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Sony Refuses To Sanction PS3 "Other OS" Refunds

Posted by Soulskill on from the you-paid-for-what-we-say-you-paid-for dept.

Stoobalou writes "Sony says that it has no intention of reimbursing retailers if they offer users partial refunds for fat PS3s. Last week, the first PS3 user successfully secured a partial refund from Amazon UK as compensation for the removal of the ability to run Linux on the console. The user quoted European law in order to persuade the online retailer that the goods he had bought in good faith were no longer fit for his purposes because of the enforcement of firmware update 3.21, which meant that users who chose to keep the Other OS functionality would lose the ability to play the latest games or connect to the PlayStation Network."

14 of 396 comments (clear)

  1. Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Usually I'd be out here saying let Sony do what they want with their own platform, but this is really kind of a dick move. They don't lose anything keeping the extra functionality, and they lose a ton of goodwill by blocking out some of their most ardent supporters.

    Sucky
    Onerous
    Nasty
    Ydiots.

    1. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OTOH these supporters cost them real money.

      That's their problem. And it does not make it any less illegal in the EU.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by beh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From the article:

      "which meant that users who chose to keep the Other OS functionality would lose the ability to play the latest games or connect to the PlayStation Network."

      So, the people who chose to keep the Other OS functionality, can no longer buy any new games - so if people needed that functionality, but also play games, then Sony will make them choose:

      a) buy another new console so you have one for your other OS; and one for games. This adds revenue for Sony, but causes them a loss as they subsidize the basic console (i.e. the will lose the subsidy twice on such a customer).

      b) stay with one console with Other OS, but stop playing games on the PS3 - thereby ensuring the user will no longer add to Sony's revenue.

      c) remove the Other OS, update and only use it for playing. Revenue stream continues for Sony (on new games) - but at the cost of goodwill to the company.

      I don't see any decent outcome for Sony on either of the three options...

    3. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by iapetus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Read the relevant EU law here. ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31999L0044:en:HTML )

      It is explicitly stated in the law that "Any contractual terms or agreements concluded with the seller before the lack of conformity is brought to the seller's attention which directly or indirectly waive or restrict the rights resulting from this Directive shall, as provided for by national law, not be binding on the consumer."

      Law trumps EULA.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    4. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by Sleepy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >OTOH these supporters cost them real money.

      Sony ADVERTISES a feature. I buy a product BECAUSE of that feature. This is a transaction.
      Then Sony time-bombs or removes that feature.
      I have had something taken away from ME, and you have the balls to suggest this cost Sony?
      On what planet sir do you spend most of your time?

      Now, let's proceed with your outrageous suggestion that mega corporations have a right to shut down customers who are less profitable.
      Suggesting that "OtherOS costs Sony real money" is no less applicable than saying "Blu-Ray users cost Sony real money".. should Sony disable PS3 users who play movies but DON'T play games?
      Are you SERIOUS??

      I use OtherOS. I have Linux on my laptop, but it's nice to demo things on the TV and not have to hook up the laptop.
      Actually, why the hell should I have to justify using something I already paid for?

    5. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by uglyduckling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're making a geek distinction that has no place in the world of law. Sony sold a device with certain features, one of those features no longer works following interference by the manufacturer. That's breach of contract.

    6. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, I think that's the interesting point here. Instead of pissing off a tiny minority of users, Sony is now pissing off all of its (European) distributors (all of whom will either have customers who care about other OSs or who will worry that they might). Those retailers can make life more uncomfortable for Sony than a few disgruntled users.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    7. Re:Normally, I'd say let them do what they want by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sony's legal counsel thought it was a great idea to stick rootkits on their music CDs. When it comes to technology the legal counsel often fails to see important facts.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  2. Re:I guess... by SharpFang · · Score: 5, Insightful

    totally. I guess it will be even more successful than the total boycott of Modern Warfare 2 for lack of dedicated servers. That certainly showed them!

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  3. Re:Why did SONY even bother making this a feature. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    To prop up and advertise cell as a high performance super computing platform.

  4. Sony has dealed with this before by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The PSP was infamous for having bad pixel problems. More so then any other device including the cheaper DS. So naturally Sony dug in and claimed that bad pixels were normal and it wouldn't repair or replace.

    Dutch consumer watchdog program Kassa took up the story and voila, Holland become the only country were Sony replaced the PSP with ANY dead pixel or subpixel.

    It is amazing how much consumer rights are being eroded by big companies who hope that the enough consumers just won't push the issue far enough for them to be forced to regonize the law.

    OF course Sony has NO such problem prosecuting the consumer if they happen to violate the law (copyright infringement).

    It seems that to big companies the law is a buffet. You take what you need and ignore the rest. And we are letting them get away with it.

    And no, it ain't just Sony fanboys either. Apple lovers and MS apologists are just as bad.

    We the consumer need to grow some balls.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  5. Quotes of Sony promoting the OtherOS feature by Sleepy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Taken from the Playstation.com forums (nice work!):
    ----------------

    CREDIT goes to Xrobx who posted these in another thread and i wanted to make sure that everyone sees them...

    Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.:
    "In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3 system to run the Linux operating system. By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3 system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine (Cell/B.E.)."
    http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

    (http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:byasL-PxEiMJ:www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html+http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=cln
    k&gl=us&client=safari) - google's cached page of the above hyperlink from March 30th 2010 which does not say anything about FW 3.21 removing Other OS. I've saved the page in case it goes offline, copy http address into browser as link probably won't work. Or, just search google and get the cached page. - kiyyto.

    Phil Harrison, February 2007,
    President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios 2005-2008:
    "One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the 'Install Other OS' option."
    http://kotaku.com/235049/20-questions-with-phil-harrison-at-dice

    Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., 2006-2009:
    "The Linux Distributor's Starter Kit provides information, binary and source codes to Linux Distribution developers who wants to make their distro support PS3."
    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux

    Izumi Kawanishi, Sony, May 2006:
    "Because we have plans for having Linux on board [the PS3], we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3."
    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9290

    Geoffrey Levand, August 2009,
    Principal Software Engineer at Sony Corporation:
    "Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases."
    mailing list to PS3 customers using Linux

    Phil Harrison, May 2006,
    President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios 2005-2008:
    "The Playstation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."
    http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,418642,00.html
    SONY
    Make.Believe... you didn't see that

  6. Re:Technically : Not exactly by CowboyBob500 · · Score: 5, Informative

    But that is still a breach of contract(1): the machine was sold as a machine that can run Linux *and* use the service. Now all of sudden it's either one or the other. According to several jurisdiction (France is cited in the example) Sony owes their customer some money.

    Close, but not quite correct. In the UK (and the EU), an item must be sold as "fit for purpose" and it is the retailer that is obliged to ensure that is the case not the manufacturer. In terms of electronic devices, fit for purpose usually means that it must perform the functions that it was advertised as performing at the time of purchase for a minimum of 6 years. Clearly this action by Sony breaks this sales contract, but the refund must come from the retailer as it was they that the consumer entered into contract with.

    However, the retailer would then claim the compensation back from the manufacturer as they are also entitled to the same "fit for purpose" guarantee. Therefore it will Amazon (in this case) that come knocking on Sony's door for a refund, not Joe Public. Sony may have a harder time brushing them off.

    --
    Listen to my latest album here
  7. We are not being noisy enough! by xavierpayne · · Score: 5, Informative

    I called SONY customer relations to chat with them about the dropping of linux in their latest PS3 update. After very civily conveying my dismay at their decision to punish honest users of the PS3 by retro-actively ripping out the previously advertised, supported, and paid for "Other OS" feature I asked what they could do for me to even things up for effectively turning my non ps2 compatible fat into an oversized-overpriced slim. Their answer: "Sir I take hundreds of calls a day and you are the first to call and complain about this particular issue." Linux fans, PS3 owners who are linux fans... If that statement is true I'm dissappointed in you. 1-800-345-7669 (SONY) Hours: Mon-Sat 6:00AM-8:00PM / Sun 7:00AM-6:30PM PT If you are going to call be civil. But make it clear their action hasn't gone unnoticed and is unnacceptable. According to a friend of mine who has also called if you want to escalate it further, you can apparently call 1-866-286-5123 Monday through Friday from 8am-5:30pm Pacific time, a.k.a. 11am-8:30pm Eastern. They need to know just how much this bothers their customers. The impression I have so far is that it's not even a blip on their radar.