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Arizona Trialing System That Lets Utility System Control Home A/Cs
AzTechGuy writes "Arizona Public Service Co., Arizona's largest power company, is implementing a test program that would put customers' thermostats under their control to help balance power needs during critical peak usage times. APS will be able to remote control the customers' thermostats to control power draw from their A/C when there is a critical power transmission issue on the grid. Customers will be able to override these settings if they desire."
What exactly are your enormous privacy concerns? This already exists here in toronto. This works well. The truth is, when they raise the temperature in your ac for a period of time, you don't notice it because the temperature change in your home is not instantaneous. By the time you notice the small change, if you do at all, it'll be back to your original setting.
The blurb makes it sound sinister IMo with stuff like "under their control". They're just trying to control the peaks so everyone has power.
Except, at least with the deal we got from So Cal Edison, we give them the right to shut off our air conditioner in exchange for a discount on our summer electric bill. I don't recall exactly how much of a discount on the energy they gave us, but considering that they never once actually killed our air con during the summer, I have no complaints whatsoever.
Parent is -1 Troll.
Smoothing out peaks in ways that minimally impact people is a great idea economically and environmentally.
You get a $25 rebate and a thermostat/switch, and they get to control your AC to adjust your temperature by 2-3 degrees. They cap the number of times the are allowed to do it at 10 times/year.
When can peaksaver be activated? on weekdays (Monday through Friday), most likely between 12:00p.m. to 6:00p.m. from May 1 to September 30. Never on weekends or holidays. for a maximum of ten activations during the summer and only for a total of four hours during any one activation. As an example; in 2008, the peaksaver program was activated only five times.
http://everykilowattcounts.ca/residential/peaksaver/understanding-electricity-demand.php
It'll be voluntary today.
It'll be mandatory tomorrow.
If they weren't planning on making it mandatory, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
Seen it a billion times.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
While I can't quite tell if you're trolling or simply greedy, there's a certain logic behind your argument.
Right now, electricity cannot be economically stored, so generation capacity has to equal peak demand, or else someone gets browned out. Utilities go to elaborate lengths to estimate future demand, based on housing construction, industrial zoning, winter temperatures, summer temperatures, etc. They build right to the edge of what their predicted demand will be, and rely on peak plants to supplant their generation capacity during those times when they've guessed wrong. But those peak plants charge 30X or more than the average generating rate, so there's strong incentive to not use them.
What they're doing by all this penny pinching and building right to the edge of demand is they are thinning the tolerances. In the past, many things worked well or lasted long simply because they were massively overbuilt. For example, rather than fully study and understand the material strength of an aluminum engine block with steel cylinder sleeves, they cast the engine block out of iron. Rather than measure and predict the load to within 1% of future demand, they built a plant with double or triple the planned capacity. Those systems lasted a long time as a result, and people got very used to the high availability of their services.
And in case you were serious, the correct economic answer is yes, they should offer you the extra capacity, as long as you're personally willing to pay the price. My electric company offers demand pricing. Normal pricing is $0.11/kWH for household use, regardless of what you're using the power for. But if you willing to let them control your air conditioner, you pay only $0.055/kWH for all the electricity your A/C consumes throughout the year, plus they discount your bill by $10/month for June, July and August. Control consists of a rolling 15-minutes-on/15-minutes-off duty cycle during peak demand. My heat pump was controlled for a total of 90 hours last summer, and the difference was hardly noticeable. When my heat pump was cut in the winter, the gas furnace kicked in as needed. I save several hundred dollars per year on this program.
John
Residential systems usually don't have heat storage, but larger systems, with chilled water, often do. Some even make ice at night when power is cheap, to be melted during the day. It would be helpful to have a few hours advance notice of a hot period, so that the system could chill down an insulated water tank for use later.
Power companies generally have a load curve planned a day ahead. That info is available; here's PJM's dashboard, which tells you far more than you ever wanted to know about the power grid for the northeastern United States. (Load right now: 55,292 megawatts. 1,896 megawatts of that is wind power. Spinning reserves are 2,274 MW. Current trouble report: "As of 09:30 hours, a Non-Market Post Contingency Local Load Relief Warning of 11 MW in the Rachel Hill area of FE (PN) has been issued for Transmission Contingency Control. Post Contingency Switching: Open Roxbury at Shadegap, Close Threesprings at Shadegap, open Curryville at Claysburg, open Snakespring at Bedford North." Tomorrow's estimated peak is around 71 gigawatts, expected at 17:30 hours.) The estimation system uses historical data and weather reports, plus bid info from really big users. So one can plan a day ahead if your HVAC system has heat storage.
Routine control is exercised by financial means - all the players submit bids, which have a time range, a low output and price, a high output and price, and a ramp value. The control center crunches on these and decides who generates how much power. Large power buyers can bid, too; they have the option of saying how much they'll cut their load as the price rises. A big data center might choose to be a market player. When there are troubles, the control center can take "non-market actions", like the one above, but most of the time, the outstanding bids determine who does what.
California went too far in deregulation, and had electricity auctions every half hour at one point. There were brokers and dealers who were pure speculators, and this affected live power operations in real time. That caused so much churn that there were blackouts. So now, bids are for a day ahead, and the matching of supply and demand is algorithmic. All this data is public, to keep the markets honest. That's why PJM offers such detailed data about their power grid.