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How To Get 39 Megapixels From a 53-Year-Old Camera
G3ckoG33k writes "An article at The Register Hardware describes how Hasselblad film cameras dating back to 1957 can be given a new life using a digital back to get images at a super resolution of 39 megapixels. From the article: 'The CFV-39 digital back allows you to get those cameras out from the last century and use the V-System cameras with their beautiful glass once again, it simply fits in place of where the roll film used to be. Hasselblads have never been inexpensive, but talk about a return on investment. Here is a manufacturer looking after a fiercely loyal user-base and along with it offering what could be seen as the ultimate green camera system.' Oh, by the way most pictures taken during the Apollo space program in the 1960s were taken with Hasselblad." Hasselblad's been making digital backs for quite a while now, but this one's very impressive in speed (and cost — "only" about $14,000) compared to earlier models.
Film. You know, that cellulose acetate image capture and storage medium that uses silver halides? You might remember it from "last century".
Why not just shoot a $4 roll of film, and scan it on a $200 flatbed scanner at a mere 2400DPI for a fat 30 megapixel image, plus you have an in-camera archival backup slide, which can later be drum-scanned at an even higher resolution if needed?
And you don't even need batteries.
It's nice to see a capability like this being added to such an old design. Personally I'd like to see a camera manufacturer or third party come out with digital versions of old manual focus SLR greats like the K1000, or produce reasonably priced digital backs for them.
I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive.
I own a blad, but there is no way I can afford this back (yet). Nor would it be justified for the shooting I do. That said, if Nikon would offer backs that would fit their older cameras I would be in the market, especially if they were <$1000 and FX sensor size, even if "only" 6 to 10 MP.
Dear Nikon:
I want a digital back for my F3HP and my 90s please.
-nB
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That's not the point, cellphones can have a ton of megapixels but with their tiny lens setup the image will be garbage no matter how fine grained the sensor is. This isn't about getting more megapixels, it's about getting digital images out of expensive old cameras with very expensive lens setups.
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One thing you just cannot physically get with small lenses and small CCD-areas like in you phone is plenty of light without too much distortions. There's a reason there's a DSLR market. And i you want to to make a moving picture, you're gonna have to settle with even lesser amounts of light per frame/photo per unit area, which is why almost any good movie camera is an oversized machine on wheels with cannons (not the brand!) for lenses. Obviously there's a good enough for people like you and me, but Hasselsblads are targeted at the high end of high end, for the cases in which physics leaves you no other choice.
There have been digital backs for Hasselblads before. But it's not really such a great deal: you're connecting an expensive digital back to an optical system that wasn't designed for digital image capture, and a heavy mirror box, film crank, and viewfinder that you don't need with modern digital sensors. Oh, and for all that trouble, your lenses don't even work the way you're used to since the sensor is rectangular and smaller than medium format film. And at the rate sensor technologies improve, you can expect that this thing is obsolete in a couple of years.
Why would your cat have its own fridge, and why would you hang your photos there?
Two problems. The sensor is barely what could be called "medium format". The article says these sensors are 36.7 x 49 mm. That's basically twice the size of the standard 35 mm frame (36 x 24 mm). Even 6x4.5 is bigger than that.
The other problem is bigger - price. For $14K you could get several medium format film cameras and lenses (e.g Hasselblad/Zeiss, Mamiya, Fuji, Bronica, etc), a very good film scanner (e.g Hasselblad Flextight X5), a big server to store your scans on, plus a fridge full of film.
You'd only go the digital route if you need fast turn-around. For everything else, I'd rather go the film option, thanks.
It is called raw, but the other reply is otherwise incorrect. Some older DSLRs (early 2000s) used to have a TIFF option, but that isn't the same thing, just a lossless version of the processed image. RAW output is the data read off the sensor, and is pre-bayer, and other processing (usually with some lossless compression applied). Meta-data is also included, like focal length, and exposure settings.
My camera will also work after an EMP - I doubt yours will, and I also doubt your digital pictures will remain intact after such an event.
Ditto my manual-everything lenses.
The photographer on the other hand probably won't survive the nuclear blast that produced it. Yes, there's a few other ways but it's more experimental science than a practical weapon. That goes both if you're going to a war zone or you happen to be a terrorist victim, they prefer the conventional bombs.
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Cat is diabetic, insulin stored there.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Are you out of your mind? Every time I finish a shoot with medium format and Polaroids I throw out a small baggie full of trash: boxes, wrappers, polaroid crap, etc. Then I use a couple liters of distilled water (that I burn gas, to get it to my house) and a bunch of chemicals to actually get an image - oh yeah, that generates trash too (film cassettes, 120 film paper backing, spools, etc). The landfill space needed to cover 5 years of shooting is magnitudes greater than for digital.
Hell, they just stopped making Neopan 400 because a toxic chemical was used to make it.
JPEG2000 never took off because it has problems with it's wavelet compression, details just blur out. Have a read: http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=317
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/JPEG_JFIF_and_2000_Comparison.png
They've been doing this ever since the first digital backs came out in 1992. You put the back on your 'blad (or, generally speaking, any MF cam you can mount your back on to - I've seen hacks putting them onto Rollei TLRs), connect a cable to PC sync port in the lens (where the shutter is) and you're good to go. If you need to trigger strobes, most backs have their own PC sync. Ta-da.
Seriously, you can put a MF back on a shoebox with a pinhole in it and you'll get a picture, just short the PC sync cable to fire it. Soooo not news.
But apparently they're still too bloody expensive.
For the same price you could get a nice full-frame 35mm DSLR, and some good glass. I'd wager it would be a wee bit more usable too.
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Loss-less would be ideal but would run even modern data cards down to nothing in meantime.
Lossless RAW is the only way anyone will shoot with such a camera and back, but it's not a problem. A 64 GB CF card would hold over a thousand images, and medium format is used for shooting landscapes, not action. The cameras are big, heavy, used on a tripod and taking photographs with one is normally a process of minutes to hours of setup followed by a handful of shots.
There are a few photographers that use medium format for portraits, but it's rare. And even then you're talking about dozens of shots, not thousands.
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Maybe it will if marketing wants it to but if it does they will be shit 50 megapixel shots.
The trouble is putting lots of megapixels on a small sensor doesn't work very well for a couple of reasons.
Firstly the coverage factor is poor on small high resolution sensors, most sensor types need some space between the active cells for various reasons, so more pixels means LESS active area.
Secondly as I understand it (i've done a little bit on optics but i'm not an expert) depth of field is related to the ratio between aperture and sensor size. So if you want lots of light (and you DO want lots of light because of "shot noise") AND a reasonable depth of field you need a big sensor.
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I'd like to see a hack of old movie cameras. If someone would replace the film cartridge area with a cheap, off-the-shelf elctronic video system, that would be awesome.
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I routinely shoot the other way around: old Pentax and Nikon lenses on my DSLR (Canon Digital Rebel series), with suitable lens adapters. The best adapters are the M42 to EOS adapters, which let you use Pentax screwmount lenses. The digital imaging doesn't cut you any slack, a crummy lens makes crummy pictures, while a good lens makes good pictures. Plus all that old-fashioned lens flare, cool bokeh, and more. Fun.
The Nikon adapters aren't as solid. Maybe it's the fault of my cheap Ebay adapter. Nikon made some amazing lenses in the F2/F3 era.
Forget automation, of course: stop down metering, manual focus.
...laura
Yes, but that's for 35mm format. You're talking roughly $3 per frame for the developing alone, no prints. And if you want them to do the prints you're probably talking about at least another $7 there. At that rate, you'd break even at only 1400 prints.
You're definitely not going to equal the quality with any 35mm or digital of similar frame size. It's just not going to happen, even with expert technique.
Not to mention that a scanned image will never achieve the same quality as a born-digital picture. Also, convenience. If you take hundreds of shots, and factor in the time spent in getting them processed, then scanned, you'll be loosing a lot (compare to just plug in your camera and there are your pictures).
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
And i you want to to make a moving picture, you're gonna have to settle with even lesser amounts of light per frame/photo per unit area,
Actually, when shooting motion pictures on film, the typical shutter speed is 1/48th of a second to provide proper motion blur, while that shutter speed is considered fairly long by still photography standards. You can get away with shooting movies with a lot less light than a still photographer is going to be able to get away with.
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It's not just the lenses, the image sensors are much smaller in cellphones and cheap cameras. High end cameras use larger image sensors, which allow more photons per-pixel. More photons means more accurate light sensing.
In other words, a high end camera with no lens will have significantly better color and contrast, and as a result better detail and clarity, than a cellphone camera even if they have the same number of megapixels. Add in the lenses, and high end cameras are better in every way. Because of this, a professional grade 5mp camera is almost always better than even a consumer grade 10mp camera. It all comes down to physics.
Note that that's also why professional grade cameras tend to be very large - bigger image sensors means everything connected to the image sensor needs to be bigger as well, and the feature-sets of these cameras only add to that size.
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Having to control all camera options with the same dial is a big deal, because it leads to mode errors: you turn the dial thinking that you're going to change the aperture, but instead it changes the shutter speed, so then you have to turn it back to the aperture you were at, change the mode to shutter speed mode, and do it again. In the meantime, you missed your shot.
The higher-end DSLRs have more than one control dial and are therefore less prone to this issue. However, the problem is that DSLRs allow per-shot ISO changes, so they really should have three control dials: one for shutter speed, one for aperture, and one for ISO (or in P mode, one for exposure compensation, one for program shift and one for ISO shift).
The problem there is that the low-end DSLRs have really bad, small, dim viewfinders that don't allow good judgement of critical focus. The viewfinders are small and dim compared to old manual focus 35mm film SLRs because the frame size on common DSLRs is smaller, which means that there's less light compared to a 35mm frame. Also, because of the autofocus systems use a significant fraction of the light, they have to use a focus screen that's not as good for manual focus as what existed on old manual-focus only DSLRs.
To make it worse, the manual focus rings on autofocus lenses tend to be bad compared to old manual focus lenses. This is usually because autofocus systems work best if the lens focus system has a very short travel from infinity to closest focus, but that makes it very bad for precise manual focus. Newer lenses with electronic focus rings can probably be made to have nicer focus action than the old manual lenses, though.
Are you adequate?
I've still got the Hasselblad I bought when I graduated college. It cost me $1000 and was all the money I had back then. With a kid in college now, there's no way I could ever afford a digital back for my camera. But the notion of being able to shoot in that beautiful square format and then upload the huge RAW file to Photoshop is a dream.
While I'm dreaming, I'd like to be able to afford a digital back for my 11x14 Deardorff, too.
(my wife says "Dream for 10 million dollars and a thicker cock, while you're at it". Thanks a lot, hon.)
You are welcome on my lawn.
The f-number which decides the depth of field is the ratio between the aperture and the focal length.
The real reason behind why small sensors does not work well with many pixels, is because it will make less light retrieved by individual pixel sensor (i.e. sensel). Since manufacturer tries to cramp as much pixels on a small patch, the image will worsen especially in low-light environment.
This is why FF (full-frame sensor, 135 film equivalent) and 6x6 (Hasselbrad V-system in TFA) has its market.
Great, as someone who has had to dispose of a photo development machine I can tell you it starts with a big jug of liquid that according to the MSDS cuases death with sufficient exposure, and ends with another big jug that will only destroy all of your membranes.
Good thing regular photography with all the wasted shots, deadly chemicals, and printed paper is so safe for the environment.
A high-end camera with no lens will give you grey or black, or occasionally multi-colored blurry, fuzzy blobs at the very best. I think you meant "a high end camera with the most basic kit lens"
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Not exactly. According to the specs the sensor has a 37mm x 49mm frame. 6x6 film has a 56mm x 56mm frame. So part of the lens circle will be "cropped" making those old lenses slightly more telephoto.
I really happy if Nikon can produce Digital Back CCD for Nikon F4, the best Nikon SLR camera I ever use. Or, the new DSLR based on Nikon F4 body. Really love the buttons and switches.
Not quite.
Noise is dependent on sensor size. The bigger the sensor, the less noise you have in the image.
It's always a little cool and crushing to see someone actually doing the things I talk about. I've actually been thinking that It needs to be a generic 35mm digital back. There ought to be plenty of room for a substantial battery and memory/processing with those two big spaces either side of the area of exposure.
Here's to people who actually follow through on those nifty ideas which seem to float around looking for a patch of fertile motivation.
ivan
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It costs a lot more than $3 to develop a roll of medium-format film.
I often just turn my resolution down on my consumer grade camera.
The 8 MP (or is it 10?) just gives more white noise. No point, unless you want to fill up your hard drive, and slow down online backups.
He also keeps his last cat in there.
Maybe he's doing pinhole photography.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You're missing one of the big reasons those cameras are expensive, which is that they are niche products and don't benefit from the economies of scale in mass-market cameras.
Not if the sensor is smaller. All else being equal, larger sensor or film means higher quality pictures. And need I remind you that the Hasselblad is a medium format camera?
This is very often demonstrably false, but granted, there are some truly excellent non-pro lenses.
But once more, one of the reasons larger sensors lead to better image quality is because it's less demanding of the lenses. Even if you use the exact same lens on two cameras with different sized sensor, you'll get higher resolution with the same lens from the larger sensor.
Are you adequate?