BitTorrent CEO On Net Neutrality

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BitTorrent CEO On Net Neutrality

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tuesday April 20, 2010 @12:48AM from the no-way-he's-biased dept.

angry tapir writes "According to BitTorrent CEO Eric Klinker, the Internet industry has to regulate itself by responding to consumer demands in the wake of the recent US federal court ruling that the Federal Communications Commission didn't have authority to enforce its net neutrality rules."

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BitTorrent CEO? by nacturation · 2010-04-20 00:50 · Score: 3, Funny

I didn't know a protocol could have a CEO. :)

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I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Pojut · 2010-04-20 00:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

...but unless you work for, are paid by, or represent an ISP, how can you support allowing ISPs to give preferential (or detrimental) treatment to different types of Internet traffic?

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Living With a Nerd
1. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Moryath · 2010-04-20 00:57 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No shit.
  The problem right now is PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE in their ISP.
  Or rather, the "choice" is between No ISP, Shitty company A, and if you're REALLY lucky, perhaps Shitty Company B.
  My area is an urban area. I'm "lucky" to have cable and DSL competing. Or really not, because it's Comrape and A-Titty-Twister "competing" with each other, which is to say, not competing at all.
  We can complain all day long, but we as consumers are fucked, because 90% or better of Americans live in an area where the only ISP has a monopoly, and the other 10% have a duopoly at best if they are lucky. And apparently, nothing short of an act of Congress (and I shudder since Obama and the rest of the Senators/"Representatives" are pretty much bought-off scumbags who don't represent us at all) will fix it.
2. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by GigsVT · 2010-04-20 01:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  If Internet service were properly metered like electricity is, then people who use a lot would simply pay more.
  Right now it's as if factories and houses were paying the same $300/month for electrical service, and the people in the houses were subsidizing the factories.
  On the Internet though, your neighbor can easily run a "factory" by simply seeding a bunch of torrents like an asshole, using all the bandwidth.
  
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  I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
3. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by 1s44c · 2010-04-20 01:05 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Obama and the rest of the Senators/"Representatives" are pretty much bought-off scumbags who don't represent us at all
  All politicals are 'bought-off scumbags' who don't represent anything more than their own self interest. Anyone who really cared would be terrified to have so much responsibility.
4. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Pojut · 2010-04-20 01:09 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  On the Internet though, your neighbor can easily run a "factory" by simply seeding a bunch of torrents like an asshole, using all the bandwidth.
  Or by watching cats all day on Youtube...or by watching TV episodes on Hulu all day, or streaming movies through Netflix all day, or any other number of bandwith-intensive activities.
  Torrent users are being targeted because they are the easiest ones to go after...what about the stay at home mom who streams Netflix and Hulu 8 hours a day, or the patent examiner who works from home and is constantly streaming c-span reruns to help with their research?
  There are a lot of high bandwith uses for the Internet that don't involve piracy or torrents...so why is it only torrents are being targeted?
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
5. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Moryath · 2010-04-20 01:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Anyone remotely honest doesn't have the kind of money needed to run these days, either.
6. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by spottedkangaroo · 2010-04-20 01:11 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Agreed.
  ... personally, I would love to move to a purely metered service, perhaps with some monthly minimum. I like my downloads to go really fast, but I rarely download things. My thinking is that the ISPs would very much overcharge for the transfers (at first), but overall this would be a much better model.
  The reality is that an ISP cannot make money reselling bandwidth at 10th the cost of the actual bandwidth if people are actually going to expect to be able to use it 24x7. That just doesn't make any kind of sense. So unless you're in the mood to backhaul your own T1 to your house (1.5megs sure sounds slow doesn't it ... $300/m not counting termination fees); how can you realistically expect the ISP to do this for you for $30/m? They can't. They depend on you not using it all the time or they can't make any money.
  So they're either going to fuck with our connections *or* we can pay for what we use. Something is going to give and I'd rather they treat all my traffic the same, so I'd rather pay for a metered service like I do with electricity.
  
  --
  Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
7. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by GigsVT · 2010-04-20 01:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Netflix streaming is surprisingly efficient.
  Yes, it's possible to run up a large amount in ways other than file sharing, but the passive, 24 hour, unattended nature of file sharing makes it far easier to run up a huge amount on.
  
  --
  I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
8. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by PopeRatzo · 2010-04-20 01:51 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  We can complain all day long, but we as consumers are fucked
  We're fucked as long as most consumers are so hypnotized by marketing and ubiquitous advertising that they are no longer able to make informed decisions based on their own best interests.
  They're glad to whip out the plastic and raise their credit limits no matter how much shit they have to eat, as long as it's...shiny.
  Until consumers understand that no corporation is their friend, and even the best of them will act badly, we're only going slide further into mercantile serfdom, where we exist to feed the corporations. Either that or we have to elect officials who will enact real consumer protections, with teeth. Since most politicians work for the corporations, that is unlikely.
  I'm afraid we're going to have to fight this war ourselves, or accept that things will get worse.
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
9. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by hitmark · 2010-04-20 01:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  i suspect its because its not about bandwidth, but the number of connections.
  it could very well be that the ISPs have calculated maybe 1-3 connections pr account (a web connection is only active while a page is downloading, same with mail and such), and so have grabbed cheap gear that can handle only that many connections at a time. But with torrents the count can hit 100+ fairly quickly, and multiply that by the number of accounts attached to a box and things hit industrial quite fast. And these connections are active 24/7, or at least as long as the computer is online.
  so the traffic have gone from 1-3 transient connections a minute, to 100+ a second.
  
  --
  comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
10. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by sckeener · 2010-04-20 01:53 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Anyone remotely honest doesn't have the kind of money needed to run these days, either.
  "The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed." by -Honore de Balzac
  which is normally paraphrased as 'Behind every great fortune there is a crime'.
  Thus the only way an honest man can get into congress is if a corrupt man helps him get there.
  Which leads into this quote "Now and then an innocent man is sent to the legislature." by Kin Hubbard (1868-1930)
  
  --
  "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
11. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by dkleinsc · 2010-04-20 02:16 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Actually, it turns out that the image of people spending oodles on worthless crap is not an entirely accurate picture. Watch and learn from Elizabeth Warren. Are there outliers? Sure, but the statistical trends she describes are very very clear.
  If you don't have time for the whole thing, one of her basic points is that middle class folks are not in fact buying lots of clothing or appliances or other shiny toys, but are spending far more on housing than they used to (for a house which is not much larger and probably older than what their parents would have bought in the 70's), and because of the higher fixed expenses have significantly less discretionary funds to spend and save. So on average an American middle class family is doing everything they can to reduce spending and still not making ends meet, much less have any savings available.
  
  --
  I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
12. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by tlhIngan · 2010-04-20 03:44 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  On the Internet though, your neighbor can easily run a "factory" by simply seeding a bunch of torrents like an asshole, using all the bandwidth.
  Or by watching cats all day on Youtube...or by watching TV episodes on Hulu all day, or streaming movies through Netflix all day, or any other number of bandwith-intensive activities.
  Torrent users are being targeted because they are the easiest ones to go after...what about the stay at home mom who streams Netflix and Hulu 8 hours a day, or the patent examiner who works from home and is constantly streaming c-span reruns to help with their research?
  There are a lot of high bandwith uses for the Internet that don't involve piracy or torrents...so why is it only torrents are being targeted?
  Because Bittorrent users upload. Cut the upload and they won't be targeted. Of course, that kinda negates the point of Bittorrent, but oh well.
  YouTube's a download activity. Ditto Hulu.
  You see, residential connections are horribly one-sided, optimized for downloads moreso than uploads (especially cable - any wonder why the biggest blockers are cable companies? Comcast, Time-Warner...). In fact on cable, it's so bad that a few users on the top tier high-speed plan can easily take down an entire node just by uploading at full speed, because no one else can fit their upload packets into the stream. And anyone who's played with a packet shaper knows what happens when you don't prioritize VoIP and online gaming. When the upstream is saturated, the internet is slow for everyone and latencies go through the roof.
  But downloading huge streams is easy for cable because the upstream requirement is very low while you're grabbing MTU-sized packets on the downstream (a tiny 64-byte TCP ACK packet for a 1460 user bytes), especially since the download bandwidth is effectively unlimited - there's just that much of it around.
  They're happy that people are using Hulu and Netflix and other stuff - download is effectively free, and there's actually enough of it to go around for everyone to stream all day. But uploads - well a few video chats and VoIP calls aren't doing too much (barely 100 kilobits in most cases) compared to the megabits that a few torrent users easily consume.
  Perhaps the only comparable activity to Bittorrent uploading 24/7 would be a VPN, but even VPNs tend to be at best very bursty and not continuous.
13. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Omestes · 2010-04-20 03:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  yes because everyone on slashdot never broke the law ONCE. We are all corrupt. Just at different levels of the scale.
  Breaking the law != corrupt.
  Corrupt is working against the people's best interests for some benefit of some 3rd party who is your benefactor. On that level I can safely state that most of Slashdot is not corrupt, because most of us are poor, unwashed, plebes whose only true power is choosing between Coke and Pepsi.
  Most of /. might possibly be corrupt if somehow power fell into our laps, but lacking power there is no real opportunity to be corrupt.
  Also, breaking the law doesn't always imply a bad thing, since legality doesn't imply morality.
  
  --
  A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
14. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Pojut · 2010-04-20 04:00 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  haha, you fucking dork. what level is your wizard up to?!? bahahaha
  None...he died...thanks for bringing it up, you insensitive clod!
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
15. Re:I know everyone is against the FCC and all... by Imrik · 2010-04-20 05:14 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I hear people always talking smack about how you can just change ISPs if you don't like something, but where exactly is this really a viable option?
  
  Everywhere but the US.
Self Regulate? by WrongSizeGlass · 2010-04-20 00:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

Doesn't "self regulation" usually result in services and pricing that always benefit the industry at the expense of the consumer?
1. Re:Self Regulate? by AnonymousClown · 2010-04-20 01:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  Doesn't "self regulation" usually result in services and pricing that always benefit the industry at the expense of the consumer?
  No, no, no. Here are some examples where it has worked:
  
  there's the ummmm
  and the ummmm
  and ....
  Never mind.
  --
  RIP America
  July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
2. Re:Self Regulate? by jonaskoelker · 2010-04-20 01:02 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Doesn't "self regulation" usually result in services and pricing that always benefit the industry at the expense of the consumer?
  Only if free markets don't work. I think if you're a libertarian or a liberal* economist, you believe that free markets work by assumption rather than because of the evidence (maybe even in spite of the evidence).
  (* liberal as in freedom, not left**-wing)
  (** by US standards)
3. Re:Self Regulate? by Pojut · 2010-04-20 01:05 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Unfortunately, the very thing that free markets require to function properly (greed) is also the very thing that causes them to fail -_-;;;
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
4. Re:Self Regulate? by Rogerborg · 2010-04-20 01:13 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Only if free markets don't work
  Free markets would work, but unfortunately they don't exist, at least not for long. The inevitable state for a mature market is monopoly or cartel, and the price of freedom is eternal regulation.
  
  --
  If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
How about by Anonymous Coward · 2010-04-20 00:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

We just GIVE the FCC the power to regulate (bitchslap) troublemaker isps like comcast.
The free market wont fix it. Nobody else will fix it. So make the FCC do something useful for a change.
Altho i'm not sure why we allowed internet provider greed to ever bring up net neutrality at all. Neutrality should just be the way things are by default.
We're just not a very bright species i guess. Or too many of us are getting paid one way or another to be tools for the isps. Sell everyone out for a buck.
Bittorrent != Piracy by Kirin+Fenrir · 2010-04-20 01:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Slight (mostly relevant) rant:

I'm a little tired of hearing "bittorrent" used as a synonym for "piracy". Do lawmakers, ISPs, and IP holders not realize that bittorrent has plenty of legitimate uses as a distributed filesharing platform? And I'm not just talking about Linux ISOs: One example is World of Warcraft, which has integrated bittorrent technology into it's patcher. For a piece of software that popular, not using bittorrent or something similar would probably bring down the patch server constantly.

Bittorrent != piracy (or copyright infringement). Stop using them in the same breath.

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1. Re:Bittorrent != Piracy by Bugamn · 2010-04-20 01:59 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I don't know how many people download pirate programs or pr0n, but I think it's more than 11.5M and they download a lot more than 474M each.
Whoever creates the monopoly, should regulate it by Sloppy · 2010-04-20 02:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm actually kind of glad it hasn't fallen under the FCC, because it just wouldn't make any sense. Whatever level of government is creating the monopolies, is who should be regulating. Cable Company has a franchise with your city? Then the city is the one who should demand neutrality (and any other necessary pros for the quids). And in the rare situations where an ISP doesn't have any monopoly force, there's no need to regulate them, because their customers and competitors can handle the job.
I know people generally hate this idea, because they don't want to get involved with local politics and only show up for general elections so they can vote party tickets, but tying the special favors directly to the restrictions is the right thing to do. If you don't like local politics, the problem is with you, not the fact that you have a local government. Get over it, face up to your responsibility, and demand some conditions the next time you use government to transfer your power to other private entities.

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