One Year Later, USPS Looks Into Gamefly Complaint

Last April, we discussed news that video game rental service GameFly had complained to the USPS that a large quantity of their game discs were broken in transit, accusing the postal service of giving preferential treatment to more traditional DVD rental companies like Netflix. Now, just over a year later, an anonymous reader sends word that the USPS has responded with a detailed inquiry into GameFly's situation (PDF). The inquiry's 46 questions (many of which are multi-part) cover just about everything you could imagine concerning GameFly's distribution methods. Most of them are simple, yet painstaking, in a way only government agencies can manage. Here are a few of them: "What threshold does GameFly consider to be an acceptable loss/theft rate? Please provide the research that determined this rate. ... What is the transportation cost incurred by GameFly to transport its mail from each GameFly distribution center to the postal facility used by that distribution center? ... Please describe the total cost that GameFly would incur if it expanded its distribution network to sixty or one hundred twenty locations. In your answer, please itemize costs separately. ... Does the age of a gaming DVD or the number of times played have more effect on the average life cycle of a gaming DVD?"

Comments

Crashes Foxit

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one that's seeing the PDF crash Foxit Reader somehow?

Is it me?

[topham]

Is it me, or is GameFly being dicked around?

Some of the questions look valid, but others are completely obtuse and look like they are designed to waste GameFly's time and resources, not resolve the problem.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a court filing. Of course it will consume time and resources.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it me, or is GameFly being dicked around?

The USPS is a for-profit company backed by the federal government. They don't dick around; they find people in the Alps.

Re:Is it me?

[cyberzephyr]

Yes.

Re:Is it me?

[stephanruby]

Some of the questions look valid, but others are completely obtuse and look like they are designed to waste GameFly's time and resources, not resolve the problem.

I agree. That being said, as a Netflix customer, I can pretty much testify to the fact that my mail man used to break an awful lot of DVDs trying to shove them in my mailbox and then try to close it (so he could get back his keys, I live in a four apartment building so it's a set of four mailboxes he opens together). It became such a problem, I took down my subscription from 4 DVDs to only 1 DVD at-a-time. Usually, it's when there was more than one DVD in there, that at least one of them would break (or at least warp so badly, that it became completely unplayable).

One fix would have been to ask my landlord that he install a bigger set of mailboxes, but the space in the brick wall is so limited, that any change would become a major construction project to replace anything (so I didn't even ask). Another fix is to try to talk to the mail man, but for some reason, my route is not considered a good one (although, it's still a good neighborhood), so it's nearly a different person delivering the mail every week. Another fix would be to have an additional mailbox made especially for DVDs (that, assuming there was an easy way to attach it to my existing mailbox, I would buy in a jiffy).

Re:Is it me?

[JustOK]

rockies, mebbe, but not the alps.

Re:Is it me?

[91degrees]

Given that Gamefly is losing millions here, relatively speaking, it's not going to be a major pain for them to answer these questions. It makes sense to be thorough.

Re:Is it me?

[iamhassi]

"Is it me, or is GameFly being dicked around?"

Without a doubt. GameFly basically said last year "Look dude, you keep breaking my shit and you handle my competitors shit with silk gloves. WTF?"

USPS responses a year later with "We don't know what you're talking about. We want copies of all research on all mailer designs you've tested, including the results of each test and what advantages or disadvantages were found and the research used to determine these advantages or disadvantages."

USPS even accused GameFly of stealing their own games:
"Please describe any measures GameFly undertakes to manage or limit theft. In your answer please include the anti-theft procedures utilized in GameFly’s own plants and during transit of GameFly mail to and from postal facilities."

W...T....F.... USPS are you serious? So, if I call you and say "hey my mail keeps disappearing" are you going to tell me "what are YOU doing to stop it?"

And like the article says, some of these questions are just ridiculous, like: "USPS/GFL-28. Please describe the total cost that GameFly would incur if it expanded its distribution network to sixty or one hundred twenty locations. In your answer, please itemize costs separately."

So USPS wants them to just figure out how much it would cost to expand to 60 or 120 locations, and then give them a itemized cost of doing so? That alone could, if done realistically, take hundreds of man hours, to determine where these 60 or 120 locations would be best located and the cost opening up a new facility in each of those areas.

USPS even wants GameFly to analyze the material DVDs are made of:
"USPS/GFL-30. Has GameFly conducted any testing related to materials used in the DVDs it distributes or that it is aware respective manufacturers have undertaken? In your answer please describe the tests and any results from the tests, including breakage rates for the materials tested."

This is a giant middle finger from USPS to GameFly if I've ever seen one.

USPS, you didn't have to be such an ass, a simple "Ok we'll give you the same treatment as Netflix and Blockbuster" would have been the right thing to do.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's only one solution to this bullshit.
From now on we kill a postal worker every time they fuck up our mail.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

find a stranger in the Alps

Re:Is it me?

[Hurricane78]

Sounds like the definition of a government agency to me. ;)

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

That alone could, if done realistically, take hundreds of man hours, to determine where these 60 or 120 locations would be best located and the cost opening up a new facility in each of those areas.

This could cost thousands. Since that's a few hours worth of losses due to theft/breakages it's not too huge a demand.

Re:Is it me?

[xaxa]

Sounds like the definition of an American government agency to me. ;)

FTFY ;-)

Re:Is it me?

[stephanruby]

Or get your lazy ass out of the house and use a USPS drop box. Just sayin'

a drop box? I think you misunderstood. It gets broken when I receive it, not when I send it back.

Re:Is it me?

[Lord Byron II]

Just because you're asked a bunch of questions, doesn't mean that you have to waste time answer each and every one. Just answer the relevant ones and for the irrelevant ones, provide a short explanation why it is irrelevant.

I find it hard to believe that USPS has a "be gentle" policy with Netflix and a "crush 'em" policy with GameFly.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

He means a P.O. box that you can rent. You can get one that's about 8" high and a foot wide if you need it.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you misunderstood. A dropbox is a PO box where the mail is dropped off instead of being delivered. You then have to visit the post office to collect the mail.

Re:Is it me?

[batrick]

Wrong, the USPS is "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States" [1]. Although my wallet disagrees, the government is definitely non-profit. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

Re:Is it me?

[Yamata no Orochi]

Sounds like a post written in English to me. ;)

You see? It's goofy to bring up something that's already implied and understood by everyone reading it.

Re:Is it me?

[shoebucket]

Seeing as how Netflix offers DVD and Blu-Ray movies, and Gamefly offers video games... I fail to see how they are competitors, rather than offering complementary services? I've actually been surprised that they haven't yet joined forces.

Re:Is it me?

[tophermeyer]

W...T....F.... USPS are you serious? So, if I call you and say "hey my mail keeps disappearing" are you going to tell me "what are YOU doing to stop it?"

Regarding this point, I think this is pretty much a USPS standard policy. I have had two separate instances where packages delivered through USPS have gone missing. USPS claims they were delivered, I never received them. On both instances, I had the same kind of response from them, and it didn't really surprise me. After all, they are leaving video game disks in mailboxes that are frequently not secured. It seems logical that there are people in the world that will steal those disks, and it also seems logical that USPS would not feel inclined to take responsibility for that. Its crappy customer service for sure, but I can understand the thinking.

GameFly disks come in a largish stiff cardboard packet that does not bend. Netflix disks come in similarly sized paper envelopes that do bend around the corners. Netflix mailings are relatively easy to stuff into a small mailbox because they literally have a footprint the size of a DVD (small). GameFly's mailings are not nearly as flexible, so again it does not surprise me that USPS is questioning why kind of research GameFly conducted to determine that this package was the most appropriate.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry buddy, I've been (reluctantly) with the post office for more than a decade and, sadly, I'm not wrong. No, the US Gov. does not make a profit; they have not directly run the USPS for some time now.

he USPS is "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States"

Yep. Established by the government yet independent of them. The fact remains; there is a company behind the USPS and they DO take a profit.

Re:Is it me?

[Dragonslicer]

The USPS is a for-profit company backed by the federal government.

Does the USPS have shareholders? Is there a CEO and a board of directors who get bonuses at the end of the year based on how many stamps the USPS sells? If the answer is no, then they are, by definition, not a "for-profit company".

Re:Is it me?

[ktappe]

Sounds like the definition of a government agency to me. ;)

If portrayed that way (as the summary was) and/or as viewed that way (as you seemed inclined to do). But other posters have points: GameFly's mailers are NOT the same as NetFlix's, and I've seen documentaries showing that a lot of R&D went into NetFlix' mailers. Anyone receving a complaint such as GameFly's would be quite prudent to question if they researched other mailer designs. While their questions did go too far, I feel you were a bit too eager to perpetuate the stereotype that all government agencies are bad all the time.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ones personal unfamiliarity with the issues, or with the methodology of litigation, does not necessarily invalidate the line of questioning. Since Gamefly has initiated litigation based on allegedly disparate treatment between itself and Netflix, it is entirely reasonable to include the density of their respective delivery networks in the discussion. Not doing so would be an unforgivable omission of analysis.

Regarding USPS/GFL-30, since the underlying issue is the breakage rate (and breakage during shipping is a known risk factor in both the disk rental and fulfillment industries), why would there not be an examination of the engineering studies that must surely have been performed in designing packaging to, presumably, minimize the breakage rate? Keep in mind that all disks are not created equal - breakage rates are known to vary based on factors including thickness and the elasticity of the compounds used in manufacturing them. Not examining this data would be tantamount to conceding that any packaging is sufficient and a disk is a disk is a disk, even though it is well known, by both parties in the litigation, that this is not the case!

Since USPS seems to be giving special handling to the Netflix disks, apparently due to the employees' reluctance to perform processing that results in damage to the goods, and the costs of withdrawing the pieces and handling them separately is almost certainly not included in the USPS pricing for handling them, it seems that the outcome will likely not be to extend this special handling to more mailers, but to standardize the handling of all mail containing disks, with, most likely, a higher price for doing so.

Re:Is it me?

[Shakrai]

Although my wallet disagrees, the government is definitely non-profit.

I guess that depends on which shareholder you are. Middle class citizen? Non-profit. Defense contractor or person who gets the EITC? Profit!

Re:Is it me?

[DriedClexler]

USPS, you didn't have to be such an ass, a simple "Ok we'll give you the same treatment as Netflix and Blockbuster" would have been the right thing to do.

Even better: "Oh, saw your email yesterday. Let's take a look. Hey Gamefly: what fraction of your shipped discs are damaged in transit? Hey Netflix and other competitors: same question."

And then either:

a) "Holy-shi-ite! We *are* mishandling yours worse than the others! Sorry! We'll instruct our employees not to treat packages differently!"

b) "See, we f*** up everyone's shipments this much. No bias here!"

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of the questions look valid, but others are completely obtuse and look like they are designed to waste GameFly's time and resources, not resolve the problem.

As a person who used to do technical support for such dubious companies like Sony (Vaio computers, et al), I will tell you that those are the type of questions that are designed to get the customer off the phone and never to call again.

Re:Is it me?

[Chris Mattern]

A fourth fix would be to rent a PO box of appropriate size and have your DVDs mailed there.

Re:Is it me?

[Myopic]

Yeah, it definitely fits the stereotype of a government agency.

But, to be clear, the USPS is not a government agency. Like Major League Baseball or Fannie Mae, it is a private agency which has a special relationship with the government.

Re:Is it me?

[Dishevel]

why the fuck would you suggest a solution that requires one to go out and get something out of a PO box when the service he is using is there so he doesn't have to go out and rent a DVD?

Re:Is it me?

[slyrat]

I had some very similar things happen to some of my mail / netflix. I solved it by going to the post office and talking to the management about it. After it happened again I went again and that finally got the message through. Everything has been fine for the past 5+ months now since I did that.

Re:Is it me?

[PalmKiller]

No, semi quasi true, but no on the profit... Until 1970, the U.S. Postal Service functioned as a regular, tax-supported, agency of the federal government. Now, under the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, the U.S. Postal Service is a semi-independent federal agency, mandated to be revenue-neutral. That is, it is supposed to break even, not make a profit.

Re:Is it me?

[iamhassi]

Think GameFly was just using Netflix as a example of someone that mails discs in the mail, but this whole thing started because GameFly started feeling competition from Blockbuster last February when they started offering game rentals through mail.

But I agree, Netflix and GameFly teaming up against Blockbuster probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Re:Is it me?

[JesseMcDonald]

If the answer is no, then they are, by definition, not a "for-profit company".

So your definition of "for-profit company" excludes non-publicly-traded organizations, such as sole proprietorships and private partnerships? How interesting. Here I was thinking that "for-profit company" meant any company not formally classified as a non-profit organization. Or, more generally, any organization formed for the purpose of obtaining an economic profit through commerce.

The real question seems to be whether the USPS would qualify as a non-profit organization. As to that, I have no idea. Perhaps they would. Most of the proceeds do seem to be re-invested into the operation of the postal service, rather than simply accumulated or distributed back to the nominal owner (the federal government). On that score they would be considered a non-profit, to be best of my understanding, but there are other considerations with which I am not familiar.

Re:Is it me?

[PalmKiller]

Now I did say supposed to break even, but as of late, they are turning a net profit in the low billions range each year...so it makes you wonder why the price of stamps keeps going up...something smells very fishy.

Re:Is it me?

[JesseMcDonald]

We *are* mishandling yours worse than the others! Sorry! We'll instruct our employees not to treat packages differently!

It's not quite that simple. The packaging is different as well, which could easily contribute to the problem. The handling may reasonably differ due to the packaging, or the damage rates may be different despite equal handling.

Re:Is it me?

[pcolaman]

I'm suggesting a solution that doesn't cost him anything more than a few moments of his time and a slight bit of effort (which in our society of obese, lazy fuck society I know is a lot to ask) and can prevent the very issue he's bitching about like a little girl. And it requires no PO Box you illiterate fuck. He's complaining about the DVDs he's dropping off getting damaged by the mail worker. If he drops the DVD in a USPS drop box ( you know, the big fucking blue boxes the postal service puts everywhere) then there's a much higher likeliness that the discs don't get damaged. Ironic but not surprising that the logic gets marked troll and the moronic idiocy and lack of fundamental reading comprehension gets marked insightful.

Re:Is it me?

[pcolaman]

The way I read it the problem was getting the DVDs picked up. If the problem is when they are delivered, he's fucked I suppose since apparently he has to deal with a borderline retarded mailman. Sucks to be him I guess.

Re:Is it me?

[darkpixel2k]

Sorry buddy, I've been (reluctantly) with the post office for more than a decade and, sadly, I'm not wrong. No, the US Gov. does not make a profit; they have not directly run the USPS for some time now.

See! The government is so damn inefficient, this dude doesn't want to work for the post office--and he's been there ten years... Gamefly is pretty lucky their complaint is being dealt with at all...

Re:Is it me?

[GooberToo]

Does the USPS have shareholders? Is there a CEO and a board of directors who get bonuses at the end of the year based on how many stamps the USPS sells? If the answer is no, then they are, by definition, not a "for-profit company".

Based on your definition, almost no, "for profit company", qualifies. Then again, that's one of the largest reasons why companies in the US are so fucked up. Rewards are not associated with performance. If you fuck up, you get a castle in the sky. If you do well, you get two castles in the sky. If you're let go, you still get that second castle in the sky. You then get to go to another company whereby you're given a new castle for signing.

The US' system of business is nothing but a complete cluster fuck designed to reward incompetence and failure. Since many of these incompetence failures are also on the board of other companies, its not hard to see how its become a giant cluster fuck of incompetent idiots, effectively creating the world's largest good 'ol boy system.

IF1: "How would you like to run this company, you incompetent fuck?"
IF2: "Would love to! Thanks! How would you like to run this other company as a thank you, you incompetent fuck?!"
IF1: (In Monty Burn's voice) "Excellent!"

Sad...but true...

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

You could try getting a PO box or a mailbox from one of those companies that provide them...

Re:Is it me?

[BitZtream]

Just for reference however ... Netflix has done most of those things already actually.

I suspect GameFly has too, on their scale if they haven't done most of these things then they aren't really trying that hard anyway.

Considering the GameFly and Netflix mailers are considerably different, one has to wonder if netflix hasn't simply been down this road and fixed the problem. I realize GameFly's mailers look and feel stronger and safer ... but that in and of itself may be the problem. Netflix mailers are larger and more flexible, is there a reason?

Sounds like USPS is being an ass, but on the scale we're talking here these questions are trivial amounts of work. Some stated 'it could take hundreds of man hours' to figure out new locations for distro centers ... first off, 2 or 3 hundred man hours for gamefly or the USPS isn't even noticable, second, they should have already done this anyway more or less as proper business practice preparing to move forward and expand.

I live in Raleign, NC ...

My GameFly games come from Tampa Fl generally.

All my Netflix movies come from a miles down the road at the 'nearest distribution center' which happens to be here. That most certainly has a massive effect on how many netflix disks I'm going to have with issues compared to gamefly.

Mind you, I've never had a problem with either one.

USPS, you didn't have to be such an ass, a simple "Ok we'll give you the same treatment as Netflix and Blockbuster" would have been the right thing to do.
--

If you know anything about the USPS you'll know that 99.9% of the work is done by machines. It would take them a rather large amount of effort to actually treat GameFly different than Netflix. It would literally cost them more to treat them worse.

They do get treated the same, the automated sorters and routers aren't trained to 'break' GameFly disks when they see them, or shuffle them off to the 'stolen' bin.

Another typical overreaction by slashdotters who haven't spent any time thinking about the issue and just assume the story is actually true.

Re:Is it me?

[MindStalker]

While its a silly response I think the 60-120 locations is probably a valid issue on why GameFly has so many broken disc. NetFlix generally ships out my disc from a location within 100 miles. GameFly on the other hand I understand has very few locations and will generally send your disc from across the country.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny that you go off cursing and insulting people over being stupid and illiterate, when it was YOU that missed a VERY important point of the original post:

"my mail man used to break an awful lot of DVDs trying to shove them in my mailbox and then try to close it "

And not only that, you posted your moronic rant over 5 hours after the guy replied to you clarifying the situation:

"I think you misunderstood. It gets broken when I receive it, not when I send it back"

So, you act like an asshole, the guy politely replies saying you misunderstood, then hours later you ignore the polite clarification and act like an even bigger asshole.

Re:Is it me?

[operagost]

They lost $7 billion last year, which is why they're ending Saturday delivery.

Re:Is it me?

[brainboyz]

And the man was complaining about them being broken on delivery:

my mail man used to break an awful lot of DVDs trying to shove them in my mailbox

Which means dropping the disc into the blue box on return will do absolutely nothing.

Re:Is it me?

[networkBoy]

IIRC Netflix was getting heat from the USPS for their mailers not being rigid...
To me that sounds like GameFly is using the USPS recommended mailer style.

My first thought, however, is that if the disks are being broken that's a USPS issue, if they are disappearing that is an end user losing the disk and saying "I mailed it back, honest!".

Re:Is it me?

[Dragonslicer]

So your definition of "for-profit company" excludes non-publicly-traded organizations, such as sole proprietorships and private partnerships?

Sorry, that probably should have read "are the answers to both questions no?" For a sole proprietorship, that person would effectively be the CEO. I certainly didn't intend to limit my definition to publicly traded companies that name the person-in-charge "CEO". For private companies, you can substitute "owners" or "investors" for "shareholders".

Here I was thinking that "for-profit company" meant any company not formally classified as a non-profit organization.

Nope, there's also the "not-for-profit" classification. I may be wrong on this, but "non-profit" is used for organizations that are basically charities. Food banks, homeless shelters, cancer research organizations, etc. would be non-profit. "Not-for-profit" is for organizations that clearly aren't charities, but that don't have owners, executives, or shareholders that get extra money at the end of the year. Places like research labs that are spin-offs of universities (MIT has a few around Boston) are often not-for-profits. The USPS would probably be considered such a not-for-profit.

Re:Is it me?

[Dragonslicer]

Hehe, that's an entirely separate discussion. I should have said "performance", complete with air quotes.

Re:Is it me?

[LordKronos]

USPS even accused GameFly of stealing their own games:
  "Please describe any measures GameFly undertakes to manage
or limit theft. In your answer please include the anti-theft procedures utilized in
GameFly’s own plants and during transit of GameFly mail to and from postal
facilities."

W...T....F.... USPS are you serious? So, if I call you and say "hey my mail keeps disappearing" are you going to tell me "what are YOU doing to stop it?"

No, I think this is a valid question from the USPS. The original inquiry was not just about broken discs but also lost discs. If the USPS doesn't believe discs are actually getting lost at the rate GameFly thinks they are, then it's a valid question to determine whether it's the USPS losing them or gamefly employees stealing them before the are checked in.

USPS even wants GameFly to analyze the material DVDs are made of:

"USPS/GFL-30. Has GameFly conducted any testing related to materials used in
the DVDs it distributes or that it is aware respective manufacturers have
undertaken? In your answer please describe the tests and any results from the
tests, including breakage rates for the materials tested."

Again, there's some validity to this question. If you complain to me that X is breaking more than Y, then I'd like to make sure there isn't a reason why X is breaking more which is out of my control.

These both come down to the same sort of thing a lot of us deal with in IT all the time...I don't want to waste my time having to chase down ghosts when I'm not convinced that the problem isn't user error (as it turns out to be in MANY of the cases).

Some of the other questions do seem to be a bit pointless to me, but maybe they make more sense to someone else.

Re:Is it me?

[idontgno]

An option which combines the convenience of driving down to the neighborhood video store with the savings of renting an additional mailbox ON TOP OF renting the video.

Also known as "giving up".

Re:Is it me?

[pcolaman]

Yeah misread it, thought he was talking about having problems shoving them into the mailbox. Which begs the question, why do retards become mailmen?

Re:Is it me?

[DavidTC]

The USPS is a non-profit company because that is the way they are defined to be under the law that created them.

Actual entities created by random people have one of several specific statuses under the law, from publicly traded company to non-profit and everything in between.

The post office, however, is specifically created under a specific law, and thus has its own unique status.

This status is, FYI, actually more limited than a non-profit. The post office is only allowed to make or lose a certain percentage, unlike a non-profit, which can actually make a lot of money. (They just keeps the money to spend later, instead of paying out a profit.)

Re:Is it me?

[DavidTC]

Dude, just making stuff up doesn't make it true.

A drop box is a public or semi-public send-only mailbox that anyone can put stuff in.

It has nothing to do with how you get your mail, you idjit. You can use a drop box and have a PO box, you can use one and have a normal mailbox (I do this, especially with sending checks, if I'm going to town anyway. A dropbox at a mall is much safer than leaving it in your mailbox with a flag up.), you can use one and collect at general delivery, you can use one without any ability to be mailed back at all. (I wonder what you put on the return address if so?)

Now, if you have a PO box, you don't have a private sending box, so you essentially either have to use a public dropbox (Probably the one right at the post office.), or hand it in to a person at the post office, or catch a mailman walking by.

But the fact that people with PO boxes tend to use dropboxes doesn't mean they are, in the slightest way, related, and dropboxes certainly aren't a form of PO box.

Re:Is it me?

[Belial6]

I was talking to my mail man a couple of years ago, and he was telling me about a mail carrier that had just been arrested for stealing Netflix movies. He said that they found over 300 Netflix movies in the mans home when they arrested him. The point is that while much of the processing is done by machines, there is still plenty of opportunities for humans to be involved. Whether Gamefly is treated differently or not, is a different matter.

That being said, I would be looking closely at Gamefly myself if I were the USPS. While I don't know how much of the problem is with the USPS or not, I do know that Gamefly handling is either very poor, or fraudulent. My experience is that even when games are sent back together, they generally don't "arrive" at the same time. There seems to be a general pattern. If two games are mailed back at the same time, one always arrives a day or two later. It seems unlikely that this is something the USPS could be having on accident. If 3 games are sent back, 2 will generally show up first, and the 3rd will show up a few days later. With 4, it seems to split as 2 and 2.

While I am willing to consider that they just get separated in the mailing process, it seems a bit too consistent of separation for it to be an accident. That being said, on the rare occasion that I have lost a mailing envelope, or it was too damaged to use for a return, I have done the standard procedure of putting two disks in a single envelope. When I have done this, the games almost always "arrive" on different days.

Gamefly has gotten better over the last couple of years, but they still clearly have poor handling internally. Of course, poor handling by Gamefly and poor handling by USPS are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

A better question is: why aren't you on your route right now, retard?

Re:Is it me?

[jandrese]

GameFly disks come in a largish stiff cardboard packet that does not bend. Netflix disks come in similarly sized paper envelopes that do bend around the corners. Netflix mailings are relatively easy to stuff into a small mailbox because they literally have a footprint the size of a DVD (small). GameFly's mailings are not nearly as flexible, so again it does not surprise me that USPS is questioning why kind of research GameFly conducted to determine that this package was the most appropriate.

Is this true? I remember stories from back when Netflix was new on the scene about how they worked closely with the USPS to come up with packaging that was both cost efficient and resulted in the lowest amount of breakage. They started out with thick and tough cardboard sleeves but ended up dropping them as they were not as good as the simple paper envelopes that Netflix uses today.

It shocks me that a rival company, started well after Netflix was established, would not shamelessly steal their current envelope design and instead would steal an early beta design that didn't work out. At the very least, they could have worked with the USPS to refine their packaging in the same way Netflix did.

Re:Is it me?

[Dishevel]

Thanks for calling me an illiterate fuck. The really special thing about that insult is the part where you prove that you did not comprehend the very post you were replying to.

Awesome. Can you do some more please?

Re:Is it me?

[Zerth]

To say nothing of the $90 billion in liabilities they have.

Re:Is it me?

[DavidTC]

He's complaining about the DVDs he's dropping off getting damaged by the mail worker.

No he's not, you illiterate fuck.

...my mail man used to break an awful lot of DVDs trying to shove them in my mailbox...

Mailmen do not shove mail they are picking up into a mailbox. Um, duh.

He's complaining about the DVD's he's receiving getting damaged by the mail worker before he receives them.

And there are plenty of other clues about that in his comment, if you aren't an illiterate fuck.

For example, he reduced his total amount from 1 to 4, which only makes sense in reducing the amount sent to him at once. If the amount going out was a problem, he could just send back one at a time even if he had 4 at a time, with only a slight reduction in turnover speed. So if the problem was sending, duh, he would just send one every day.

But, of course, he's actually have a problem with receiving, which, because of the vagaries of the mail system, means he couldn't safely have sent two back at one, or he might get the next two at the same time. So at all times, he'd have to have three in his possession, and as the entire point of having that many out is to keep half of them 'in the air' so you get new videos every day, he cut back. (Why he switched to 'one out' instead of 'two out', which would be just as safe if he's always holding one, I don't know. That would seem a better choice. Perhaps there is not a 'two out'.)

Likewise, another clue he's talking about receiving is that he talks about the DVDs being unplayable. Hey, illiterate fuck, why the hell would he know how 'playable' a DVD was when received back by Netflix? Are they calling him up, saying 'One of these DVDs has broken and another has warped so badly that it became completely unplayable'? Even if they were charging people for broke-in-shipping DVDs, which I doubt, but even if they were, they'd hardly inform him specifically in what manner the CDs were broken.

Re:Is it me?

[DavidTC]

Since USPS seems to be giving special handling to the Netflix disks, apparently due to the employees' reluctance to perform processing that results in damage to the goods, and the costs of withdrawing the pieces and handling them separately is almost certainly not included in the USPS pricing for handling them, it seems that the outcome will likely not be to extend this special handling to more mailers, but to standardize the handling of all mail containing disks, with, most likely, a higher price for doing so.

See, this is what is called 'begging the question'. (People who misuse that expression, take note.)

I see no evidence at all that USPS does such a thing, nor can I comprehend why they would do so.

In fact, USPS has no reason at all to treat Netflix DVDs well, especially compared to other companies.

Companies that have options of shipping, like USPS vs. UPS vs. FedEx, will move elsewhere if packages get damaged in shipping. Netflix, however, has such high volume that moving elsewhere would kill it. Or, rather, a high ship volume to sales volume ratio, if you see what I'm saying.

So USPS really can treat them like crap, whereas it couldn't do that to, for example, Barnes & Noble if they used USPS to ship. Because Barnes & Noble can move elsewhere (And, indeed, is elsewhere.), whereas Netflix can't actually afford to ship packages back and forth using UPS. (Especially not back! Home pickup costs alone would kill them.)

So, like I said, I can't comprehend why USPS would be treating Netflix nicely.

Re:Is it me?

[Dishevel]

You're welcome, illiterate fuck. I can do it a billion more times if you please, I have karma to burn.

Wow. Are we a little out of sorts today. See how I read and understood your post. That is how I can tell that you are having a bad day. (To the person reading this post for pcolaman. Be nice to him today. He needs it.)

Re:Is it me?

[JesseMcDonald]

For a sole proprietorship, that person would effectively be the CEO. ... For private companies, you can substitute "owners" or "investors" for "shareholders".

That's how I read it as well. Even so, smaller for-profit companies don't necessarily have a board of directors or a bonus system—and non-profit/not-for-profit organizations may have a CEO (with or without bonuses) and shareholders. Someone must hold title to the organizations assets, which would effectively make them a shareholder even if they don't expect to profit financially from that status.

Perhaps a simpler rule-of-thumb might be that not-for-profits (incl. non-profits) don't pay dividends or prioritize maximizing the market value of the organization. Under that rule the USPS would certainly be considered a not-for-profit organization.

Re:Is it me?

[DavidTC]

The USPS is indeed a government agency. It is one that is funded entirely by itself, but it is indeed a government agency.

Fannie Mae is a non-profit private organization that was created by the government and spun off. It is entirely separate now.

Major League Baseball has no 'special relationship' with the federal government at all.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

What profit? theyre bankrupt worse than greece and nobody uses their services anymore except junk mailers because fedex and ups do it better. Why are they going to 5 days a week if theyre making so much money?

Re:Is it me?

[DinDaddy]

Maybe it's in the alps . . .

Re:Is it me?

[DinDaddy]

It shocks me that a rival company, started well after Netflix was established, would not shamelessly steal their current envelope design and instead would steal an early beta design that didn't work out. At the very least, they could have worked with the USPS to refine their packaging in the same way Netflix did.

Maybe Netflix patented both those things.

Re:Is it me?

[GasparGMSwordsman]

Now I did say supposed to break even, but as of late, they are turning a net profit in the low billions range each year...so it makes you wonder why the price of stamps keeps going up...something smells very fishy.

Would you like to support your statement cited facts? Every time I have heard any quotation of figures about the USPS it was that costs were going up at significantly more than inflation. I have also heard that due to the reduced number of letters and packages the per item expense has gone up (more empty room in each delivery truck/plain/train/ship).

I absolutely have not studied this issue, but I would be very interested in seeing some hard data on the subject.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like a good insight into Government Controlled Health Care.

Re:Is it me?

[Dun Malg]

The way I read it the problem was getting the DVDs picked up.

You read it wrong. I quote the OP:

"my mail man used to break an awful lot of DVDs trying to shove them in my mailbox and then try to close it"

See, the real problem is that many mailboxes were designed to accept standard US Mail envelopes. The alternative to putting things in the mailbox it to (in some cases) leave them in the open tray below the mailbox bank or other exposed area where oversized packages are left, or to leave them at the recipient's door; and the latter is frequently beyond the capacity of the postal worker, as there is limited time to complete the route. Either way, the CD/DVD is exposed to anyone wandering by and subject to theft. I know that GameFly had a very big problem with this early on, and that as a result the USPS urged its carriers to try not to leave Netflix/GameFly type deliveries in the open. In the case of the OP, the carrier is in an impossible situation: cram it in the undersized mailbox to possibly warp or break, or leave it out to be stolen.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

how come it's his fault that the delivery guy broke the dvd (assuming that the story it's true)?

there already is a perfectly functional way of handling larger-than-mailboxes packages.

Given the application of a sufficiently large amount of force, any larger-than-mailbox package decreases in volume to become a smaller-than-mailbox package.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I am willing to consider that they just get separated in the mailing process, it seems a bit too consistent of separation for it to be an accident. That being said, on the rare occasion that I have lost a mailing envelope, or it was too damaged to use for a return, I have done the standard procedure of putting two disks in a single envelope. When I have done this, the games almost always "arrive" on different days.

This does not surprise me in the least. Most likely, when the shipment arrives, the computer scans one of the barcodes automatically, however since the package doesn't match the expected weight, it's sent to a bin to be manually examined. The second disk isn't "received" until a wage slave looks at the package a day or two later, finds the second disk, and manually records its arrival into the system.

Re:Is it me?

[Mr. Slippery]

Defense contractor or person who gets the EITC? Profit!

I know that the mythology that the poor are "lucky duckies" who don't pay taxes is popular with the Fox News set, but in actual fact most people receiving the EITC are still paying FICA taxes, various federal excise taxes, plus of course state and local sales and property taxes. Most people getting the EITC are not turning a profit from the government.

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

leave a missing delivery notice? I was delivering this box but you weren't at home, please come pick up at the local post office.

Re:Is it me?

[PalmKiller]

They ended Saturday delivery out where I live years ago for the most part, and Monday-Friday delivery also...well, to the correct address anyway.

Re:Is it me?

[PalmKiller]

Oops, actually I see that now, it was a -3.79 billion net...but where do you get 7 billion as the loss...you are not including the -3.74 billion operating losses and adding it to the net losses are you, the net includes the operating losses. Makes me wonder if you are you a government accountant, or perhaps a politician :)?

Re:Is it me?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you blame the mailman when you have already admitted your box is too small. You can't fit 2 pounds of sh** in a one pound bag!
Ad to that the fact that your mailman only has x amount of seconds to deal with your box and then he better be on his way to the next or be written up for taking too much time on his route...and you want him to fart around trying to fit three dvd's in a box that will only fit one at best.
Probably has sharp edges too so he can slice his fingers up trying to shove the dvd's in. Blame your landlord for being a cheapskate and not paying for a "postal approved" mailbox.

netflix vs gamefly

[steppin_razor_LA]

funny since gamefly's disks are wrapped in rigid cardboard and much more secure than netflix...

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[blackraven14250]

I don't know about Gamefly, but if they're in cardboard, they should be much better off than Netflix. Netflix's shipping method involves about 4 sheets of paper, not even glued together.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Sycraft-fu]

Well couple things may be in play, other than the USPS being meanies:

1) Netflix may well consider a fairly high rate of loss acceptable. Depending on the prices they have to pay for the discs, it might not matter to them. Remember that the media itself is cheap. In large runs I'd be surprised if you could get a disc to cost $0.10. So if they have a situation with the studios where they can buy the discs cheap, separate of the rental rights, it might not matter to them.

2) Video discs may be able to take more damage. If there's an error on a video disc, it isn't necessarily a show stopper. Could manifest as a minor visual glitch, maybe a couple frames get dropped. Whatever, movie still works, most people won't bitch. With data DVDs, doesn't work like that. Either everything reads 100% and passes the verification or it says "Shit is broke, we can't install."

Not saying the post office might not be causing problems, but there are plenty of other possibilities. Netflix may have accounted for breakage in their business model and Gamefly may not have

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[show me altoids]

Not necessarily better. If the cardboard is of a thickness that doesn't travel well through a given machine, it could increase the breakage or jam the machine.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[stephanruby]

A disk wrapped in a rigid card box would probably break in my mailbox. In my mailbox (which is an apartment mailbox), if I receive more than one DVD at a time from Netflix -- one of them will at least break (or warp so badly, that it will be completely unplayable). If I receive just one Netflix DVD thought, and I don't have too much bulky mail, it will bend slightly, but no permanent damage will be done.

May be, GameFly should just try Netflix's packaging, and do a test run with it. Sometimes, common sense can lead you astray.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[jecowa]

Excellent theories. Much more believable than GameFly's conspiracy theory.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Dthief]

35. GameFly is not the only mailer to experience significant DVD breakage rates on automated mail processing equipment. In response to this phenomenon, the Postal Service has adopted a practice of manually culling out the DVD mailers of two high-volume shippers of DVDs, Netflix and Blockbuster, for special processing.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[JaZz0r]

I wonder how USPS CDs are packaged and how many are delivered intact compared to the others.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Artifex]

Well couple things may be in play, other than the USPS being meanies:

1) Netflix may well consider a fairly high rate of loss acceptable. Depending on the prices they have to pay for the discs, it might not matter to them. Remember that the media itself is cheap. In large runs I'd be surprised if you could get a disc to cost $0.10. So if they have a situation with the studios where they can buy the discs cheap, separate of the rental rights, it might not matter to them.

They also have arrangements (or have had in the past) where they ship DVDs they printed themselves. In situations like that, they could be even cheaper, because there's no delay in waiting for replacements from the vendors, and they could be printed at the distribution centers nearest the subscribers asking for them.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you have to rule out #1. Netflix has to buy the discs retail from the studios, just like Blockbuster and others must. They do not get anywhere near a $0.10/disc cost. Think closer to $25. You can thank the death grip of old media for that.

Netflix has 89,000,000 discs in inventory and had revenues of $1.67 billion in 2009, so each disc could be seen as producing $18 in revenue, statistically (more on that below). Given that most Netflix customers have the "3 at a time" plan (at $17/month), and that they hold onto discs for an average of 10 days, that means a disc must be rented roughly 4-5 times for the disc to earn enough "allocation" of customers' plan revenue to break even, and that for the average disc this may take a year and a half.

Even if studios gave Netflix a sweetheart deal, I think they'd still need a minimum of 6 months of circulation to break even on your "average" disc.

But there is no "average" disc. What really happens is that there is a long tail of low popularity titles, with accordingly low inventories, and the newest titles are most popular/profitable and pay for the carrying costs of the remainder of their 100,000+ movie library.

But this is all for naught if the disc can't make it through the mail (and customers' homes) at least 5 times without being stolen or damaged, no matter how long that takes.

So Netflix would seem to care about mail damage, too.

Sources: Wikipedia, Feedflix

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[moortak]

Standard thin cardboard sleeve with a small silver adhesive strip. I've never seen one broken, but our stuff is delivered competently.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[buckeyeguy]

From what I was told by a USPS carrier back in about 2004-2005 (knew her socially, she wasn't the one delivering my mail), the carriers got more money from manually sorting more pieces of mail, and because of that moving the Netflix stuff off the sorters was a win/win for them because the disk mailers were leaving trash behind when they got shredded. Not sure how the piecework for pay thing works, may be part of their union contract or something.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[hedwards]

Conceivably. But, Netflix DVD envelopes don't comply with postal regulations. As a result they don't go through the same machines because they don't fit. The USPS has to hand process them at points because of that.

I think the bigger issue for Gamefly is why it takes the USPS a full week to ship things from southern California or Texas to Washington. I'd almost certainly still be a subscriber if it didn't take them so long to ship things here. Surprisingly it seemed to take a lot less time shipping it back.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[ktappe]

funny since gamefly's disks are wrapped in rigid cardboard and much more secure than netflix...

Which makes them larger and therefore more likely to be difficult to fit into some mailboxes. That makes them more likely to be bent by mailcarriers, leading to damage. This is something GameFly probably needed to put more R&D into and on that point, score one for the USPS.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[bws111]

One thing you can be sure of is that Netflix and Blockbuster are NOT paying retail. They are not going down to the local Best Buy and purchasing 1000 copies of some movie. Unless you have some info to the contrary, we don't know anything about their arrangement with the studios. It could be that they get the disks for free, and pay the studios a fee every time a disk goes out. Since they are also able to offer movies on-line, they obviously have some arrangement other than 'buy a retail disk'.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Anonymous Coward]

GP here. I absolutely have information to the contrary. At least until this year, studios had basically forced Netflix, Blockbuster, Redbox, et al. to purchase retail discs from them. Could they have purchased them elsewhere? Perhaps, but then they wouldn't have had streaming ability lined up on the first day of retail sale.

What may have changed all this is Netflix's recently acceding to studios' pressure to refrain from rentals during the first month of retail sales, to "give DVD sales a chance". I am guessing that, in exchange for this, there may have been a cost discount consideration.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[bws111]

There is a different between 'purchasing retail disks' and 'purchasing disks retail'. Purchasing retail disks means that they are getting the same disks you or I would get if we bought them - they are not making a special run of disks for Netflix or allowing Netflix to make their own. But purchasing retail disks says nothing about the price or terms of the purchase. Purchasing disks retail, on the other hand, means that they are paying retail price, same as you or I would. About half of the 'retail' price of a disk goes to the retailer. There is no way that Netflix is purchasing disks at retail.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix was purchasing retail discs at retail price, same as you or I would. There is absolutely a way as this is what was happening, at least until last month.

Re:netflix vs gamefly

[DavidTC]

I'm not entirely certain Netflix gets a special deal at all, because the DVD publishers aren't really fans of DVD rental at all. In fact, there have been efforts to ban such a thing, at least back in the VHS days.

However, they certainly aren't paying 'retail'. I'm sure they can get the DVD wholesale, or close to it. I mean, if you're wanting to buy 5,000 copies of a DVD, the place selling to you doesn't care if you're Best Buy and want to resell them or Netflix and want to rent them or some random Joe who wants to build a house out of them...you're paying less than store price if you show up with an order that big, especially if you do it over and over again with different DVDs.

That said, at times, Blockbuster has paid more than 'retail'. Not because they're idiots, but because, sometimes, movies come out of 'high prices DVD' for a three months or so before the price is dropped, specifically so that video rental stores can show up, pay outrageous prices, and advertise that they have Hit Hollywood Movie #2947 available while people still can't buy it in stores. At least, not the local Walmart. People could technically buy it if they tracked down a wholesaler, although they'd pay out the nose and probably have to order at least a 10 copies. (I don't know if this 'early release' still happens...hell, I have no idea what happens at video rental places anymore.)

In other words, the only history of cooperation that movie studios have with movie rental places, once they were forced to admit that they were legal, was setting up a system where sometimes they pay more than retail. They consider DVD rentals to be cannibalizing their profits. (This is why they invented DivX, the self-destructing DVD, which was them trying to get in the rental business themselves.)

It's extremely unlikely they're specifically giving Netflix any discount on DVDs. I can see them possibly setting up a system where they make Netflix-only DVDs, without packaging and stuff, and sell them for slightly cheaper, if that makes them a little more money. (I.e., if the packaging is $1.50, they might make it without the packaging and sell it for a $1 less.) But that's about all I can see them doing.

predictable

[Goldsmith]

Welcome to the world of lawyers, where it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, but who is in a position to be a bigger pain in the neck. This is a discovery document for the defense of USPS, not a response to an inquiry. They probably won't be issuing a response.

The USPS lawyers (in the odd world of legal ethics) probably concluded that the "right" thing to do is to pressure Gamefly to settle and admit no wrongdoing by USPS. I'm sure there are good reasons for USPS to not actually put out a public report detailing what their definition of acceptable mail handling is or how poor mail handling happens, but those are good reasons only for people who work for USPS.

Re:predictable

[mpoulton]

Welcome to the world of lawyers, where it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, but who is in a position to be a bigger pain in the neck. This is a discovery document for the defense of USPS, not a response to an inquiry. They probably won't be issuing a response.

The USPS lawyers (in the odd world of legal ethics) probably concluded that the "right" thing to do is to pressure Gamefly to settle and admit no wrongdoing by USPS. I'm sure there are good reasons for USPS to not actually put out a public report detailing what their definition of acceptable mail handling is or how poor mail handling happens, but those are good reasons only for people who work for USPS.

The original "inquiry" was not a polite request for the USPS to investigate. It was a formal complaint filed with the Postal Regulatory Commission. This is functionally a lawsuit, in the "court" of the Postal Regulatory Commission. GameFly sued the USPS demanding that they provide the same treatment to GameFly DVDs that is provided for Netflix and Blockbuster DVDs. The Postal service's response here is a discovery request, which is to be expected. However, if you read the original complaint it becomes apparent that the postal service probably already has much of this information, since the USPS and GameFly worked together for quite a long time to resolve the problem (to no avail).

Re:predictable

[mrmeval]

Get rid of the postal goons and go private where they have less of the impenetrable legal wall than the archaic postal service.

I've lived in crime ridden neighborhoods where the postal goons loved to dump packages outside my door. That sort of welfare is unappreciated.

I now live in a better area where the postal goon loves to break the mail box regularly or just leave it unlocked and open.

To hell with them. Take away their monopoly.

Re:predictable

[LostInTaiwan]

I was on the privatization wagon until GWB started to "privatize" our armed forces and now BHO wants to "privatize" our space exploration. I love the USPS/FedEx/UPS comparison. The good thing about USPS is that they usually don't care who you are or how much you ship, you pretty much get the same overall treatment depending on the mood of their staff. FedEx/UPS on the other hand discriminate base on your shipping volume and profitability.

There is a reason why USPS looses money year after year, beside the typical government bureaucracy. However, where else can you mail something for $0.44 to anywhere in the US with no additional charge for Saturday delivery.

Re:predictable

[mrmeval]

Government can't privatize shit. There is too much cronyism in it so they will make rules so that only a few can play.

We can however force them to remove the USPS monopoly and let private business take over where it can. USPS already uses a larger number of private businesses in that cronyism scheme already mentioned.

BTW, we had privatized defense when the country was new. Since we don't need to be the Whirled police anymore I say we go back to it.

Re:predictable

[Shakrai]

I was on the privatization wagon until GWB started to "privatize" our armed forces

GWB didn't privatize the armed forces. Contractors were used to fill the roles that DoD lacked the manpower to fill because of the post Cold War draw down of the American military. The proper thing to do would have been to institute a military draft to provide DoD with the required manpower. The downside to this is that we'd have to justify our foreign policy to the American people and nobody on either side of the aisle wants to do that....

FedEx/UPS on the other hand discriminate base on your shipping volume and profitability.

Why is this a bad thing? If you mail one package a year and ask them to come to your location to pick it up it doubtless costs them more than someone who regularly mails packages.

There is a reason why USPS looses money year after year

Above market wages?

However, where else can you mail something for $0.44 to anywhere in the US

Why is that a good thing? If I walk into my post office and "mail" something to a PO box contained within that same post office it ought to cost less than mailing something to Alaska or Hawaii.

Re:predictable

[bill_mcgonigle]

The proper thing to do would have been to institute a military draft to provide DoD with the required manpower.

Only 'proper' if you assume the US Government owns its subjects.

The downside to this is that we'd have to justify our foreign policy to the American people and nobody on either side of the aisle wants to do that...

Yeah, one can't defend the indefensible. Two wrongs don't make a right, though.

Re:predictable

[bill_mcgonigle]

Above market wages?

Or mostly 'benefits', if I understand the problem. The wages are only slightly above market, it's the lure of huge pensions that makes up for poor recruiting options.

At this rate, my grandkids will be paying for my mail delivery.

Re:predictable

[LostInTaiwan]

I was on the privatization wagon until GWB started to "privatize" our armed forces

GWB didn't privatize the armed forces. Contractors were used to fill the roles that DoD lacked the manpower to fill because of the post Cold War draw down of the American military. The proper thing to do would have been to institute a military draft to provide DoD with the required manpower. The downside to this is that we'd have to justify our foreign policy to the American people and nobody on either side of the aisle wants to do that....

I lean toward the draft. Let the politicians justify their decision to the American people and we should all get a chance to shoulder the responsibility of our country going to war beside shopping at the local air conditioned malls. Put everyone on reserve status.

I don't care for the private contractors because I don't see why Blackwater should be paid a premium to do what normal American solders do everyday and I don't see why Haliburton should make a profit for doing what normal American solders used to do.

FedEx/UPS on the other hand discriminate base on your shipping volume and profitability.

Why is this a bad thing? If you mail one package a year and ask them to come to your location to pick it up it doubtless costs them more than someone who regularly mails packages.

That depends on if you view postal service as a public service or private service. I view it as a public service and as a public service it should treat everyone roughly the same. Image if you are a farmer in rural American and has to pay "market" price every time you want send in your utility payment.

Or, imaging waiting in that long postal office line only to have people walk in and constantly cut in front of you because they are the "volume" shippers

There is a reason why USPS looses money year after year

Above market wages?

I am fairly cheap so I think most government workers are overpaid, including the USPS. But I think USPS looses money because they are a public service and cannot discriminate against the rural population.

Sometimes the special FedEx/UPS surcharges cost more then USPS's parcel rate for rural areas.

However, where else can you mail something for $0.44 to anywhere in the US

Why is that a good thing? If I walk into my post office and "mail" something to a PO box contained within that same post office it ought to cost less than mailing something to Alaska or Hawaii.

The good thing is that they treat everyone roughly the same.

Re:predictable

[Shakrai]

I don't care for the private contractors because I don't see why Blackwater should be paid a premium to do what normal American solders do everyday and I don't see why Haliburton should make a profit for doing what normal American solders used to do.

I agree with you. I also don't like how they get to operate outside the confines of the UCMJ. But the only way to eliminate or reduce the use of private contractors in future conflicts is to increase the size of DoD. That may well require the institution of a peace time draft, not something that's likely to command much political support in Washington.

Image if you are a farmer in rural American and has to pay "market" price every time you want send in your utility payment.

In the ideal world that farmer would increase the cost of his products to account for the increased cost of living in the middle of nowhere. That would cost the city dwellers more money but so what? They are already subsidizing him with taxes -- urban areas almost always pay out more in taxes than they receive in services. Why not cut out the Government middle man and let them pay Mr. Farmer directly?

Or, imaging waiting in that long postal office line only to have people walk in and constantly cut in front of you because they are the "volume" shippers

I've never seen this happen at my local UPS distribution center, why assume it would happen if the USPS were privatized?

Re:predictable

[Jedi Alec]

I don't care for the private contractors because I don't see why Blackwater should be paid a premium to do what normal American solders do everyday and I don't see why Haliburton should make a profit for doing what normal American solders used to do.

Not to mention the fact that a decent chunk of their employees have received their military training at the expense of the taxpayers to begin with.

Must be nice to have your "competition" do all your training for you though. Makes it a lot easier to dazzle someone in the executive branch with your competitive costs compared to the regular army.

Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE FILE

[Alpha232]

Alot of the questions go to what effort did GameFly invest into research, planning and execution, of the shipping and return process.
Things from the material the mailer is produced from to simply how the dvd is secured inside the envelope to prevent shifting through the sorting process.

And the really big question, are you sure they really were "stolen" and not just kept.

I think pretty much all of the questions are valid and while written in legaleze, quite understandable given the severity of the complaint. If GameFly worked with the USPS in planning the mailing portion of their service and co-operated in tracking down these "thefts" before filing this case, then they should have no problems answering every one of them honestly and fully.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[macshit]

The original complaint by gamefly seems kind of bizarre though. Why on earth would the USPS care who's sending the packages, much less "preferentially" treat "traditional DVD distribution companies"?

It sounds like if there is any issue, it's a technical one (since the problem seems to be with the interaction between the DVD packages and the USPS sorting machines), and thus detailed questions about how gamefly packages their DVDs, etc, are quite apropos.

Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

I am amazed at the sheer skill displayed by postal services in breaking CDROMs. Australia Post has broken the last couple I have mailed. The disc is in a paper sleeve glued to the inside of a 10mm thick A4 paper manual inside a heavy paper "Toughbag" envelope. The envelopes and manual arrive with no outward signs of distress but the CDROM has been broken cleanly in two. One went to the far side of the country, but the other only a few suburbs away.

You can grab a bare CD and bend it in half without physically breaking it... it takes compressive force on the fold before the CD shatters. How this happens in transit without damaging the containing envelopes beats me.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[WiPEOUT]

Alternative breaking options:

* falling on its edge and cracking
* repeated extreme heating/cooling cycles causing the disk to crack

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[pimpsoftcom]

Because mail is sorted through machines that bend all mail.. its industry standard and part of the automated sorting racks that read the digital stamp placed over the actual stamp, based on the USPS employee I talked to.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[muphin]

that's why they have CD packaging specifically for this (that little box a tiny big bigger than a jewel case).
write fragile on it, as you cant expect the post to know what's in the packaging.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why (at least in the states), I always use an actual cardboard box, of at least 5cm thickness, lined with large cell bubble wrap. By listing the contents as "Media", a special shipping rate is given. ("Media" covers anything from printed books and photographs such as posters and what-not, to audio and video recordings. Digital data devices can also qualify as 'Media'. "Media" type packages usually ship FAR cheaper for their weight than traditional packages. USPS on Media Mail)

By using the "Large" box, the package gets sorted manually instead of through the envelope sorting machine. This can be further enhanced by stamping the box "Do not bend or fold."

Granted, this doesn't look nearly as "Sexy" as a thin, cardboard sleeve does when it arrives in the mail, but the disc is much more likely to arrive in a use-able condition.

(I have sent a disk from the Midwestern US *TO* Australia this way, and had it arrive safely.)

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

CDs survive summertime closed car temperatures (i.e. 60+ Celsius) repeatedly without breaking. Repeated dropping on an edge could do it but the impact would have to smash through the surrounding manual first, retain sufficient energy to break the CDROM, and not damage either the manual or envelope. Both options seem unlikely.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

When I'm just mailing a CD alone that is what I use. Never had these broken.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

Once you get out of the "envelope" category (less than 500g and 20mm thick) postage rates take a hike. No concessions from Aust Post based on the type of content, just a weight/package volume/distance formula. Taking the same content with the smallest, suitable, readily available PostPak box the postage goes from $2.75 to $11.80 packaging excluded. A smaller box might reduce this a little but I haven't found a ready supply in small volumes.

Don't get me wrong, the majority of our mail arrives intact and we accept a few losses. I just wonder at the mechanics of breaking the disc.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[ffflala]

It's the difference in the elastic modulus among materials. The envelopes, manual, and cardboard packaging have different properties from the encased plastic discs. Opposing shear forces with small enough clearance could easily snap a CD/DVD in the middle, without leaving any particularly unusual bend or mark on the external plant-pulp packaging. If the tire and road surfaces were flat and clean enough, a loaded semi could drive over a piece of mail without harming it; not so for the disc.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[fourdc]

I work on the machines that process mail for the USPS. Letters start at the feeder and within 1 foot of travel are moving at 20 mph, there is stress on the envelope. The mailpiece is routed around a series of turns to kill time while the optics read the mailpiece and determine sortation.

The mailpiece is then routed to a pocket where it goes from 20mph to zero with a quarter inch foam bumper to stop it. This machine processes at about 40,000 pieces an hour.

Writing "fragile" on an envelope is a false hope. Mailpieces go through the system without the human eye even looking at them until the carrier puts it in your mailbox.

If you want a fragile piece to go manual, then box it and pay the extra postage. The video and game rental industry companies need to build a better mailpiece to protect their content.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[JazzXP]

I recently sent some DVD's and I bought some boxes for $1.40 each and then $1.10 in postage (So $2.50 in total). That was just from an Australia Post Shop.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[AndersOSU]

best guess:

They run it through a machine with a pinch feed system. Works fine for flat pieces of paper, but when you put something rigid through you get wierd forces. Putting the CD inside the manual might paradoxically make things worse - the machine has to apply more force to move a book than an envelope - force with a large downward component. It hits the CD and then ... crack.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[AndersOSU]

Doesn't media mail take eons to be delivered?

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[Anonymous Coward]

(USPS goon here)
Ohh yes. The first week I had to run a DBCS I accidentally ran a few motorcycle license plates through. In addition to the loud clanking noise the leading plate was a small bit bent up before the machine's estop kicked in.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[Anonymous Coward]

Pinch feeders work fine unless the feeder is shoving the mail through to see higher numbers. Or the mail in front of the disc has a pen or something in it. It's usually the bends for level changes or the pocket gates that crunch stuff up. At least from my brief time running the machines that handle Netflix. Never noticed many Gamefly, unless those are the orange and white ones.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[AndersOSU]

My experience with netflix is that there are two types of defects, ones that damage the disk and the packaging, and one's that just damage the disk.

You're clearly more knowledgeable than me, so this is an honest question:
Is it possible that pinch feeds are producing the second defect, but you didn't notice it because there's no superficial damage?

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[DavidTC]

The video and game rental industry companies need to build a better mailpiece to protect their content.

No, what actually needs to happen is that the Post Office needs to recognize that people mail DVDs, and to actually meet the demand and construct a cheap-as-possible box that, never-the-less, will get through mailing intact.

Or even have a cheap one with a slight chance of breakage, and a more expensive one with almost no chance.

And then sell them, with and without postage, which should be a set standard rate for said box with a CD/DVD in it.

I work for a company that mails DVDs out occassionally, and, let me tell you, it's a hassle. We're having to use photo mailers. The post office doesn't even sell CD mailers except for CDs in jewel cases. (Who the hell ships CDs in jewel cases?)

Now, Netflix and whoever might want to make their own mailers, for cheaper or whatever.

But what about normal people who just want to send a DVD across the country? The post office doesn't provide mailers. It's nearly impossible to find any DVD non-jewel case mailer, in fact. And once you get one, you have to actually take it in and have it weighed, because it's certainly not a standard size.

Don't whine and bitch that people should 'pay the extra postage'. Give them a damn box they can buy to ship a DVD in that actually is some standard size with standard postage, sold with whatever postage is needed to cover the cost. You've got two of those for photos, why not one for DVDs?

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

Yes, they are. I imagine pet owners and people shipping wine or live seafood might be a bit disappointed if their cargo was exposed to -55 deg C and low air pressure for hours.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[GumphMaster]

Try adding a 460g A4 manual in that DVD mailer :)

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had CDs just bend and others completely explode into a zillion pieces when bent.

It just depends on the plastic they are made of.

Re:Aussie Post Works Their Magic Too

[Artifex]

You can grab a bare CD and bend it in half without physically breaking it... it takes compressive force on the fold before the CD shatters.

It all depends. I destroyed a lot of old backup CDs and DVDs when we went to a disk system, and I can say that even samples from the same product line, same vendor, can react differently. Some will snap if I just convulsively bend the disk fast but not very far, others only crack, some do very little visibly (but the coating flakes and the plastic striates rendering it unreadable) if I do less than completely bend them in half...

If you really don't see how this happens, take one of your packages, drop it into a canvas bag at an angle, then take a big rolled mass of newspaper and shove it in on top, filling up the bag. Clutch it under your arm and walk across the room. Now drop that bag 4 feet. And so on. That sort of action can cause no real wear on envelope seams but devastate anything not reinforced.

TL;DR version: you are not adequately protecting your mailing

Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Ron Bennett]

As was pointed out in the older, related Slashdot article, the value of the game disks is most likely the primary reason Gamefly is experiencing so many "losses".

In regards to the USPS being "private", that's only partially true. I don't recall the USPS paying property tax, income tax, etc. Or do they?

On a related topic, UPS and FedEx delivery vehicles get ticketed all the time. Can USPS delivery vehicles be ticketed? -some people have told me that they can't, since they're exempt.

In regards to mail theft - that's an issue at all the major services, including USPS despite strict federal laws. Supposedly, some companies are so concerned theft by postal workers, they will purposely send much of their mail in such a way to avoid "problematic" USPS sorting centers.

Ron

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Spazmania]

Can USPS delivery vehicles be ticketed?

Lately I've noticed that the USPS vehicles in my area don't even have license plates...

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Anonymous Coward]

they do have a USPS sign (and possibly an ID) on them though

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Anonymous Coward]

What ? Hhm I'm going to have to buy me a USPS vehicle on eBay.

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[lindoran]

USPS is a government run company (for all intents an purposes). As such they do not need licence plates. They do however have (quite large) identifying numbers on the outside of the truck/vehicle. if it is a small post office they may do mail delivery from the post masters own personal vehicle but in that case there would be some identifying marks on the vehicle. most post offices too small to have fleet vehicles are pick up only however... and in that case there is no vehicle.

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[ArsenneLupin]

Lately I've noticed that the USPS vehicles in my area don't even have license plates...

Neither do they here.

... but then push carts and bicycles usually don't have license plates, even if they are not owned by the postal service....

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Sharkyfour]

On a related topic, UPS and FedEx delivery vehicles get ticketed all the time. Can USPS delivery vehicles be ticketed? -some people have told me that they can't, since they're exempt.

My wife is a school bus driver and she's told me before the only vehicle who is not required to stop for the flashing red lights is a postal truck. They're federal government vehicles and as such they're exempt from state traffic laws, including stopping for a school bus loading/unloading children.

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Shakrai]

They're federal government vehicles and as such they're exempt from state traffic laws, including stopping for a school bus loading/unloading children.

I call bullshit. Federal employees aren't exempt from the laws of the state that they happen to be working in. I think your wife is misinformed.

Re:Real Reason is Game Disks Are More Valuable

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not true. Mail carriers must abide by all traffic laws and if they do not they can be pulled over and ticketed just like anybody else.

Re:I have a complaint...

[Anonymous Coward]

No one wants to hear you complain about your elephantiasis or other medical problems.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[Alpha232]

From the original complaint, the USPS apparently does treat them differently as far as machine handling... it would be interesting to see what happens.

The issue here is why does GameFly have to jump through hoops and spend alot more on packaging to survive automation even when the class of service they used allows for non-machine sorts, while the other companies get separated for special treatment.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[mattack2]

Why on earth would the USPS care who's sending the packages

I can't provide a citation, but I thought that Netflix had various special arrangements with the USPS due to their huge mail volume. Yes, I'm being vague because I don't remember specifics, but things like discounted rates and even possibly specialized delivery/pickup schedules from the Netflix distribution centers.

Going postal

[Dthief]

Dont worry, USPS is already on top of that

Maybe it's time to stop buying stamps...

[JaZz0r]

...and start looking into what UPS/FedEx/DHL can offer.

Re:Maybe it's time to stop buying stamps...

[Shakrai]

DHL pulled out of the American market. UPS and Fedex are prohibited by Federal law from delivering "non-urgent" parcels.

Well, I can attest to the losses

[AnswerIs42]

When I use to have a gamefly account, I would loose 3 out of every 5 disks in transit (had something like 30 games not show up over the 5 years I had an account). I would get ripped open envelopes that were taped shut.. I had cut open ones show up. I had one envelope show up so badly mangled they put it inside another envelope. ALL of them had the disks missing.. sometimes I would get the empty game holding envelope.

I looked into the transfer route after the first few are missing.. Gamefly center -> receiving office -> transfer location 1 -> transfer location 2 -> local post office

The post office tried to tell me that is was AFTER the mail was delivered that the thefts happened. I had a PO Box... so that still tells me it is within the system they went missing.

When gamefly went to the current packaging, the missing disk numbers did drop back to 1 in 10 or so. but when they did go missing, I would not even get an envelope in the mail.

Re:Well, I can attest to the losses

[noidentity]

When I use to have a gamefly account, I would loose 3 out of every 5 disks in transit

Please tell me you see both errors above.

Re:Well, I can attest to the losses

[LethargicParasite]

Three:

• "use" -> "used"
• "loose" -> "lose"
• "disk" -> "disc"

I DEMAND EVERYONE SPEAK MY FIRST LANGUAGE PERFECTLY LOL

"Destinating"

[mike260]

...is a word now?

I also enjoyed this gem:

(a) The present tense includes the past tense and the past tense includes the present tense; and

(b) The singular includes the plural and the plural includes the
singular.

I unconsciously started humming the theme from 'Brazil' as I was reading this little masterpiece.

Re:"Destinating"

[mike260]

And I nearly overlooked this one:

“Each” includes the term “every” and “every” includes the term “each.” “Any” includes the term “all” and “all” includes the term “any.” “And” includes the term “or” and “or” includes the term “and.”

Genius.

Re:"Destinating"

[bws111]

What exactly is wrong with that? It's called defining your terms, and is quite common in legal documents. I would much rather read a document that had terms defined like that at the beginning than one that was full of do/did, each/every, thing(s), and/or, any/all ... "Did/do you ship any/all games(s) and/or movie(s)?"

Re:"Destinating"

[Anonymous Coward]

You really need to get laid or something. Actually, that's probably not possible. Just go rub one out. Now. You need it.

Re:"Destinating"

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you're being sarcastic. If 'and' == 'or' then when asked "Did you ship game A and B?" when you actually only shipped game A you can still answer "yes" since 'and' includes 'or'.

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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Such high quality service!

[Anonymous Coward]

With something as high quality as this sort of thing, I simply can't imagine why FedEx, UPS, and a ton of other delivery service are pounding the USPS into the ground.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[Skater]

Why on earth would the USPS care who's sending the packages

I can't provide a citation, but I thought that Netflix had various special arrangements with the USPS due to their huge mail volume. Yes, I'm being vague because I don't remember specifics, but things like discounted rates and even possibly specialized delivery/pickup schedules from the Netflix distribution centers.

Any business can get arrangement that if they have a high enough volume and meet certain addressing criteria on the envelopes. Unfortunately I can't find it on their website, but I know it's there somewhere.

sick the dogs on em

[hemlock00]

INAL, but I think it could be a start of a legal issue in that, when the USPS is accepting a package to deliver and fails to do so in a magnitude of millions in "lost" mail and offering an extremely slow response. Beyond that, I would bet that if/when the question list is answered, no change will occur. Another point I hope either UPS or Fedex see is that there is a market for cheap "it-gets-there-when-it-gets-there" delivery which only the post office really offers now. I believe that if the people could send little packages like dvds/games for 2 bucks using fedex or UPS, the post office would go under since it's already so far in the red.

Re:sick the dogs on em

[SpeZek]

Except UPS and FedEx arguable suck just as much.

I had a birthday present sent to me twice via UPS (Premium even!). The first time, they delivered it to the wrong house and someone signed for it. I complained but they basically said "You signed for it. Tough luck." Second time? Same thing. After the shipper and I specifically told them to double-check the address and the signature.

Hell, that's even worse than my xmas present, which was through USPS/CPS. That one got stuck in customs for 4 months, then shipped back with no explanation.

At least it's not as bad as when I had a (very sentimental) ring sent to me via USPS and somebody pried off the gemstone and stole the chain.

Thing is, the employees are all minimally paid and unaccountable. UPS, FedEx, Purolator, or gov't. They don't give a shit how many Christmasses or birthdays they fuck up.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[AndersOSU]

IIRC netflix doesn't get a volume discount, they may even pay a premium for hand sorting of their mail. I think the calculation was that it's cheaper to pay the USPS to hand sort DVDs shipped in paper than spend the money on packaging that can handle the standard automated process.

Poor way to run a business

[Duane13]

So let me get this straight, a struggling company, on the verge of being bankrupt is asking a huge customer, to evaluate the cost model of using other delivery methods other than themselves? Don't you think that a failing company would be bending over backwards to ensure high value clients have their high value parcels protected? Seems like these kind of letters and responses to big clients are the reasons why the USPS is failing.

It's not our fault

[brand13]

The PO is its own worst enemy. From the $1.2B FSS debacle, (which the OIG said was a waste of time and the PO should scrap), to the processing machines that bend every piece of mail which goes thru them. Some mail is not made to be machineable in the manner of letters and postcards. Keys,license plates, pens, CDs, DVDs, 1/2 inch thick payment books, all come to mind. Sure, these should never be in letter sorting machines in the first place. But the PO in its zeal to make itself look good, will cram anything it can thru these machines to keep it's piece count high. The PO mismanagement is too stupid to consider that these things cause jams, stopping the machine, and lowering the piece count. I see broken dvds every day that go thru letter sorting machines at the PO. The feeders sometimes strip the dvd out of the envelope, sorting the empty envelope, leaving the dvd scratched, broken, or on the floor. CDs & DVDs are not made to be bent, but somehow this is Gamefly's fault. They should never be sorted as regular mail, but as packages. http://www.teterboro-online.com/news/news03/usps/dbcs.shtml

Re:It's not our fault

[Anonymous Coward]

The PO is its own worst enemy. From the $1.2B FSS debacle, (which the OIG said was a waste of time and the PO should scrap), to the processing machines that bend every piece of mail which goes thru them.
Some mail is not made to be machineable in the manner of letters and postcards. Keys,license plates, pens, CDs, DVDs, 1/2 inch thick payment books, all come to mind. Sure, these should never be in letter sorting machines in the first place. But the PO in its zeal to make itself look good, will cram anything it can thru these machines to keep it's piece count high. The PO mismanagement is too stupid to consider that these things cause jams, stopping the machine, and lowering the piece count.
I see broken dvds every day that go thru letter sorting machines at the PO. The feeders sometimes strip the dvd out of the envelope, sorting the empty envelope, leaving the dvd scratched, broken, or on the floor. CDs & DVDs are not made to be bent, but somehow this is Gamefly's fault. They should never be sorted as regular mail, but as packages.

http://www.teterboro-online.com/news/news03/usps/dbcs.shtml

wow....good luck informing these people on the way we do things at the PO. I tried and gave up. For the record I am an ET at a Major P&DC and you are correct in the PO being it's own worst enemy.

You're joking, right?

[phorm]

From the breakage issues I've had with FedEx, I avoid them at all costs, especially on international shipments. LCD's in original box+bubble, cracked. Other packages, gouged, dented, shredded, etc

With UPS, my stuff arrives on time, but if it's incoming (US->Canada) then they hold it ransom at the border for *massive* duties + taxes. The taxes I have no problem paying, those go to the government, but the processing fees from UPS can be $25+ on a $100 item. The funny thing about those fees? I recently had UPS screw up and quote me one price, then charge my card another. Apparently the fees are based on the declared *value* of the item, so when they converted USD-CAD it came up in a higher bracket. I'm sorry, but nailing the recipient with an extra fee when you KNEW what it would be based on the declared value should be fraud, that thing was already paid for shipping at the Postal Outlet, so you KNEW how much it should cost. But "oh, I've got this shiny package here, but you can't have it unless you pay our blood money" seems to be the prevalent attitude.

It's too bad that USPS is having such issues in the US, but it seems strange to me, as when shipping between Canada->US, they've continuously been the best option for me. In cases where it does get delayed for duties/etc, it's usually just the straight tax and maybe $5 for processing, and my packages have never arrived broken that I can remember. Not to mention that for a comparable price, USPS Priority gets here faster, whereas UPS sends the damn thing ground on what's probably a moped.

That's just "discovery"; it's normal.

[Fringe]

As bizarre as it seems, the USPS reply is just part of the normal "discovery" process. They're treating this as a lawsuit, and ensuring they have requested all relevant information. GameFly does not have to answer all the questions; they can respond to each question with answers such as:

• This is too broad (or general)
• This is irrelevant
• Please explain your justification for requiring this

Such answers do not generally prejudice the outcome, but they would preclude GameFly from providing that data later to back up their case. The strategy is a bit of harassement but a lot of information gathering.

Junk Mail

[ebombme]

One fix to this would be for USPS to stop SHOVING my mailbox FULL with advertisements that they get paid to distribute, but I never once requested or signed up for!!!

Re:Junk Mail

[clintp]

One fix to this would be for USPS to stop SHOVING my mailbox FULL with advertisements that they get paid to distribute, but I never once requested or signed up for!!!

The USPS doesn't know that you've [not] signed up for GameFly either, that your account is current and that the correct game is in the envelope. The mail is packaged correctly, adheres to postal rules, addressed to you, it has proper postage, so it gets delivered to you. The USPS should be neutral about the suitability of the material being delivered.

(It's like Net Neutrality, except that the spam is legitimately *paid for*.)

Re:Junk Mail

[ebombme]

The USPS doesn't know that you've [not] signed up for GameFly either, that your account is current and that the correct game is in the envelope. The mail is packaged correctly, adheres to postal rules, addressed to you, it has proper postage, so it gets delivered to you. The USPS should be neutral about the suitability of the material being delivered.

(It's like Net Neutrality, except that the spam is legitimately *paid for*.)

Spam is spam, paid for or not. It's unwelcome, and unrequested. The mass distribution of mailers is wrong, and the USPS knows it. They even provide a way to 'Opt-out' of them like spam (why, Yes I am on the list!) Please don't try to justify unwarranted spam it by pointing out that it is legitimately paid for. It is still no more legitimate or welcome than if xxxHackerxxx paid Google mail to mass mail every email addresses Inbox. If they did that most people would pitch a fit.

You do have a point about how to determine what is requested and unrequested though, but in this case your point is moot because where most people draw the line between what is legitimate adverts mailed from the originators location and what is spam, is that it traveled through the USPS system to a single recipient. The stuff that is distributed out of the back of my mailman's truck in large stacks that go into every mailbox along his route isn't one piece of mail to an individual person. If a company want's to mass mail everyone in a city, let them pay the same postage that we have to and print every flyer with a unique address. The USPS would make far more money that way, and maybe they could lower the price of the stamp (yeah right). Don't even get me started on the waste of trees for that matter.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[bill_mcgonigle]

I think the calculation was that it's cheaper to pay the USPS to hand sort DVDs shipped in paper than spend the money on packaging that can handle the standard automated process.

No wonder the post office is bankrupt! I wonder if Netflix could teach them something about building sorting machines.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[JWSmythe]

And the really big question, are you sure they really were "stolen" and not just kept.

    I think you have an extremely valid question here.

    For most people, they'll rent a movie, watch it once, and return it.

    For gamers, they'll rent a game, play it, like it, and possibly keep wanting to play it for a while. Rather buying it, they can just say "I never got it", and it's now considered lost in transit.

    I've received quite a few disks from Netflix that were scratched beyond use. No big deal. Report the scratch so they'll toss it when they receive it. I haven't received any broken disks. CD's and DVD's are actually fairly hard to break. Take one and flex it til it breaks. Watch your eyes though. :) If I remember from the article correctly, they only have 3 distro centers, so it's perfectly possible that some employees at the local sorting station break them on purpose. I knew someone who worked as a sorter at a USPS distro center. He said they mistreated mail fairly regularly. If the label wasn't printed with a zip+4 zipcode, it would get tossed into a separate bin and processed last on the shift. If they were handwritten, and the address wasn't totally clear, even if it was just one possibly confusing letter, it got tossed into the bin to process later. That was regardless if the confusing letter would cause confusion (is that "main st", "maln st", or "ma1n st", and that zip only had a "main st").

    That's not to say all USPS workers disregard priority of mail to suit their own personal agenda, it's just that some employees don't perform their tasks to the best interest of the customers. You get that anywhere.

    I knew someone who worked for UPS (the commercial shipping company, not USPS). At their center, they handled domestic returns for a consumer electronics company (Linksys, if I remember correctly). Those boxes were tossed around because they received so many and they were annoying. Some people were careful to load the delivery trucks in the order they would be delivered in. Some people just loaded the delivery trucks as quickly as possible to make their work easier.

    I know with FedEx, I once was receiving a small package. I saw the driver go by and I needed the package, so I went to the local distro center when they should have been arriving. I asked the person at the counter asked about my package, as it was marked as being on the truck for delivery. Rather than putting my small package on their small package shelf, it was just thrown in the truck, and ended up behind a large box on the floor. It took them 20 minutes to find it on the truck, since it wasn't where it should have been. It helped that I was patient, and described the size of the package so they knew it was small, so it must have ended up somewhere in the truck. He hadn't stopped at my place, because he didn't see it in the truck, so he assumed I had already collected it from the distro center before he left.

    I've had a lot of stuff shipped. Most of it makes it through fine. I got a large box with 3 servers in it once, where it was obvious that a forklift had run through the side of it. A couple boxes with monitors shipped at the same time got to their destinations absolutely destroyed. Since they were on different sides of the country, I have to assume it happened at the local center. At least they weren't expensive. I sold them on eBay, and just absorbed the expense.

     

Re:..."Each" includes the term "every"

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

"Every" is a great word- a complete logical concept neatly packaged for consumption in a single word. . The same for "Each".

GameFly vs Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix has employed an ex-Post Master General. They also have their own special lines at distribution centers. They send a significant amount more disks than GameFly or any other service - but the main reason is they simply hired a guy that knew all the right people to talk to to get their discs handled properly. They worked the system from the top down. GameFly could also hire an ex-Post Master General and do the same thing. :) After all in business, it's mostly about who you know.

Also, netflix sends people to each post office, every single day, to pick up the netflix return discs. The reasoning is it's cheaper to pick them up instead of letting them run through the sorting process (that's what breaks the discs, going around the sorter bends).

Netflix additionally purchases Movies in bulk, they are special Netflix editions. They come with no boxes or cases, simply a spool of dvds. The Game Industry is not setup the same as the movie industry and aren't setup for this kind of service. Netflix also has a royalty system with the movie industry, again the Game Industry is not setup for that. So netflix pays $1.50 a movie for the dvd, and then pays royalties per rental. They can have a disk break after 4 rentals and still make a profit. GameFly has to buy games for normal distribution cost, $10 to $30. They incure much more loss when a disk breaks - and they all eventually break - it should be a part of their pricing strategy.

Different products

[brkello]

A DVD costs what? Like $12 to $20? Games these days are $50 to $60. I imagine the theft rate would be a lot higher for their products.

And as far as the USPS response, I think the summary is fairly stupid blaming it on government employees. This is lawyer speak...and it is the same for the USPS as it is for any other corporation. But Slashdot sure hates the government, so let's feed in to that.

Re:Did they try to work it out or just FILE FILE F

[Guysmiley777]

Gamefly's mailer is much, much more durable than the current Netflix one. I suspect part of it is that Gamefly caters to a different customer base, one who is more likely claim a game lost and keep it, and that's magnified by the fact it's a $50-60 game instead of a $10-15 movie.