help treat children with colic, sleeping and feeding problems, frequent ear infections, asthma and prolonged crying, even though there is not a jot of evidence."
Let's see, last time I checked, claims of panacea have ALWAYS PROVEN TO BE A CON. Sure, that snake oil you just bought may actually settle and upset stomach, but it's not going to make you younger, restore missing limbs, or restore eyesight. So if your favorite purveyor of cures starts claiming they can fix anything, you'd best kick them in the nuts and go find a respectable one.
Saying it twice doesn't make it so. I read the paper and while it suggest long standing conclusions about the placebo effect are untrue/overstated/badly concluded, it is far from the end of the discussion. I would be happier if it was true, but this paper flies in the face of decades of other scientific conclusions. i.e., I'm not convinced yet.
Mr. Singh didn't say that all Chiropractic procedures are bogus. It's the stuff about curing allergies and diabetes and stuff - that is the bogus part. But don't take this to mean that a good chiropractor can't work wonders if you have disc problems.
No such thing as the placebo effect
So one study offsets the thousands of studies done since the late 70s that show a demonstrable placebo effect? Some of these studies show observable reduction of pain-related activity in the spinal cord on an fMRI (For a relatively small subset of the larger work done in the field, see the source citations 37-170 in the Wikipedia placebo article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo)
Even the abstract of the study you cite shows that there are clinically significant effects on pain and nausea.
Thats put those stupid Quacks in their place. Glad it's over, it was distracting me from ridiculing homeopathy. http://www.1023.org.uk/
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?
My conclusion was that there are a lot of bogus people out their practising these types of techniques but perhaps with a really skilled person and with very specific problems in the back, their techniques really can help.
I currently have some (not too bad) back pain from several years ago. It comes and goes, but I can live with it.
Every time I hurt, my wife suggests I go to a chiropractor. But I don't -- because I don't know who I can trust. How do I know it's not some quack? How do you find that "really skilled person" and know you have one of those "very specific problems in the back?"
My current theory is to ask them what they can cure. If they say suggest wacko things like cancer and ear aches, I'll go somewhere else. You'd think there would be a better way, though, wouldn't you?
> So yeah, I used to think they're bogus. But now I dont. YMMV.
It's not so much that all chiropracty is inherently totally bogus in all circumstances. There *are* people who claim this, but it's not really a mainstream view.
The issue is more that there's not nearly enough consistency, from one chiropractor to another, in terms of how much training they have, whether they have any idea at all what they're doing, and, importantly, whether they limit themselves to performing legitimate and useful services or go totally off the deep end promoting bizarroid rituals with all manner of obviously unrealistic claims. There's a lot of bogus woo-woo chiropracty out there.
My advice about chiropractors is as follows. First, don't go on a whim just because you have a backache today. Take 500mg of acetaminophen and a hot bath. Most people never need to see a chiropractor, so it shouldn't be the first thing on your to-do list every time you have a muscle twitch.
Second, if you are considering going to a chiropractor, see a licensed medical doctor about your back at least once first, preferably one who specializes in backs. Sure, sometimes the doctor comes up blank and just prescribes some pain meds, which doesn't really solve anything. In that case, you'll probably go to a chiropractor next. But sometimes the doctor will discover that you have a real medical problem, such as a torn disc or whatnot, which needs to be treated. It would be a very rare chiropractor who could deal effectively with something like that, and it's even possible they could inadvertently exacerbate the problem. See a doctor first.
Third, and most important, never EVER go to a chiropractor you know nothing about. Always speak first to other people in the community who have been to chiropractors in the past, so you can get some idea which ones are any good. Be very wary of chiropractors whose fans go in on a regular basis. Try to find one whose patients say things like, "Oh, yeah, when I was having back problems a couple of years ago, I went to [name] a couple of times, and it really helped."
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
How do I know it's not some quack? How do you find that "really skilled person" and know you have one of those "very specific problems in the back?"
In my case the chiropractor was affiliated with the physical therapy provider my back doctor recommend I use. I did a combination of standard PT with a chiro session once every other week. It was hard to know which of these made the greater difference, though my back was much better afterwards.
> Massage therapists work on muscles; I've never heard of one doing a spine
> adjustment.
Spine adjustments are bullshit.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
> Mr. Singh didn't say that all Chiropractic procedures are bogus. It's the
> stuff about curing allergies and diabetes and stuff - that is the bogus part.
But that is an essential part of the theory: that all illness is the result of spinal "subluxations".
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I went to a Chiropractor about 2 years ago because I realised that my back was getting stiffer and less flexible - not surprising as I had just hit 50, and have a fairly sedentary job. Has my back improved - yes .... Placebo effect? who knows. But what I can say is that the incidence of migraines has improved from 3 a week to one a month over the last 2 years. Coincidence? Maybe but it was never suggested to me that that was even possible, and it was not what I went for. So does Chiropractic work? Hell yes!
"Chiropractic is often described as two professions masquerading as one. Unlike the distinction between podiatry (a science-based profession for foot disorders) and foot reflexology (an unscientific philosophy which posits that many disorders arise from the feet), in chiropractic the two professions attempt to live under one roof, albeit with much tension between them."
My wife's a podiatrist and sometimes deals with that. She went through pre-med undergrad, 4 years of med school, and 2 years of surgical residency. She has no belief in "alternative medicine" whatsoever, but she'll be more than happy to reconstruct your foot if you need it. Still, she has a surprising number of requests for non-medical treatment.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
And you could have got a happy ending.
They are. A massage therapist could helped you more and with less hocus-pocus.
You've got your head in the sand. There are injuries where bones need to be realigned. This sounds like one of them.
I've never heard of Chiropractors curing cancer. Heh - when my chiropractor got a malignant melanoma, she got it cut out before it could spread. :P
But I have heard the theories that proper alignment can help your body heal itself. I'd be interested in statistics (one way or the other) showing cancer rates in people that regularly have chiropractic adjustments, vs those that don't. Is anyone aware of such statistics?
Personal example. My wife injured her neck hiking. The Chiropractor did one x-ray and wanted to start her on routine (weekly) manipulations to get and keep things "aligned". The Physiatrist did several x-rays, took a complete medical history, did one manipulation and a gave shot of cortisone into the controlling neck muscle and told her she only had to return if she re-injured it. She never needed any further treatment.
Another example. A friend hurt her foot, but was actually dating a Chiropractor. He said he could fix her foot with manipulation and massage. After a week of pain, he took her to his office for an x-ray - that revealed her foot was actually broken.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Massage therapy and physical therapy are NOT considered chiropractic treatment. Chiro means spine cracking. You are referring to chiros who now see the light of day (i.e. science) and are branching into more ways they can make $$$. It's called the placebo affect.
I want to know where this chiropracter is at, because he is obviously an old-school chiropracter that ACTUALLY DOES REALIGNMENTS. The modern thing for chiropractors is to slightly adjust you over 30 visits, give you electrical shock therapy, and try to tell you they can cure any medical condition you throw at them.
Long story short, an old fashioned chiropracter CAN cure back pain. A modern chiropractor is a quack.
How many irrational/unscientific thinkers there are on slashdot. Chiro is a recent scam from past 100 years or so, completely unlike accupuncture/pressure which also rely on placebo affect (or perhaps not...jury still out). At least accu* has 100s of years of history behind it...not some boozing charlatan who made all his money off of chiro schools and engaged in water dowsing/etc. Go see a massage therapist for less $$ and a better result. Google is your friend on the chiro issue.
Every time I hurt, my wife suggests I go to a chiropractor. But I don't -- because I don't know who I can trust. How do I know it's not some quack? How do you find that "really skilled person" and know you have one of those "very specific problems in the back?"
For me it was a case of some good personal recommendations. I found people were travelling hundreds of miles to see this particular guy and although he was a bit expensive in the end in my desperation I gave it a go. It is a problem though...how to find someone who is not a total quack.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
I went to several chiropractors and osteopaths, and the best I ever encountered was a cranial osteopath, who was able to realign my skull (I did not think it was even possible !). When he manipulated me, I didn't sense anything, but I did some meditation this night, and suffered like hell. A few days after, I noticed that my glasses were properly aligned. I had an accident 15 years ago, resulting in cranial trauma, and he was able to readjust my whole bones structure (although he was unable to detect my flat feet).
BTW, you should avoid AT ALL COSTS the chiropractors or etiopaths who use cracking on your skeleton.
First, there is a good risk that when they crack your bones, it goes wrong. My wife taught industrial cleaning to handicapped people, and there was one woman who was handicapped because of the chiropractor butchered her, by applying wrong torsions.
Secondly, it's very dangerous to replace the bones regularly, since they tend to "float" after a few times.
One of my friends had a girlfriend practicing chiropractic on him. Since then, the bones on his back are moving pretty freely (that's scary).
This is especially dangerous for etiopaths and various cracking practitioners, since they experiment the treatments on themselves and have problems later !
Thirdly, they treat the symptoms and not the causes. In my case, an ethiologist cracked me to increase my lateral mobility, but the reduction reappeared after a few months, because my body tends to find a position where it does not suffer.
So it would have required that I had to go to see him regularly.
He should have tried to find the problem instead, which is that I have flat feet and tend to sleep in weird positions, all of these leading to my skeleton trying to find a comfortable configuration.
In my case, doing a few light physical exercises every morning lead to better results after one month.
I concur...I've been seeing a chiropractor for nearly 10 years now, and I can't complain...he is also insanely reasonable in the price department (although the cost for minute wouldn't make it seem so). But, he helped me with a clicking knee, and gave me basic exercises to prevent it from recurring...it hasn't. At the same session I mentioned some random chest pain that would hit every so often. He found a rib out of alignment, adjusted it and I haven't had the pain since...pain I'd had for years. Those two things alone showed me the value of chiropractics. Chiro tied with massage therapy I see as a one two punch on a lot of physical pain problems, and basically complement each other. And with that I've survived chronic pain from various sources.
Does he say some things I question? Yes. But his results for what I expect from a Chiropractor, bone/joint work, have been unquestionable.
That's the key. Most people see chiropractors as people who treat back pain. But the theory used by chiropractors is that all illness derives from spinal misalignment. Maybe some chiropractors don't believe this, but it is the basis of the field.
Chiropractors are great, if you get the right one. The problem is a few have given the practice a bad name. We don't treat whole professions by the actions of a few do we? Some do just want to have you in for 20 treatments, extending their insurance payments, others still claim to be able to cure numerous ailments.
My brother is one though that does what helps the patient. Roller table massage, musle-stim (electro-shock) on the stiff and cramped muscles, heat packs, etc, and of course initial x-rays to see about adjustments and issues.
My bro-in-law is a physical therapist. In my state, they have gotten spinal manipulation rights now so he and my brother actually do a lot of the same things. They each have their strong points.
If I have muscle issues not related to skeletal, I'm going to a PT. For pinched nerves or stiff necks, etc, I'm going to a chiro.
Every time I hurt, my wife suggests I go to a chiropractor. But I don't -- because I don't know who I can trust.
I hurt for a long time. It started when I was in college, so I went to the campus health center. The Physician's Assistant said I didn't have carpal tunnel syndrome, gave me double-strength ibuprofen, and said to exercise. A few weeks later I went back to see the M.D., who said there was nothing wrong with me that a little exercise wouldn't fix, and offered to write a prescription for occupational therapy (to evaluate my posture while using teh computer, I think).
While I was very thin, I was hardly sedate. I upped my physical activity, but it only made the inflammation and shooting pains worse.
I took myself to a chiropractor. Crack crack crack, then her assistant applied a mechanical massager, "see you next week". I saw no improvement after the second or third visits, so I didn't go back to her.
I had double health insurance, so I went to another M.D. nearby. He said there was nothing wrong we me. I went to a third M.D., who said there was a chiropractor nearby who got good results for many of his patients.
I went to that chiropractor, who did a form of light-force manipulation. I saw him once, and knew he couldn't help my case.
Over a period of 7 years I had appointments with over 7 chiropractors, at least 4 M.D.s, dozens of massage therapists and other non-doctor body-workers, and over 7 D.O.s.
The first body-worker I ever went to did an intense form of massage with her thumbs that caused my body to completely relax - it was as if I melted into her table. I felt fabulous for a week and a half, then the burning all-over pain returned, with a vengeance. I went back to the same woman when I got home for the summer, but she wasn't able to repeat the effect. Years later I figured out what happened...
The 18th doctor put it well: “All some people need is any kind of touch – this is why people love their masseuse or their chiropractor. The rest of us just look for the specific kind of touch we need.”
How do you find that "really skilled person" and know you have one of those "very specific problems in the back?"
I've written a few things on this topic. I just put one of my opt-in emails on my website. It's a story about how I fixed my father's dog's accident-induced limp with hands-on therapy. Feel free to send me an email (to the address at the bottom of that page) if you have any questions.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
[citation need(s to be r)e(a)d]
Massage therapists work on muscles; I've never heard of one doing a spine adjustment.
It depends on the state. There are training programs for spinal manipulation that PTs can do (my sister did one such program). However, the approach in this case (at least for her) was segmental (e.g. one particular vertebrae) spinal manipulation, as opposed to gross manipulation which is what most chiropractors do. In order to be able to legally do spinal manipulation, the PT has to be certified and it has to be something that the state allows a PT to do (i.e. within their scope of practice).
-- The Genesis project? What's that?
There are injuries where bones need to be realigned.
The real defect in chiropractic education is that it focuses on bones. But muscles move bones, nerves control muscles, and consciousness influences nerves. There's a huge difference between putting a vertebrae back in place and calming the nerve that controls a muscle that's spasming and pulling the vertebrae out of position.
With that said, some chiropractors move beyond what they learn in school, and really do help a lot of people. Some interesting forks of chiropractic philosophy include Craniopathy and Network Chiropractic.
While chiropractors are good for some people, I prefer other hands-on philosophies for myself and my family. See my other post in this thread, or read the story about how I fixed my dad's dog's accident-induced limp with manual therapy.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
If you hear the word "subluxation" at any time while talking to the Chiropractor or his staff, calmly ask them to stop the treatment (if in progress), and leave.
That's a great bullshit keyword - what it's telling you is that this particular Chiropractor is of the "I can cure disease" variety. These are the ones who don't believe in Germ Theory.
True.
However, in the context of the discussion, we were talking about someone who harmed their back through physical trauma. I don't think that a Chiropractor would call that a subluxation. Yet a Chiropractor could legitimately help with that kind of pain. And I don't think that Dr. Singh argued against that use of Chiropractic care (Although I have not read the book).
Ear aches are actually a really bad example. A lot of ear aches are really muscle knots in the SCM (sternocleidomastoid) muscle.
And even when you have a real ear ache with a bacterial causes, chronic ear aches can be the result of excessive tension in certain neck muscles causing insufficient eustachian tube drainage. When the ears don't drain properly, they are more prone to infection. That's not saying chiropractic care can fix the infection, but it can reduce the incidence of it.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Except that while you may have seen a Chiropractor, I am willing to bet that he was also a licensed physical therapist. What you have described is a physical therapy treatment, not a chiropractic treatment.
Really? First of all, what part of description made it clear that the chiropractor was a licensed physical therapist?
Secondly, any chiropractor can be certified in Physiotherapy (look up written examination on nbce.org website.)
Thirdly, none of the doctors, chiropractors or medical doctors, can legally "claim they can fix any problem." So, either your facts are unsupported or you got a wrong idea from some rumors that are floating around.
If you don't hear the word subluxation, you're not dealing with a chiropractor. The entire point of chiropractic care is to adjust the position of spinal vertebrae, which is what subluxation refers to. That said, if they throw the word around a lot, that may well be a clue that they are abusing the term.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
No, it's not an essential part of the theory. Some chiropractors believe that, but AFAIK, most do not....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Your writing skills are matched only by your reading comprehension.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Listen, if anyone was able to "realign your skull" you should either sue them for fraud, or have them arrested for assault. Go to one of the many anatomy websites and look at the structures connected to and underlying your skull. A skilled neurosurgeon could operate on the bones of your skull under strict radiological guidance, taking care not to cause damage to the blood vessels and underlying neural tissue. If someone really did manage to move your skull bones outside of an operating theatre then they did it by luck, not judgement, and you're lucky they didn't kill you or leave you severely brain-damaged. If, in fact, they didn't move your skull bones (which is overwhelmingly the most likely explanation) then they took your money fraudulently, and you deserve compensation for that.
I agree that there are some who would claim that spine manipulation heals all sorts of sickness, are clearly bogus. However, I have suffered from cervical slipped discs. I've tried going to the neurologist (who was conservative - doesn't like surgery unless really needed), then who recommended me to a physiatrist who insisted on letting me get on surgery. I told him I'll follow conservative care treatments - traction, which left me in a worse state than I was in (my hands were all numb and painful, aside from my back, and had me gasping for breath at certain times). Upon the suggestion of a friend I went to a chiro (who specializes in neck and back treatments - note that he doesn't claim he cures the world), and went into treatments (he did ask for my x-ray). Now, I am able to do pretty much everything that I wasn't everything to do - I still got about year before I should be able to get back to normal (he said no strenous stuff to allow for me to heal), but practically, almost all of the muscle spasms and pain and leg problems are gone. Moral of the story - don't go to chiros who promise the world.
No, you misunderstand. The massage therapist pushes you around. Your own body does the adjustment by settling into it's natural position while being shaken up a bit. Back-cracker does the same thing, basically, except he mutters something about "subluxation" that he pretends to see on X-rays, while doing it.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
It's been said already that some chiropractors happen to also be good physio therapists.
I have a friend who is a chiropractor who eventually was forced to start her own clinic because she refused to do kineaseology (i'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong, but whatever).
That's the one where you lie down and hold up your arm and they push your arm down and ask you a question like "did something bad happen do you where you were a teenager" - depending on how hard it is to push your arm down in response to that question, they determine whether they're on the path to working out the trauma that's causing whatever your present health problem is (ie, if it's easy to push down, they're on the right track!).
They keep asking questions until they narrow it down enough that you are supposed to be able to figure it out. In my case apparently all my problems were caused by a falling out I had with a friend when I was 15... "so, did you have any falling outs with friends when you were 15? Right, well, that's the reason why you have a hip problem now you're 32!". Utter utter bullshit.
But she couldn't get a job in an established clinic because she wouldn't practice it!
I'd go to an orthopedic specialist that's a doctor of osteopathic medicene, though... but of course, their science IS science.
lolwut? Do you have any ideas what it takes to get the degrees in osteopathic "medicine"? It's more quack-based than chiropractors!
I hurt my back bad once, and went to see one as per a friend's recommendation. I knew nothing about them, so I went there without any pre-assumptions. Out of the entire session (about 50 minutes), she did one movement that made any sort of sense related to my injury. Everything else was pretty much dancing around me with flower petals and incense.*
* Claims might be exaggerated a bit, but basically, she was aligning flows of energy and whatnot.
Problem is, our backs don't need "straightening." There was a study where different chiropractors were given the same x-rays of someone's back and asked to identify what problem the person was experiencing and what "adjustment" was needed to cure it. Each had a different answer. The most amusing part was, some of the x-rays were of people with no problems whatsoever, though the chiropractors found all sorts of problems to cure.
Long and short of it, many of our physical ills have psychological roots. Placebos can attack those psychological roots quite effectively, though depending on the nature, the effect may wear off and require further "treatment." In some cases, a placebo may break a psychosomatic feedback loop long enough to end it permanently. (ie. pain (emotional or physical) causes stress, stress causes tension and immunodeficiency, tension and illness result in more pain) Chiropractic is a highly effective placebo because of the trust level between practitioner and patient. This typically originates from the testimonies of friends and family, but is enhanced by the fact that chiropractors, in contrast to medical doctors, tend to be more leisurely and take their time to explain treatments to patients. The treatment itself also tends to have a psychological "trigger moment" such as an audible pop of the back or neck, which initiates the effect. This results in belief reinforcement that keeps the patient coming back for more treatments.
So, is chiropractic bogus? Yes, completely. So are many medical drugs and procedures. (Ever have aspirin work in less than 30 minutes? That's placebo) This is why it's so important to employ quality, peer-reviewed science in the pursuit of healing our bodies.
It's this simple: If a properly-trained medical doctor looks at the x-ray and says you do not have disc problems, you do not have disc problems. Chiropractors make people believe they have disc problems and the "cure" is nothing more than a placebo for pain originating elsewhere. (often psychosomatic) If chiropractors were actually doing something to your spine, they would be more effective than other standard treatments (back exercises, stress reduction, etc.) In fact, you would not be able to achieve results *without* the chiropractic treatment because the actual source of the problem would remain unfixed. (Yet many people who have gotten off the chiropractic placebo roller-coaster have been cured and remained cured by using medically approved means)
look out here come the Intelligent Design Freaks. this is just the break they need. Nice going Limeys.
While in the US chiropractic conducts very effective PR, in the UK the subluxation myth is widely known to be just that. UK chiropractors have shot themselves in the foot over this one - many are now facing trading standards investigations over misleading claims in their advertising.
Absolute tripe mate. For the vast majority of chiropractic users, manipulation makes their lives, albeit for a short time, markedly better. You obviously have no idea of whart you speak. Having fallen off a balcony at 7 I suffered a grade 2 spondylolithesis & if it were not for chiros I would not be able to walk. As for Western surgeons, & I am a Reg Nurse so I have some insight into this, they have absolutely no idea of the damage they cause by the stupid operations they do. Left without treatment all back injuries deteriorate. Given Western surgery it is usually made worse. Given chiro treatmentearly on, alignment creates well-being & life improves. I have had chiro treatment all my life & if you have ever had the burning, shooting pain called sciatica you would understand the debilitating effects this causes. No analgesia removes this pain unless you end up in a stupor. Most Western trweatment makes it worse if anything at all. Chiro is the only thing here that really works.
I was a medic in the USN. One night, a marine came into the despensary with acute pain. I dont remember what kind of pain. The doctor on duty could not find the reason for the pain. The marine was given a shot of saline soluton for injection (a placebo). Within ten minutes the pain was gone.
I suggest finding one who is also a practising MD.
I used the services of Dr. Jeffery Balon (both as an MD and as a chiropractor) when he was working in a clinic near my workplace. I once Googled him on a whim and found out that he was actively involved in debunking the claim that chiropractic manipulation can cure asthma.
Unfortunately, he's back to Ottawa.
many of our physical ills have psychological roots
I think considering the scope of physical ills, this is an understatement. I think that once science completely understands stress —as well as any pesky genetic 'death switches,' and perféct organ synthesis; and solve crime and stupidity yada yada yada— people will live forever. And I believe while science hasn't yet conquered stress (by understanding it entirely), there have been enlightlened (albeit possibly completely fully of shit) individuals that have... and if not for the death switches and replacement organs, crime or stupidity, they'd still be with us. I doubt any of them were chiropractors, but I'm sure we'd likely agree on who many of them were. And so what if they used showmanship or huckstery or *a lie* to get paid if their services ulitimately provided, inexplicably, by the patient actively believing something that was unproven or against known science (or even utterly impossible), an unobvious but successful psycholocal program that provided superior stress management and a longer, happier life for the subject?
Until chiropractors cross that threshold where public opinion is that they're hurting more than healing (hopefully with a much faster public reaction than to when it was true of a number of Catholic priests), unless that's your personal cause, then let the suckers and sufferers seeking relief continue to help our economy.
Granted, it's a poor argument I'm making. I'll give you that.
The Admin and the Engineer
You state "Chiropractic treatment (massage therapy and physical therapy)". From the wiki link: "D.D. Palmer founded chiropractic". DD sure as hell didn't invent massage or phys. therapy dude...a straight up spine cracker.
Also from the wiki: "Chiropractic is well established in the U.S., Canada and Australia. Throughout its history it has been controversial"...massage and phys. therapy sure aren't questioned by established medicine. You need to write a bit clearer.