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Arizona Trialing System That Lets Utility System Control Home A/Cs
AzTechGuy writes "Arizona Public Service Co., Arizona's largest power company, is implementing a test program that would put customers' thermostats under their control to help balance power needs during critical peak usage times. APS will be able to remote control the customers' thermostats to control power draw from their A/C when there is a critical power transmission issue on the grid. Customers will be able to override these settings if they desire."
Your "peak periods" will correspond quite well with when it's 110 degrees in the shade... exactly when you want the AC the most.
Because when it's 104 degrees in Arizona, the people trialing this system will be content to let the power company turn their A/C down.
No, what'll happen is that all the people enrolled will just override the suggested settings, meaning that they'll have spent the money and still end up having brownouts.
I don't see this as being a smart move from -any- standpoint, unless you marketed it as a way for the power company to turn down the A/C units of homeowners who might not -be- at home during a peak time, but have left their systems running.
Having said that, anyone with pets will tell you that it can get hot enough that they need to be cooled-off too.
If firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? - George Carlin
Look, if I'm paying for power, in a government granted monopoly (as most power companies are) I'd better be able to use it how I wish, while paying for it with a reasonable fee based on what I use. If they can't provide what I'm paying for they should either A) Improve the service, B) allow other competitors C) be sued by their "customers". If we had -choice- in power companies, this might not be so bad, but sure, we have an override button in 2010... but in 2020 will we?
It is the most basic of rights to be able to use what you pay for. In many cases, if you don't like what a company wants you to do, you have action, you can A) change to a competitor or B) go without it. If I don't like Sony's policies on firmware updates for the PS3, I can just as easily buy a 360, Wii, or even decide not to buy a game console. But when it comes to electricity, theres no other providers and its just about impossible to go without electricity in 2010 (even most Amish will have electricity in their outbuildings).
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
What exactly are your enormous privacy concerns? This already exists here in toronto. This works well. The truth is, when they raise the temperature in your ac for a period of time, you don't notice it because the temperature change in your home is not instantaneous. By the time you notice the small change, if you do at all, it'll be back to your original setting.
The blurb makes it sound sinister IMo with stuff like "under their control". They're just trying to control the peaks so everyone has power.
It would create jobs... and energy...
Sounds like a GREAT FUCKING IDEA TO ME.
The next day, nobody goes to work as they haven't got enough battery power in their cars.
Why is it a stupid idea? It beats losing your power altogether, doesn't it? I imagine this would mostly affect people who are at work all day with the central air running full blast, the people who are home would just override it.
Bullshit.
You CAN go off grid. If I lived Arizona, I'd totally slap a couple of solar panels on my roof and hook those up to the AC. Don't give me this whiny "oh, but they have a monooooooooopoly" tripe. It's only a monopoly if you're too lazy or cheap to use the alternative energy sources. Especially not in a prime solar location.
Instead of trying to control individual ACs like this, they should be giving out massive credits to those who go to the expense of installing solar. Even where it won't pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time, installing solar panels will make a difference (probably not so much so in places like Seattle). I would imagine that if you could get 10% of the homes in the nation (even if you were just to do that in So Cal and Arizona and other perpetually sunny places) the relief on the grid would be enormous. With advances in solar cells, combining solar and hydrogen fuel storage/use, and other alternative energy technologies (wind, for example) there should be no problem in providing enough power.
The real problem is that the grid is ancient (relatively) and uses old, broken tech. Unfortunately the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply when you are pushing outdated technology way past its limits.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Parent is -1 Troll.
Smoothing out peaks in ways that minimally impact people is a great idea economically and environmentally.
"Don't allow the power companies to lower your power consumption (and the price you pay) when the system is on the verge of overload! Get higher capacity lines so we can burn more fossil fuels! Don't invest in renewable, just in methods to deliver more conventional power!"
I mean, I don't necessarily agree with the power companies being able to control your power like that; I'm just pointing out what your argument is in real terms.
I think I may, however, agree with a long-term override (aka opt-out) switch with this system, included in the current plan. I also may be inclined to agree with allowing for load-balancing (without them being able to change temperature) to reduce peaks and valleys.
To expand the power grid is expensive and hard to 'sell' to the shareholders.
They expect dynamic dot com era growth with anything tech they invested in.
Some US cities and areas did it right with community generators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_cooperative
Any profit is put back into hardware, running cost or users get some form of capital credits.
You also had Enron like profit pressure to milk demand on an old cold war grid.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I'm in Toronto, Ontario. It's about 8C out. Last night I left my AC off and I woke up drenched in sweat. I have no control over the heat in my apartment other than running the AC.
It does get sweltering hot here, but the problem is moreso the humidity than the actual temperature.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Which ISP is it, again, that lets you override download caps at will? I think that's an excellent idea-they can cap it, you say "override", no longer capped. There's also the fact that except during the highest peak periods, a lot of Net capacity remains unused, which is not true of energy.
This is probably for the morons who can't throttle back the A/C before leaving for work and wait 20 minutes for it to cool down after they get home. If it's just got to be cool when you walk in the door, get a programmable thermostat.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
It'll be voluntary today.
It'll be mandatory tomorrow.
If they weren't planning on making it mandatory, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
Seen it a billion times.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
These are Americans we are talking about. Any time the government or any utility tried to do something that is actually good for the people, they start seeing conspiracies and how the government want to kill and control them. It doesn't help that when one political party tries to introduce something good, the other party goes out and scares the shit out of it's citizens, all in the hope that they get elected next time around.
Here in Utah, Rocky Mountain Power offers a similar program (called "Cool Keeper"). They apparently recently tried to introduce legislation that would make the device mandatory for all new customers unless the customer knew of the program and specifically opted out in advance. And to my knowledge, there isn't any limit on RMP's activations like some other utilities have implemented, nor can the customer override the switch. I hope Arizona's system is more forgiving than that. Plus, I'm pretty sure RMP would actually save more money if they didn't spam us with fliers trying to upsell the program every few weeks (seriously, I get at least one or two packets a month year round). Imagine all the power it takes to make those.
It's less funny when you happen to be subject to "some error of unknown source" (yeah, sure) that ensures that you only have COLD water from November to somewhere in February in northern Europe... brrr.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Maybe you should open the window?
Jesus I cant believe how many people seem to leave aircon on during the day while at work etc, what exactly is the reason for this?? I am a UK expat living in Thailand...Thailand gets extremely hot and pushes 100% humidity regularly so aircon is wonderful however I only ever cool rooms im actually using and only when people are in the house, as does everyone else I know... If you cant stand being hot for even 30 mins while the rooms cool down can you not at least put things on timers to cool it before you get home from work??
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I know that as a UK resident you might believe you are part of the US but you are not... yet.
Anyway, there is a reason US citizens consume more then anyone else on this planet. It is a culture defined by entitlement. I can have the largest car, so I must have it and then I must use it.
I can have an airco, therefor everything must be airco'ed and it must run all the time.
An American really can't even deal with the notion that there might be something wrong with this attitude. Watch Mythbusters and their constant search for fuel efficiency in a 3 ton pickup with 1 person in it and no cargo. How about driving a smaller car? Oh, they do entire segments on how they get smashed between two trucks driving at top speed. No test of course if the results would be any different with a SUV (Answer: no, SUV's only share the fuel efficiency with tanks, not safety).
And the solution is terribly simple, pay more for your elec so that more power facilities can be built. But that is not an option either because all the profits go to shareholder, not into investments for the future.
It is an amusing system, you got Americans claiming they are the most advanced country, when large parts of the country regularly brown-out. California has had it for years, and no riots yet. When your electricity network is as reliable as one in Africa, maybe it is time to take a long hard look at the way you are running thing.
Don't worry, some American with mod points will remove this post to avoid to many Americans having to be upset by the truth.
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