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John Carmack To Cut Space Tourism Prices 50%

An anonymous reader writes "Looks like John Carmack, through Armadillo Aerospace, will be battling Burt Rutan and Richard Branson to make space travel affordable. From the article: 'Space Adventures is going to use an Armadillo Technologies rocket to launch amateur astronauts 62 miles into the sky. Nothing new, except that they will do it at half the price of Virgin Galactic's ticket, and in a real rocket!' Perhaps I'll visit space, after all."

185 comments

  1. YAY! Now I can afford to go! by newdsfornerds · · Score: 3, Funny

    As soon as I sell my Fijian island.

    --
    Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
    1. Re:YAY! Now I can afford to go! by Cryacin · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yeah, you'd have to be a real space cadet to fall for this.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:YAY! Now I can afford to go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the source, I'd say think twice, thrice or so about taking Carmac's trip to mars. Especially once his company takes on the name Union Aerospace Corporation.

    3. Re:YAY! Now I can afford to go! by Meski · · Score: 1

      But it only travels in 2.5 dimensions

  2. There's a catch... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You're paying for a one-way ticket to go up into space. Coming down from space will be free.

    1. Re:There's a catch... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're paying for a one-way ticket to go up into space.

      Clearly a space terrorist then, make sure his name gets put on the no launch list.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:There's a catch... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hush, don't spoil their business model. The ticket is one way... but when you get into space they'll sell you a return ticket. If you don't want one, they'll let you get out and walk home.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:There's a catch... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Hey, this is a suborbital trip. So, given a pressure suit and a parachute, you could get out and walk home.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:There's a catch... by NoNeeeed · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of an old saying I heard a lot when I worked in the aerospace industry...

      "Takeoff is optional, landing is mandatory"

    5. Re:There's a catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Um, Ya. can I get that as an alternative to a regular cremation?
      Just shove my empty shell out the ship into a decaying orbit, hopefully wrapped in foil so my loved ones can plot my re-entry as a memorial.

      I am not kidding.

    6. Re:There's a catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, this is a suborbital trip. So, given a pressure suit and a parachute, you could get out and walk home.

      Those are available for purchase prior to disembarking at a fair and reasonable price.

    7. Re:There's a catch... by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Pressure suit and a semi-wearable gliding wing would be so SO much more epic.

      Remember not to open the 'chute until you're down below about 15,000 feet or you'll freeze to death before you hit the ground.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    8. Re:There's a catch... by loraksus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless you end up in an uncontrollable spin, pass out and die.

      But yeah, that would be fun.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    9. Re:There's a catch... by fractoid · · Score: 1

      That's why you have a parachute too. It's not rocket sci- erm... it's not complicated.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  3. It ain't space below 7km/s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Most of the difficulty lies in accelerating up to orbit and decelerating from it. Currently, only Space Adventures is offering that by reserving seats on Soyuz spacecraft. Sub-orbital shots require neither powerful rockets nor massive heat-shielding.

    1. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Technically speaking, I can give most folks a sub-orbital flight with my bare hands... as long as there is something I can grab (that won't pull off during the "launch").

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    2. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by BiggerBoat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It ain't space below 7km/s

      Hmm, I guess Alan Shepard wasn't the first American in space after all (considering Freedom 7 had a suborbital trajectory, and had a max velocity of well below 7km/s).

    3. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 0, Troll

      He wasn't. U.S. just desperately needed something for its propaganda campaign to counter Gagarin's flight, and sooner rather than later - it couldn't admit that it was lagging that far behind.

    4. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by BiggerBoat · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, he was.. By the definition of everyone that matters, anyway.

    5. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by khallow · · Score: 0

      Orbit isn't space, it is a trajectory.

    6. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by camperdave · · Score: 2, Informative

      It ain't space below 7km/s

      Where did you get that idea? Space is anything above 100km from the surface. Suborbital is any launch trajectory that intersects the surface of the planet.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Space is not orbit. If you want to stay in space for a significant period of time, you must attain an orbit, but they're not one and the same. And I'm pretty sure anyone paying serious attention to this field recognizes that a suborbital shot is significantly easier than an orbital one. At any rate, easy is relative.

      Don't play semantics, you usually end up making an ass of yourself.

      - A rocket scientist

    8. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me, there are other people that matter besides lawyers. For engineers, spaceflight begins at 7km/s. John Glenn was the first American in space.

    9. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't people's opinions that matter, it's what you can do that matters. A suborbital flight is useful only as a way to test technologies that are to be used in real spacecraft. There's scientific value that can be derived from it of course but you could say the same about half a slice of toast. There is a good reason why there's no industrial market for these flights.

    10. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gp post might have not stated the case well, but it has a point. Calling a suborbital plane a spaceship is like calling a steel drum raft an ocean liner. For any practical application a suborbital craft is next to useless - if you're not interested in orbit you might as well use either a parabolic flight much lower down or a balloon.

    11. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by BiggerBoat · · Score: 1

      It isn't people's opinions that matter, it's what you can do that matters.

      With regard to the definition of where space begins? No, that has absolutely nothing to do with what can be done there.

      There is a good reason why there's no industrial market for these flights.

      Yep: cost. There are a great deal of researchers waiting to get their instruments into the "ignorosphere" once the cost allows it.

    12. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by BiggerBoat · · Score: 1

      Haha, tell that to the engineers at NASA (and its predecessor NACA), Fédération Aéronautique Internationale, the Department of Defense, the FAA-AST, etc. And let me know when you do tell them that, I'd like to be there so I can watch them laugh at you.

    13. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by khallow · · Score: 1

      gp post might have not stated the case well, but it has a point.

      I disagree, I'm tired of the people twisting words to mean nonstandard things. "Spaceship" simply means a vehicle in space (which is defined as everything over 100 km altitude). For example, going to your raft example, it'd be like calling a raft a "boat".

      For any practical application a suborbital craft is next to useless

      We already know about space tourism. And there's point to point travel anywhere in the world in less than a couple of hours.

    14. Re:It ain't space below 7km/s by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      The point is that this isn't anything like the Space shuttle (or even Vostok 1). It goes really high. The things we think of as spaceships also go really fast - a substantially greater engineering challenge. To say 100km is space is like saying any plane that can go 101 miles is capable of intercontinental flight (Malaga to Tangier). It's technically true but it's not going to get you from New York to Paris.

  4. Half of 200k is still 100k by Meshach · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is still out of the price range of most of the population for a vacation.

    --
    "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
    Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thanks, genius.

    2. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do people still need the "early adopter" concept explained to them? We live in a technological society where new gadgets and experiences come onto the market all the time. The early adopters pay top dollar for them, this attracts competitors, and the price starts to drop.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

      ORLY?

      --
      Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
    4. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you need some physics or biology explained to you? This is not space, and staying up there is a big no-no for the human body in any case.

      Please explain how you expect the price to drop when the cost is fixed:
      1) Humans all weigh about the same
      2) The height is the same.

      Ergo, you'll need the same amount of energy, that is oil, that is money, to get the job done.

      Where you gonna cut the price? In the safety? The thickness of the rocket walls?

      Also, most people are not in good enough shape for this. Hell, most people in their 30s are already geriatric cases. The way our society works, by the time you make enough money, your body is a piece of crap. Witness the sad, middle-aged paunchy guys on 10000$ carbon fiber racing bikes.

    5. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by rolfwind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do people still need the "early adopter" concept explained to them?

      Jump in early and get burned? I hope it's not literally in this case... somehow I'd wait and have the rockets perfected by experience first...

    6. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The cost of the fuel for a flight like this is about $2000.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    7. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Shark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, it's nice to see that competition in a market can drive prices down. Now the trick is to prevent them from forming a cartel.

      --
      Mind the frickin' laser...
    8. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by oldspewey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even it it were a hundred bucks, 5 minutes isn't a vacation ... at best it's a quickie.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    9. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by tgd · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points to un-troll your post, because you're absolutely right.

      The GP is the troll.

    10. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Yes, I expect I've attracted the cabal of feminists-with-mod-points.

          http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648748&cid=32176918
          http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648748&cid=32177872

      Don't like what someone has to say? Quash their opinion with mod points.

      Been a problem with Slashdot since before your uid :)

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    11. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by brouski · · Score: 1, Troll

      Actually, no, it looks like you've just had a rash of shitty misogynistic opinions lately. Hey, maybe they make hormone therapy for that!

      --
      Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
    12. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Whether or not you think you opinions are misogynistic doesn't mean you have carte blanche to abuse the moderation system to suppress them. There is no -1 Disagree.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    13. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      That's what they say their fuel costs are.

      Turning the fuel into thrust is what the rocket engines do. Those engines and the vehicle cost a few million, thus the price per seat. Once they have paid the cost of the vehicle the price will drop again.

      It's suborbital by definition and if you'd like to go on a Zero-G flight it'll cost you about $5000, and give you 5 parabolas of about 30 seconds each of weightlessness. And guess which company you'll buy the ticket from...

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    14. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by lul_wat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been over Chinese MIG fighter pilots pressure suits and I can tell you that by our definition their pilots are skinny midgets. So I disagree about people being the same.

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    15. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by slick7 · · Score: 1

      We can always nuke the oil leak in the Gulf and put half the planet into orbit.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    16. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Well, it's nice to see that competition in a market can drive prices down. Now the trick is to prevent them from forming a cartel.

      You don't have to worry about a cartel.
      The aerospace giants will buy up the smaller companies in order to keep their oligopoly in place.
      /That's how the free market fixes these kinds of disruptions.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    17. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There isn't a -1 Completely Wrong either, but there ought to be. Especially for he comments you're busy whining about.

      Did you really think that you were contributing something useful to the conversation with those statements? If so, you are seriously deluded.

      ps: shouldn't you also be complaining about the moderator abuse that gave this comment extra points? Or was that one of your sockpuppets?

    18. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      I don't have sock puppets. You think I really could post any more comments than I already do?

      There isn't a -1 Completely Wrong either, but there ought to be.

      So you've completely missed the point.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    19. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wow. I mean WOW. Are you really 'disgusted' by people who don't make the same medication choices you would make? There is a '-1, flamebait'. That crap deserved it.

    20. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's saying people who go off their prescribed medication are being insensitive to the people around them. It doesn't sound too unreasonable to me, but his delivery sux.

    21. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're being way too kind ... his statement is that women who don't choose the medication he's in favor of are 'ignorant or negligent'. This comment does a nice job of explaining just how delusional he is: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648748&cid=32177756

    22. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      In the US, the average household net-worth is $350k.

      So, actually, most households could afford a trip to space.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    23. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Calinous · · Score: 1

      For a car, fuel costs are some half the total maintenance. That's a design that was improved in the last 100 years, and that supports the research and design costs over tens of millions of cars yearly.
            I'm surprised the fuel costs only $2000, but I'm not surprised at the cost per seat - this considers research and design costs for maybe a dozen units built, the costs of the base (buildings, transportation related to the business, storage tanks, and what not else), the employees costs (including taxes), the maintenance of the space vehicles, the (probable) hundred flights or less per rocket, insurance for bad things that might happen (I think this is a non-trivial chunk of the total costs), and so on.

    24. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by shaitand · · Score: 1

      You cut cost from the markup. These companies are making a profit sending you up there so they aren't charging the cost.

      Additionally, improved technology may or may not change the energy requirements. More efficient means of climbing that space could come along any day now.

      Lastly, the energy utilization can improve. Oil is not the only place energy can be found. The matter floating as airborne particles in my cube right now could power hundreds of those missions if we had the technology to effectively harness it. At least that's what my buddy Einstein told me and I hear he's pretty good with the physics stuff.

    25. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by J+Isaksson · · Score: 1
    26. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once they have paid the cost of the vehicle the price will drop again.

      We are not talking about WW2 surplus DC-3s here! Space systems amortize very quickly, even before they start falling apart (for minimum allowed reliability reasons). It could very likely be that they can't reuse the vehicle sufficient number of times along the span of its operative lifetime to significantly lower the prices.

      Of course, there will be a push for more sturdy technologies and materials, for exactly the reason of expanding the space tourism market, but it will take some time for the price of the trip to be dominated by the fuel price.

    27. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Space access isn't a typical fast moving market. I would bet highly that cheap access to space will be possible within a few decades, but the development costs to bring us to that point are going to be truly staggering.
       
      Frankly these space tourism companies are little more than hobbyists who have realised that they can make a living selling rides on their toys. When their prices drop it will be the work of other people being made available to them that does it - early adopters aren't going to affect the process in the slightest.

    28. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Xest · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, and I don't even think it's actually that bad a price for early adoption either.

      To many the idea of going into space is unimaginable, but getting it down to 100k means many people could afford it if they were willing to really work for it and perhaps downsize their house- i.e. if it was that important a dream to them.

      If going into space is your greatest dream, then at this price you don't even really need to be a millionaire anymore. It's a price that's in grasp of most middle class folks if they're willing to make some sacrifices for it, and the price is as you say only going to go down over time.

    29. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by asukasoryu · · Score: 1

      Where you gonna cut the price?

      Maybe you need the same amount of energy, but not the same amount of fuel, i.e. efficiency is a factor. Also, research and development make up a lot of the cost along with the cost of the vehicle and fuel. But look at the aircraft industry. There have been steady advances in materials, analysis tools, manufacturing, and mass production. The laws of aerodynamics and combustion haven't changed, but our methods have. Compare planes today and three decades ago - capacity, range, cost and fuel efficiency have improved drastically. The same could apply to the rocket industry if there was a demand for suborbital travel. I could easily see someone discovering a new fuel that uses a simpler/cheaper rocket motor and revolutionizes the entire industry.

      --
      There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    30. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by khallow · · Score: 1

      Frankly these space tourism companies are little more than hobbyists who have realised that they can make a living selling rides on their toys. When their prices drop it will be the work of other people being made available to them that does it - early adopters aren't going to affect the process in the slightest.

      Two things to remember here. First, the volume of stuff launched to orbit is very meager. If these suborbital flights lead to similarly priced orbital flights, then you'll probably see a huge increase not just in the number of people who have stayed in orbit, but just in the number of flights of any sort to orbit. Second, tourists are not the only reason for people to be in space. This sort of approach could allow researchers to nurse their experiments in space (which I hear is a real market opportunity) and for countries without manned launch capability to put their astronauts in space.

    31. Re:Half of 200k is still 100k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would require a trip for two sir.

  5. Rocket jumping. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    What the subject said...

    1. Re:Rocket jumping. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      oh snap.
      I would be game (with the addition of a human flying squirrel suit I imagine I may be able to cover quite some distance. Dunno about how much O2 I'd have to carry though...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    2. Re:Rocket jumping. by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      I was going to say, aren't there demons in space?

      Oh man, I didn't realize it was the same John Carmack.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
  6. 100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hmm. 5 minutes up in the space and 100k. Make it just a tad longer and a wee bit cheaper and I guarantee you that it won't take long for us to see the first porn clip to have been filmed in space.

    Anyways, 100k is obviously still too expensive for us regular folk but I wonder what is the price tag at which we'll consider it affordable. 50k is unlikely. 20k? still probably not... 10k? I don't know. For that amount, I might want to visit the space before I die. (Hopefully, not *just* before I die, though)

    1. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, 5 minutes seems about right to me...

    2. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To me too, I just didn't have the guts to say it. :|

      -GP

    3. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have they tried intercourse in space yet? Wouldn't the physics of no gravity make it difficult?
      But I guess the cum shot will last 30-40 seconds and might fly across the entire craft.

    4. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 1

      5 minutes? Boy, that's a long time! The 1 minute in space is perfectly fine for me!

      --
      SSC
    5. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by zmollusc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hah, you are pathetic, I last twice as long. Well, including getting undressed before and the wheezing fit afterwards. And getting dressed again.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    6. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Hey, if *just* before you die...you won't have to pay for reentry.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    7. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by Razalhague · · Score: 2, Interesting
    8. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by fractoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Srs face now: This is something that annoys me no end. Just like you'll never meet someone on the internet who doesn't have at least a 9 inch cock, and still thinks it could be an inch or two bigger, every time people talk about endurance they always say "20 minutes is still too quick, you have to last at least an hour!". That's bullshit. On the first count, anyone over about 6" who's been with more than one or two women will know that sometimes, more than 6 inches just. won't. fit. Anyone who says they're "9 inches and that all the bitches love it" is either 5" or less, or a virgin. On the second count, no matter how much lube you use, you're going to start chafing after about 15-20 minutes unless you're either fully tantric or you're both on IRC at the same time or something, and forget to make with the thrusting.

      The only correct answer is "if it's big enough that she couldn't take any more, without being too big and hurting her, and if it lasts long enough for her to get off a couple of times, but not long enough to chafe, then you're doing it right."

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    9. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by loraksus · · Score: 1

      2suit

      rule 34... guess it does work.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    10. Re:100k... Cheap enough for porn industry? by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      Srs face now: This is something that annoys me no end. Just like you'll never meet someone on the internet who doesn't have at least a 9 inch cock

      It's scary to think that for many people, everything they know about sex was learned from watching porn. They're going to get some very, very funny ideas about what women are really into. "Honey, I wanted to have sex but there just weren't enough people!"

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  7. Huh by khallow · · Score: 2, Funny

    I see that it's Space Adventures not Armadillo Aerospace that's boosting this particular advertising payload. While I applaud the optimism and enthusiasm displayed here, I must add that I'll believe it when I see it. It also seems to me that they missed a chance to have a flight to space for $99,999.99.

    1. Re:Huh by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Armadillo Aerospace is a rocket company, not a ticket selling company. Just like Scaled Composites is a plane company, and Virgin Galactic sells the tickets.

      And yes, I too will be waiting until I see it.. to see it I guess I'll have to do that :)

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Huh by Trecares · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's a 7 nines uptime.

    3. Re:Huh by Calinous · · Score: 1

      No, it's a nine fives uptime :)

    4. Re:Huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to have to wait for Space $19.99

  8. Just a thought by rattaroaz · · Score: 1

    Doesn't Mark Shuttleworth feel like a sucker now?

    1. Re:Just a thought by MichaelSmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Doesn't Mark Shuttleworth feel like a sucker now?

      No, because Mark went into orbit in a fair dinkum Russian spacecraft, which he got to fly (partly) himself. The vehicle being discussed here won't go into orbit.

    2. Re:Just a thought by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't Mark Shuttleworth feel like a sucker now?

      A quick name change to Mark Rocketworth will change that, no prob.

  9. Video by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Informative

    Crappy picture in the article, here's a video of the concept vehicle.

    At Space Access, after the grumblings about being trumped on the LLC, Carmack made the pledge that this year they'll be doing something new. Here's hoping it involves *people*.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  10. If you do this, be careful by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1, Funny

    If you do this, be careful - you may get paired up with a partner named Bitterman who is a Marine ... and end up fighting the Strogg

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  11. Let me get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The ones that haven't done it yet are undercutting the price of the guys that have done it before by 50%? Gee do we get a refund if it crashes? I think you get what you pay for is appropriate here. Maybe they can pull it off but would you want to be on the first ship?

    1. Re:Let me get this straight by causality · · Score: 1

      The ones that haven't done it yet are undercutting the price of the guys that have done it before by 50%? Gee do we get a refund if it crashes? I think you get what you pay for is appropriate here. Maybe they can pull it off but would you want to be on the first ship?

      This is an adventurous thing to do. Since when was adventure risk-free?

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  12. Launch videos of Armadillo; "real" rocket by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Informative

    I linked to this is a previous slashdot submission, but for the curious you can see video of some of Armadillo's launches in the past year here:

    http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/Gallery/Videos

    Youtube version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsdpB6UmrAw

    There was also a rather cool news update back in January describing in great detail what they've been up to for the prior 8+ months: http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=369

    Also, I disagree with the summary/gizmodo's claim that Armadillo has a "real" rocket while SpaceShipTwo isn't a real rocket. Armadillo has a VTVL (vertical take-off, vertical landing) while Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo is an air-launched HTVL (horizontal take-off, vertical landing). Both are "real" rockets.

    Finally, NASA recently put out a request for proposals for a testbed for lunar lander demonstrations, which I think will be right up Armadillo's alley. They'll probably be competing with companies like Blue Origin, Masten Space Systems (Lunar Lander Challenge winner, currently working on their "Xogdor the Meltinator" vehicle), and Unreasonable Rocket:

    http://spaceprizes.blogspot.com/2010/05/shoulda-had-tfftb-prize.html

    ETDD is for smaller technology development and demonstration projects. Expected subjects for ETDD include in situ resource utilization, autonomous precision landing, advanced in-space propulsion, closed-loop life support systems, advanced EVA, radiation shielding, human-robotic interfaces, efficient space power systems, EDL (entry, descent, and landing) technologies, high-performance materials and structures, and participatory exploration.

    The new ETDD RFI is for several technology demonstrations. The subjects of these demonstrations include:
    * In-Situ Resource Utilization: This is to demonstrate a prototype ISRU system in a vacuum chamber that can simulate lunar temperatures and that can contain lunar simulant. Later, there would be a flight demonstration at the lunar surface on a robotic precursor mission. Of course this plan brings to mind several lunar space prizes: the Regolith Excavation Challenge, the MoonROx Challenge, and the Google Lunar X PRIZE.
    * High-Power Electric Propulsion System for human spaceflight
    * Human Exploration Telerobotics: This involves ISS-to-ground telerobotics, ground-to-ISS telerobotics, and large-scale participatory exploration
    * Fission Power Systems Technology
    * Autonomous Precision Landing: This involves demonstrations on Earth of autonomous landing and hazard avoidance technologies. The long-range plan is to use the technology on a robotic lander on the Moon or other large body. The technology "Must be capable of flying on a variety of lunar lander precursor missions". The two major parts of this demonstration are the Terrestrial Free Flyer Test Bed and the Hazard Detection System.

    The Terrestrial Free Flyer Test Bed deserves special attention. This test bed needs to be able to carry 100 kg of sensor/electronics payload as well as supporting mass for other subsystems, fly up to 1 km, translate horizontally, land at various angles ending in the last 30-50 meters with vertical landing, and fly for at least 210 seconds with the payload. I didn't see anything in the RFI about propulsion, but I imagine rocket-powered vehicles would have a bit of an edge.

    1. Re:Launch videos of Armadillo; "real" rocket by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      I'll just repost this here:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsdpB6UmrAw#t=7m50s

      This is the concept vehicle the *cough* article is talking about.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Launch videos of Armadillo; "real" rocket by nametaken · · Score: 1

      I think SpaceShip Two coasts back to earth to land like the shuttle.... no?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IytjSl6voP0

    3. Re:Launch videos of Armadillo; "real" rocket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Small correction: SpaceShipTwo lands horizontally, not a vertically. Or at least it will when it gets around to the landing part.

  13. Joseph Kittinger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  14. Re:It'll never get that low. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The regulations - by the FAA's Office of Space Transportation (AST) - are already in place, and perfectly manageable. They asked John (and everyone else in the industry) for input on developing them, with a mind for both flight participant safety and safety of people on the ground.

    Sales tax would seem to apply as well, as well as federal corporate income tax.

    Are you under the impression that they'd tax it more than normal business transactions?

  15. Slingshot? by Gunfighter · · Score: 1

    "and in a real rocket" as opposed to.... what?

    --
    -- Stu

    /. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
    1. Re:Slingshot? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny

      An integer rocket.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Slingshot? by maxume · · Score: 1

      That would still be a real rocket...

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Slingshot? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      but is it double precision?

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    4. Re:Slingshot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imaginary rocket

  16. Pretty soon... by Warclock · · Score: 2, Funny

    Carmack will offer to bring back creatures from hell at half the price from other competitors. I always wanted my very own pet Baron of Hell.

    --
    Regards, Steve
    1. Re:Pretty soon... by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Whoa. I just sense-memoried pulling the trigger twice on a double-barrelled shotgun.

    2. Re:Pretty soon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try getting married

    3. Re:Pretty soon... by yanyan · · Score: 1

      No they won't, but i hear they're planning to acquire this dinky little startup called UAC that's going to handle the space creatures side of the business. Should be cool! :-)

  17. and they still make a big markup/ profit by youn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it makes you wonder about nasa prices for each missions... and also wonder why this has not happened before

    --
    Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that :p
  18. First space tourist returns with disturbing images by MRe_nl · · Score: 1
    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  19. Why not? by blair1q · · Score: 0

    Is that with or without insurance?

  20. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    it makes you wonder about nasa prices for each missions... and also wonder why this has not happened before

    NASA don't fly these missions at all unless you count unmanned sounding rockets.

  21. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by blair1q · · Score: 3, Interesting

    NASA isn't doing "tourism", it's doing science. A big part of what it does is continuous improvement and modification of the mission capabilities of their systems. These guys won't be able to afford that. They'll have to do one or two rounds of refinement then lock it in place for several dozen "missions" in order to break even, because if they don't break even, they go bankrupt and stop flying. NASA breaks even by getting the science done, wowing the taxpayers, and getting approved for another year of funding.

    BTW, NASA invented almost all of the stuff that these guys are now using, but these guys don't have to pay NASA a nickel in royalties. If they did, these tourist flights would be an order of magnitude costlier. NASA's successes paid for Carmack's profit projections.

  22. price, time, early adopter risk, and risk of death by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not rich (I'm a community college professor), but this is a price I could afford if I made it a priority in my life and planned my finances around it. Some people who make the same amount of money I do make it a priority to own a car that costs roughly this much.

    Arguments against:

    1. It's $100,000 for 5 minutes of entertainment.
    2. Related to point #1, it's possible that in 10 more years, you'd be able to pay the same amount of money to spend a week in space. A week in space would be a lot more fun. This is one of those risks you have to worry about when you're an early adopter: maybe with hindsight you'll have bought at the wrong time.
    3. It's probably impossible to quantify the risk of death. The risk would probably be considerably higher than the risk associated with a space shuttle launch and reentry ... which is actually quite high.
  23. Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or... by TwineLogic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    paying half-rate for a no-track-record was-video-game-developer who is excited to be using much more explosive to get me there...

    I would pay double for the Virgin Galactic vehicle. Rutan's Scaled Composites have made a few vehicles for a few customers, and have a long record of high-quality vehicles. With SpaceShip One, they actually flew into some definition of "space" on three occasions. So the Virgin Galactic vehicle program has a few successful flights to its record.

    I am not sure, but I don't think Armadillo Aerospace has actually launched any manned or unmanned vehicles anywhere near the altitude that SpaceShip One attained. Armadillo has flown a few VTOL/hover flights near the surface. I don't think they've flown vehicles above Mach 1, but I would be glad to see a correction.

    In short, the Armadillo program seems a little over-hyped.

    The worse consequence of all the private space program over-hyping of late is that President Obama has decided to rely on these private space companies for human space flight, starting "ASAP." We're going to lose some astronauts to hype, I fear. And we will definitely give up our "lead" in space flight.

    I am in favor of private space exploration companies, but I am against over-hyping their capabilities. We are presently making a blunder by retiring the Space Shuttle while we hope that these private suppliers get somewhere quickly.

  24. Cool tech, stupid article. by jcr · · Score: 1

    I don't know if that idiot at Gizmodo thought he was being funny or what, but that jazz about "real rocket launched vertically" was a waste of space.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Cool tech, stupid article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if that idiot at Gizmodo thought he was being funny or what, but that jazz about "real rocket launched vertically" was a waste of space.

      It's a Gawker Networks site. Nuff said. (Any website that requires Javascript to view comments, and then further requires that you click multiple options to get the equivalent of "all comments", and then further requires one-click-per-page to actually paginate the damn comments, isn't worth dealing with.)

  25. Re:It'll never get that low. by jhoegl · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Believe it or not, some people think the gubberment shouldnt regulate businesses, or tax them...

  26. Re:It'll never get that low. by beernutmark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, we should make sure it is deregulated. It worked out great for us re the financial sector and oil industries!

  27. Where is Priceline negotiator?? by Harry_Mohan · · Score: 0

    I am looking forward for priceline negotiator to reduce the prices further :P and once in space I won't ever return back to earth, since I am overloaded with credit card debt! and I believe priceline price I can surely afford from my left over credit :P

  28. Proving once again: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Private > > > Public

    John Carmack *IS* John Galt!

    1. Re:Proving once again: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what his wife thinks, anyways, since she married him and founded a business called "Fountainhead Entertainment"...

  29. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by 0123456 · · Score: 1

    NASA invented almost all of the stuff that these guys are now using, but these guys don't have to pay NASA a nickel in royalties.

    Not only did most of the basic research come from people like Goddard and Von Braun, and both Mercury and Gemini use rockets designed by the US military, but most of the NASA hardware was developed by private companies for NASA (does the name 'Rocketdyne' mean anything to you?).

    If NASA had never existed then we'd have skipped over the unaffordable boondoggle era of space travel and right now companies would be competing to be the first to put people in orbit and land them on the moon.

  30. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Well vertical launch and landing was done on the moon in the 1960's. Soyuz is a variant of that idea. One could argue that the more conservative Carmack design benefits from experience elsewhere.

    The pneumatic variable geometry on Rutan's vehicle is pretty much untested. Sure, it has survived a few flights, but what happens if it fails during a launch. Will the vehicle break up on reentry?

    And then if you want to go into orbit the Rutan design is pretty much a dead end. The vertical launch rocket plus capsule scales better and will get you further in the long run.

  31. Re:price, time, early adopter risk, and risk of de by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing that would bug me is that, by waiting ten years, you can go twice as high, for twice as long, for half the money. ... But only if enough people ignore my advice to wait.

    Catch-22.

  32. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1, Interesting

    M ... It's the other way around buddy. Carmack both personally and through his companies has been paying for NASA's research for a long long time.

    If you are paying for it with your taxes, you have (or at least you should have) the right to do whatever you want with anything your employees at NASA discover with your money without paying any royalties.

    --
    WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
  33. Think it's expensive now? by DesScorp · · Score: 1

    Just wait 'till someone gets hurt. Inevitably, there's going to be an accident. And then the lawyers and bureaucrats get involved.

    I think the notion of "space tourism for everyone" is going to go the way of jetpacks and flying cars, a nice dream that just never comes to real fruition.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:Think it's expensive now? by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      And yet people (>40000) die each year in car accidents, and more die in airplane accidents, and boating accidents, etc. And those are still viable activities. Yes, this will be regulated (already is, actually), and people will die, and it will keep going on anyway.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    2. Re:Think it's expensive now? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Do you know what the key difference is between jet packs, flying cars, and rockets? The first two duplicate existing transportation, but in an unsafe and hard to manage manner. Rockets may continue to be unsafe, but there's no other way to orbit. Further, traffic control for space is fairly well-established. It's unlikely that you'll have a bunch of idiots joyriding in a orbital vehicle while the same cannot be said for the other two means of transportation.

  34. 1/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Half the price of Virgin Galactic, but almost half the distance too.

  35. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it makes you wonder about nasa prices for each missions... and also wonder why this has not happened before

    Well, given Carmack's proposal isn't even in the same league as the average shuttle launch, I suspect the cost differential is pretty understandable. After all, last I checked, NASA didn't bother with piddly little missions to send people just barely past the boundary of space (which is 62 mi/100 km) and then immediately bring them right back again. The delta between that and a real orbital mission is massive.

    No, this is but a very tiny step toward real, commercial spaceflight. And the step from this to real commercial space flight is much much larger.

  36. The picture by harris+s+newman · · Score: 1

    The picture in the article shows a rocket with NO WINDOWS. Whats the point?

    1. Re:The picture by BiggerBoat · · Score: 1

      The picture in that article is 4 years old (I don't know why Gizmodo chose that one) and not representative of a design intended for suborbital tourism. The final design hasn't been determined yet, as a lot of it will be dictated by the ongoing test program.

  37. Re:It'll never get that low. by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you think those industries are unregulated, then I would like to see what you consider to be regulated. I mean, once you have governmental control over the money supply, how much a bank can and cannot loan, etc., it becomes pretty hard to call it unregulated. Poorly regulated, perhaps, but not at all left to its own devices.

    --
    SSC
  38. Nickled and Dimed by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Whaddya mean oxygen is another 20 mil?"

  39. Oh John, surely you jest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi John. Fsck your space missions. I've seen how they end and start. If you start offering tours to Mars I imagine I'll be shuffling around dimly light rooms while souls effervesce into hatred. I don't need some fat blob hitting me.

    Either that or I'll end up in some world where I end up riding a conveyor belt while I groggily watch my limbs be sawed off and replaced with bio-mechanical parts enabling me to run faster.

    I'm just saying, if I want to take a ride and I *EVEN* think I hear someone whisper "Over here" or "Use us" I'm going to 'splode.

    Hey, John, call the space company UAC and make everyone carry a PDA and when you read it you lose all peripheral vision.

    IDKFA and SPISPOPD.... and such...

    -eg

  40. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    The space shuttle flies ~300 miles higher than this ship. Not really in the same league.

    --
    Qxe4
  41. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    Yep, NASA just put out the contracts for Apollo, Boeing, Grumman, Martin, Rocketdyne and thousands of others invented the technologies.

  42. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by tsotha · · Score: 1

    Spaceshipone was very nearly a catastrophic failure. I'd rather go with Armadillo, which has a much more elegant design.

  43. Re:It'll never get that low. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Luckily, the government provides asylums.

  44. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    which, to come full circle, they likely would not have done without the assurance that they would not lose money trying to. Thus NASA still is the source for all this neat stuff. And while it was made by an NGO, it was made under contract to a GO, thus is PD.
    -nB

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  45. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by networkBoy · · Score: 1

    No, this is but a very tiny step toward real, commercial spaceflight. And the step from this to real commercial space flight is much much larger.

    I think you are not giving them enough credit. While this may be a small step for a space flight, it is a giant leap for non governmental funded commercial space flight. (thanks Neil)

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  46. Re:It'll never get that low. by Dishevel · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Neither are those that trust the government.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  47. Re:It'll never get that low. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's impressive someone as ignorant as you managed to turn on a computer, let alone post on Slashdot.

    It is inconceivable (I think that word means what you think it means) that someone could honestly say the financial industry was "deregulated". Really the same applies to oil.

  48. Re:It'll never get that low. by Miseph · · Score: 1

    Don't be silly, of course they're popular, they always are. They just aren't realistic, and when they get their way the results are anything but popular.

    It's rather like communism, in a way, although neither group is ever happy to hear that comparison.

    --
    Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  49. Re:It'll never get that low. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

    It was less regulated than it was before, which if certain things were still regulated and controlled, it would have never happened.
    I believe this was the point made, although not as eloquent as your message.

  50. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

    I think you are not giving them enough credit. While this may be a small step for a space flight, it is a giant leap for non governmental funded commercial space flight. (thanks Neil)

    Did I say otherwise? No, I didn't.

    The OP asked, why is NASA so much more expensive? I answered, because what NASA does is far *far* harder. Does that belittle what Carmack, et al, are trying to do here? No. It simply gives NASA the credit that is their due.

  51. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

    Hah, actually, looking back at it, yes, I did.

    So I take that bit back. It's still a piddly step toward orbit, yes. But you're right, for commercial space flight, it's an impressive feat. It's just important to put this in perspective: getting up to 100 km is impressive, but the step from that to orbit is far bigger than the step from 0 to 100km in the first place.

  52. Sounds like a John Romero game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we sure the wrong last name isn't being used here?

  53. Re:price, time, early adopter risk, and risk of de by camperdave · · Score: 1

    It's $100,000 for 5 minutes of entertainment.

    It's a five minute flight. However there will be loads of time before and after that are also included in the price. It's not like you show up at the launch site, step aboard the rocket and off you go. There will be training beforehand. Escape procedures, safety protocols, etc. Upon landing there will be champagne and after-parties.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  54. Re:price, time, early adopter risk, and risk of de by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 1

    Actually, the risk is probably going to be significantly lower (after some appropriate flight testing of course). This isn't because of any free market magic pixie dust or anything like that, and is not to disparage NASA or the shuttle -- its a matter of complexity and the levels of energy required.

    The amount of energy required to send a person into orbit is an order of magnitude higher than whats being considered here. Combined with simpler systems (fewer points of failure) this means that failures are less likely, and those failures are less likely to be catastrophic.

    All else being equal, you're far more likely to be blown to kingdom come by an artillery shell than a .22 bullet.

  55. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by ppanon · · Score: 1

    True enough. But Spaceship One was also a prototype/proof of concept. You really shouldn't be surprised to lose, or nearly lose, one of them every now and then. Now when you lose something that's been billed as a reliable "space truck", there's some reason for consternation.

    --
    Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  56. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The FY2011 budget doesn't intend for Armadillo or Virgin or any suborbital company to take the lead in HSF development. For the most part that money is going to be going to the same people it was before: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, SpaceX, Orbital Sciences and all of their various subcontractors. The big difference is in that NASA will be moving towards a system where they pay a fixed price for a service rather than using nebulous cost-plus contracts with variable accountability to build them to ever-changing requirements.

    Also, Carmack knows what he's talking about when it comes to these machines -- he's hands on in the design and can spout of critical parameters like Q-star like nobodies business. While they may not be visibly as far as Virgin in manned flights, that doesn't mean they don't have a decent chance to catch up. Suborbital is "easier," so the various players can be a lot more nimble and turn-around can go a lot quicker.

    Finally, over-hyping the shuttle is as big a blunder as over-hyping anything else. I can't help but feel that if we keep flying it, we'll be killing another 7 astronauts before too long. The shuttle was set to be retired 5 years ago -- unfortunately Griffin pushed for a retro-style Apollo clone that was too expensive for the budget thats politically sustainable for NASA, and thats why we're in this mess. Moving to a system that removes some of the inherent instability of politics seems like a good bet to me.

  57. Re:price, time, early adopter risk, and risk of de by SEE · · Score: 1

    The risk would probably be considerably higher than the risk associated with a space shuttle launch and reentry

    Actually, it would probably be significantly lower. First, you'll be doing it with a design that uses modern materials technology, not 30-odd-year-old materials technology. Second, you'll be doing it on a vehicle designed solely for launching and returning humans on short flights, not one that had to also be designed for launching cargo and for supporting humans in space for a week. Third, you'll be going up a lot less distance, coming down a lot less distance, and doing both for a lot less time at significantly slower speeds.

    So, the spacecraft will be made of better materials than the Shuttle, it will be much simpler and thus have less to go wrong than the Shuttle, and it will be placed under significantly less stress than the Shuttle. All of that means it starts out significantly safer than the Shuttle; they'd have to do some really bad engineering to manage to push the danger up to Shuttle levels.

  58. Re:It'll never get that low. by mweather · · Score: 1

    Neither are those that trust businesses to regulate themselves.

  59. Re:It'll never get that low. by BitZtream · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Those two seem to be one and the same at the moment, hence the lack of trust in both.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  60. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    Its also important to note that most of our daily lives now is provided by products that came wholly or in part by NASAs work.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  61. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    it makes you wonder about nasa prices for each missions...

    Why would it? The comparison isn't even apples and oranges. These companies are kids on bicycles riding up and down the driveway, while NASA is driving a semi across the country.
     

    and also wonder why this has not happened before

    Because there hasn't been sufficient people with sufficient disposable income until recently.

  62. Ugh. by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    I don't think I want to go on a Martian vacation if John Carmack is planning it.

  63. Must be nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... to be a fucking genius.

  64. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Shihar · · Score: 1

    There is a pretty damn good reason to not give NASA royalties... we paid for the damn stuff, and we paid top dollar. For every tax payer dollar that went into discovering something awesome, another thousand was blown on congressperson XX's part for the shuttle-by-politician-and-committee or whatever bloat NASA was working on. Frankly, I like NASA much more these days. They are scaling back on that ISS nonsense, getting out of the man mission nonsense, and doing what NASA should be doing, research the private sector isn't interested in. Rovers on mars, probes to asteroids, looking at far away galaxies is all good quality NASA stuff. Hell, even manned missions made sense back in the day. Now though, it is better off to just spin that off. NASA clearly doesn't have a clue how to make it cheap enough for the rest of us to care that we can do it. Throw some money at the private sector and let them try while NASA does the stuff the private sector wont. As a bonus, making obscure parts for a Jupiter probe is much harder for congressjackass to politicize.

  65. AWESOME by circuitworx · · Score: 1

    The entire time I was reading this article I was hearing, "QUAD DAMAGE" to Virgin.

  66. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by FleaPlus · · Score: 1

    NASA don't fly these missions at all unless you count unmanned sounding rockets.

    And curiously enough, those unmanned suborbital rockets generally cost $1 million or so per launch. Reusable suborbital rockets like Armadillo's, which charge only a small fraction of the typical price and can launch pretty much as often as a scientist wants, are totally going to change the way suborbital, microgravity, and atmospheric sampling science is done.

  67. Re:Hah, I'm a self-circumcised anti-jew. 3hours hu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  68. Neither inspires much confidence by istartedi · · Score: 1

    Neither one inspires much confidence, especially if you have to convert

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  69. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    At 200KUSD per seat a flight on SS2 is worth about 1 million. Armadillo's vehicle may be half the price but its still in the same ballpark. The you have integration costs for instrumentation and customising the trajectory.

    I don't see huge cost savings yet.

  70. 62 miles above Earth is not exactly space tourism. by master_p · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's an insult to those of us that have grown on Science Fiction and on a dream of visiting other star systems.

    Really, space is huge. It's so huge, that going 62 miles above the surface is nothing. It's so insignificant, that perhaps we should stop calling related activities space-something.

    It can be called space tourism when we can at least visit the Moon.

  71. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by networkBoy · · Score: 1

    No doubt there is still *lots* to do before we see purely commercial launches of GTO or even LEO orbit. And absolutely they are riding on the backs of NASA et.al. I still think it's awesome, and I also think my kids will have ~$100K less in their inheritance by the time I kick the bucket...

    Or seeing as I love JPMorganChase so much, maybe I'll finance several flights through them just before I kick the bucket and give my kids the cash up front for their inheritance. :)
    -nB

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  72. Re:62 miles above Earth is not exactly space touri by Adustust · · Score: 1

    I really disagree with the flamebait mod, and unfortunately I don't have any mod points to correct this. Space to some of us doesn't mean "really high in the sky." While I may not agree that space tourism is only considered when venturing as far as the moon, I feel that an orbit around the earth or a stay on the/a space station would be something a bit more worthy of a space tourism title.

  73. Re:It'll never get that low. by khallow · · Score: 1

    It was less regulated than it was before, which if certain things were still regulated and controlled, it would have never happened. I believe this was the point made, although not as eloquent as your message.

    Looks to me like those things were still "regulated and controlled", just not in a way that wouldn't lead to harm. If a pilot of an airplane does something stupid and flies a plane into the ground, one doesn't claim that the problem is that the pilot didn't have enough control over the vehicle. If a government does the equivalent, such as with the recent financial crisis, then why should we advocate more control? It's operator error not "deregulation".

  74. Re:62 miles above Earth is not exactly space touri by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's an insult to those of us that have grown on Science Fiction and on a dream of visiting other star systems.

    To those of us who have grown up on Science and Engineering, your words are a gross insult. It's too bad that actual space travel isn't sexy enough for the Star Trek crowd (or whatever fantasy you prefer to reality), but we shouldn't diminish genuine accomplishments (well, *cough* when those accomplishments happen).

  75. Re:62 miles above Earth is not exactly space touri by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we can call it space tourism after you've traveled to Uranus to pull your head out of it.

  76. XCOR also in $100k range by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    XCOR (based in Mojave as well as Scaled and Masten) is building a suborbital craft as well and set a $95K price point in 2008. They also have human flight experience, whereas Armadillo has none. Regardless, multiple offerings are in the ~$100K range but I'm sure Virgin will have a superior customer experience - that's what they've build their reputation on across the globe. Will be interesting to see who is flying first. SpaceShipTwo's lucky to be flying by the end of 2011 with the current status of their propulsion system.

    QuantumG, the marginal cost of each flight is well above $2K. Insurance plays a huge factor, but fuel and expendables is above $2K as well.

  77. Is that right? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    That seems a bit misleading.

    If I have a big box containing 999 1.4MB floppy disks and a single 700MB CD, the average capacity among them is about 2.1MB. That doesn't mean that most of my removable media can store a 2MB file.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Is that right? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      You are right that it could be misleading to look only at the average, however, the median household net-worth is still more than $100k.

      So you could phrase it either way: The average American household could afford to send someone to space - OR - Most American households could afford to send someone to space.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  78. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

    If NASA had never existed then we'd have skipped over the unaffordable boondoggle era of space travel and right now companies would be competing to be the first to put people in orbit and land them on the moon.

    Wait wait... so suddenly putting people in orbit and on the moon is a profitable venture? Huh.

    Please, explain to me the business model. I'm sure we'd all love to know why "companies would be competing to be the first to put people in orbit and land them on the moon", given that competition presumes some kind of reward for the effort.

  79. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by TwineLogic · · Score: 1

    I fully agree that if we keep flying the Space Shuttle, there will be future launch accidents with fatalities. Part of what I am suggesting is that these future launch accidents would amount to fewer deaths/payload than the private companies will.

    The Space Shuttle is not great technology for 2010, but the major advantage it holds is existential; the Space Shuttle exists and private spaceflight vehicles do not exist.

  80. Re:and they still make a big markup/ profit by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Nobody's saying he can't. He just should thank all of us for funding the research that gives him a way to make a profitable business model out of an inherently unprofitable industry.

  81. Re:Choice: paying double for Scaled Composites, or by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

    With SpaceShip One, they actually flew into some definition of "space" on three occasions. So the Virgin Galactic vehicle program has a few successful flights to its record.

    You don't really think Armadillo is going to be taking paying customers up until they've done the same, do you?

    We are presently making a blunder by retiring the Space Shuttle while we hope that these private suppliers get somewhere quickly.

    The shuttle is being retired in any case. Without private corporations stepping up to the plate it'll be even longer before we have manned launch capability again if we're relying on Constellation.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  82. Fuck gizmodo by kuzb · · Score: 1

    I need to pay closer attention to what I'm clicking on. Gizmodo is a garbage site with trashy editors who don't do research, steal from people and companies, and go out of their way to wreck careers and lives. I don't want to support them, and I'd hope you wouldn't either.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  83. Re:62 miles above Earth is not exactly space touri by master_p · · Score: 1

    To those of us who have grown up on Science and Engineering, your words are a gross insult. It's too bad that actual space travel isn't sexy enough for the Star Trek crowd.

    The desire to go where no man has gone before is way more important than the desire to work within the known constraints of science. The former has pushed back science's limits, the latter has not. The dream to travel to other star systems is what will make humanity work harder in order to reach the stars. Granted, going 62 miles above the Earth surface is an important step, but a very tiny one.

  84. Re:62 miles above Earth is not exactly space touri by khallow · · Score: 1

    The desire to go where no man has gone before is way more important than the desire to work within the known constraints of science.

    Suppose we work with reality rather than "desire"? Don't tell me what you want, tell me how you're going to get what you want.

  85. Re:It'll never get that low. by jhoegl · · Score: 1

    No, the thing that lead to the housing market crash was a direct result of deregulation.

  86. Re:It'll never get that low. by khallow · · Score: 1

    No, the thing that lead to the housing market crash was a direct result of deregulation.

    I already pointed out that statement is wrong. For example, the easy credit of the 2000's (provided by the Fed and other central banks) wasn't due to deregulation. The decision to allow banks to have 50 to 1 leverage on their reserves for real estate investment wasn't deregulation. The SEC had the power to set that reserve level to some other more conservative value. The regulatory power was there, but they chose to use it in a terrible way.

    This matters because it shapes how we attempt to mitigate the next crisis. If it were due to lack of regulation, then more regulation would be a possible solution. But when there's adequate regulation, but inadequate supervision, then adding regulation will fail for the same reason the current regulation did.