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Steve Jobs Says PC Folks' World Is Slipping Away

theodp writes "Provoked by an iPad ad promising a 'revolution,' Valleywag's Ryan Tate fired off a late-night missive to Steve Jobs. Jobs responded, and the two engaged in an after-midnight e-mail debate over lockdown, Cocoa vs. Flash, battery life, and whether 'freedom from porn' is a bug or a feature. 'The times they are a changin',' quipped Jobs, 'and some traditional PC folks feel like their world is slipping away. It is.' Tate was unswayed by the Apple CEO's reality distortion field, but did come away impressed by Jobs' willingness to spar one-on-one over his beliefs — at two in the morning on a weekend."

16 of 1,067 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds to me like Jobs just got trolled hard. 10/10 for Ryan Tate.

    1. Re:Sounds to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

      what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

      What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.

    2. Re:Sounds to me... by node+3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, there is one fantastic quote here from Steve Jobs that he replied to someone who *dared* to criticize him:

      what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

      What a complete asshole who thinks he's so much better than everyone else.

      His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.

      Of course this is Slashdot, the very definition of all talk and no action, so...

    3. Re:Sounds to me... by westlake · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It was a low blow ... he seems to forget that he got his good stuff from Xerox, and then got a real operating system from BSD.

      Recognizing "the good stuff" when you see it is rare. Transforming ideas into marketable products rarer still.

    4. Re:Sounds to me... by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The unique thing that Apple did was actually bring design into the world of computing, it doesn't matter whether the designs were "new" or not (aside from the fact that there is very little new in the world of fashion and art either).

      I think it's good that other companies are being forced to put some effort into UI design and styling to stop Apple pulling ahead. I don't like Apple much these days but they certainly are good for the market.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Sounds to me... by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Okay, so I've decided to feed the troll.

      WTF is it that allows some of the most argumentative assholes on the web just overlook the one simple fact that Apple is really shitty at putting together a UI?

      You could at least provide some examples here btw (beyond a lame joke that has no relevance - a dial is fine for scrolling through a list, but obviously a general purpose laptop needs a more general purpose input system) if you want to distinguish yourself from those you are criticising. Apple's UI accomplishments over the years are obvious, but I guess I'll have to list a few since you are so used to a post-Apple world that you don't realise what they've done.

      They were (one of) the pioneers of graphical interfaces in the 80s, and it took until Windows 95 for Windows to come anywhere near Mac OS (but it was still awful). These days there's less space for refinement in 2D graphical interfaces, but for one thing I loved the OSX dock so much that I installed a dock in Linux - and MS must have loved it too because they modified the task bar in Win7 to function in a very dock-like fashion. Now think of how shitty MP3 players and phones were before the iPod and iPhone.

      I've never owned an iProduct, but I'd always thought that smartphone interfaces were shit. The fact that Windows Mobile was the best smartphone OS out there for a while really says something about how awful everything was (and it's still not great, but it's better), considering how unresponsive and non-finger-friendly it was (I quickly grew to simply using my fingers to interact with my touchphones even when I had a stylus right in the corner of the phone, though it was very awkward sometimes trying to hit a 2mm "ok" button with the tip of your nail). But now all the other phone makers are actually starting to get that response time and usability are important (well, they probably always knew this but since there was little competition going on they didn't put any effort into it, all of them content to wallow in mediocrity because they were raking in plenty of cash already), and that if they don't do something then they are going to disappear into obscurity.

      Apple have really driven UI design in several ways over the years. It's not being argumentative to say that, it's argumentative to try and deny it.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    6. Re:Sounds to me... by PastaLover · · Score: 5, Insightful

      His point was that talk is cheap, what's important is what you've managed to do. See the critic's criticism from Ratatouille for elaboration.

      Of course this is Slashdot, the very definition of all talk and no action, so...

      This is from the same school of thought that thinks we can't criticize what went on in Vietnam because we "haven't been there". It's just another form of the ad hominem.

  2. Steve held his own... by pdboddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hehe, I will say that in the last image of the email exchange, Steve Jobs really zinged Tate.

    --
    Julie Moult is an idiot.
  3. Re:haha by OrangeCatholic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.

    Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.

    It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.

  4. The article is just a troller by joeflies · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This guy just wrapped up all the common complaints that Adobe and the non-Apple customers want you to believe what's wrong with iPad, and sends off a profanity laced alcohol induced email exchange to see if he can out wit Steve Jobs.

    I'd say that Steve stayed pretty much on message with what he's been always saying, even without his PR department to filter out his intent. And the blogger just looks like, well, a troll.

  5. Re:haha by michaelhood · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What Jobs is saying, is that he's finally found a way to reach the masses of computer noobs that Mac has been aiming for all along. The problem with the original Macs is that they required someone to actually use a computer.

    Now that he's turned computers into toys, he can finally get "Grandma." But this doesn't really change anything in the computer world.

    It's something to brag about for sure, on a marketing level. On a features level, he succeeds only by not having them. Kind of like how McDonald's succeeds by not having a steak dinner.

    I agree.. and yet you can't even boot, for the first time, a 3G iPad without connecting it to a computer with iTunes. WTH were they thinking with that?

  6. Re:Benefits by cowscows · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nobody would ever spend $100 on a fancy chef's knife when they could spend $40 and get a pocket knife that's not only got a blade to cut things, but also a screwdriver, a bottle opener, a tiny saw, and some tweezers.

    Except that many people are plenty happy to spend their money on something that is designed to do particular tasks well, even if it can't do everything that a similar product can do.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  7. Re:haha by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And an openable hood.

  8. Re:haha by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is that "something different" may not be good.

    Obligatory car analogy: It would be like trading in your 10 year old car for a new one that looks cool and is comfortable, but is completely autopiloted, and only lets you out at certain stops. Businesses have to apply to the car maker so the car would stop at their brick and mortar store. And without warning, this can be taken away, so if someone used to stop at a Target, they wouldn't have that option tomorrow and only get Wal-Marts. Continuing the analogy, someone patches the ECM with a steering wheel to allow manual control, but the next year's cars always come with protection against that.

    People trading their computers in for what are effectively game consoles means that they are trading their freedom to run what they want, when they want for an environment locked down and managed by someone else who can do anything they please.

    My question is: Do we want to go this route of sacrificing openness for ease of use? Yes, viruses and Trojans are a nuisance, but do we want to trade our relatively open computers for what would essentially be terminals, locked to some for-profit corporation's motives and future? For me, it is a no-brainer. I will keep my computer, and my phone will be on an open platform. If Android phones become unrootable or impossible to put custom ROMs on, I'll move to the Nokia N900 and encourage others to follow.

    Do we want all our computers to be like PS3s where at any time, functionality can disappear at a moment's notice like the "other OS", and there would not be a single thing we can do about it? I'm sure the usual antagonists of open computing would love a wholesale move to a locked down platform, but is that where we want to take computing as we know it? Do we want to move to a computing model where what we buy, we are only permitted access to whatever the company allows on a whim? Yes, PS3s have no virus or spyware problems, but we are trading freedom for security here, and in the end, we will end up with neither.

  9. Re:Freedom from porn. by boarder8925 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that O'Brien's reversal of the motto is more appropriate for Apple: SLAVERY IS FREEDOM. By giving up the right to make "grander" or "higher-level" choices, the user gains the perception that his device will be taken care of for him as far as its software is concerned. By voluntarily becoming a slave to Apple's App Store-iPhone OS ecosystem, the user gains peace of mind, and he gets to say he uses an iDevice to boot.

  10. Re:What the fuck is wrong with you people? by lacoronus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only do I have the right to not buy iPads or iAnything, I also have the right to tell others why they should not buy them.

    This whole "if you don't like them, don't buy them, but for God's sake, don't tell anyone about your opinion" is pure BS. After all, if Apple and their supporters take the right to tell me why the iPad is superior to other products (that they presumably haven't bought), I should be able to do the same. I don't buy Microsoft Office, and I also tell people why using native Office formats is bad. I won't buy an iPad, and I'll tell people why.