FCC Allows Blocking of Set-Top Box Outputs

bth writes with this excerpt of an AP story as carried by Yahoo: "Federal regulators are endorsing Hollywood's efforts to let cable and satellite TV companies turn off output connections on the back of set-top boxes to prevent illegal copying of movies. ... In its decision Friday, the agency stressed that its waiver includes several important conditions, including limits on how long studios can use the blocking technology. The FCC said the technology cannot be used on a particular movie once it is out on DVD or Blu-ray, or after 90 days from the time it is first used on that movie, whichever comes first."

Comments

PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[deathcow]

1) pirates unaffected
2) legit consumers annoyed and prevented from seeing their movie

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[bughunter]

3) legit customers resort to piracy
4) MPAA cites increasing piracy to justify further usability-sacrificing restrictions
GOTO 1)

(really, you could flatten this loop anywhere, but the only realistic place to break out of it is at step 4)

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[The MAZZTer]

The idea is the signal is encrypted so it's a bit more complicated. Fortunately these guys have done all the dirty work for you if I understand this correctly.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[andymadigan]

Presumably the only remaining working output would be HDCP-encrypted HDMI output, that's what would be connected to the TV.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[gandhi_2]

MPAA considered harmful.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

1) pirates unaffected

Its better than that. Pirates should be celebrating.
What this means is that the MAFIAA thinks they can do day & date releases on Pay-Per-View and in the theaters.

However, there will always be at least a handful of people with the means to capture such PPV transmissions and distribute copies on the net. So it means no more need for crappy camcorders in the theaters and the consequent risk of the recently legislated crazy-ass sentences for getting caught doing so. Now, the pirates can comfortably record new theatrical releases in the safety of their own homes and their hundreds of millions of friends on the net can all download new theatrical releases in HD-quality long before the movies are released on bluray.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

(really, you could flatten this loop anywhere, but the only realistic place to break out of it is at step 4)

The problem is that the only one of those things most execs give a flying damn about addressing is (1). If along with their new DRM they added amazing new capabilities--say creating a mobile device with apps and sleek form factor that plays your protected content anywhere, to address (2), or giving an online store to easily purchase content to fix (3)--then that wouldn't be half bad. Unless of course Apple does that, in which case fuck all.

But seriously. I have an iTouch with some limited content on it, and will be upgrading to its bigger cousin when I have the money to spare. It does kind of bother me that I can't take my iTunes-bought video and put it on various devices--along with other objections--but the iPhone OS model, which is culminated in the iPad, is really an object lesson for people who think that suing is the only way to stop piracy.

Yes, iPhones get hacked, and yes, they only operate with iTunes, and yes, apps and music are still stolen a lot in spite of their efforts. However, the biggest advantage they have over the *AAs is that they give you compelling reason to use their products. And hey guess what! The consumers love them for it.

And no Apple bashing, please. This isn't comparing Apple to Linux, Microsoft, or Google. It's comparing them to RIAA/MPAA. I think we can all agree they're better than THEM.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[Peach Rings]

Why is it any more OK for Apple to lock down a handheld media device than it is for the MPAA to lock down your set-top-box?

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[Illogical Spock]

You can't compare these things. [ ( Satan + Hitler + Cartman + Wicked Witch of the West ) ^ 10 year total execs bonuses ] are better than **AA . It's like comparing light years with yards.

But, still, Apple is trying very hard, what makes them second place...

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[MeNeXT]

When I buy a DVD or a CD I either pay for plastic or the convenience of enjoying the content when and how I please. In one case I will only spend pennies in the other a lot more. The iTunes solution is even less appealing than the plastic.

Hollywood and musicians are selling convenient access to their content. Anything less reduces the value of their product. Once we understand the dynamics we can build the business model. Unlike the past there are billions of opportunities to make a profitable sale its only greed that is stopping it from happening today. This same greed manifests itself both on the artist side as well as the consumer side.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

I know this has been pointed out before, and I am myself tired of repeating this, but it's necessary:

1) It doesn't matter what encryption they use, the decryption key is on the device, so we'll get it eventally
2) The signal travels a long way. They can encrypt as many miles as they want, and they can encrypt the last mile, but the last 3 meters (the 3 meters from your TV to your eyes) can't be encrypted. So, eventually, the signal will need to be decrypted and there, it is vulnerable.
3) If they resort to putting mandatory DRM on your brain, and send the signal encrypted till it reaches your eyes, refer to 1) (the decryption key will be on your brain and we can get it).

What baffles me is why we are still trying to find technical workarounds to a commercial issue. People want to produce content. People want to watch content. Companies want to make money by being the middle man. This middle man has done nothing but move group 1 further and further apart from group 2. But regardless of how much they try, they won't prevent people from producing content, and won't prevent people from wanting to watch that content. We will eventually realize the artificial limitation here, remove the middle man, and find a way to pay the producers and get our content without *AAs.

To quote Megadeth: If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line, But it better work this time.

So, while all of you keep fighting each other over this moot point, I will go over to megavideo to watch Flash Forward S01E19.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[tepples]

Slashdot commenters hold monopolists to a higher standard. Apple's handheld media device has plenty of viable competitors: Android, Windows Phone 7, and even MeeGo. Your set-top box does not; without the cable box provided by the cable company, you can't receive cable TV. (Video on demand and less-popular "switched" channels don't work with a CableCARD.)

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[Phoobarnvaz]

What people are forgetting about this is...we're in the middle of the deepest recession/depression in 70 years. My roommate has all ready dropped the cable...since all the bill seems to keep doing is heading up every time a cable/satellite exec farts or needs a new boy/girlfriend. As soon as my DTV contract is up at the end of the year...that's bye-bye as well. With more & more people doing the same thing...where are all these customers going to come from for the cable companies/MPAA to keep screwing over?

If I find I'm still having trouble paying the rent this summer from not being able to find even a part-time job...will just break the contract. With rates increasing ever upward...don't need to worry about paying their salaries or my rent. Hulu...over-the-air TV & the network websites are just as good to get whatever TV fix I'm looking for.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[ktappe]

Why is it any more OK for Apple to lock down a handheld media device than it is for the MPAA to lock down your set-top-box?

1) You do not have to buy an Apple; you can get other smartphones. But much of America has no choice but to get TV from their cable company. I cannot get FiOS where I live (been on waiting list for 4 years) and trees prevent me from having satellite. So I'm stuck with that set top box. You know, the box I shouldn't even have to have if Comcast were to use a STANDARD to encode their digital so that my Media Center could work without an IR blaster? That box right there.

2) Apple is a vendor. Comcast is a vendor. The MPAA is not a vendor. You cannot choose to or not to purchase from them. They insidiously work behind the scenes on crap like this, whereas you know up front when buying an Apple that it's locked down. It's a minor but notable distinction from the point above.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[sumdumass]

There is probably going to be some sort of code injected into the video that will allow detection of which subscriber recorded the video. It wouldn't be all that hard to do either. Simply having a cut scene where a different brand of drink is used or some labeling being different can be done to track down which geographical region the PPV happened in, using something like the display on a clock can show the time and date it was shown and one or two other things could narrow it down to a specific vendor. Or they could just inject a few artifacts into the video that would contain all the important information as well.

All that can be done by computer when the video is streamed to the user. It can be documented and stored. It wouldn't surprise me if it's not already able to be done and they aren't jumping on it in order to catch the major distributors.

Of course what can be done by the MPAA can also be undone by the user with another computer depending on how much detail they want to get into. Something as simple as cutting several copies together into one full length feature could pretty much inject so much uncertainty to make enforcement near impossible.

I'm suggesting this so you don't run out and be the first ones to discover it. Look for this crap before doing it- even if your not the one I'm replying to.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[mehrotra.akash]

Yea, similar stuff is already being done but in a more obvious way, random numbers popping up on the screen.
Waiting for them to move to more subtle ways so that atleast when paying for the stuff I dont have to have blocks of numbers with opaque backgrounds showing up in the middle of the screen blocking my view

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[Dutchmaan]

Why do people continue to insist that 'nothing' is a viable choice in the *marketplace*?

My way or the highway does not constitute a market choice.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[symbolic]

Maybe because 'nothing' can be a highly motivating factor for those that want 'something' (typically your money).

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[TheRaven64]

Slashdot commenters hold monopolists to a higher standard

Nope, the law holds companies that are in a position to abuse their market share to a higher standard. Slashdot readers, by and large, don't accept 'but we don't have a monopoly' as an excuse for being an asshat. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's admirable.

Re:PREDICTIONS ARE IN

[TheRaven64]

I realise that Slashdot is an international forum, so English may not be your first language, but you should generally only use 'all' for groups of more than two. It is better to say 'both of the HD-DVD fanboys.'

Best DRM

[TheMeuge]

Federal regulators are endorsing Hollywood's efforts to let cable and satellite TV companies turn off output connections on the back of set-top boxes to prevent illegal copying of movies

Good. Turning off ALL the outputs will certainly prevent those movies from being copied. I've always thought that such an approach will be the ultimately successful DRM the companies are looking for.

Here's a hint consumers...

[pspahn]

Pay for something else!

Could it be that Federal Regulators might actually want you to stop subscribing to crappy services?

Adam Smith would be so proud.

Saw it coming... rolled my own

[bughunter]

Tactics like this are exactly why I prefer systems like MythTV for windows and EyeTV for Mac. Heck, I can much more easily expand my storage space and install commercial skipping scripts with those, so I'll just roll my own PVR.

For sources, you can get clear QAM service on most cable systems, including broadcast digital HDTV. And there's things like Boxee, Hulu, Miro and of course, bittorrent.

Re:Saw it coming... rolled my own

[TheRaven64]

No one. Then these companies can go out of business and ones that think selling a product that people want to buy in a format that they're willing to pay for is a good idea. Or maybe the shareholders will vote the current board out and replace them with a more competent one that has the same idea.

Why?

[gillbates]

Um, how exactly does this those folks downloading content off the net?

Oh, wait. It doesn't. Instead, it gives me one less reason to use an STB, and one more reason to ditch cable.

With every passing year I consume less and less commercial content. Hollywood's most effective DRM to date has been their adversarial attitude toward their customers; they can't seem to figure out that I'm not going to pay for what I can't enjoy. Funny, that.

Seriously?

[Voyager529]

I mean not for nothing, but I don't think I've ever seen a movie being distributed on the internet that's been ripped from a cable box. There isn't even a Scene spec for it. By time movies hit Pay-Per-View, there's almost always a version of the film circulating the internet. Maybe somewhere, somehow, there's an exception, but the only piracy I could possibly see this deterring is Joe Sixpack using a set-top DVD recorder to lend to Frank Furter. Stopping piracy is one thing, but I'm wondering how much further this string of ridiculousness can go. Actually, that's probably a bad thing to wonder...

Re:Seriously?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I mean not for nothing, but I don't think I've ever seen a movie being distributed on the internet that's been ripped from a cable box. There isn't even a Scene spec for it.

Scene is far from be all and end all of video piracy, especially when it comes to quality - scene is really only for stupid little kids who are more interested in their silly little rules and their rush to see who can 'release' something first - scene doesn't give a damn about quality, its all quantity and ego. There are plenty of people sharing movies outside of 'the scene' and all their drama.

Years before bluray, hddvd, or even x264 and mkv people were distributing full-bitrate HDTV caps as mpeg2 transport streams (.ts files). There were two main sources - over the air broadcasts and caps from channels like HBO and Showtime, occasionally people would share caps from 'wildfeeds' - 45mbps satellite backhauls. Ironically, as it is today, almost all PPV transmissions are unencrypted. They might have the 'no copy' bit set, but on the wire between the head-end and the cable box, they are in the clear. So if you tune to the right QAM channel you can record most PPV shows, even the ones your neighbors are watching (just hope they don't pause or rewind because you'll record that too). There are even some scripts floating around out there to periodically scan the block of channels used for PPV and record anything that shows up. Kind of the DVR version of google's "I'm feeling lucky."

Looks rather weak to me logically

[Captain Spam]

The FCC said the technology cannot be used on a particular movie once it is out on DVD or Blu-Ray, or after 90 days from the time it is first used on that movie, whichever comes first.

Wait, wait. What?

So let me get this straight... once the movie is released on DVD or Blu-Ray, the technology is not allowed to be used on it? As in, this only (theoretically) affects... what, just the movies that hit PPV a week or so before they hit DVD/Blu-Ray? That's it?

I mean, that's weak not just from a technological standpoint. That's weak the whole way around. Do people actually pirate movies off of PPV to any extent to make this even worthwhile? Do people actually USE PPV that much? I thought it was all DVD/Blu-Ray copies or leaked theatre reels or whatnot.

Wow. That just seems... sad.

FCC, FDA, etc

[OrwellianLurker]

The Federal government isn't on our side. Anyone with a clue has already realized this.

Re:FCC, FDA, etc

[quickgold192]

The Federal government isn't on our side. Anyone with a clue has already realized this.

Funny. Isn't that like some kind of cue for a people to "alter or abolish it?"

Re:FCC, FDA, etc

[OrwellianLurker]

The Federal government isn't on our side. Anyone with a clue has already realized this.

Funny. Isn't that like some kind of cue for a people to "alter or abolish it?"

And promptly be labeled as terrorists and hated by all other Americans. And soon enough, get your citizenship stripped.

Re:Bad sign

[KahabutDieDrake]

I'm not sure why you think the FCC is there to protect consumers. It's not. It exists to look out for business investments. The FCC in my lifetime has consistently sided with "big business" over private interests. This isn't exactly odd however. The FDA is similar in it's function, if not it's charter.

MPAA news

[tepples]

$$ for advertising

It's not just the advertising but also the content. Five MPAA studios own all TV news outlets except PBS, and they decide which stories to run or not to run.

How about my 5 year old DLP set?

[zerofoo]

My 6 year old DLP set is hardly old technology, yet it does not have HDMI inputs. It only has unencrypted DVI inputs and analog inputs.

If all the unencrypted outputs are disabled, how do I connect my HDTV to the set top box?

I refuse to throw away a $4000 television because big-content has a piracy problem. I have an antenna on my roof, and it does a damn good job of getting me 40 digital channels for free. Cable companies should be very careful where they tread. The internet and an antenna satisfy almost all of my TV needs.

-ted

Re:How about my 5 year old DLP set?

[Pentium100]

Use this: http://www.hdfury.com/

Re:How about my 5 year old DLP set?

[MBCook]

That's why the FCC made this decision the way it did. Actually, it seems like a really fair decision to me.

They did not say Hollywood could cut the analog (or unencrypted digital) signal any time they wanted. DVDs will be the same, and your Comcrud DVR can't disable it's non-HDMI output when HBO plays Spiderman 2 or some other previously released movie.

This is only for movies that aren't available otherwise in the home, and only for a limited time. As Ars Technica said, this was designed explicitly so that you don't lose functionality. If you can watch it today, you can watch it next month and next year.

When Aladin 4: Jafar Gets a Haircut comes out next year, Hollywood can choose to put it on PPV in a way you won't be able to watch, but after 3 months (or when they release it on DVD/Blueray, whatever is first), they have to stop doing that, and allow you to watch it.

It only effects new content. Compared to what Hollywood has been demanding, this is extremely fair and reasonable. It's unnecessary and anti-consumer, but it's not that bad. Just like I now have to wait an extra 30 days to get some stuff from Netflix, you'll have to wait a little longer for some content.

Why stop with just outputs?

[zymurgy_cat]

I'm surprised the MPAA hasn't asked for the ability to disable your friends' cars so they can't drive over to watch the movie at your house. That way, they'd have to pay to watch it at their houses. Obviously, for those without cars, they'd need a waiver to cap their knees so they can't walk, bike, or rollerskate over to your house. A waiver to jam sticks in wheelchair spokes should also be granted.

Re:No this is good.

[natehoy]

Good. Then the average person who doesn't understand the whole debate will now get the message that they are being fucked with loud and clear.

In related news...

[tlambert]

The FCC said the technology cannot be used on a particular movie once it is out on DVD or Blu-Ray, or after 90 days from the time it is first used on that movie, whichever comes first.

In related news... the Copyright Act of 1790 granted copyright for a term of "fourteen years from the time of recording the title thereof", with a right of renewal for another fourteen years if the author survived to the end of the first term.

I'm sure they won't enable the technology to do this, and then change the terms out from under us once the technological means are present.

-- Terry

They won't turn them all off

[Sycraft-fu]

Just all the analogue ones. The media industry is convinced that HDMI with HDCP is completely uncrackable and thus what they need to go with. Output over HDMI only, and then nobody can capture your signal.

Of course there's plenty of ways around that, HDCP is not particularly good encryption and has been broken in numerous ways. However they are convinced if they can just get everyone on it, things will be great.

However that screws over anyone with an older display. If you have a display that was made before HDCP came in to play (or before they had digital inputs), you are SOL.

So what will happen is pirates will simply get around it and distribute the content, legit consumers will get screwed. Same as always.

Re:They won't turn them all off

[Sycraft-fu]

You don't need to do that. I haven't gone looking recently, but there were HDCP remover devices out there. More or less they acted as repeaters, the input side negotiates HDCP so the device is happy, but the output side doesn't check with the device it is hooked to.

However, while those might be hard to locate because of the DCMA and all that garbage, you can simply convert it to analogue. The HDFury devices are quite popular with projector heads that have old equipment without HDMI. It takes HDMI, with HDCP, and converts it to VGA, 5-cable component, or 3-cable component. Take that and feed it in to a Blackmagic Intensity and there you go, HD capture solution. Now there's be a very tiny bit of quality loss since you are going digital/analogue/digital, but not much. Probably no more than the quality loss of decompressing an MPEG-2 stream and recompressing it to something else, which you'd be doing anyhow.

While the setup I'm talking about isn't all that cheap. You are talking probalby $100-200 for the HDFury 3, and then another $200 for the Intensity. However that's all it takes.

Also this is only necessary for broadcasts, ad with Blu-ray discs people simply crack the encryption and nab the original compressed data.

Re:This seems absurd, did I get that correctly?

[Pentium100]

Seems that there are devices that can decode HDCP to analog.

HDfury3 specifications:

Input: 2 x HDMI v1.3 (DVI 1.0 compatible) (Switch: Auto / PortA / PortB )
Output: VGA FEMALE output connector, 10 bit analog resolution.
Output format: Either RGB or YPbPr, dip-switch selectable
HDCP supported (Integrated HDCP decipher engine, Pre-programmed HDCP key) ...

"...to prevent illegal copying of movies."

[John Hasler]

No. To prevent legal copying of movies. See Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.

Speaking of the MPAA

[kurt555gs]

Does anyone have the GPS addy of of Jack Valenti's final resting place in Arlington National Cemetery? Next time I am in Washington DC, I would go out of my way to stop there and piss on his grave. Actually, this could be a new Slashdot "thing".

Re:Wait...

[Anarki2004]

Excellent rebuttal. I retract my statement.

Paradigm Shift

[Mike610544]

I think we're going to have to go back to the patronage model.
I would donate $10,000 for a new season of Firefly.