Slashdot Mirror


Fatal Flaw Discovered In Invisibility Cloaks

KentuckyFC writes "Carpet cloaks took the world by storm last year because they were the first devices to hide objects at optical frequencies. The idea is that a thin layer of dielectric material placed on a surface can make light look as if it is reflecting off the original surface. In other words, the layer is invisible and anything embedded within it is invisible too. This trick is like hiding something under a carpet, hence the name. Carpet cloaks are relatively easy to make because the dielectric material does not need to be specially constructed to steer light in special ways; physicists call this an isotropic material. Now a group at MIT has shown that isotropic carpet cloaks have a fatal flaw. When viewed at an angle, the carpets don't hide objects at all. Instead, they simply shift their position by about the same distance as they are high. So when viewed from an angle of 45 degrees, an object 0.2 units high is shifted to one side by a distance of 0.15 units, says the team. That's a serious limitation for carpet cloaks."

56 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. bummer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    bummer.

    1. Re:bummer by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Funny

      They should be working on a "Somebody Else's Problem" field. I hear that this is much easier than trying to much around with physics.

    2. Re:bummer by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They did. Then they switched it on, and ever since they are seeking the device.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:bummer by halivar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Unfortunately, every member of the search team is slacking off, assuming someone else is looking for it.

    4. Re:bummer by INT_QRK · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They don't have to be perfect; they just have to be good enough. Nor do that have to work all the time; they just need to work when needed, and for just long enough to allow the first shot. ("Spock, what's tha...doh!")

  2. Wrong Cloak by LaminatorX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So what they're saying is it's more of a Cloak of Displacement? While less stealthy, I think that's actually better odds of avoiding the hit than the penalty for attacking an invisible opponent.

    1. Re:Wrong Cloak by meerling · · Score: 4, Funny

      Better a D&D reference than another of the endless Harry Potter ones...

  3. I guess? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah - you aren't invisible, but wouldn't that still make the tracking missile miss you?

    1. Re:I guess? by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depends on the size of the missile...

    2. Re:I guess? by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not if it realizes you're likely behind a cloak and just adjusts itself with some nifty math.

      But ... that was my first thought as well.

      Okay, so I'm not invisible, but you still don't actually know where I'm at so its close enough for a lot of neat things.

      I suspect however, that much like in the fantasy of StarTrek (sorry to burst some of your bubbles :) and root kit detection, theres always a way to detect the target, but knowing the right way to look for it is half the battle.

      In general, Stealth aircraft just hide from radar. Sure they are difficult to see in general due to paint scheme and normal hours of operation and all that, but its biggest threat is from radar, and its very stealthy against that. But if you put any of the known stealth aircraft out in the middle of the clear sky, you can pick it up visually from a good distance during the day.

      You don't have to be invisible from every method of detection, just the one being used to detect you.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:I guess? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That depends. If the cloaks only affect visible light: No, the tracking missile would not miss you. Most missile guidance systems are still based on RADAR or IR, which do not use visible light.

      I'm willing to take my chances that Natalie Portman does not have tracking missiles in her bedroom.

      I would also assume that what you'd be hiding is so small as to render an invisibility cloak redundant.

    4. Re:I guess? by Weedhopper · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean in real life, as opposed to internet dick waving arguments? That depends.

      Depends on the size and type of warhead, the geology of the ground, the angle of the impact of the missile and the alignment of the tank relative to the strike.

      A "standard" 1000lbs conventional cruise missile warhead is a fragmentation/blast effect weapon. Against a 60-ton MBT, anything more than a couple meters away will have minimal effects on the crew, assuming they're buttoned up. Shaken and dinged up, maybe.

      OTOH, the tank itself may have been damaged and/or lost mobility but it's a far cry from having what's essentially a 1000 lbs land directly on the vehicle, in which case the tank is most assuredly dead and the crew does not survive.

      In terms of the very basic science, what about the explosion is the dangerous bit? Fragmentation and the pressure wave, plus possible secondary fragmentation if you're inside a vehicle. Tank armor is designed to protect against these threats, which is why hardware designed to kill tanks are specialized to either penetrate armor or strike where there is next to no armor (the top).

      Directly ON the tank, game's over. Next to the tank, now you're playing against the tank's strength, which is why I responded to badboy_2002 and interval1066 the way I did. A tank sittng right next to where the cruise missile hit is decidedly NOT about the same thing as a direct hit.

    5. Re:I guess? by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's about the size of the missile. The warhead is always listed in pounds but the potential is always listed in kinetic energy.

      For example, the BrahMos has 32 times the kinetic energy of the Tomahawk, despite having a warhead 3/5 the size. It is by far much more destructive than our Tomahawk because of its higher mass and higher velocity capability.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:I guess? by BForrester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's really not. Anti-tank weapons usually require a direct hit for a kill, or a very near hit to do significant disabling damage.

      For example,
        - smaller anti-tank missiles like the US Javelin or Soviet RPG use shaped charges (HEAT) that need to have virtually direct hits for the superheated metal core to penetrate armor.
        - air to surface missiles like the AGM-65 Maverick use kinetic energy to penetrate the target before exploding.
        - the Hellfire and various other popular TOW systems are only effective with hits perpendicular to the top of the vehicle.

      In these cases, a near miss is at most likely to cause a roll, secondary damage to the rad or tracks/tires, or the need to repaint the vehicle upon return to base.

  4. Military Applications by jornak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm sure a carpet cloak like this would have military applications, and in a desert environment like the Middle East, people aren't going to notice you unless they're close to you.

    A sniper on a ridge covered with one of these babies is still going to do the job.

    1. Re:Military Applications by idontgno · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's kinda sad that the evolving thought on Rules of Engagement is migrating back toward "Leave no witnesses" after a couple of decades of "kill the bad guys, don't even scratch the paint".

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  5. The fatal flaw is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They DON'T WORK!

    1. Re:The fatal flaw is: by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can't see how they could work.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:The fatal flaw is: by exley · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, the fatal flaw is that a cloaked object moving at warp speed emits a slight subspace variance. Adversaries performing an antiproton scan may also be a problem.

    3. Re:The fatal flaw is: by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      What if we modify the phase variance?

    4. Re:The fatal flaw is: by ryantmer · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am amused at the correlation between your comment and your sig. Well done, sir.

      --
      Whatever it is, it's notablog.
    5. Re:The fatal flaw is: by corbettw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought the problem was the expulsion of highly-charged particles? Plasma, or whatever it's called. After all, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    6. Re:The fatal flaw is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What if we modify the phase variance?

      yeah, as long as we randomly modulate the shield frequencies, reverse the polarity of the heisenberg compensators, and amplify the transporter buffers... we should be good to go. Earl Grey tea never tasted so good.

    7. Re:The fatal flaw is: by pedrop357 · · Score: 2

      Don't forget to note, and share with others, the differences between self-sealing stem bolts and warp matrix flux capacitors.

    8. Re:The fatal flaw is: by uglyduckling · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nah, that can easily be defeated by a tachyon burst, particularly if you invert the polarity of the shield harmonics.

    9. Re:The fatal flaw is: by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 2

      WSpock, "the solution is transparent to the user."
      Kirk, "now everyone knows why Kligons looked a scant shifty."

    10. Re:The fatal flaw is: by spazdor · · Score: 5, Funny

      This solution will never work.

      No one has even suggested routing extra power to the main deflector array yet.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    11. Re:The fatal flaw is: by spazdor · · Score: 2

      As far as anyone's sensors were concerned, that'd light you up like a Christmas tree.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    12. Re:The fatal flaw is: by choongiri · · Score: 3, Funny

      amplify the transporter buffers

      No, no, no. You need to narrow the angular confinement beam.

    13. Re:The fatal flaw is: by arfonrg · · Score: 2, Informative

      -1 You didn't get tachyon ANYWHERE in there....

      --
      Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    14. Re:The fatal flaw is: by fractoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't see how they could work.

      This is only about 'carpet cloaks', not invisibility cloaks in general. The problem is that a carpet cloak is the optical analogue of simply putting a display screen in front of the object and a video camera behind the object. In other words, of course it doesn't bloody work from the side, you morons. A general invisibility cloak is still possible, but may require phased array optics or other exotic active techniques.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  6. Soo.... by Some.Net(Guy) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When they were creating these cloaks, they didn't think to look at it from other angles than just straight on? Seriously? That's the equivalent of "it works on my machine."

    1. Re:Soo.... by e2d2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're making things invisible. It's kind of hard. So cut them a break? It's not like it's been done before and they just half-assed it after all.

    2. Re:Soo.... by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, they probably did and really knew about it for a long time, but geeks being geeks, these minor details probably didn't come out because they were so proud of what they had accomplished, and rightfully so. Even a cloak that works head on is freaking impressive to the point of becoming magic. I know they are just wave guides, but its still freaking impressive.

      With that in mind, someone comes a long and notices it a long time later and points it out and the scientists are like 'yea well, we haven't got to that part yet' and we get to here.

      Either way, they didn't say 'it only works from head on', they said something entirely different. Technically it doesn't appear to work 'head on' by certain definitions.

      They'll probably be lots of gotcha's for a while. Its new tech.

      Either way, if I can get one of these things so my son can have it when he's in high school it would be awesome. Muahahahahahaha

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  7. Finally!!! by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

    At last, my sig is actually appropriate for a slashdot story!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  8. Fatal Flaw Discovered In Invisibility Cloaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    You could bump into the invisible object.

  9. Props to Soulskill by magsol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...for making a Wing Commander reference (from the books, not the horrific movie that by coincidence has the same name) in the "department" byline for this story.

    --
    "I'd just like to emphasise that taking a million years isn't a metaphor here..." -Rich Bradshaw
  10. Pictures by brianleb321 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I demand more pictures of invisibility cloaks in articles about invisibility cloaks. Theory be damned.

    --
    Please stop pluralizing words with an apostrophe. That is not what it is there for.
    1. Re:Pictures by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the meantime, here's a close-up photo of a black hole.

  11. What happens... by d1r3lnd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What happens when you layer them? I mean, if you overlap a bunch of these invisibility carpets, what would you end up looking at?

  12. Shoot to miss by Mr.+Foogle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So when viewed from an angle of 45 degrees, an object 0.2 units high is shifted to one side by a distance of 0.15 units, says the team. That's a serious limitation for carpet cloaks.

    Maybe. But it would be a great way for soldiers to conceal themselves from aimed rifle fire.

    --
    Display some adaptability.
    1. Re:Shoot to miss by PinkFreud · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That might work. A 6 ft soldier would appear to be displaced by about 4.5', if that ratio holds.

  13. Re:All over the world by TheMeuge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From TFA:

    Zhang and co go on to prove their assertion by tracing a ray that passes through the kind of isotropic carpet cloak that Pendry suggested. What they've discovered will shock carpet cloakers all over the world.

    Yeah, all over the world.... uhm, all three of them. (Emphasis mine)

    The three that YOU CAN SEE...

  14. Disappointing by Mursk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know about you, but when I hear the phrase "fatal flaw," I really expect something a little more, I don't know... hilarious.

    --
    "This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
  15. So you're saying... by eegad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It took a team from MIT to walk to the side of the object, look at the object and report that the object could be seen? I think this cloak managed to hide something other than the object....

  16. 0.2 units high by 0.15 units? by Posting=!Working · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean, I know we all understand it, but if you're giving an example, why use unitless decimals when you can use integers and tangible concepts? Why not just say it would displace a 4 meter tall truck by 3 meters instead of 0.2 units tall object by 0.15 units?

    --
    This sentence no verb.
    1. Re:0.2 units high by 0.15 units? by Mursk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is that in Libraries of Congress?

      --
      "This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
  17. ever since they discoverd this theoretical flaw by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Funny

    in a theoretical device, i have been theoretically impressed

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  18. Re:Have they considered... by Genrou · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No. But they considered a sufficiently advanced technology.

  19. Re:Invisible post by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 2, Funny

    You can't see this post, oh wait, maybe you can...

    Yes, I can, but 1.5 posts below where it actually is.

    --
    This ain't rocket surgery.
  20. Cheer up by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, cheer up. It might still mean that the Romulan's weapons hit some nearby console when they think they're targeting the warp core. Of course, it would be better if they didn't hit anything at all, but I'm affraid that the law that for each hit a console must explode in a shower of sparks and send some ensign flying across the room is more immutable than the laws of refraction ;)

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  21. I see no sig... by foo1752 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm sorry, my "Disable sigs" preference has completely cloaked your sig.

    1. Re:I see no sig... by pedrop357 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Adjust your viewing angle

  22. Reverse the polarity? by Tetsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

    What if we modify the phase variance?

    yeah, as long as we randomly modulate the shield frequencies, reverse the polarity of the heisenberg compensators, and amplify the transporter buffers... we should be good to go. Earl Grey tea never tasted so good.

    Now see here... If the polarity of anything is to be reversed, then clearly we should start with the neutron flow...

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  23. Fatal flaw? by kurokame · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's a small thermal exhaust port.

    Many Bothans died to bring us the information that farting while wearing an invisibility cloak will give away your location.

  24. Suckers! by vm146j2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    You are falling right into the trap. Of course they want you to look at this cloak so that you don't notice the other one. The story is clearly part of a larger misdirection strategy. . .

    --
    "Lost time is not found again."