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Databases In Caves? A Unique Google Fiber Bid

Posted by Soulskill on from the sysadmins-plus-bats-equals-fun dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Plenty of cities have submitted bids for the Google Fiber project, with most of their bids being centered around the attributes that could describe many communities. Yet one small midwestern town, with much less fanfare than the metropolitan bids, provided an unusual proposition for Google in their likely quixotic nomination. Quincy, IL, has an extensive series of underground caverns that could provide year-round temperature control, dedicated hydroelectric power, and security in the case of a terrorist attack."

28 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Makes sense by sys.stdout.write · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sys admins pretty much live in caves already, right?

    1. Re:Makes sense by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey!

      It's called a LAIR.

    2. Re:Makes sense by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Funny

      No. Dragons live in lairs. And they guard treasures.

      Batman lives in a cave.

      If you're a system administrator in Quincy, Illinois and you have a black car, you're already on the path of becoming a super-hero!

    3. Re:Makes sense by Dekker3D · · Score: 2, Funny

      and a sysadmin's servers aren't his own little treasure? i could swear i've heard one call his "his precioussss..."

  2. Carthage, MO has that as well by Nimey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Big former limestone quarry with a bunch of underground storage. Town has its own electric utility too.

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
    1. Re:Carthage, MO has that as well by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but it's not worth it, because everyone knows it'll all be plowed under and salted when the Romans invade.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Carthage, MO has that as well by Mr+Z · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, full size picture books are much better than small collages, that way you get to see the detail in addition to the big picture.

      --
      Program Intellivision!
  3. My Town Put A Bid In.... by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 4, Funny

    We may not have extensive, cool underground caves, but we do have a nearly unlimited resource of young college-aged girls in warm sunny California weather right on the beach with an advanced technical university that can turn out underpaid interns by the droves. So suck it Quincy. =P

    --
    Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
    1. Re:My Town Put A Bid In.... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your newsletter, I WANTS!

    2. Re:My Town Put A Bid In.... by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2, Funny

      And to top it all off one of California's only nuclear power plants operating right in that high earthquake zone! I can't think of a better paradise frankly. Plenty of circus and wine for the locals, and if something fundamental gets fubarred we have a nice messy nuclear explosion to cover it all up*. Ah the promised land. =)

      *: So as to not lose geek cred, I do realize that Diablo Canyon will not be exploding anytime soon and that, in the event of an actual reactor issue, an explosion will not be the resultant phenomenon. For humor purposes, however, I enjoy pointing out the delicious absurdity of building a nuclear power plant near a fault line.

      --
      Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
  4. Fantasic Idea! by Kagato · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know if they will be google fiber finalist, but they make a very compelling argument for being a data center. Kudos for using the competition as a backdoor into media spotlight.

  5. no, caves suck by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1. they are hard to get to

    2. they are hard to get supplies to and build in

    3. they flood

    4. they have air quality issues

    5. and they ARE cool... until you put a bunch of servers in them, and then they heat up, and STAY hot, and are harder to cool than on the surface

    the idea of servers in caves sucks

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:no, caves suck by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was reading somewhere about the London Underground - how, when it opened, it was really nice and cool in the tunnels and everyone enjoyed a break from the summer heat... but a century of operations has heated the very bedrock, and now it's sweltering down there, and they're trying to figure out ways to effectively do air-conditioning in stations and on trains ... which can be tricky, since some of the tubes are so tight that there's not really anywhere for the waste heat to go. (They were talking about having the trains make blocks of ice while in other segments, and letting those melt while they're in the narrow under-the-river tubes).

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:no, caves suck by Swervin · · Score: 2, Informative

      1. they are hard to get to

      2. they are hard to get supplies to and build in

      3. they flood

      4. they have air quality issues

      5. and they ARE cool... until you put a bunch of servers in them, and then they heat up, and STAY hot, and are harder to cool than on the surface

      the idea of servers in caves sucks

      1. Having seen these caves first hand, I know for a fact that a good many of them can be driven into directly, doesn't get much easier to get to than that.

      2. (See 1)

      3. Haven't seen or heard of much flooding in these.

      4. The ones I've driven past have massive ventilation fans outside, and can handle removing vehicle exhaust. What are you doing to the air quality in there that's worse than exhaust? Burrito day?

      5. Not sure on 5, but they do manage to store refrigerated goods in them, as another poster points out. I'd handle this by drilling wells into the floor of the cave and circulating water if the cooling wasn't sufficient.

    3. Re:no, caves suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      1) Believe it or not, roads are allowed to lead to caves.

      2) Believe it or not, roads are allowed to lead INTO caves.

      3) Really? Every cave in the world floods?

      4) What air quality issues?

      5) Anything more then conjecture?

      This list sounds like the typical I'm-13-years-old-and-know-how-to-use-a-computer-so-I-think-I-know-everything bullshit that normally fills /.

    4. Re:no, caves suck by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hmm... Then why are companies like Iron Mountain building out LARGE datacenters in caves?

      (In most cases, former mines/quarries.)

      1) Not caves large enough to drive vehicles in - many mines meet this criteria
      2) Same answer as 1 for supplies, for 2 - in many cases they were already "built" for previous purposes (usually, getting valuable materials out of the ground)
      3) Not if they're above the water table - many are. Iron Mountain's is, and apparently they're planning on using a nearby underground lake for cooling soon.
      4) Not if built/designed correctly.
      5) Iron Mountain and the like would prefer to disagree with you on that.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    5. Re:no, caves suck by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Obviously these are man made caves. Not naturally formed ones carved by water. Man made caves tend to follow grid patterns because they are planned with the thought in mind to rent the space out. They will leave massive walls and pillars spaced out every 50 feet or so.

      Also, caves with heavy usage are not going to be friendly to bats, which don't like being disturbed by 18 wheelers driving past every 20 minutes.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    6. Re:no, caves suck by T+Murphy · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be missing something. The bad guys in spy movies often put their secret bases in caves, complete with big computers with lots of unnecessary buttons and screens. Super villains know what they are doing, so I'm sure caves are an excellent choice.

      --
      My webcomic
    7. Re:no, caves suck by Swervin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      3. they flood

      Depends on the cave. Of course, if you're going to build a dam a scant three miles away and vastly raise the water table, well, it's probably going to be a concern with this cave.

      Dam is already there, they're just adding a hydro electric plant to it. Lock and Dam 21

    8. Re:no, caves suck by ErikLalande · · Score: 3, Interesting

      These caves don't flood. Monster food companies use them to store food in, and they are a mile from the river.

    9. Re:no, caves suck by anotherone · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're manmade caves made from limestone mining.

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    10. Re:no, caves suck by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2, Funny

      The dirt usually doesn't just magically disappear something has to take it away.

      Shovels in this case.

    11. Re:no, caves suck by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here are some specifics on the Underground Warehouses facilities in Quincy, IL:

      1. It has its own traffic light

      2. semi trucks haul loads in and out of the existing warehouse

      3. not in 1993, 1997, or 2008 did the underground warehouses flood, although Illinois Route 57 was closed getting to them from one direction requiring a detour.

      4. Many of the employees park their cars inside the caverns, trucks run in and out, materials are still mined in parts of the complex, and the break room where employees eat is built inside. It's dusty, but the ventilation is good.

      5. There are temperature controlled sections in the warehouses already, including a huge frozen food handling area. The whole room is below freezing, workers, palette storage, inspection conveyors, and all. The room is the size of a major-chain pharmacy like CVS. If it wasn't for equipment, you could play soccer in the frozen section, and on a regulation-sized field.

      Back in the day, I worked a few weeks in the frozen foods section as a temp. These places are massive. You can work all day in one chamber and never hear what's going on in the others.

  6. Quicy, IL? by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, it's not a bad idea... Quincy, IL has three decent colleges nearby and a huge local technical population: two of the largest radio, television, and satellite transmitter manufacturers, Harris and Broadcast Electronics, are based in Quincy.

  7. Cave as a work environment by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've worked in the Kansas City caves and sat behind a desk on a computer for a while. It's fascinating for the first day but that ends quickly. The lack of sunlight and outdoor exposure really gets to drain on you week after week. Imagine getting up and going outside for some fresh air but when you go outside it's very dark, humid, claustrophobic, and the air is stale. It drives you nuts. Especially when you hear creaks and cracks all day in the dead of silence. I would not want to be an IT admin working in a cave.

    --
    Camping on quad since 1996.
    1. Re:Cave as a work environment by eshbums · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've worked in the Kansas City caves and sat behind a desk on a computer for a while. It's fascinating for the first day but that ends quickly. The lack of sunlight and outdoor exposure really gets to drain on you week after week. Imagine getting up and going outside for some fresh air but when you go outside it's very dark, humid, claustrophobic, and the air is stale. It drives you nuts. Especially when you hear creaks and cracks all day in the dead of silence. I would not want to be an IT admin working in a cave.

      Did you type 4 8 15 16 23 42 over and over again during the course of your day?

  8. Re:Be safe! by ErikLalande · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thats not the point. The point is that Quincy's underground data center would be a backup for Chicago, KC, or St Louis's if they ever got hit with a dirty bomb. The fact that its a cave just means that Google wouldn't have to invest millions of dollars to create a hardened data center, because it does that naturally.

  9. The Republic by ravenscar · · Score: 2, Funny

    This sounds like Plato's version of a server farm.