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Fragmentation vs. Obsolescence In the Android Ecosphere

whisper_jeff writes "Engadget has an interesting article up discussing whether or not Android is fragmenting. While the article discusses the concept that it may be more about handsets becoming obsolete at a dramatic pace rather than the OS fragmenting, it also begins by noting that there are currently five different versions of Android on the market, which implies there is a notable degree of fragmentation. Regardless of it being fragmentation or handsets becoming obsolete to new feature sets in a terribly short period of time, I believe this development cycle could turn casual consumers away and hurt Android's chances for long-term mainstream success."

315 comments

  1. Scared iPhone developer by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As an iPhone developer who would love to make the jump to include android I am very scared about the large mishmash of versions and hardware. Talk about a testing nightmare. Simulator testing is great but as we all know nothing beats the real thing. I don't feel like buying enough handsets to cover my desk.
    I wouldn't be able to keep all the chargers straight anyway.

    1. Re:Scared iPhone developer by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      I don't feel like buying enough handsets to cover my desk.

      I wouldn't be able to keep all the chargers straight anyway.

      Just get a used vending machine, put each phone into a 'slot', attach the charger cord with a loose zip-tie and you're all set. Heck, if you set them each to cost $1 you'll save up enough for the next handset in no time ;-)

    2. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Superken7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, you can build with a modern SDK while having a minSDK attribute set to 3 (android 1.5) so your app will be compatible with android >=1.5 (99.9% android phones are 1.5 or newer), and on 1.5 you can have access to so many things, it will be difficult to really have a need of doing something which is not possible.
      Live wallpapers and maybe some advanced graphic functions will not be available, and the hardware of those "legacy" devices won't be able to handle that, anyways.

      So there are only a few things left which are not possible, like account manager integration, the cool Log.wtf() function and a few more, but nothing extremely important, I'd say...

    3. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's hardware heterogeneity issues also, though: some phones have multitouch and some don't, for example, and the processor speeds and screen sizes are different. Even for devices with the same sensors, the sensors can behave differently, e.g. what kind of control over the camera you have and what data it feeds you, and what the accelerometer's characteristics are.

      Doesn't matter for a decent number of apps, but matters for, say, mobile games.

    4. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Cyblob · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can specify the hardware and software requirements of your app in the manifest file and it will not show up in the market for devices which do not meet the requirements.

      You can be incredibly specific. If you app requires an auto-focus camera then you can specify that and it will only show up for phones which have one.

    5. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Windwraith · · Score: 1

      "as an iPhone developer"
      You know, there are so many of you, it's not like anything out of the ordinary.
      Everyone and their grandma develops for iPhone now.
      In fact my grandma just submitted her third or fourth app with pictures of kittens.

    6. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As an iPhone developer, I think what I'd like most is for one or two models of phones to individually have huge sales so that I can focus only on them. One concern is that I haven't ever dealt with cell phone companies like Motorola and, from my experience as a customer, I have very little faith in them to keep the hardware updated or to release consistent lines of products over the years. What that leaves me with is either finding out my skepticism is wrong, or for Google's own phone(s) to become very successful. Either option seems unlikely, though I certainly hope Google has success; I can see the writing on the wall -- that Apple will soon make iPhone development so bad (along with the capricious App Store approval process are their questionable API changes that also rather conveniently impede cross-platform development) that I'll want out -- but the ease of a unified hardware+software platform will keep me sticking around.

    7. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mjwx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As an iPhone developer who would love to make the jump to include android I am very scared about the large mishmash of versions and hardware.

      Dont be.

      Fragmentation is mainly FUD. Android applications operate via the Dalvik virtual machine meaning the vast majority of applications will happily run on almost all hardware. Only when you start writing applications that require access to a version specific API does this become a problem, most of Android's API's are version agnostic. The simpler your application the fewer issues you will have with it, the so called "issue" of fragmentation is only true for the most complex of applications, if you are writing a simple XML parser then you wont have a problem.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Scared iPhone developer by sortius_nod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The simpler your application the fewer issues you will have with it, the so called "issue" of fragmentation is only true for the most complex of applications, if you are writing a simple XML parser then you wont have a problem.

      I think this is the whole point of the fear. When you invest in creating a complex app you want to know it's going to work for everyone. There's an inherently higher risk involved with developing for a platform with such varied hardware & software.

      Saying that the fragmentation isn't an issue is glossing over the problem. Kind of like saying there's not fragmentation in desktop computers because you can run flash apps the same across different operating systems. Not every app developed is a fart soundboard.

    9. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      I haven't done much Android development, but it's not as bad as it sounds. I started learning from a Android 2.1 book; all the sample code ran on a locked-down consumer 1.5 handset, 1.5 being the oldest version in common use. The one exception I found was a flag that told you if you were entering or leaving a given physical area didn't seem to be present on my 1.5 headset, but querying it didn't break anything.

      Android versions are like .NET versions; you can change the one you want to target, and your code will be future compatible. If you require a specific OS feature (Oooh, they added a new photo gallery control in 1.6 that I must have!), you mark it in your application manifest along with any other requirements.

      Constructing a layout is obnoxious, though. You lay out controls kind of like building a webpage, using an XML syntax to define the controls you have and how they "flow" on a screen. For most cases, different screen sizes and orientations won't matter.

      I can't speak to how much real-world testing is necessary, as I've only developed on two phones. However, the emulator that comes with the SDK is really quite good, if very, very slow. You can pick arbitrary screen sizes and layouts, the presence/absence of any feature you can think of (SD card, GPS, clicky-ball thingy, OS version, screen size) and see how your app looks. You can even test GPS applications by feeding the emulator specific coordinates or path to follow.

      Debugging is easy - connect your phone via USB and press the compile or debug button in Eclipse. It'll show up as a target device, along with any emulator images. You'll be able to do all the normal debugger stuff as your app runs/doesn't run/hits breakpoints/crashes on the device.

      If you're considering trying it, download the vanilla version of Eclipse if you don't have it, get the Android SDK, and try "hello world" on the emulator. It's pretty nifty.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    10. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mweather · · Score: 1

      As an iPhone developer who would love to make the jump to include android I am very scared about the large mishmash of versions and hardware.

      If that scares you, PCs must be your worst nightmare. Android is a monoculture by comparison.

    11. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Cloudwalking · · Score: 1

      I stated this same concert at the Android Fireside Chat during Google I/O. The Android team responded that really only two devices are needed for testing, a high DPI (Nexus, Evo, etc) and a medium DPI (G1). Beyond that, everything that runs on one should run nearly the same on the others. Speed is a different thing, but all the new Android phones are pretty damn snappy. Especially with Froyo.

    12. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ducomputergeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      And then one person with Android A can download it and tells their friend with Android B about it. Android B user goes to the market place and can't find or download that app and gets pissed off. It happens more than you'd think with a friend of mine. He has an HTC, his wife a motorola with the keyboard so she can send 500 texts a day. They've come across several apps that will work on his phone, but she can't even find it in the market place.

      As a developer, we're charging 4 - 5x's the price for an android app vs. an iPhone App. Reason being that Android is more expensive to develop for due to the number of phones on the market all with different OS & hardware specs. Since august of last year, we've spent over $6k now on Android and sets. To give you an idea, we spent $2500 from 2008 - present for iPhones and iPod touches.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    13. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      I really suspect that Google's frantic pace on Android -- what the article says in increasing the rate of obsolescence (Yeah, I RTFA: bad slashdotter!) -- will push phone makers to deploy more generic Android images, meaning the carriers can update faster. Let's be honest: the carriers probably want that new version out more than the phone manufacturer, who is already developing new phones to sell.

      I see it as the same kind of pressure that FOSS puts on OEMs to contribute patches back. Who wants to try to keep your own patch set?

    14. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Hey troll. I see you're still on here telling your lies about how you can't write your fart apps without tacking on 4 times the iphone price. You are so full of shit it hurts.

    15. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You can be incredibly specific."
      Exactly, meaning, you've just cut your audience to a fraction of the Market. Or, rather, a fragment of the Market.

    16. Re:Scared iPhone developer by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      maybe you should try looking. the shit is quite well documented and not at all as complex as your spin is implying.

    17. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Android is Java based. Write once, run anywhere. You compile to a virtual machine.
      2. You can test in the emulator that comes with the SDK. Imagine, testing a compile for a virtual machine on a virtual machine?
      3. Android software runs on a virtual machine on the phone. It's built for this.

    18. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 0

      You wasted $6k or you are lying. Android is built on a virtual machine. If it tests, it runs. There is no naked hardware, so it makes little sense to buy a bunch of phones.

      --
      -- $G
    19. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really suspect that Google's frantic pace on Android -- what the article says in increasing the rate of obsolescence (Yeah, I RTFA: bad slashdotter!) -- will push phone makers to deploy more generic Android images, meaning the carriers can update faster.

      I suspect the opposite. Both manufacturers and carriers have already made noises about wanting a slice of the application pie by locking handsets to their own appstores. If this comes to pass it'll kill Android, but these are companies that put greed above anything else.

    20. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fragmentation is a non issue. Don't target the latest version, and life is good. Target the latest version and your market shrinks. It's not that hard. Oh, and anyone who says you have to buy a bunch of phones doesn't know how Java works.

      --
      -- $G
    21. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. I wonder how all the other App developers do it. I'm sure it's all very confusing. Especially if you find micro-USB hard to grasp.

    22. Re:Scared iPhone developer by pengwin_pdp · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey troll.

      It's refreshing to see someone announce their intentions up front...

    23. Re:Scared iPhone developer by DerekLyons · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Fragmentation is mainly FUD. Android applications operate via the Dalvik virtual machine meaning the vast majority of applications will happily run on almost all hardware. Only when you start writing applications that require access to a version specific API does this become a problem, most of Android's API's are version agnostic.

      "Mostly FUD", "the vast majority", "most API's"... In other words, there is truth to the claims of problems caused by fragmentation.
       

      The simpler your application the fewer issues you will have with it, the so called "issue" of fragmentation is only true for the most complex of applications, if you are writing a simple XML parser then you wont have a problem.

      Which, like your statements quoted above, neatly dodges the issue - there are problems caused by fragmentation, and you are trying to double speak them away.

    24. Re:Scared iPhone developer by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He has an HTC, his wife a motorola with the keyboard so she can send 500 texts a day. They've come across several apps that will work on his phone, but she can't even find it in the market place.

      She should try again. From the sound of your post, it sounds like you're located in the US, and she has the Motorola Droid. That means her phone was upgraded to 2.1 a couple of weeks ago, and will probably get the 2.2 very soon.

      And anyway, there isn't really a big difference between 1.6 and 2.2. 1.5, yes. And anything below 1.5, no one is using anyway. And unlike the iPhone, which is changing its complete underlying architecture as we speak, the Android SDKs on the other hand are stabilizing, for instance Froyo is even being delivered six months ahead of schedule, and there are less and less changes that developers are clamoring for.

      And when I can't find an app that someone recommended to me, that's usually because many apps that were free a few weeks/months ago have transitioned to fully paid apps (and the developer has removed the free/lite version off the market as a way to get more sales, since he already has the word of mouth going for him, and the people that miss the free app can't leave new comments anymore -- unless they pay for the app at least once).

      As a developer, we're charging 4 - 5x's the price for an android app vs. an iPhone App.

      Hey, charge whatever the market can bear, that's what I say. Currently, there seems to be a big shortage of Android Developers on most job sites. So please, charge away. It's a good way to weed out the overflow of clients. And right now at least, taking on clients that want to commission an Android App is much more lucrative than making your own app (later on, that will probably be the reverse situation, but I'm only speaking of right now).

      Since august of last year, we've spent over $6k now on Android and sets. To give you an idea, we spent $2500 from 2008 - present for iPhones and iPod touches.

      This misses the point that you can only develop for the iPhone/iPad only if you're on a Mac (for the most part). And that's fine if you already have all the Mac equipment you need, but for many of us still, we still have Windows machines or Linux machines, so the barrier to entry is much lower on Android (not to mention the registration fee to be able to develop on the Market as opposed to the App Store).

      Also your entire testing strategy should be based on the type of Mobile Application you're making. For some applications, testing for every variation makes complete sense, for instance, if your application depends on the camera, it makes sense, for others, it simply doesn't. Besides, developers are organizing to share testing devices among themselves. Some companies are crowdsourcing testing and QA. And if you're near a Google office, and go to some of their events, you can usually check out devices from them free of charge. So if I were you, I'd hold off on buying the 39+ Android phones or the 50+ different Android devices that will be available this summer, and depending on the type of Application I was making, I'd give my client an itemized list of prices for the different SDKs that are out there, and let the client decide on the cut off point, on the type of support he wants to have, or not have.

    25. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Mostly FUD", "the vast majority", "most API's"... In other words, there is truth to the claims of problems caused by fragmentation.

      In other words, I have experience with Android including very simple android development and do not believe the scaremongering caused by this so-called fragmentation.

      Which, like your statements quoted above, neatly dodges the issue

      Which, unlike your quotation, is not removed from it's context. How, did you somehow read that I didn't say "fragmentation" isn't a big issue? When the vast majority of developers will never encounter it, fragmentation is not a big issue.

      Android's application framework is based on the Dalvik virtual machine, if your are unfamiliar with how virtual machines work they serve as an intermediary between the hardware (or the HAL) and the application, the virtual machine is written for the hardware, the application only needs to be written for the virtual machine providing an identical framework for applications across divergent hardware platforms and versions. Finally, yes, Dalvik does this quite well.

      So take you scaremongering and out of context quotations elsewhere good sir until you actually learn about the "problems" you are spreading FUD about.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    26. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mweather · · Score: 1

      That's why you aim for a feature set the majority of devices support.

    27. Re:Scared iPhone developer by gig · · Score: 1

      The C API on Android is totally closed anyway, so you can't even port your app. You have to write a baby Java app from scratch like you would for Blackberry. That is even a bigger flaw than fragmentation.

      The best way to support Android is to make an HTML5 Web app version of your app for all the phones and make your native iPhone app an upsell.

    28. Re:Scared iPhone developer by jythie · · Score: 1

      I think this is demonstrating exactly what Apple's policies are trying to prevent from happening. From the perspective of both a consumer and a professional developer, these are serious issues.

    29. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You left out a third possibility: you have a peabrain.

      Ultimately, you will probably be found to be right: they wasted $6K (or more).

    30. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FUD. Dalvik != Sun's JVM. The reason why Google went with Java is because it allows for the underlying platform to be swapped out. Say Apple buys ARM and stops sales of all ARM CPUs to all handset makers. A switch could be done to a completely different architecture without forcing every single app out there to be recompiled/redesigned.

      Yes, there is performance overhead, but a specialized subset of a JVM built from the ground up for embedded devices is not going to suck 50% of a phone's CPU.

    31. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which would be, based on the models around, a single touch display with one usable button, a rear facing camera and an internet connection

      welcome, 2002.

    32. Re:Scared iPhone developer by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      When the vast majority of developers will never encounter it, fragmentation is not a big issue.

      Had I claimed it was a big issue, you'd have a point. Just like in your original post, you dodge and handwave and do everything but address the issue.
       

      In other words, I have experience with Android including very simple android development and do not believe the scaremongering caused by this so-called fragmentation.

      And now, you change your story from "fragmentation isn't an issue (except where it is)" to "I don't believe fragmentation is an issue". So which is it?
       

      So take you scaremongering and out of context quotations elsewhere good sir until you actually learn about the "problems" you are spreading FUD about.

      Had I quoted you out of context, you'd have a point - but I quoted you exactly. Had I scaremongered or spread FUD instead of pointing out the logical conclusions that your statements pointed to, you'd have a point.
       
      But again, we see the handwaving and smokescreens in place of addressing the questions.

    33. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Mathinker · · Score: 1

      > "as an iPhone developer"

      Ah, nostalgia. This reminds me of one of the first Slashdot trolls I encountered when starting to moderate on Slashdot after becoming addicted.

      His main technique was to start his posts with "As one of the first ...", "As someone with a lot of experience ...", etc... In his last post he claimed to be the original founder of India (using this same technique).

    34. Re:Scared iPhone developer by VON-MAN · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
      That's cute. However, as we've seen, the problem with capitalism is, that eventually you'll also run out of other people's money.

    35. Re:Scared iPhone developer by jythie · · Score: 2, Informative

      No cross environment or VM can replace actual testing on actual target hardware. No matter how closely manufacturers claim to follow the specs, quirks always manage to work their way in, and sometimes these quirks cause things to run differently. A serious development house will want to validate their code on all major versions of the hardware, esp if those versions come from different manufacturers.

    36. Re:Scared iPhone developer by BcNexus · · Score: 1, Troll

      You're saying "You can write it once and run on many." But at the same time, you're saying "You can't target the latest platform, write once and run on many." Double talk aside, the problem is even worse than you are hinting at.

      Case in point: a program written targeting a basic API fails to run on a Droid Incredible. A highly rated Lightsaber app I tried didn't work. The motion sensor API is the most basic, isn't it? Is there an Android phone without an accelerometer? And yet the app didn't work.

      Something is rotten. Fragmentation, obsolescence, whatever pundits call it. You can't say it isn't happening though. It's happening, and at breakneck speed. New features come out with minor version releases, programs break, and the end users who depend on stock ROMs are left behind.

      I have to buy handsets for bugfixes and features when they are clearly hardware independent. My HTC Touch Pro 2 came out of the box with different Sprint Navigation software than my Touch Pro original. I couldn't get the same software for my TP original through official channels. Android users are also at the mercy of manufacture's whims to release or not release ROMSs with the latest Android major/minor version: Android might support Google navigation, it may support Flash, but a user's device may not. Handset manufactures stop caring about a phone after they release it (especially after only a year). They neglect to fix all but the worst bugs and never seem to add features,

      You seem to be denying all of this. When it comes do Android, it is not "Write once, run on many." Stale ROMS, manufacturer neglect, feature releases at breakneck speeds, and bugs of nebulous nature blow away your "Write once, run on many" assertion. You have to target a specific phone when you write an Android app.

    37. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But again, we see the handwaving and smokescreens in place of addressing the questions.

      Amazingly you seem to be the only one who sees this.

      You are spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt over the issue which is quite clear cut. I refuse to speak in absolutes because there is no such thing. Further more you fail to disprove my point and you are only spreading FUD, this is obvious for one simple reason

      You have not attacked my point, you have only attacked me.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    38. Re:Scared iPhone developer by batkiwi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyone who says you DON'T have to buy a bunch of phones doesn't know how development works.

      Yes we know it will technically run. But considering screen size/resolution/layout/keyboard (or not)/etc differences you really need to test your app on each representative phone. While not EVERY phone is necessary, you'd need at least 4-5 to cover the combinations.

    39. Re:Scared iPhone developer by yyxx · · Score: 1

      Oh, stop astroturfing and spreading FUD.

      To be clear: if you develop for Android 1.5, it will run on all newer phones. The additions in later versions are functions you generally don't even get on iPhone.

      Furthermore, the hardware is standardized. There are four standard buttons and two screen sizes. You know, like the iPhone also has two standard screen sizes and one button.

    40. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's hardware heterogeneity issues also, though: some phones have multitouch and some don't, for example, and the processor speeds and screen sizes are different. Even for devices with the same sensors, the sensors can behave differently, e.g. what kind of control over the camera you have and what data it feeds you, and what the accelerometer's characteristics are.

      Doesn't matter for a decent number of apps, but matters for, say, mobile games.

      This is mistaken, actually. They all have hardware multitouch, some don't have software multitouch enabled for legal reasons. But as people upgrade to newer versions of the OS, the multitouch magically appears! Also, as the virtual machine has got considerably faster, my original G1 is now much more performant than it was when new, and thanks to the nice folk at Cyanogen it already runs Eclair and will soon run FroYo. Yes, there probably are differences in the actual physical characteristics of things like accelerometers, but the operating system abstracts this out for you so your program can simply ignore it.

      If you write your app for the version of the O/S you want to target, and specify anything unusual in the manifest, it will run on the handsets; and that's all.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    41. Re:Scared iPhone developer by yyxx · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Maybe you should simply get some programming skills so that your software works well on all Android devices. You know, like 99% of all Android apps and developers already do.

    42. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No cross environment or VM can replace actual testing on actual target hardware. No matter how closely manufacturers claim to follow the specs, quirks always manage to work their way in, and sometimes these quirks cause things to run differently. A serious development house will want to validate their code on all major versions of the hardware, esp if those versions come from different manufacturers.

      That's why everyone who programs for Microsoft Windows has to have a test example of every single make and model of PC that's ever been manufactured to test their programs on.

      Oh, wait...

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    43. Re:Scared iPhone developer by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      So all the apps with "Doesn't work on $AndroidPhone" in the comments or even in the description are just what, figments of everyone else's imagination?

    44. Re:Scared iPhone developer by aka1nas · · Score: 1

      Why would it matter if person B cannot see the app and/or gets pissed off? They can't use the app anyway as they don't meet the requirements.

    45. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fragmentation isn't what should scare you, it's the comparative willingness of the users to spend money. iPhone users are just more accustomed to paying for things and more willing to drop a few bucks on an app without really thinking about it. Android users are more discriminating and less willing to pay for an app and, worse yet, have the option to return the app after trying it out.

      At Google's I/O conference, there was a VC forum and, at one point, they were asked whether they'd be more willing to fund a startup developing for Android or iPhone and the answer was a laugh and, "iPhone, no question." There's just more money to be made from iPhone users for the foreseeable future.

    46. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What fucking moron modded parent "Informative"?

    47. Re:Scared iPhone developer by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      Screen sizes are not a problem because on the android it's best practice to do drawing by percentage, not exact pixels.

    48. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ppanon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you seriously think all PC developers buy 15", 17", 19", 21" and 24" monitors just to test their apps at different resolutions? Or every single graphics card made in the last 10 years by nVidia, ATI, and Intel? Maybe a few specialty app developers like Adobe and AutoCAD buy a representative set, but for most apps it just doesn't make enough difference to matter. If a device is sufficiently different from the norm in the market that a whole bunch of apps break on it, that device will be the one with the bad reputation, not all the apps that fail to run on it. Yes, it may be a bit of a support headache until that device's flaws become apparent to everyone, so take account of that in your cost model and charge accordingly. At least that's within your control, as opposed to iPhone App Market approval.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    49. Re:Scared iPhone developer by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      How can you spend $6K usd on android sets? At around $500 a phone that's 12 phones. I don't think there are even 12 different types of android phones on the market?

    50. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course not. But it's not uncommon to find bugs that only appear on certain configurations. Most people test on Win7 64 and 32 bit, Vista 64 and 32 bit and XP to have a good chance of finding bugs before shipping.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    51. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      By that reckoning, applications for macos should be much cheaper than applications for windows or linux (which have a wider variety of versions and run on all kinds of different hardware with a whole mishmash of drivers)...

      Windows developers don't test on every possible configuration, neither do windows mobile developers... And it's quite possible to install software which doesn't work for various reasons to do with your software versions or installed hardware (even things far more arbitrary than your hardware not being powerfull enough, for example some game drm even refuses to let you run the game if you have a scsi cdrom attached)... At least android hides unusable applications from the market, i imagine user satisfaction would be decreased if people could download apps which were useless to them.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    52. Re:Scared iPhone developer by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      It then invalidates the entire "Android Platform" as a single, unified ecosystem. When each user has to think of their own flavor of Android phone as a unique model and platform, one which contains its own set of apps and features, then to the consumer (and to the market in general) they are not the same phone. Ergo, fragmentation.

      I know that the Android designer tried to play this off by comparing it to Apple, but there is really no comparison. Older versions of the iPhone may still be in circulation, and yes, they will not support the latest forthcoming multi-tasking features of the iPhone OS 4.0, but these are mature devices that were purchased three years ago by people who would very likely understand that a newer model may be shinier. In the case of Android phones, we're talking about platform changes that occur weekly (according to the article), or at least very close to each other. Plus, Apple stops selling one model when a newer comes out; while some manufacturers still sell devices with very old versions of Android which are not upgradable.

      Not only that, but most, if not all, apps in the Apple App Store will run in all flavors of the iPhone, and they all look exactly the same and have the same physical characteristics. It is plain to anybody that an iPhone 1.0 is still just as much iPhone as a 3GS. In the case of a Droid vs. a Nexus One vs. whatever other Android device exist, this is much less clear. The devices not only look different, but are fundamentally different--at least to the general observer: some are touch-aware, others are not; some support multi-touch, some do not; some have cameras, others have physical keyboards, etc.

      Ultimately, what everyone took for granted as being Android's very advantage in the market and its biggest strength, may turn out to be its most obvious flaw: that it is freely available to any device manufacturer, that it is open and customizable, and that it provides access to different sets of hardware and features.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    53. Re:Scared iPhone developer by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously think all PC developers buy 15", 17", 19", 21" and 24" monitors just to test their apps at different resolutions? Or every single graphics card made in the last 10 years by nVidia, ATI, and Intel?

      Of course they do, I mean those who can afford a QA process. If you don't, well, you can discover all the issues on your live user base, provided that they report back on the channels you have provided them, and not simply dump your application.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    54. Re:Scared iPhone developer by iapetus · · Score: 2, Informative

      So you're a commercial Android developer, then?

      Didn't think so.

      There are all manner of bugs that can show up in an application that are dependent on the exact configuration of the Android device you're working on. Test an app on the stock Android emulator and it just works across the board, right? Wrong. An obscure quirk of the way the input method works for the custom keyboard on Samsung devices makes it crash in an embarassing way. The UI's thrown out of kilter by a different size status bar. All sorts of things can happen that you won't track down unless you test on those devices.

      Sure, if you're just throwing out simple apps on the marketplace that's not too bad, but if you're delivering something that has very specific requirements to run across a certain range of device, you've got to test on those devices. It's the same old story that it's *always* been with Java - Write Once, Test Everywhere.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    55. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Such issues occur *everywhere* tho, a totally locked down platform such as apple's has other serious disadvantages...
      Windows has the same problem - thousands of possible hardware configurations, several different software versions - not just different generations, but multiple versions of the same generation...
      Various consumer oriented devices also have differences, my car differs from the model sold the previous year and there are plenty of those (and even older models) still on the roads.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    56. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Builder · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's completely different. On a computer, it's acceptable to have an application running in windowed mode and not taking up the whole of the screen. That is incredibly uncommon on a mobile platform - all apps are expected to use the whole of the screen. This very simple fact alone alters development considerably.

    57. Re:Scared iPhone developer by N1AK · · Score: 1

      You're working under the assumption that saving failed businesses doesn't pretty preclude the American, UK or most other western economies from actually being capitalist. I don't mean they're socialists either, just that most countries exist somewhere in the shades fo grey not at the ends of the spectrum.

    58. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and anyone who says you have to buy a bunch of phones doesn't know how Java works.

      Sigh. Ever written a game for J2ME? To understate: Yes, you fucking have to buy a bunch of phones. You'll experience that to get anything work you need to write wildly different workarounds for every single detail imaginable.

      Android is nicer because:

      1. There aren't 100 different implementations of the same API with different bugs and performance issues.
      2. The API is actually pretty capable so there's little need to extend it with proprietary stuff.
      3. The number of phones is still quite small and they are relatively similar (no 50x speed/memory/resolution differences).
      4. You aren't whoring for operators that absolutely require support of ancient phones that no-one buys games for.

      Note how none of those reasons are in any way specific to Java. You can fuckup/unfuckup any native C ecosystem precisely the same way.

    59. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The GP said ALL MAJOR VERSIONS, not every single version.

      As an iPhone developer I have to agree with the GP. Android is not an environment with a standard windowing system, or with standard inputs. On Android you have lots of different resolutions, different input methods, and several major versions of the OS in the wild.

      If you are committed to creating a good app that is well designed and has a good user experience, you are going to need to buy several handsets.

      And as a hobbyist programmer this actually makes developing on Android prohibitive. Even if I have to buy a Mac for iPhone dev. I can get the lowest end Mini. Still far cheaper in the long run than trying to keep up with the handset makers.

    60. Re:Scared iPhone developer by batkiwi · · Score: 1

      Yes, most developers do this, but especially game developers. Have you never worked in professional software development?

      Right now I do in-house development for a government agency, and we test our apps on all 10 of the currently deployed SOE machine/monitor combinations.

      Anyone not doing this is not doing proper QA.

    61. Re:Scared iPhone developer by terjeber · · Score: 1

      You seem to be operating under the assumption that recent events are in any way connected to capitalism. They are not. The lead-up to the crisis was the opposite of capitalism, and the rescue is antithetical to anything that has to do with capitalism.

      The reality is that in capitalism you can not run out of other peoples money since in a capitalist society you do not have access to other peoples money for spending. Not unless they hand them over to you of their own volition, and then the quote from Thatcher isn't relevant, since once other people hand their money to you out of their own volition, it is no longer "their" money.

    62. Re:Scared iPhone developer by HumanEmulator · · Score: 1

      Which, unlike your quotation, is not removed from it's context. How, did you somehow read that I didn't say "fragmentation" isn't a big issue? When the vast majority of developers will never encounter it, fragmentation is not a big issue.

      In the iTunes store, games are the biggest category of apps by far. (By any measure, money, downloads, etc.) The design of games are fundamentally tied to screen size, the controls available (keyboard vs. multitouch) and things like graphics hardware. Plus, on Android many are or will be written using the native SDK because they require higher performance (negating the magic of a VM).

      So yes, fragmentation is a big issue.

    63. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Threni · · Score: 1

      > Talk about a testing nightmare.

      Apple developers aren't used to choice, I guess. I understand that web developers face the same problem, as do Windows developers. Yes, it's easier to develop for one single device with one screen resolution, but unless Apple pull something out of the hat to reverse the current trend for consumers and developers leaving Apple for Android (Android outside iPhone in Q1 in the USA, and are currently selling 100,000+ devices per day), you're not really going to have much choice. Ah, there - that word again!

    64. Re:Scared iPhone developer by terjeber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Had I quoted you out of context, you'd have a point - but I quoted you exactly.

      Interesting comment. You don't even know what it means to quote someone out of context, do you? The fact that you quoted him exactly doesn't mean you didn't quote him out of context. You need to get some more facts straight than what is obviously a lack in knowledge about Android development. Basic language skills would be a good place to start.

    65. Re:Scared iPhone developer by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Just to jump in quickly, what macro-economic model do you subscribe to? Almost every one I've seen that has not basically failed us entirely, predicts that any system with levels of capitalism such as we've had for the last 20 years or so, will collapse upon itself due to wealth condensation. That's exactly what has happened numerous times in numerous places. That's what preceded and most economist believe created the Great Depression. That's what we had going into this depression.

      I don't mean they're socialists either, just that most countries exist somewhere in the shades fo grey not at the ends of the spectrum.

      All functioning economies are shades of grey, ours included, blending capitalism and socialism, but the more extreme an economy becomes in either direction, the less stable it becomes. Our taxation policies certainly took a sharp turn towards extreme capitalism in the 80's and numerous economists have been saying right along what was going to happen. Our banking crisis, for example, was in large part due to banks making loans that they knew would fail and finding ways to gamble that they would... something that would not be a problem if wealth was distributed more and there were an increasing instead of decreasing number of people with a realistic chance of accumulating wealth over their lifetimes.

    66. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They all charge via Micro-USB. All new smartphones except Apple does that now.

    67. Re:Scared iPhone developer by arth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      More testing than that is usually required.

      Say you want to release it in three language markets. A more complete test might want:
      Windows 7 x86, English
      Windows 7 x86, Japanese
      Windows 7 x86, Russian
      Windows 7 x86_64, English
      Windows 7 x86_64, Japanese
      Windows 7 x86_64, Russian
      Vista x86, English
      Vista 7 x86, Japanese
      Vista 7 x86, Russian
      Vista x86_64, English
      Vista 7 x86_64, Japanese
      Vista 7 x86_64, Russian
      XP x86 single-CPU, English
      XP x86 single-CPU, Japanese
      XP x86 single-CPU, Russian
      XP x86_64 single-CPU, English
      XP x86_64 single-CPU, Japanese
      XP x86_64 single-CPU, Russian
      XP x86 MPC, English
      XP x86 MPC, Japanese
      XP x86 MPC, Russian
      XP x86_64 MPC, English
      XP x86_64 MPC, Japanese
      XP x86_64 MPC, Russian

      Needless to say, few companies test all the possible combinations.

      Oh, and probably both home and business versions too. And a couple of server versions.

      And, if using graphics, with the most common graphics card variations -- at the very least the last 2-3 generations from nVidia, ATI and Intel. Repeat for sound if applicable. Then you repeat the tests with and without Administrator rights, and with and without UAC enabled.
      If you really want to be nice, you also test with accessibility features, different DPI settings, and a tablet PC too.

      Yes, there's fragmentation in Android. No, it's not even CLOSE to the fragmentation in the Windows world. Sure, it can be frustrating to port a cell phone app to run on a nook, but at least you know what the nook is going to be like -- it's not like a user has changed the DPI settings, runs a Danish business version of the OS, has replaced the sound card, and uses a 5 TB RAID instead of a micro-SD card.

    68. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ifrag · · Score: 1

      Perhaps by purchasing more than 1 of some models? I don't think anything hinted at only buying 1 of each.

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    69. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL. You use a Windows Mobile phone to make your point about Android? Please. ROMS? What is this, 1988 and we need to cook up a bios upgrade?

      There are about 50,000 apps in the Market. It ain't that difficult.

      Yes, it is up to manufacturers to release updates. That's why you don't target the latest versions, just like EVERYONE in the Android developer community recommends. And yes, sometimes a manufacturer will have a flaky phone. It doesn't happen that often. If you don't like getting cut, don't sit on the bleeding edge.

      --
      -- $G
    70. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you elaborate on why you think iPhone is changing the entire underlaying architecture? Perhaps you meant Windows Mobile?

    71. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 0

      One 21" screen, go to control panel.display change resolution, bit depth, etc.

      No multiple monitors needed. Idiot.

      --
      -- $G
    72. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      Different phones have different features. Some, well, are getting long in the tooth (i.e. G-1 with 64MB). It just means you have to be smart about selecting your target when you start. If you are not ok with the market growing into your app, don't target 2.2.

      --
      -- $G
    73. Re:Scared iPhone developer by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      There are a few places where having actual phones help, but it isn't nearly as bad as a lot of these posters are making it.

      Most of the issues that end up requiring lots of hardware to test on are self inflicted where a dev is trying to improve the experience by rolling their own GUI instead of doing things the Android way. I suppose if you are doing games, this would be a bigger problem than doing business apps and web service front ends.

      Other than that, I've run across an issue with a GPS and a problem with a accelerometer.

      Both were solved by simply not supporting that device. Give it one year and the manufacturers will get it as consumers return their phones and exchange for one that works. This is no different than back when PCs were relatively new when occasionally, a manufacturer would release a slightly less compatible hard drive or floppy controller... some developers would go gaga trying to get it to work, and others would simply shrug and say buy a compatible machine.

      --
      -- $G
    74. Re:Scared iPhone developer by iapetus · · Score: 1

      Certain types of application don't give you the choice to 'do things the Android way', of course, Games being one as you point out.

      When you've got a pre-agreed range of devices to work on, 'not supporting that device' isn't an option either. For hobbyists, sure you can go that way. For professionals, not always.

      Sure, in a lot of cases people don't need to have the full range of devices. But to claim that they're never required before checking up on what the actual dev work is is just a little irrational in my opinion. But then, I'm speaking as someone who does work under these constraints and does find it vitally important to be able to test across a large range of devices.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    75. Re:Scared iPhone developer by rwa2 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is an *apple* developer we're talking about here. You must only help them find ways of *reducing* testing complexity. For example, so that you only have to test with one mouse button.

      *rimshot*

    76. Re:Scared iPhone developer by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      I've got a bunch of Windows Mobile applications which were made for a 200x320 screen and the Pocket PC 2002 operating system and they work just fine on my HD2 with Windows Mobile 6.5 and a 480x800 screen.

      The developers have somehow managed it all those years, hell, I was a Windows Mobile developer myself. It is not that difficult to make an application work with different OS versions and different resolutions.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    77. Re:Scared iPhone developer by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Not at all like fragmentation in the Apple world. I had an old G3 iBook with OS X 10.3 , and it wouldn't run any modern software (stuck at Firefox 2.x). It's like it was simply abandoned because the OS was a couple of releases old. It would have been even worse if Apple hadn't given us a free upgrade from 10.2 after servicing a recall.

      Not paying for the updates to 10.4 / 10.5 ... OTOH, it sold pretty quickly at the yard sale, though, compared to the much beefier Dell laptops that had larger full color LCDs and could run anything.

    78. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good job on the troll! You even got modded +5 Insightful! You are good, but with my help, you could be the best. Your fanboism is thinly veiled by the "charger confusion".

    79. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Builder · · Score: 1

      What ARE you on about ?

    80. Re:Scared iPhone developer by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      The virtual machines they provide are fine for testing different resolutions. Why would you need the actual phone?

    81. Re:Scared iPhone developer by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I was told by iPhone application developers that the iPhone is getting the ability to run multiple third party apps at the same time (not just the stock Apple apps in the background with one third party app in the foreground), plus it's getting something similar to intents (which is the current way Android allows different (third party) apps to share functionality between themselves).

      This implies a major rewrite of the entire permissions system for Apple. And that would certainly explain why Apple has been shedding developers that use different frameworks to write iPhone Apps. The new iPhone OS is going to require a completely different programming paradigm.

    82. Re:Scared iPhone developer by lrohenaz · · Score: 1

      Shocker, developing for one single device on only one network that runs a very slowly changing OS is going to be easier on the developer. The 'scary parts' of android are no different than the complexities for designing for web, and that industry seems to be getting by just fine wouldn't you say? I can make my code work on different browsers, with and without flash or javascript enabled, different browser versions, color depths, internet speeds, geographic locations, screen resolutions and operating systems. Not to mention different server and backend software configurations, iis/apache, sql/mysql etc etc etc etc etc etc. So what is so scary about Android again? The sooner you get over it the sooner you will realize its not that big of an issue at all. This is what we do.

    83. Re:Scared iPhone developer by msclrhd · · Score: 1

      Widescreen? Standard screen? High definition? CRT? LCD? Plasma? TV?

    84. Re:Scared iPhone developer by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      There's hardware heterogeneity issues also, though: some phones have multitouch and some don't, for example, and the processor speeds and screen sizes are different. Even for devices with the same sensors, the sensors can behave differently, e.g. what kind of control over the camera you have and what data it feeds you, and what the accelerometer's characteristics are.

      Doesn't matter for a decent number of apps, but matters for, say, mobile games.

      I dont think it matters at all. A smart programmer should easily be able to query the device for it's capabilities and then only enable the capabilities supported by the device. A simply example is the entirely free "Tricorder" app in the Android Marketplace (yeah, I'm a geek... what can I say?). It offers fake data (or no data) for sensors that dont exist on certain phones, and offers real data for sensors that do exist. Works with everything from the G1 up to the Droid. Having simple device profiles also allows for fine tuning the data collection to the specific sensors and phone. Also a pretty trivial step if one has access to the phone, or feedback from the community (which is pretty easy the way the Android Marketplace is set up for any paid app). Other apps, like the free FoxyRing allow calibrating how it reacts to certain data.

      And if it's a paid app (especially as free apps have figured out all of the above), it behooves the developer to take those few extra steps. Since many of the apps get downloaded to the SD card, and then run an installer, it should be pretty simple to (a) install multitouch interface support or (b) install standard touch interface; while also determining which sensors it can use, etc and storing that data so it knows which to use and which dont exist on each run.

    85. Re:Scared iPhone developer by msclrhd · · Score: 1

      FWIW, the majority of the major UI toolkits now support loading/generating UI from an XML representation of the control graph -- GTK+/Glade, Qt/UI and WPF/XAML -- so that is not surprising.

    86. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ADRA · · Score: 1

      I can't see how hobbyists would care for 100% coverage across all devices. Additionally, the UI toolkit for android is basically the same for all versions of the phone. Plus, you can write as many resolution implementations as you like more or less simply by the editor. Hell, why bother spewing useless anecdotes. Just go and get the SDK. It is FREE. Give it a try for 5 days and determine for yourself if its worth beans for YOU.

      Eclipse IDE:
      http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/

      Android SDK:
      http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html

      Android / Eclipse Integration:
      http://developer.android.com/sdk/eclipse-adt.html

      --
      Bye!
    87. Re:Scared iPhone developer by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      The simpler your application the fewer issues you will have with it, the so called "issue" of fragmentation is only true for the most complex of applications, if you are writing a simple XML parser then you wont have a problem.

      I think this is the whole point of the fear. When you invest in creating a complex app you want to know it's going to work for everyone. There's an inherently higher risk involved with developing for a platform with such varied hardware & software.

      Saying that the fragmentation isn't an issue is glossing over the problem. Kind of like saying there's not fragmentation in desktop computers because you can run flash apps the same across different operating systems. Not every app developed is a fart soundboard.

      When you are creating a complex app (for a cell phone), chances are that you are doing so for the purpose of profit (either that, or you are a really big geek with too much time on your hands), or you are doing it for work, where such efforts will be funded by your boss. In either respect, the added work and testing (which isnt that much) should fit into one's plans since they are releasing a commercial app. I dont see the issue here.

      People have brought up the PC in comparison, and others have debunked it. But the PC is a valid comparison. Why you ask? Simple. Video games. "Back in the day" programmers had to make sure their video game worked on a variety of graphics hardware. And even to this day, it needs to support a variety of graphics capabilities. Yet video game manufacturers somehow manage. And from my experience with a variety of paid and free apps in the Android Marketplace, so do many (yes, not all) Android app developers.

      What this all boils down to is what is the definition being used for the word "issue(s)"? More work involved? Sure... but like we both noted, that's nothing new to any decent developer. And not as nightmarishly difficult as earlier graphics and video apps on the PC.

    88. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you check ducomputergeek's posting history, you'll see that he does indeed post that very "statistic" (4x the iPhone price) over and over again. Looks a lot like propaganda to me.

    89. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, whatever, bitch. Calling people out on their bs is trolling now. This site has turned into a joke. Thanks for making it even funnier/sadder.

    90. Re:Scared iPhone developer by tetrisornot · · Score: 1

      If you were really serious about developing for Android you would already know that this is not an issue as their are ways to make your content dynamic. You can develop for all sorts of devices by using parameters such as wrap_content, fill_parent which set the layout for various screen sizes. There are also many other ways to toggle features through the UI which can be disabled for devices that don't meat the requirements. Developing for Android 2.2 will be a better experience as far as support goes with the new Crash Reports that are built in and notify the developers directly. Hardware differences for phones are not an issue despite what many will lead you to believe as long as you program with best practices and avoid making static entries and fixed width Views. Also another plus for developing for Android is that your not just developing for phones now, you will be developing for Google TV, Chrome OS and Tablet Android devices. These are supposed to be "easily" portable from Android to other APIs with minimal effort. So you will eventually be reaching an extremely large audience in the not so distant future.

    91. Re:Scared iPhone developer by EMR · · Score: 1

      Yes they are adding the functionality for backgrounding tasks etc.. I've heard and seen nothing on the "sharing" of between applications, only of adding in 3rd party handlers for mime-types. (ie.. opening an ODF in a 3rd party ODF application from the stock mail app). That does not require any rewrite of permissions.

      And the way that the new backgrounding is being added is fairly seamless and doesn't require much of any change at all. And no "completely different programming paradigm" is required. Not sure who you are talking with, but they don't seem that well informed. All Apple did was pull in the "closures" that they introduced in Mac OS X 10.6 to build the "background tasks".. not really a "completely different" programming paradigm.

      And I do believe that the whole "different frameworks" mess is just Apple and Adobe getting into a "pissing contest". Apple, Adobe, and Google are all acting like little kids in a playground up there and causing lots of collateral damage down here for the rest of us.

    92. Re:Scared iPhone developer by recharged95 · · Score: 1
      • 2nd Gen iPod.
      • 3rd gen iPod--users with 2.1, 2.2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, eventually (all different and yes, some owners ignore the ipod upgrade--even when forced--i.e. no syncing).
      • gen 1, gen 2 iPhone (with 2.1, 3.1, 3.2, etc...) and 3GS.
      • iPad
      • Likely gen 4 devices (Ipod and iPhone)

      Heck, my old gen 2 ipod is sitting as a paper weight, and my gen 3 ipod touch is still on 3.1... Works fine for me and haven't updated iTunes until they force me to.

      With the number of users of the iUniverse, and those that ignore the itunes upgrades for iPod/iPhone/iPad, or don't pay the $9.99 ipod touch firmware updates... I say the iUniverse is just as fragmented as the Android world.

      The big difference is I can still develop in Android 1.3 for those who choose not to upgrade and it's easier to code in Android. Where as I can't in the iUniverse (must be on 3.3 w/SL OSX, and likely OS4 with SL OSX+ by the end of the year). All those folks with a gen1/2 iPhones and gen 3 ipods that don't want to upgrade are SOL.... when all they want to do is maybe just to play a freakin song or make a simple phone call.

    93. Re:Scared iPhone developer by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      all flavors of the iPhone...they all look exactly the same and have the same physical characteristics...
      In the case of a Droid vs. a Nexus One vs. whatever other Android device exist...The devices not only look different, but are fundamentally different

      This is called "choice" and it's something desirable to some of us. I wanted a physical keyboard, so I got a Droid. You may want a larger screen, so you choose the Huawei. Or you may want a better camera, and choose the Hero.

      Or you may have your choice dictated to you by Apple.

    94. Re:Scared iPhone developer by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      Anyone who says you DON'T have to buy a bunch of phones doesn't know how development works.

      Google is happy to loan you various models at their dev conferences. Lemme guess: You've never been to one. Lemme guess again: You've never actually developed anything.

    95. Re:Scared iPhone developer by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I could see how it wouldn't let you get away with silly stuff like "this element should be 32 pixels high", but DPI is so variable that it'd be insane to do that in the first place. Aspect ratio might be harder to account for, but that's solvable with scroll bars and text wrapping if you need the space, or whitespace if you don't. Where is the problem? I could see issues with running a high DPI application on a low DPI screen, but the converse shouldn't present any issues...

    96. Re:Scared iPhone developer by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Yes they are adding the functionality for backgrounding tasks etc..

      I would have thought that this would necessitate sandboxing of some kind.

      I've heard and seen nothing on the "sharing" of between applications, only of adding in 3rd party handlers for mime-types. (ie.. opening an ODF in a 3rd party ODF application from the stock mail app).

      My mistake then. I was having a debate with an iPhone developer, and he was telling me the next iPhone OS would have all kinds of sharing functionality between third party applications (but based on what you're saying, adding 3rd party handlers for mime-types will make it more like a PC, but that's going to be nothing like Android at all).

    97. Re:Scared iPhone developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And unlike the iPhone, which is changing its complete underlying architecture as we speak

      Why is this FUD modded up? The addition of multitasking is a minimal change to the SDK, background tasks are completely optional, and are not just your entire app running while others are. Typical Apple-hater/google-fan with no knowledge of the platforms or the state of development. Keep on readin' those blogs and regurgitating it on slashdot.

    98. Re:Scared iPhone developer by soppsa · · Score: 1

      I have experience with Android including very simple android development

      Your Hello World app ran on your Droid and your buddies Hero, congrats! That must be the same as writing a game or something people would buy right?

    99. Re:Scared iPhone developer by mweather · · Score: 1

      The majority of android devices have multi-touch and multiple buttons, accelerometers, magnetometers, and GPS.

    100. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Widescreen? Standard screen? High definition?

      Yep, believe it or not those are all taken care of by the operating system and applications and you just need to worry about width and height of the screen. If you're working at a fairly low level, you might worry about the dot pitch and do something accordingly (i.e. ensure that graphic objects match the font scaling factor). On starting your application, you may need to do a handful of calculations to figure out proportional layouts for your screen.

      CRT? LCD? Plasma? TV?

      Again, unless you're an employee of the video card manufacturer and writing the graphics drivers, that is all abstracted away to screen devices with width and height. No need to worry about VGA vs. DVI vs. DisplayPort. No need to worry about display technology unless you're dealing with professional graphics tools that need to support colour correction (I don't think that will be an issue on smartphones).

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    101. Re:Scared iPhone developer by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Well, I think you're confusing two types of different QA: the QA a software developer would do in putting a package together for sales and the QA an IT shop should do in deploying a package, because you're doing both for the government. While I can see a game developer testing their game on major chip generations from nVidia, ATI, and Intel hardware (and perhaps other older manufacturers as well) because there is significant variations (including bugs) in the implementations of 3D graphics rendering pipelines, there isn't much point in doing that with 2D applications using standard windowing calls. You would test typical resolutions 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1200 (and maybe the comparable 16:9 aspect ratio resolutions) to make sure your layout algorithms didn't do something stupid. But, believe or not! you don't actually need to buy separate test systems for each of those resolutions! Even if you're doing work in full screens and not windows, it's actually possible to have screens that switch between those resolutions through software!

      Now when it comes to deployment in your production environment, you absolutely should test the app with all your typical systems configuration. But no shrink wrap software developer is ever going to do this for the massive combination of devices and vendors in the PC compatible market. They may test with a number of the vendors with the largest market share, but not even Microsoft can validate every driver for every piece of hardware out there (which is why there are so many hardware vendors that ship unsigned drivers).

      So, no, most professional software developers making shrink-wrapped software don't waste money doing what you do. They only do QA for the variables that are relevant for their application and don't waste time and money duplicating testing that should have been done by the device manufacturer or O/S vendor. An IT department however does have to do UAT to validate all software against their various system configurations.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  2. It's Early In Android's Market Life by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1, Insightful

    These "growing pains" need to be worked out, but app developers will quickly learn to check versions at runtime to make sure most of their features will work in older (or newer) versions of Android.

    Apple took care very well from the start, but they've had lots of consumer software experience. Goole & Android will get their act together ... it will just take a little time.

    1. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by causality · · Score: 4, Interesting

      These "growing pains" need to be worked out, but app developers will quickly learn to check versions at runtime to make sure most of their features will work in older (or newer) versions of Android. Apple took care very well from the start, but they've had lots of consumer software experience. Goole & Android will get their act together ... it will just take a little time.

      I thought Apple's approach was to strictly control both the hardware platform and the developer's tools, both to ensure they will work together and also to make it highly inconvenient for developers to port their apps to other platforms like Android. That sounds like marketing and vendor lock-in experience. The term "software experience" seems to suggest that they have tackled the complexity involved with developing for diverse systems instead of avoiding it.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by JanneM · · Score: 1

      "...app developers will quickly learn to check versions at runtime to make sure most of their features will work in older (or newer) versions of Android."

      AFAIK, they already do. You declare the minimum API version in the application manifest. All Android versions in use today (1.5 and upwards) are backward-compatible, so if you as a developer wants to maximise the number of users is to target the lowest version that still supports the features your app needs. Which, for most of them, is any version currently in use.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    3. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by mlts · · Score: 1

      I think Android will end up thrashing its problems out probably by the end of this year, or first quarter of 2011, as the OS goes from having to be deployed as fast as possible to get marketshare before Apple locks down the market like they did with MP3 players, to changing to a mature app platform that is decently supported across handset makers and cellular carriers. Android 2.2 has taken some steps to get there, but what it will take is getting to where the iPhone OS is right now when it comes to encrypting user data.

      Android still lacks some important features before it can make inroads into lucrative markets such as businesses (which buy smartphones by the thousands.) The first is true SD card encryption. Yes, apps on the SD card are encrypted in Android 2.2, but what is needed is encryption of any files the device plops onto the memory card, and to have this able to be enabled via the Exchange server. There is also the need of having other security features, such as erasing the device if someone guesses the PIN too many times, or if the SIM card gets swapped out to an unauthorized one. If this can be done, Android may start nudging the crufty (but secure and reg compliant) Windows Mobile devices out of the business sector.

      My hope is that by the time Android gets this functionality, there will be devices that will not just support rooting, but be able to be custom flashed. As time goes on, devices are becoming more and more modder and rooting hostile. If this is the case, I really hope Google offers an ADP3 or ADP4.

    4. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      I thought Apple's approach was to strictly control both the hardware platform and the developer's tools, both to ensure they will work together and also to make it highly inconvenient for developers to port their apps to other platforms like Android. That sounds like marketing and vendor lock-in experience.

      Most app features will work on most iProducts ... but not all. When iPhone 4.0 comes out this summer some of the newer features won't work on earlier handsets (ie, multitasking won't work on a 3G or earlier handsets). Yes, Apple is evil for their lock-in, but I was referencing the article's main subject, which is fragmentation & obsolescence due to handset and OS vertsions.

      The term "software experience" seems to suggest that they have tackled the complexity involved with developing for diverse systems instead of avoiding it.

      Their Macintosh consumer software experience. They've had a lot of years of practice making sure most, but not all, software runs on older (and newer) versions of their Mac OS. That experience translates directly to making sure the same thing happens on the iProduct lines.

    5. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Nothing in 4.0 will work in handsets earlier than the 3G because they won't be building 4.0 for those devices at all.

    6. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      And Apple's computers and other consumer devices, including the iPhone are fragmented. Please stop using them as a bastion of solidarity.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    7. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      You make some good points but you yield too much success for Android to the business market. Far more consumers use cells than business does, if not thousands to one then millions to one.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    8. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes consumers use a lot more cellphones than business. but the smartphone segment is still pretty well dominated by businesses. That's why RIM is still winning the smartphone market pretty handily.

    9. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      I have to laugh at this because it smells of the finest astrotruf: "Apple took care very well from the start, but they've had lots of consumer software experience. Goole & Android will get their act together ... it will just take a little time."

      --
      -- $G
    10. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by bm_luethke · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they will certainly know to do that. When you create an Android application you tell it your minimum hardware and software requires (and have no choice but to do so) and the Dalvik machine will not let it run if you can't. It has done this from the very beginning - heck the app store will not even let you view software you can't run.

      Those were some quick growing pains there - it was there from conception, I bet Apple isn't even *that* responsive.

      --
      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    11. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it's Android that makes the porting hard.
      Coding in android-java or android-c++ isn't the real thing.
      Google intentionally choose to cripple both languages used on Android to make them incompatible with other devices.
      My iPhone games would be easily portable of Google didn't cripple Android's c++ implementation.
      If anything, Google is doing vendor locking disguised as open source.

    12. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by HermMunster · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Irrelevant.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    13. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by beowulfcluster · · Score: 1

      Trying getting some newer apps running on my older 10.4 Mac has been futile. I could upgrade the OS on that one if it was really necessary but then I'd lose the use of the music software that requires a dongle whose authentication software only runs on 10.4. I'll think long and hard before ever buying software that requires a dongle again, though that's a separate issue.

    14. Re:It's Early In Android's Market Life by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      Their Macintosh consumer software experience. They've had a lot of years of practice making sure most, but not all, software runs on older (and newer) versions of their Mac OS. That experience translates directly to making sure the same thing happens on the iProduct lines.

      LOLwhut? My Macintosh consumer software experience is that as soon as a new version of the OS is released, no new software released for the platform will work on the older version of the OS. That includes lots of trivially simple software. Forced obsolescence is one of the main drawbacks of the Macintosh experience. Using a five years old Mac is a pain. Not that Android is any better on this point: few Andoid phones get OS updates. Seems like Apple has decided that supporting two to three generations of iPhone is enough.

  3. Flash has had the same problems by SavedLinuXgeeK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The flash runtime has experienced the same problems as it was a developing platform. Flash 8,9 and 10 are all still in use today and have different feature sets and programming models. I realize the analog is slightly different as android is an OS and not a runtime, but the fact remains that progress requires this. We as geeks bemoan long development cycles and slow progress. Well the way to get around slow progress is quick iterations, and that gets to you to fragmentation. Adobe has realized this and their rate of development has slowed as they have stabilized on where they want the platform to go. Give android a year or so, and once Google realizes where it wants android to go, the iterations should slow down dramatically, and fragmentation will be a thing of the past.

    --
    je suis parce que j'aime
    1. Re:Flash has had the same problems by causality · · Score: 3, Informative

      The flash runtime has experienced the same problems as it was a developing platform. Flash 8,9 and 10 are all still in use today and have different feature sets and programming models.

      With Flash I doubt that the features added between Version 8 and Version 10 were natural progressions and refinements of the concepts and principles on which that system is based. Instead, I see them as "we gotta give our customers a reason to buy the latest version so let's add more bloat!"

      We as geeks bemoan long development cycles and slow progress.

      It depends on how sound and useful the initial design was. The POSIX standard has a slow development cycle. So does the X Windowing Protocol. I haven't seen many fundamental innovations for the TCP protocol lately either. I have seen bugfixes and things of that nature, but not much bloat and feature creep. For those things, the design closely matched the intended purpose and philosophy and there was little or no marketing pressure to always have something new to sell. I think it's precisely because those things are the concern of geeks and are the "under the hood" type of thing that average end-users wouldn't directly work with. Things like Flash animations and iPhones are much more visible and immediately practical for average users and there we see marketing pressures and faster developments.

      Adobe has realized this and their rate of development has slowed as they have stabilized on where they want the platform to go.

      I think what Adobe has realized is that the proposed video functions of HTML5 could be a direct threat to their little proprietary standard fiefdom and that vendors like Apple have some good (business) reasons not to use their products. I think that would get them to concentrate on something more substantial than more bells and whistles and put pressure on them to produce a good, solid runtime. The only thing I wonder is whether they are prepared to address the absolute joke that Flash has been when it comes to security. It's easily up there with Sendmail and BIND so far as track records are concerned.

      Give android a year or so, and once Google realizes where it wants android to go, the iterations should slow down dramatically, and fragmentation will be a thing of the past.

      I hope so. The closed nature of Apple's products is my biggest single problem with them. Most users don't care so there is little reason for Apple to see this as a problem. Therefore, what it would take to change that would be another company (like Google) who can give them serious competition without such tactics.

      I realize the analog is slightly different as android is an OS and not a runtime, but the fact remains that progress requires this.

      Conscious or subconscious, that looks to me like what you realize is that some Slashdotters love to attack you based on things you never actually claimed. Had you omitted that line, I could see them now, the follow-up posts saying "huh huh, an OS is not a runtime, therefore you don't know what you're talking about and you're wrong and I'm right so hah!" The way I explain it is that if I didn't explicitly outright claim something, it's for a reason and is not the product of random chance.

      My approach to those would-be killjoys for whom feeling superior to somebody is more important than reading comprehension is different. I refuse to add little disclaimers like that because for more nuanced posts, those would be longer than the point I am making. I also refuse to do it because I won't cater to maladaptive behavior that disguises itself as useful critique. Instead, I let them try that on me and then show them why it was useless.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:Flash has had the same problems by SEE · · Score: 1

      The POSIX standard has a slow development cycle. So does the X Windowing Protocol.

      The X Windowing Protocol went through 11 incompatible versions in its first three-and-a-half years. So by comparison, Android is downright stodgy.

    3. Re:Flash has had the same problems by causality · · Score: 1

      The POSIX standard has a slow development cycle. So does the X Windowing Protocol.

      The X Windowing Protocol went through 11 incompatible versions in its first three-and-a-half years. So by comparison, Android is downright stodgy.

      Not to be nit-picky but this situation calls for it: saying it "has" (present tense) a slow development cycle is not a claim that this has always been the case since its inception.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Flash has had the same problems by SEE · · Score: 1

      Not to be nit-picky but this situation calls for it: saying it "has" (present tense) a slow development cycle is not a claim that this has always been the case since its inception.

      You think the situation calls for being nit-picky? Wonderful, sir. Then let us pick the nit in context:

      It depends on how sound and useful the initial design was. The POSIX standard has a slow development cycle. So does the X Windowing Protocol.

      Saying that "[i]t depends on how sound and useful the initial design was" is an explicit invocation of the case at the inception. And so the state of your examples at their respective inceptions is plainly relevant to evaluating your statement.

    5. Re:Flash has had the same problems by causality · · Score: 1

      Not to be nit-picky but this situation calls for it: saying it "has" (present tense) a slow development cycle is not a claim that this has always been the case since its inception.

      You think the situation calls for being nit-picky? Wonderful, sir. Then let us pick the nit in context:

      It depends on how sound and useful the initial design was. The POSIX standard has a slow development cycle. So does the X Windowing Protocol.

      Saying that "[i]t depends on how sound and useful the initial design was" is an explicit invocation of the case at the inception. And so the state of your examples at their respective inceptions is plainly relevant to evaluating your statement.

      First of all, the X protocol of which I spoke has been around since Project Athena (MIT) in 1984. That's about 26 years. The first 3 years of those 26 years constitutes 11.5% of its history and only the earliest part thereof. The point you think you are making hinges on a small minority of its overall history that has nothing to do with the present-day case of which I explicitly spoke.

      You failed to properly understand the last two paragraphs of my initial post in this thread, where I said that the way I word things is not a product of random chance, that if I do not explicitly claim a thing, it is because I don't wish to. I did not claim that the X protocol has never had frequent revisions during its early history. If you think I claimed that, provide an HTML link to the post in which I have done so and quote the relevant text of that post. There's no way you can do this because it didn't happen.

      I claimed that the X protocol is currently a stable protocol. It certainly could have experienced massive revisions during its early history and still become a stable protocol today. That is not a contradiction.

      You then proceeded to read into my post what was not there. X has been around for many years and I claimed only that (present tense) it currently has a slow development cycle. You indirectly claim that the first three of those many years determined the truth or falsehood of what I describe as its present-day status. That's patently false.

      The rest is some need of yours to save face by continuing to bicker after first ignoring my initial post, committing the very mistake it described, and then trying to cover it up. That's your problem; as such you are free to deal with it as you will.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    6. Re:Flash has had the same problems by SEE · · Score: 1

      You indirectly claim

      Which is to say, I did not, in fact, explicitly make that claim.

      Almost looks as if it could have been a deliberate test to see if you would treat others the way you say you'd like to be treated, no?

    7. Re:Flash has had the same problems by c0lo · · Score: 1

      "huh huh, an OS is not a runtime, therefore

      Mandatory disclaimer: emacs excluded.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    8. Re:Flash has had the same problems by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Wow! Can you look into the future, or what?

      When you went into a rant about slashdotters towards the end of your GGGGP post, I thought it was simply cathartic. But there was the exact "nit-picky while missing the point" response from SEE. Just awesome.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  4. Android 2.2 helping with this? by mlts · · Score: 1

    I think if handset makers and carriers can do this, getting Android 2.2 as a baseline onto all devices might be what the doctor ordered for this.

    The main reason is not just JIT compiling, nor the ability to run apps on the SD card (which is important for older phones). Instead, Android 2.2 offers a lot more modular upgrade path, where before devices in previous versions would have to be completely reflashed just to support one item.

    Time will tell if 2.2 gets adopted, or if we still have the version fragmentation issue in the future.

    1. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HTC has said that devices made in 2010 will be getting 2.2 however older devices will not. I'm not sure about other manufacturers though.

      The community will probably pick up the slack and get 2.2 onto the more popular "old" devices.

    2. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      That works for the geeks, but the casual user is going to get frustrated that he has to buy a new phone to get all of the things that his friends get merely by updating. HTC makes some excellent phones, but their business model is based on a significant portion of their users buying phones more rapidly than every two years.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    3. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by Random5 · · Score: 1

      The support is looking pretty good so far for 2.1 if not 2.2 - Motorola have committed to updating pretty much all their older phones to 2.1 before the years end, Samsung already has, SonyEricsson has committed to for the X10. Theoretically before Gingerbread is released everyone but G1 owners will have official Eclair (HTC haven't said anything official for the Magic but given that there's 2.1 for the hero which has identical hardware it can't be far off

    4. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Do you really believe that the majority of handset makers will be getting 2.2 on their devices? Hell, I'll heave a big sigh of relief if I get it on my Milestone, and what about all those Motorola Motoblur, Samsung, LG and older HTC devices? I don't believe it, to be honest...

      The best thing for all of us would be a Android terms-of-use clause of some sort: If you use Android on your product, you are required to keep it up to date (OTA updates to the latest Android versions at most 4 weeks after Google releases them) for at least... 5 years?

    5. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by mlts · · Score: 1

      In reality, I would be happy if a handset maker would keep Android updated for at least one year after the device is discontinued, preferably 2-3 years, which is the length of a cellphone contract. This makes people view that the device they are stuck with for 2 years (which is the usual contract length here in the US) is worth the purchase price, and when the contract is up, will likely stick with the same provider for the next phone.

      I think that as time goes on and Android becomes a mature platform, that having to have the absolute latest version of the OS won't be as critical. For example, Windows Mobile 5 to 6 did have that many fundamental changes that would force users to move to it, other than SD card encryption and Exchange policies. The bad thing is that this is going to probably take a year or two before all the core features that would make Android enterprise-ready, so a handset bought now may not officially be able to run future Android versions, especially if the maker only lets certain signed kernels run on their devices.

      Once Android matures to a point where what changes with versions is the UI mainly (similar to how Windows Mobile's UI has evolved from 5.0 to 6.5), I'm sure most of the arguments about fragmentation will go away, other than hardware/handset issues.

      Of course, there will be features that will cause fragmentation (3D graphic support comes to mind which came to one device in Windows Mobile a few years back.) But once the foundation is in place, most apps should be able to work across any modern version of Android with few problems.

      Ultimately, what Android needs long-term is for someone (be it Google with a UI and the OS, a handset maker with a cool phone, or an app maker who has a "killer app") to start taking the lead and offering cool features with it to keep critical mass and the app developers. Otherwise, the platform will always be chasing Apple, and we all know how that turned out in the MP3 player market where Apple essentially has an iron grip there except for the low-end flash players.

    6. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      (I don't wanna answer to the iTard above but damn the first useful post was low.)

      Anyway, it's not a problem, or well, shouldn't be a problem.

      The phone should be open, simple as that. I should be able to install the latest version of my phone, which would require that:
      a) The phone manufacturers submitted patches/drivers back to Google.
      b) I was allowed to install whatever firmware on my phone.

      If the companies manufacturing the phone is too retarded for that then atleast they should build the firmware themselves and let me download it.

      A new version isn't a disadvantage, it's an advantage, and I want it on my phone.

      Let the Apple consumers be alone replacing their whole headset for every minor software upgrade.

    7. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by aliquis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I won't be buying an Android phone until they let me myself upgrade the OS with the latest or a modified version at my will.

    8. Re:Android 2.2 helping with this? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Agreed - smartphone vendors need to understand that these devices have hefty price tags and you can't obsolete them after six months as a result.

      I love the forums in the android modding community where fanboys basically suggest that we should all go out and buy a Nexus One. Well, considering that G1s were being sold maybe 6-8 months before the N1 came out, doesn't that seem a bit nuts? Who buys two $500 smartphones in a year?

      In the IT industry hardware becomes obsolete. I'm fine with that. However, the device shouldn't be abandoned for upgrades only months after it ships. When not a single Android device is two years old yet, it seems a bit shameful that about 1/3rd of them are not supported on any of the releases for the last 12 months.

  5. Obsolescence Is Obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I remember a time when people complained about desktop computers becoming obsolete too quickly. I also work at a local PC repair shop where I see and fix computers daily that have slower processors and less RAM than the Droid Incredible, sometimes some that are lower spec'ed than the Droid Eris. I'll believe in handsets becoming obsolete when I see Android fail without any other explanation. (and I thought I heard somewhere that Android is doing very well for itself (http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/05/10/195251/Android-Sales-Surpass-iPhone-Sales?art_pos=11))

    1. Re:Obsolescence Is Obsolete by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Planned obsolescence OTOH is certainly a desirable thing to some people...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  6. Words of Wisdom by grcumb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With apologies to... Henry Spencer:

    "Those who fail to understand apt-get are condemned to re-invent it, poorly."

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    1. Re:Words of Wisdom by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Someone want to explain to me what makes this "Interesting?" Or for that matter, what makes it at all relevant...

    2. Re:Words of Wisdom by grcumb · · Score: 4, Informative

      Someone want to explain to me what makes this "Interesting?" Or for that matter, what makes it at all relevant...

      Because the people providing the operating systems for mobile devices are discovering, to nobody's surprise but their own (and apparently yours), that being able to manage and maintain a software base over a diverse number of architectures and platforms is a non-trivial task.

      In my professional experience, the inventors of apt-get were the first to create an adequate means of maintaining a largely stable system, managing compatibility and dependency issues over tens of thousands of applications, utilities and drivers.

      The implication of my statement, therefore, is that Google should be giving more thought to package management issues as a means of reducing their own software maintenance overheads.

      Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen in any useful way, because all the phone suppliers only dream of being Apple, so they're intent only on controlling every means of access to the apps and other software that runs on their phone.

      Therefore, these vendors - who fail to understand why apt-get is important - are condemned to creating their own proprietary update services and interfaces, and because they are neither unified nor open, it's quite likely that each of them will get it wrong in unique and entertaining ways.

      That one little sentence took a bit of unpacking, but there you go.

      HTH, HAND.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:Words of Wisdom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to be able to apt-get quite easily on my phone.

    4. Re:Words of Wisdom by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not likely to happen because apt-get is a pretty terrible model for end-user facing software.

      The Android software distribution and versioning model is pretty much exactly what I spent a couple of years campaigning for in the desktop Linux world about 5-6 years ago. Some of the core ideas of apt are there - a central repository of software that vends package files which can be obtained via other means if you want.

      But Android nails so many things the desktop Linux guys just never understood. For one, apps depend on the platform and nothing else. Some apps can gain additional functionality when other apps are present and the OS makes that easy to code up, but those dependencies are always optional. The market doesn't have any concept of "dependency resolution" because otherwise you'd rapidly end up with what you get in the Linux world - uninstallable applications with no good way to explain why to the end user.

      The Android model allows software dependencies on a strongly versioned platform, and also allows hardware dependencies because they do vary by device (I'll note that apt has no concept of a hardware dependency). The versioning of the Android platform is "correct" in that it's what I always wanted Linux to move to - a single number that identifies a large range of APIs that are revved together every so often. GNOME follows this model most closely in the Linux world. But GNOME misses some key pieces. Firstly the Android dev tools make it easy to target old versions, so easy it's actually the default. Now try compiling an app on your up to date developer workstation that targets GNOME 2.0 - you'll find it's not possible. The development tools will conspire to stop you (typically header files). I complained about this several times and was told, basically, that there was no interest in fixing this.

      It's unsurprising then that the Linux model has collapsed into chaos so quickly, a chaos so profound that the only way to tackle it is to try and "stop the world" every 6 months. People might bitch about Android fragmentation today, but they'd bitch a lot more if only one version of their app was offered to each user, tied to OS upgrades!

    5. Re:Words of Wisdom by Superken7 · · Score: 1

      IMHO, that should not apply to systems based on sandboxing. You see, the system has been designed in order not to require package dependencies.
      You can't install system files, everything is sandboxed so your app can only go as far as the dalvik+android APIs let you go.

      Also, android intents make sure there are no strict app to app dependencies (i.e. this app uses this other app).

      I think Android itself is proof enough - over 50.000 apps and there is still no need for an apt-like system.

    6. Re:Words of Wisdom by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      You know, sir, I took all that from the original little sentence. There is something to be said (briefly, ha!) for concision.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    7. Re:Words of Wisdom by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Well, actually, in the case of the Android phones (or sandboxed systems in general), it is slightly reversed: instead of a single base system with many applications installing cross-dependent libraries, you have various systems with numerous applications requiring libraries or features available in different variations or degrees on each base system. So the "cross-dependencies" are between a single app and the various operating system versions or devices on which it will run, and not between apps themselves.

            -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    8. Re:Words of Wisdom by ADRA · · Score: 1

      You can install all programs directly from the market, but there's no reason why they can't 'link' to other published features of other other applications. For example maps is used by a ton of other apps. If maps released a new version that broke compatibility( or wasn't installed) then the root app would break or perform at reduced capacity.

      Also, I'm running into problems writing an API implementation that other apps use. I'm either stuck with having each Android app deploy the exact same API jar packaging when installed (larger apps / more phone storage taken up), or put the API implementation into a single 'app' and have them access the app through the remoting API and having a light-weight shim on the client's code (more complicated / error prone).

      --
      Bye!
  7. That depends, really... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Arguably, there are two broad classes of users/applications for Android: the ones that need a cheap phone OS that sucks less than your average "dumbphone" or "featurephone" OS(both in terms of general usability, and in terms of the dev team's ease of getting things going) and the ones who want an "Android smartphone", and wish to run "Android applications" on it, and so forth.

    You would expect the former group to be heavily fragmented; but for that fragmentation not to matter very much. For any device where Android is simply being used as a cheaper or easier alternative to a dumbphone/featurephone OS, or even to some other embedded operating system(as with a cheap digital photoframe or GPS or something), the version, and most likely the applications, the device ships with will be the ones it dies with. Fragmentation will be inevitable; but also won't matter much(upgrades will generally not be expected, outside of a few tinkering geek who can roll their own, device developers will use the Android version of their choice when developing. No big deal.)

    The trickier case is the part of the market that directly competes with iPhones. Here, updates are generally expected, adding applications and having things work is a prerequisite for success, and fragmentation is a bad thing. Google's own blessed handsets seem to be avoiding this reasonably well(within the limits of hardware advance. The G1 is starting to show its age; but so is the gen-1 iPhone); but some of the tier-2 carrier stuff is looking a little more doubtful.

    Personally, I suspect that the critical thing will be whether or not expectations are correctly matched to devices. Having more or less fixed-spec "featurephones" being based on Android isn't bad for Android unless those phones are then sold to unwitting buyers as being equivalent to the high-end, frequently updated, fully app-compatible "Android Phones". If they are just sold as featurephones with decent browsers and mail clients, no harm, no foul. If they are (essentially dishonestly) sold as cheaper-but-equivalent alternatives to the properly updated Android devices, there will be a lot of unhappy customers stuck with outdated firmware.

    1. Re:That depends, really... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      I keep waiting for Android actually proving itself in "can run cheap devices"; so far...pretty much nothing. Not in comparison to Symbian, which certainly have shown it can run on cheap (but still very durable) hardware; with cheapest Symbian phones not much more expensive than 100 bucks now...without contract.
      Seems to be working, with half of all smartphone sales... (and that is still less than 20% of what Nokia sells; there's plenty of room for new users) With UI built around Qt, it should be rather nice, too (also for devs)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:That depends, really... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      The G1 is starting to show its age; but so is the gen-1 iPhone); but some of the tier-2 carrier stuff is looking a little more doubtful.

      Yes, but the G1 is only 18 months old, and the gen-1 iPhone is 3 years old. I could argue that the gen-1 iPhone also is still getting better support today than the G1.

      When you're selling $500 phones to the public, go get a new one every year isn't really a viable upgrade strategy.

  8. Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by eparker05 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My Droid Eris was on Android 1.5 for the last several months and I noticed very few differences between it and my father's Droid with 2.0. Yea he had voice nav, and he got live wallpapers when the 2.1 rolled out, but the core features that made me love the OS were largely identical (push gmail, widgets, great web browsing experience, etc.).

    The only people to be hurt by the 'fragmentation/obsolescence' issue is developers. I don't want to downplay the developer issue, but as far as consumers are concerned , most of the big-time apps have no trouble supporting multiple iterations of the platform.

    1. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by furball · · Score: 1

      most of the big-time apps have no trouble supporting multiple iterations of the platform

      So it's a real problem to some big-time apps. This may also limit how many apps become big-time apps.

    2. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by Angst+Badger · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only people to be hurt by the 'fragmentation/obsolescence' issue is developers. I don't want to downplay the developer issue, but as far as consumers are concerned , most of the big-time apps have no trouble supporting multiple iterations of the platform.

      On the contrary, please do downplay the developer issue. Obviously, it matters a great deal to us as developers, but the purpose of hardware and software -- at least in the commercial market -- isn't to please developers, it's to please customers so they'll give money to the companies that employ the developers. If enough customers want a device that requires the developers to read documentation in cuneiform and write code in assembly language, then we'll be reading documentation in cuneiform and writing code in assembly language, or the software companies will find someone who will.

      Don't get me wrong; *I* care about these issues as much as the next developer. But nobody but us cares about these issues or what we think about them. For the vast majority of us who don't work at mythical miracle companies that actually give a wet crap what their programming staff thinks, we'll end up coding for whatever platform the bean counters and bizdev monkeys decide is going to sell. And if they're wrong -- a decision that's ultimately going to be made by consumers with even less technical knowledge than the bean counters -- then we'll end up working on something else, possibly at another company if the last one didn't have enough capital reserves to withstand a product failure.

      That being the case, the author of TFA is either out of touch with the reality of the industry or, as several posters have suggested, this is just astroturf FUD designed to scare consumers away by using long, scary words -- like fragmentation, for example -- whose meaning they don't know, just as most of them probably have no idea what an operating system is or that Android is an OS. I'd be willing to wager a decent chunk of change that most non-technical customers would read the headline and the first couple of sentences of TFA -- they're certainly not going to read the whole thing -- and conclude that the gist of the article is that Android phones are more likely to physically break into little bits than iPhones.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    3. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you're getting the point here though... the point is how do the developers know which platform version to shoot for?

      How much ram does your lowest common denominator device have? How much storage? What APIs are safe vs what are not.

      Wait for the tech support complaints to come in when "app XYZ is too damn slow" on my android phone, or "you said it would work"

      These are not insurmountable things, but Apple developers have basically 2 platforms... iPhone and iPad. Both are the same APIs, only differing if you want to do OpenGL. If you have a really intense CPUbound or graphics bound app, you might also have to check for CPU speed to lower the quality slightly for G1 iPhones.

    4. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by eparker05 · · Score: 1

      I would have thought that the last 20 years of desktop OS programming would have taught programmers how to deal with the fact that not every customer has an identical piece of hardware. I'm sure it makes it marginally harder when you aren't programming for a completely homogeneous platform, but it's not a new paradigm.

    5. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're obviously another Apple fanboy grasping at straws.

    6. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that. One of HTC's phones erases all user data when it does the upgrade (to 2.1, I think). Users are sure going to care about that.

    7. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by eparker05 · · Score: 1

      I own an Eris and I recently got the update. I noticed a contact loss for about 1 minute until the phone re-synced and restored all my info stored on the cloud.

      For the 99.9% of people who sync contacts with Google or Facebook there is no loss. When I bought my phone, the Verizon representative insisted that we set it up with all the accounts I have. I'm sure this is true for most Eris owners. For that 0.1% of Android phone owners without Google or Facebook, HTC distributed PC sync software for the purpose of backing up contacts.

    8. Re:Consumers don't care. Developers get a bum deal by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, please do downplay the developer issue.

      Why? Do you think "developers, developers, developers" was not a significant part of Microsoft's success?

      If enough customers want a device that requires the developers to read documentation in cuneiform and write code in assembly language, then we'll be reading documentation in cuneiform and writing code in assembly language

      How? By working 200 hours a day?

      , or the software companies will find someone who will.

      You think software companies can find non-existent people? Enough customers would want a stone which converts anything to gold by touching it. Have the companies found "someone who will" build such a stone?

      But nobody but us cares about these issues or what we think about them.

      That's right. But it is not that a developer just "thinks" that fragmentation is bad. Developers have only 24 hours a day. There can only be a limited number of developers employed in a given amount of total salary. If developers can't do something, the company employing them can't do it. If the company can't do it, it doesn't matter whether there are enough customers for it or not.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  9. This isn't Google's fault... by kidgenius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...But is phone manufacturer. If you make the phone and it just runs a vanilla Android OS, then you can theoretically push the update out without too much pain. The problem comes from the phone manufacturers who are trying to "improve" the OS by adding things like Sense UI and Motoblur. Yeah, some of these improvements are better, but others aren't any better than what comes in vanilla, and even more are worse. The fact that the modding community can turn on OS around in a few weeks and push it back out to the device is testament to how easy it is to put these newer versions of software on the phone, and it just the manufacturers trying to add their own crap back on that is the issue.

    1. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh really, is that why Google stopped supporting HTC Dream in new versions of Android less than a year after the phone's release? As far as I know, HTC Dream ran a vanilla Android.
      HTC Dream was released in october 2008. Android 1.6 in september 2009. If they want to keep obsoleting their phones at this rate, they can shove them.
      And it's not about aftermarket firmware, naturally if the device is cool enough, there will be lonesome hackers that want to play with it for longer than 15 minutes. But that doesn't change how Google is pissing in the owners' general direction.

    2. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by mmurphy000 · · Score: 1

      The fact that the modding community can turn on OS around in a few weeks and push it back out to the device is testament to how easy it is to put these newer versions of software on the phone, and it just the manufacturers trying to add their own crap back on that is the issue.

      It is not that simple.

      As just one example, ROM modders are willing to put up with "brick rates" that would result in class action suits if a device manufacturer and carrier tried the same thing. A 99% success rate -- which a ROM modder would probably consider to be pretty good -- would still mean in excess of 10,000 bricked G1s, 10,000 bricked Magics, etc. ROM modders simply are willing to use techniques (e.g., re-partitioning flash) that device manufacturers deem too risky. Hence, device manufacturers and carriers elect to be more conservative, so they do not wind up with millions of dollars in extra support costs.

      Applying HTC Sense and MOTOBLUR and such to new Android releases does indeed involve work, and that definitely has an impact on upgrade availability. But it's not the whole story. Some of the reasons are good for consumers (e.g., minimizing bricked phones), and some of the reasons are bad for consumers (e.g., emphasizing new products at the expense of old).

    3. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the reason that the modders do things the way they do them is because that's the only way they know how. The manufacturers who actually know how to do it properly and don't have to work around the protections that are put in place to prevent modders from doing their thing.

    4. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by mmurphy000 · · Score: 1

      There is no "properly" in some cases, for an upgrade to be sufficiently reliable.

    5. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      The Dream was the reason that Google contracted the Nexus -- The Dream was underpowered even when it was released. Are you surprised that it can't handle an upgrade?

    6. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by SeaFox · · Score: 0

      I agree it's the phone manufacturer's fault. But this isn't about carriers wanting to "improve" the Android experience, it's because Google's goals and the handset maker's goals are at odds with each other. Google is trying to create a hardware-independent OS that can run on multiple handsets and offer an experience similar to the iPhone without Apple's "walled garden" restrictions on apps. Part of the iPhone experience is that the OS is upgradeable and bugs can be quashed and capabilities added down the line, increasing the value of the handset overall.

      But this goes against handset maker's wishes that the software and the hardware be considered a package deal. Handset makers don't want an upgradeable experience, they want the customer to come back and buy a newer phone to get those new features. This upcoming iPhone OS update will be the first that will explicitly not work on all models of the iPhone (IIRC the last one could be added to all iPhones, but not all features were enabled on older 1G iPhones due to hardware differences between the models).

      The reason there are five different versions of Android market is because handset makers are not upgrading the software that ships on phones as new versions of Android come out or making them available as official upgrades to already purchased handsets. The reason why is they gain nothing from it. Once the handset is sold they have their money from the purchase, and even offering a paid upgrade fee (like the iPod Touch's OS updates) would be very small compared with the purchase of a new handset to gain the features of newer Android features.

      Android is fragmenting and will eventually fail, because Google gave too loose of licensing terms to their partners. They should have specified stricter control over usage of the OS and updating. But if they had, many handset manufactures would have never signed on because they want to maintain more control over what consumers can do with their phones to protect their added-services revenue streams.

      Apple is not a wireless company itself and has dictated these stricter controls in their agreement AT&T because they had the upper hand in negotiations. That and the more direct control Apple has over iPhone (owning and operating the sole means of updating the OS) is why the iPhone succeeds where Android fails.

      ---
      Note: I do not own an iPhone, iPod Touch, or Apple stock, and do not do business with AT&T for phone/wireless/TV/or Data services in protest of the company's cooperation with the NSA Wiretapping program.

    7. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      It's not only manufacturers whose ROMs are customized heavily... Motorola takes quite a long time to push out updates for the Milestone, for instance, and that's pretty much a plain Vanilla Android version. Hopefully they'll be proving me wrong in the next few weeks, but I'm not expecting Android 2.2 on my device for quite a while...

    8. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the very reason that it was underpowered and on top of that ran a slow java interpreter, I'd expect Google to release an Android version with JIT for it.

    9. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      Motorola takes quite a long time to push out updates for the Milestone,
      Even stranger is the way the Milestone(essentially the GSM version of the Droid) is so locked down w/digitally signed bootloaders that you as a consumer can't even use a rom developed by a third party and get your update even sooner. The way US verizon customers could.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    10. Re:This isn't Google's fault... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Tell me about it... Milestone owners are mostly pretty pissed off about the signed bootloader :(

  10. iPhone fragmentation by kroyd · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I've got an 2G iPod touch, with iPhone OS 2.x. This means there is software that simply won't run because it is not an iPhone (such as Sleep Cycle), and software which won't run because it is not the 3.x version of the OS (games - at least the Street fighter demo and some others). With an iPod Touch you have to buy the OS upgrades, which I haven't bothered to do.

    By this summer you'll have to support the 1G, 2G and 3G versions of the iPod touch, the 1G, 2G and 3G iPhones, the 3G iPhone with more RAM and a faster processor, and the 4G iPhone with both more RAM and a higher resolution. Oh, and the iPad of course.

    The biggest new challenge with "iphone 4g" is the higher resolution - some say this will be 960x640 (i.e 2x the current resolution hor/ver), which is imho unlikely as this would be the first use of such a LCD resolution ever.

    To me this doesn't sound simpler than the Android fragmentation, at least with Android the market lets you know which apps you can install, and the vast majority actually works with 1.5. With the Appstore you might only get "oh, don't install this on an iPod touch, it won't work".

    Android is also more developer friendly, e.g. the new feature introduced just before the 2.2 release - at least my N1 got a "report this crash button" before I upgraded to 2.2. (I don't want to speculate on the developer friendlyness of Apple, but recent news haven't been very good.

    1. Re:iPhone fragmentation by NiceGeek · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      "you have to buy the OS upgrades, which I haven't bothered to do"

      $5 is that tough to part with?

    2. Re:iPhone fragmentation by fandingo · · Score: 1

      Exactly. iPhone upgrades have always been free, so developers only need to target the current major version. iTunes prompts for upgrades whenever one is released, so it would be nonsensical to run an old OS. For iTouches, if someone won't pay for a $5-$10 (I think they are $10) upgrade every six months or so, then as a developer, why should I care about them? If my app is free, then there is no expectation that I spend extra work supporting legacy systems, and if it costs money, then why do I care about the cheapskate who won't buy a very reasonably priced upgrade? People who won't buy upgrades won't pay for apps either.

      Apple's commitment to iPhone upgrades is the reason I stick with the platform. Yes, there are things that I'm not happy about, but honestly look at how much the platform has expanded since it was released. I bought a 1st gen iPhone and comparing the features today with when I bought it is really impressive.

    3. Re:iPhone fragmentation by Stickybombs · · Score: 1

      I'm in the same boat on this one. It isn't so much that $5 is a whole lot to part with, it is the principle of the thing. I don't feel that I should have to pay for a patch, or a service pack, or whatever other name you want to give it. With the earlier upgrades, much of that functionality should have shipped with the device, not been added later and then charged for. The vast majority of other hardware and software give you free updates once you have made the original purchase. Why should this be any different?

    4. Re:iPhone fragmentation by jo42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      With an iPod Touch you have to buy the OS upgrades, which I haven't bothered to do.

      Not if you know where to download the appropriate ipsw file (from Apple's own CDN servers no less!). Google is your friend here.

    5. Re:iPhone fragmentation by ducomputergeek · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I know we're dropping 1G iPhones and iPhone OS 2.x when the 4G comes out. By that time, the original iPhone users will likely have upgraded with new contracts. It makes the SDLC easier to adapt to as we've had a planned EOL schedule for over a year now with legacy iphone apps.

      We've been developing for Android for a year now and we've gone from two versions to now 5 different OS's in 12 months. We've bought about $2500 worth of iPhones and iPod Touches since 2008. We've spent over twice that since august of last year. And while it may be "developer" friendly, it's not nearly as QA testing friendly thanks to all the different devices from different manufactures with different hardware features and different UI specs.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    6. Re:iPhone fragmentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially after all the crap we get from kool-aid addicts about how Apple isn't making any money with their 30% vig, that the AppStore is a loss leader, and they make it all on the hardware.

    7. Re:iPhone fragmentation by salesgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You really like to repeat this story - this is at least the fifth time I've read it. You also illustrate zero knowledge of the platform, which makes me believe you are just here to lay down some astroturf.

      --
      -- $G
    8. Re:iPhone fragmentation by Random5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know how you've spent that much on android phones. You need
      - A G1 (your basic android device)
      - A Nexus One (high res screen and latest firmware)
      - A Droid/Milestone (to cover the Ti processor)
      - A Samsung Galaxy Should come to less than 2500 easily.

    9. Re:iPhone fragmentation by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do the final QA and Management sign off before a product is delivered to a customer. I keep an eye on the number of support tickets filed for various platforms & products so I know roughly what to budget. I can tell you the number of ticket reports filed for interpretability problems on Android is over 8 to 1 compared to the iPhone. To be fair the Blackberry has similar QA costs to Android.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    10. Re:iPhone fragmentation by rgo · · Score: 1

      I'm curious, the interoperability issues are from the different Android versions, or from different devices running the same version?

    11. Re:iPhone fragmentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm sorry, but your post is crap. The device did what it did when you bought it. Nothing was guaranteed about future features, nor was anything guaranteed about the costs of future updates. IIRC, Apple was up front initially that OS updates for the iPod Touch would NOT be free.

      I don't feel that I should have to pay for a patch, or a service pack, or whatever other name you want to give it.

      Are you still pissed that you didn't get XP for free despite the fact that you bought Win 95?

    12. Re:iPhone fragmentation by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      You're still only dealing with one manufacturer, though. Apple has an advantage in that they can try and keep the disruption of fragmentation down to a minimum.

    13. Re:iPhone fragmentation by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      The biggest new challenge with "iphone 4g" is the higher resolution - some say this will be 960x640 (i.e 2x the current resolution hor/ver), which is imho unlikely as this would be the first use of such a LCD resolution ever.

      Is there any technical reason why we are unlikely to see a 960x640 screen? Isn't it possible that Apple may have a deal with a manufacturer to be the first to use a new screen?

    14. Re:iPhone fragmentation by BlackCreek · · Score: 1

      Why don't you factor in the costs of buying macs for all your staff in order to develop for the iphone as well?

    15. Re:iPhone fragmentation by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      What I find strange, is that "if you know where to find it"-stuff are considered bad for Linux in general, but when it comes to apple, this is just an extra service, and "kudos to them".

      --
      This is blinging
    16. Re:iPhone fragmentation by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

      Mostly, it's hardware differences that is the problem. The customer wants "really cool feature x" then we have to go do testing and report back which phones will and which phones will not support that feature. But there are some software differences that produces some really ugly code and hacks if you want an app to work across all 5 OS versions. However the software differences are annoying for the programmers but can be dealt with. Hardware differences we can't do anything about.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    17. Re:iPhone fragmentation by soppsa · · Score: 1

      Um because this isn't Apple's official way of finding it, its actually piracy?

    18. Re:iPhone fragmentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you aren't entitled to free upgrades? 1->2->3 are big jumps... not just 'service packs' Frankly you and the other cheapskate are spreading nonsense, something like 90% of your iPhone-wannabe chums are running 3.x... If both of you are really that cheap, go pirate it, like you surely pirate everything else.

  11. Andy Rubin's Bullshit by mveloso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Andy's point was simple. Older Android devices that can't be upgraded to newer versions of the OS or run newer apps are no different than an iPhone from 2007 not being updated to OS 4."

    Rubin obfuscates the problem by trying to simplify things, which is working. The issues:

    * my android device can't be upgraded
    * my android app don't work on x version of android
    * my android app doesn't work on y version of hardware

    iPhone 4.0 is irrelevant, since it doesn't exist yet. And it is not like iPhone 3Gs not moving to iPhone 4. It's more like an app on an iPhone 3G with iPhone OS 2.0 can't run iPhone OS 3.0 because (a) the device itself can't be upgraded to iPhone OS 3.0, and/or (2) because iPhone OS 3.0 isn't backwards-compatible with iPhone OS 2.0.

    I have plenty of iPhone apps that were first-generation that still work. That sounds like an unlikely situation in the android world. I also have apps that work on all versions of OS and hardware. I have a few that require specific features (GPS) that don't exist on 1.0 hardware...so obviously don't work on newer devices. I had a few apps (WiFi scanners) that died under OS 3.0 that used to work.

    It sounds, however, that compatibility across android and handset versions is not only not guaranteed with android, but that the incompatibility is to be expected...according to their chief architect.

    Nice.

    1. Re:Andy Rubin's Bullshit by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      It seems some of Jobs hard headedness could be for a good reason.....maybe.

    2. Re:Andy Rubin's Bullshit by Qubit · · Score: 1

      * my android device can't be upgraded
      * my android app don't work on x version of android
      * my android app doesn't work on y version of hardware

      Interestingly, if Android were something like... say GPLv3, so that end users could update the OS, and if you had a compelling enough app, I think that you could then get people to upgrade their phone OS in order to run the new versions of your application.

      Certain issues, for example lack of an accelerometer or a GPS unit, are insurmountable. You'll just have to suck it up and deal with those hardware revs in your builds, or indicate that you're not officially supporting that hardware anymore.

      It sounds, however, that compatibility across android and handset versions is not only not guaranteed with android, but that the incompatibility is to be expected...according to their chief architect.

      Nice.

      Android isn't there to hold your hand as a developer or to hold the hand of the manufacturers. I mean, you get what you get.

      Unfortunately what end users get is an open platform that the hardware manufacturers and networks have tweaked slightly, then locked down. And guess what? The end users get screwed over again because the networks and hardware manufacturers benefit more from attracting new customers or offering newer, sexier phones.

      I'm really hoping that we won't have the same problem with MeeGo, but I'm not betting on it. The networks just love being able to lock people in, and I don't see that business model going away anytime soon.

      --

      coding is life /* the rest is */
    3. Re:Andy Rubin's Bullshit by zaffir · · Score: 1

      I have plenty of iPhone apps that were first-generation that still work. That sounds like an unlikely situation in the android world. I also have apps that work on all versions of OS and hardware. I have a few that require specific features (GPS) that don't exist on 1.0 hardware...so obviously don't work on newer devices. I had a few apps (WiFi scanners) that died under OS 3.0 that used to work.

      I have several apps that I ran on my Android 1.1 G1 that run perfectly on my Nexus One running 2.1. In fact, of the apps I used to use on my G1 that I have tried on my N1, none refuse to work. Now, go beyond the "reference" phones from Google and, yes, you'll probably see some problems. The more handset manufacturers fuck with the OS, the more likely they are to break compatibility. But they're shooting themselves in the foot, and the Android Marketplace will (hopefully) be enough of a reason for them to not screw things up.

      As an Android developer, I feel this fragmentation crap is overblown. So what if only x% of the Android phones out there can run My Amazing3DGPSSocialNetworkingApp? Anyone evaluating the potential market for their app is going to know to check what portion of the market can actually use their device, and if they don't know to do that then they have bigger problems. If that % isn't big enough, you rework the app so that it does work on new handsets, or don't create it. The more advanced the requirements of your app, the less likely your target audience is going to be using a phone not capable of running it anyways. Advanced features mean advanced users. Advanced users use phones that support advanced features.

      As an aside that has not much to do with the actual discussion, I have apps, like Wifi Tethering, that not only work perfectly on multiple phones, but CANNOT be killed because of how open Android is.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    4. Re:Andy Rubin's Bullshit by bm_luethke · · Score: 1

      "* my android device can't be upgraded"

      Depends on the phone - even some "vendor locked" ones can be rooted and vanilla or custom VM's installed. It's not that hard and most people should know someone who is capable of doing it if it really is needed. But even then that is really only applicable for a small group of people. However, so far very little in terms of the API and application development uses anything newer than 1.5 - especially for commercial applications (peoples play programs will differ - there are fart apps that require 2.0+).

      "* my android app don't work on x version of android"

      Same is true of the iPhone - last I checked Apple hasn't figured out how to back port API's to previous versions of the OS. Assuming if what they say of their newer OS you are going to be in an even *worse* place than what you are making the Android Market out to be.

      "* my android app doesn't work on y version of hardware"

      Simply not true - Android runs against a VM, even the vendor modified ones run against that VM. If that VM exists on a piece of hardware Android will run. This is a MUCH better situation than the iPhone in terms of porting code - there isn't any. Now, with the amount of phones out there you may find an application needs more processing power - but with older iPhones that happens too. You may find that phone X doesn't have a GPD so your nifty GPS app will not run - again no different from an iPhone. However Android handles that MUCH more efficiently with it's resource lists, it is handled at the App Store or installation level instead of relying on someone telling you not to do it or finding out later.

      I will assume what you really mean is point one - my hardware can't be upgraded but you are just saying it differently.

      "I have plenty of iPhone apps that were first-generation that still work. That sounds like an unlikely situation in the android world. I also have apps that work on all versions of OS and hardware. I have a few that require specific features (GPS) that don't exist on 1.0 hardware...so obviously don't work on newer devices. I had a few apps (WiFi scanners) that died under OS 3.0 that used to work."

      While it may sound unlikely you to, turns out you are just flatly incorrect. The 2.2 VM is fully backward compatible with all previous releases of the API. They just aren't forward compatible. Google has gone to great pains to keep 1.5 stuff running on higher releases, I suppose at some point 1.5 will have to reach an end of life - but then Apple is going to save you from that either (as you state in your post - you have already seen some stuff end of lifed). Not really sure why that is a tough concept - Java, VMware, Python, and many many other VM based systems have been around for many a year and do a pretty dang good job of it.

      "It sounds, however, that compatibility across android and handset versions is not only not guaranteed with android, but that the incompatibility is to be expected...according to their chief architect."

      Eh? One of the listed strengths of the Android is that it *is* compatible - basically VMware with a linux kernel running Java on a phone (that sounds - and frankly is - not really "efficient" in terms of resource allocation, but it is certainly great in the write once run anywhere model). Write to the VM and it runs anywhere that VM is at, it is basically hardware independent. Nothing really revolutionary there as far as that goes, though few if any other phones do it. If you have worked with VMware then you pretty much know what to expect in terms of dealing with the "hardware" environment.

      Now, being an Open Source project any company is perfectly free to modify to their hearts content and release it. In that sense, and from that explanation is where you are probably getting third hand information from (or rather misquotes with erroneous explanations given), is where the FUD comes from about so called "fragmentation" from an actual Android dev - but no, it is not expected any more than we expect to see 15 di

      --
      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    5. Re:Andy Rubin's Bullshit by Superken7 · · Score: 1

      that'd be true if later android versions were not backwards-compatible, but they are.
      If your app breaks, it means you were using undocumented features which you have been warned that would change.

      The ONLY issue here is when you have a device which won't be updated (say, the G1) and there is an app which specifically requires at least android >=2.
      That is uncommon and probably means that app would not properly work on your hardware.

  12. LOL! No One Wants You Retard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    OMG!!! You're 'scared'!!!

    What a fucking idiot. You won't be missed dipshit.

    100,000 phones a day now for Android - 36 million phones a year.

    Marketshare doubling every quarter.

    2nd place in marketshare already.

    50,000 apps already written for the platform.

    Every major cellphone maker standardizing on the platform.

    But oh noes!!! some fucking iPhone developer is spewing bullshit about his iPhone Fart App being developed on Android.

     

    1. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      iPhone apps sell to a combined market of iPhones, iPod touch, and iPad.

      There is little fragmentation on the iPhone market. 90% plus are running version 3.0 or higher.

      RIM sales are larger than iphone but our iphone app outsells the RIM version by about 5 to 1. RIM users are just not as likely to buy apps. Android US sales are substantial but not yet clear of the trend going forward. It will be interesting to see how things shake out in one year or so.

    2. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by HermMunster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree to some extent. Though I think it is a fools who runs in the sight of adversity. This doesn't mean that the environment is adverse, on the contrary, it is far from adverse. Engadget has no clue, they don't know what they are talking about. The Andriod is no more fragmented than Windows, the Mac OS, the iPhone, or any other. They are making much ado about nothing. Fire the editor for ruining the careers of the journalists by publishing this crap!

      One has to expect fragmentation and that the fragmentation will decline as models age out. Those consumers that don't have a phone with touch will just give up the ghost and get a better more modern phone over time. Apples OS4 for the iPhone won't run on the first two generations of the hardware. The coming updates beyond OS4 will fragment the iPhone more, and that's coming from "one company".

      Let's be real. The talk about fragmentation is a marketing ploy by the competition to keep developers and consumers from making the leap. An intelligent mind sees that fragmentation is everywhere from the desktop to the phone--in every device and in every OS.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    3. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is flamebait, but accurate flamebait. Nicely done.

    4. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      Yes and no.

      1- Android versions are coming faster than any other mobile OS, and OEMs are not great at making new version available for older phones. I'm not sure devices age out faster than new versions are coming out right now.

      2- Android covers a huge variety of hardware platforms. CPU, screen size, multitouch, keyboard... not much can be taken for granted. The OS can only hide some of those disparities. Of course Android is not the only one with that problem, but they're having the more acute version of it. I kinda like that they're not getting MS'ed into slowing innovation for the sake of the installed base, but this may become an issue, still.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    5. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      fragmentation spells out one thing for Android: FUD.

      it's called: we don't have anything else to complain about, so lets imply the shit is weak (when it's running quite strong and becoming way more polished than iphone).

      But yeah, linux is uh, dying too! I mean, fragmentation!

      Give me a break.

    6. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by ppanon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the features that you indicate as being variable on the Android platform are also variable on PCs. Yet, somehow, application development on the PC has not died and software developers have coped despite Apple having full hardware and software control on the competing Mac platform. Is the CPU on the original iPhone still the same as that on the iPhone 3Gs? Is the display resolution the same on the iPhone as on the iPad?

      The Android market is certainly different from that of the iPhone, and will require additional skills and practices. However if the response of established iPhone developers is to shun those added challenges, then all it does is open the door to those who are willing to tackle them.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    7. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by jedrek · · Score: 0, Troll

      Linux is getting it's ass handed on the desktop by OS X, which is what a desktop unix OS should be like for most people. It's not dying on the desktop, it's been pretty much dead for a while.

      I have an Android phone, to say that it's quite strong and more polished than an iPhone is a joke. There really is no comparison.

    8. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, my iPhone can't compare to my Nexus One. N1 was the most satisfying phone upgrade I've ever bought (even more than my dumb phone to my iPhone).

      Oh, wait, you meant to say that iPhone was better? Sorry, I just don't see it.

    9. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by sznupi · · Score: 1

      You think they have some editor? "Journalists", even? O_o

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    10. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by sznupi · · Score: 1

      While I sympathize with what your post meant to convey, the key data that you mention are not exactly accurate...

      First "marketshare doubling every quarter" naturally can't last ;)...plus "2nd place" only when looking at sales in one, rather small market and a bit ill-defined category of "smartphones".

      But most importantly, when it comes to "Every major cellphone maker standardizing on the platform" - no. Just no. Nokia won't do it. Samsung - not quite (yes, they might have few now and then; but their bada OS is what Samsung bets on). LG and SE also aren't exactly dedicated (while having some Android devices, they use also other smartphone OSes; and ship much more of those).
      Above are the 4 largest manufacturers, with 73% of mobile phones sold worldwide (N 37%, S 21%, LG 11%, SE 5%). The biggest one standardizing on Android, Motorola, has just 5%.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    11. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      But oh noes!!! some fucking iPhone developer is spewing bullshit about his iPhone Fart App being developed on Android.

      HEY! I've been waiting very patiently for that app!!! I bought an Android phone specifically because I was promised that app would be ported to the Android OS!!! Until then, my phone is useless!!!

      ;-)

    12. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by ADRA · · Score: 1

      OSX beat desktop linux out of the gate. This is not new. The fact is that Desktop Linux has never been consumer appealing, not that Apple's business model for limited hardware support (their own) is the best way to go.

      I'm still waiting for my OTA Nexus One upgrade to 2.2 which really looks compelling.

      --
      Bye!
    13. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I am in the same ownership situation as you, however to say that android is less polished than iphone at this point is the joke itself.

      Give it 2 years, and iphone won't even be in people's interest at the rate we're going.

      Linux on the desktop has not been dying, it's just people are so fucking shortsighted they don't even realize how big the market share is.

      Linux on the desktop? Larger market share than you think. Linux in enterprise? Have you ever even heard of an enterprise that doesn't use some form of linux? I'll give you a clue: most use windows and linux.

    14. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      While I sympathize with what your post meant to convey, the key data that you mention are not exactly accurate...

      First "marketshare doubling every quarter" naturally can't last ;)...plus "2nd place" only when looking at sales in one, rather small market and a bit ill-defined category of "smartphones".

      But most importantly, when it comes to "Every major cellphone maker standardizing on the platform" - no. Just no. Nokia won't do it. Samsung - not quite (yes, they might have few now and then; but their bada OS is what Samsung bets on). LG and SE also aren't exactly dedicated (while having some Android devices, they use also other smartphone OSes; and ship much more of those). Above are the 4 largest manufacturers, with 73% of mobile phones sold worldwide (N 37%, S 21%, LG 11%, SE 5%). The biggest one standardizing on Android, Motorola, has just 5%.

      You're skipping HTC (you know... the makers of the Droid, G1/Dream, MyTouch, Magic and N1). You're also skipping the fact that though Android based phones by model may be a fraction of the number of models out there, Android phones by volume sold (a more accurate number to use) is a lot higher than your figures would indicate.

      I for one dont see a reason why they should have 50 different Android phones out there when 2-5 different ones at a time cover everyone's needs (those needs being price, performance, functionality, and other specs (ie: keyboard/no keyboard, big screen/small screen, multitouch/no mt).

      With the vast amounts of Android phones selling, I am sure the manufacturers (who probably like making phones people want to buy... something to do with their bottom line and such) will gladly roll out more models if the demand is there. But quite frankly, I can already pick an Android phone with every capability I want - more choices from the manufacturers does not improve that ability in any way for me - and quite simply confuses the marketplace and creates products that may not recoup their initial investment due to too many choices of phones that do the same thing.

    15. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by david_thornley · · Score: 0

      It's more complicated than that.

      Desktop apps can get away with more variation. The author can assume a keyboard, a mouse, basic sound, and a reasonable amount of screen space. Most computers are fast enough to run most apps at a reasonable speed, and have enough memory and enough disk space.

      Phone and PDA apps are far tighter. The physical performance limits are much tighter, so a slower CPU can make an app unpleasant to use. Screen space is already very limited, and the layouts have to be designed to work on small screens, so minor variations can make a big difference. The input methods vary more.

      Developers write Windows apps instead of Mac apps partly because the Windows market is much larger, and so they'll make more money to make up for the increased necessity of testing. So far, with all its problems, the iPhone market is a better money-maker than anything else similar.

      The fragmentation is certainly not going to prevent Android app development, but it will make it more expensive and harder. Moreover, getting compatibility right is not one of the fun parts of software development, so we can expect to see a lot more splintering in the hobby app field. We'll have to see how things turn out, but I suspect iPhone development will continue to get more resources than Android development, and this translates to lots more apps and money.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    16. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by sznupi · · Score: 1

      See, the thing is that I'm not skipping HTC...you just don't realize how small number of mobile phones they sell. HTC says they shipped 11.71 million units throughout whole 2009 (lots of those with WinMob and BREW, too!). Now, put it in some perspective - Nokia sold, in 2009, close to half a billion mobile phones - that constitutes "just" 37% of the total market. HTC had in 2009...1%. One. They do show great improvement in 2010 so far, with 3.3 million shipped in Q1 and projected 4.5 million in Q2...so I would guess they might approach quite close to 20 million in 2010. That will be less than 2%. In the meantime, Symbian will ship close to 100 million probably. Not to mention at least 1.1 billion of other mobile phone types.
      Calling HTC a "major cellphone maker" is a misunderstanding.

      Percentages I gave are also strictly by volume - number of given devices sold, in relation to...all mobile phones sold.

      "Vast amounts of Android phones selling" are a...damn, not quite a confirmation bias, but... (I am actually trying to recollect one better term here ;p - I need a nap soon)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    17. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by vakuona · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's all use anecdotes as evidence. We really believe you now!

    18. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      See, the thing is that I'm not skipping HTC...you just don't realize how small number of mobile phones they sell. HTC says they shipped 11.71 million units throughout whole 2009 (lots of those with WinMob and BREW, too!). Now, put it in some perspective - Calling HTC a "major cellphone maker" is a misunderstanding.

      Percentages I gave are also strictly by volume - number of given devices sold, in relation to...all mobile phones sold.

      "Vast amounts of Android phones selling" are a...damn, not quite a confirmation bias, but... (I am actually trying to recollect one better term here ;p - I need a nap soon)

      LoL, lets put it in it's proper perspective. Nokia and others ship a lot of "dumb phones" and "barely smart phones" - HTC, not so much. Every model I have seen from them can be truly counted as a smart phone. When comparing their marketshare in the smartphone world, they are indeed a very major player.

      Comparing non-smart phones seems to have no relevance in this discussion. Considering the volume of Droids (HTC and Moto) and HTC MyTouch3G (the previous Android top seller per PCMag) and previously the G1 (which remainded an Android top seller for a while after it had competition), that says a lot about how many phones HTC sells in that arena. So, in the arena being explicitly discussed (Android), HTC has been and still is very relevant.

      So, I think we are just looking at this from different directions. I am looking at it as it applies to the Android market, and then to the smartphone market as a whole.

      As for "vast amounts" of Android phones being sold, the supposedly low estimate is 65,000 a day. I dunno if that qualifies as vast, but it is a lot... ;-)

    19. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      An anecdote is an incident (as in a one-time occurrence). This is an ongoing positive experience, which has also been shared by those of my friends who have made the same sort of switch.

      It's more of a user review and comparison based on first hand experience of both sides of the comparison (thus more balanced than the average user experience). That is to say, this is as meaningful as it gets in terms of device reviews, and I'm not on the fence at all, coming down without hesitation on the side of Android.

    20. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by sznupi · · Score: 1

      "LoL"? That's all what you can say at the fact that Nokia alone shipped 80 million smartphones in 2009? That's "just" below 20% of their sales, sure...but that's still higher than the average when looking at all manufacturers. That's still half of all smartphones shipped. That's almost more than all other manufacturers combined

      Oh yeah, or you can just as well use your own "definition" of a "smartphone" (is there any? Why iPhone was a "smartphone" for a year while SE Ericsson "feature phones" aren't? And even now the latter have full multitasking... Heck, the "feature phones" with S40, majority of devices that Nokia sells, have comparable multitasking to an iPhone, ability to install apps, for few years are the single familiy of portable media players which sells moore units annually than all iPods ever produced, have Webkit browser, etc.)
      And what's wrong with "dumb phones"? What, you would prefer that only "premium" people have access to communication? Only in "premium" places? Those "dumb phones" greatly improve the world, giving already close to 5 billion people the means to communicate. Opera Mini is already the #1 mobile browser on the planet...even when its typical users tend to limit their usage (not everywhere mobile data access is cheap, and when the differences in income are added...)

      Sure, HTC might have large part of its sells in the form of smartphones (though not all, they do sell BREW, too; you know, "dumb phones", sold to "lesser" people...). But that's irrelvant when classifying them as "major mobile phone manufacturer" (even "very major smartphone manufacturer" is not accurate..."important one", sure, that's better). So what that they limit their market so much? Understand what using that fact essentially means: if somebody makes and sells, say, ten smartphones (ten units!) per year, that would make it a "major" smartphone manufacturer because 100% of their is sales are "smartphones"...
      HTC is an important player, sure. But they are nowhere near "major mobile phone maker". Heck, SE or Motorola are almost borderline nowadays...

      And as for "vast amounts" - yeah, but again take it into perspective: the total amount of smartphones sold daily, averaged throughout the year, appear to be close to 470 000 units. The amount of mobile phones sold daily - ~3.3 million. Don't project your perceptions from your "premium" place (where smartphones also are still a minority of sales anyway, and will remain so for some time) to the rest of the world.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    21. Re:LOL! No One Wants You Retard by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Thank you for a well considered and cogent post. I actually agree on most points you make regarding relative costs of testing for a more varied deployment range. On the other hand, the constant recertification required for new versions by Apple's store imposes its own uncertainties and costs on developers. Apple's propensity for exclusive contracts with cell phone companies will likely also restrict the market on the demand side.

      Apple's approach has its points, but I do think you're looking at a replay of the open PC vs. closed Mac battle of the 80s. That said, Steve Jobs has 30 years more experience in the trenches under his belt so I think it will be a much closer battle this go round.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  13. Android 2.2: Google's Catchupgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Recently, Google announced Android 2.2, the next version of their Linux-based mobile operating system targeted at phones and PDAs, at Google I/O 2010. Developers praised the update, calling it and its features a welcome addition to the platform.

    Android 2.2 will bring the phone operating system closer to parity with its competitors. With 2.2r4 out now and a projected final release date of Summer '10, Android 2.2 is coming fast.

    But stepping back from all of the commotion, what exactly is Google offering with this update? What are these new features and who will benefit from them? There are plenty of questions about Android 2.2and here are the answers.

    Five Alive

    Probably the most important update for Android for its end-users is HTML5. This changes very little about the platform itself, but it shows that Google is investing in the technology. It also means that users will have a seamless Web experience.

    These two things are important for the future success of Android as a viable mobile platform, though Google's implementation might prove problematic.

    On live devices, users will have to install Android 2.2 in its entirety to gain HTML5 support. An entire operating system upgrade for a browser? Get real and update the browser on its owndon't make your users go through the trouble of updating and installing a fundamental update just for some HTML5 support, Google. If this is how you run your phone operating system, I'd hate to see what you expect of Chrome OS users.

    And there's also the fact that HTML5 is not novel. Every other industry player has already been including HTML5 support; Apple has long been a proponent of this, including HTML5 support in the developmental Webkit as well Safari since 2007. You're welcome to the party, Google, but don't announce it like you're the one throwing it. You can make catchup, but it's still catchup.

    Flash Forward

    Oh, Flash. Google and Adobe are performing a very calculated industry sixty-nine because both Apple and Google want the mobile-cum-portable market and Adobe wants the video portion of both.

    Apple is pushing the open HTML5 standard; Adobe is pissed at Apple. Google, with the old the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend tactic, sees an opportunity and hooks up with Adobe. Sadly, revenge sex only seems clever at first.

    The reality is that HTML5, being open and supported by hundreds of companies and standard bodies, will win in the end. Google and Adobe will look like assholes having lapped at such a bloated, poorly-coded, closed video platform that everyone else will zoom past using their browsers sans crashy plugin.

    Who wins in the end? The entire industry, sharing in the HTML5 platform, and users, whose browsers don't crash or chew up excess cycles and memory. Sadly, though, not Android users, who are unwitting Adobe consumers.

    Hotspotting et al

    Android will also support hotspotting, or wifi sharing funneled into its 3G or 4G network, of up to eight other devices. I'm not sure if you've done any serious work on 3G yet, but it's slow.

    The prospect of using one 3G account to support other Internet-hungry devices is like expecting a pygmy to carry weightlifters: backbreaking at best and otherwise i

  14. Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am choosing between the new iPhone HD or android. Outdated software is the deciding factor for me. I certainly do like the hardware of the incredible. But if I can't load the latest OS myself, forget it. Sounds like a bigger pain in the ass then dealing with apple. (I currently own iPhone 3g and 3gs and would love an excuse to get android.)

  15. somewhat misleading by Tumbleweed · · Score: 3, Informative

    Of the '5' versions, only 3 have anything resembling significant usage in the wild (1.5, 1.6 and 2.1). Multiple phones have had 2.1 upgrades released for them since the statistics were gathered, thus throwing even those statistics out of whack. Once all the handsets that are capable of running 2.2 are upgraded, I think that will be a pretty stable platform for quite some time - most everything that people have been clamoring for in Android is either in or supported by, that version (Flash, App2SD, bluetooth voice calling, JIT, etc). Many of the handsets that are older and 1.5/1.6-based might not perform all that well with these new features (if at all) due to constrained physical resources (slower CPU, less RAM, etc).

    Coming out with new hardware now with anything less than 2.1 should be a crime, though. I'm glad they've said the EVO 4G will have a 2.2 upgrade in July. *whew*

    1. Re:somewhat misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say, that the big divide is between version 1.5 and version 1.6. Before 1.6 there was only one screen size (the size of HTC G1 and HTC Hero). An 1.5 application will not run on smaller screens like that of e.g HTC Tattoo. It will however run on larger screens like Sony Ericsson X10 if it is well written. The only phone that have sold in any significant volume that still uses 1.5 is HTC Hero, and HTC have promised an update to 2.1 in June and there are now indications that it will actually happen this time (Sprint have already updated as far as I know). When that have happened developers could develop for 1.6 and their apps would run on almost all Android devices. That would mean that they would miss out on the latest OpenGL, but no old phones have hardware support for that anyway.

      Most Android apps will not need Android 2.1 or 2.2, and those who do usually need new hardware anyway, so the problem if any is more about hardware evolving too quickly than the OS evolving too quickly.

  16. This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Concern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fascinating thing about "fragmentation" is that it's a problem we just made up. Apple's Mac line, let alone the Windows world, have more hardware and software diversity in one minute than Android has all year. Yet no one goes around suggesting that "fragmentation will hurt the PC market's long term chances of success."

    This feels like a FUD bullet point created by an Apple astroturfing firm, whether it actually is or not. The whole "fragmentation" line of thinking presumes a world we have never had, and which I doubt anyone would willingly choose: one where a single manufacturer rules, producing a few nearly perfect products in a graceful, gradual schedule.

    The funniest part is that this meme is useful for identifying people with no Android developer experience. After having used both the Apple SDK and the Android SDK pretty extensively, you can see why Android will win in the marketplace, and win so quickly. Never has there been such a beautifully organized, transparent, open, easy zero-to-development experience. In a world where most platforms don't even think about API versioning until it's too late, Android builds in an elegant management system from the beginning. "All 5" API revisions are accessible via a pullout menu. You default to the lowest, so that your app is compatible with all devices. Easy done.

    And if you need something that a newer OS revision offers, everything about it makes it easy to target the minimum revision required.

    The documentation is organized and straightforward. Running and debugging your app is a keystroke away, with a hardware-level emulator that's trivially configured to match whichever devices you prefer to test on - or all of them.

    It's ironic, really. Hardly anyone has ever done such a good job of managing fragmentation, yet all this refinement for a platform that has less diversity (especially at this early point in its life) than almost any open platform I've seen that's this widely used.

    In short, LOL.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
    1. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet no one goes around suggesting that "fragmentation will hurt the PC market's long term chances of success."

      Strawman: No one is arguing that because Android's market is fragmented, all cell phones (or cell phone OSes) are doomed to failure. I will mention that the last time I tried to use Linux on the desktop, given encouragement by the server admin friend at my old job, the Debian install had a problem handling my monitor made by the fairly well-known company Dell, and my experiment with Linux on the desktop ended when the admin said "Oh, you should try playing around with the hex values in this config file." That's the kind of fallout you get with fragmentation.

      That's about all I have to say, as I've never developed for Android. I do wish Google the best on it, as I'd like there to be more competition among the mobile platforms for app development. (Apple's success only makes them bigger assholes, but iPhone/iPad is still the best option I see.)

    2. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      This is so true. It would be "fragmentation" if those different versions were all incompatible with each other. But they aren't. Each version of the OS maintains complete backward compatibility with all previous versions. If you want to make your app run on all versions, just write it for 1.5, and it will work perfectly on all later versions as well. If you really need a feature introduced in a later version, target that one and you'll know exactly what fraction of the potential market you're excluding. Either way, you never need to write multiple versions of the app for different OS versions. That is not what I call fragmentation.

      If you want to know what fragmentation is, look at Linux. I have to distribute separate 32 bit and 64 bit versions of my software, then discover it mysteriously segfaults when run under Ubuntu due to some subtle incompatibility between that and Fedora, which is what I compiled under. Very frustrating. If Linux managed its diversity half as well as Android does, that would be revolutionary progress.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    3. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by velen · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      It has little to do with Apple. People are used to having their software up to date when they use smart phones. Android has plenty of defects in the earlier iterations that you need to develop work arounds for. The newer versions give much better functionality and performance, but if you are not able to develop your application for the newer platform, none of the benefits will pass on to the end user. While the iPhone apps keep getting better, Android developers will be catering to the least common denominator.

    4. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You start by saying it has little to do with apple, and then close by saying that apple will "keep getting better". That's good I guess, because apple has a LONG way to go before their platform catches up. I know, you are probably thinking I'm crazy, but you'll see as time goes on. OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH SHINY will wear off, and soon.

      Also, I'm not sure why you think smart phone users are "used to having their software up to date".... WTF? Since when? I've got a treo 600 on my desk that hasn't had any updates in several years, and the only updates it ever got were ones I hacked in. I've got a drawer full of RIMs you can have, none of them get updates. Iphone/Android and a few earlier exceptions force updates on users, almost no other platform has done this in the past. You were LUCKY if you got updates. They were not a forgone conclusion, as they seem to be now.

    5. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether your hardware is supported by software or not has nothing to do with fragmentation of Linux. In fact, there is only one display / window system in serious use on desktop Linux (X.org). The display manager handles your monitor. Nothing else in the stack really matters.

    6. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fascinating thing about "fragmentation" is that it's a problem we just made up.

      Exactly. Too much dumbing down is also to blame here. Any competent developer should be able to easily structure his/her application so that it detects at runtime what feature set is available and then adjusts itself accordingly. The APIs are all there and they are very well done. It's not like it's even a problem.

      And finally how is this different from Apple devices - some have cameras and some don't, some have bigger displays than the others, some will have front facing cameras and other won't etc. They deal with it via APIs and libraries - no big deal (With the iPad they failed - the iPhone Apps just look horrible on the iPad.). But for Android it becomes "FRAGMENTATION".

      You know what lots of people wrote software for lots of Windows PCs - not every PC has a camera or not every PC has the same processor instruction set (SSE/3DNow etc.) - Devs just dealt with it via APIs - old craft. Now you could argue that leads to "poor user experience" but that doesn't mean everyone should sell their PCs with same configuration and branding. If anything the impact of diverse configurations has been minimal on the software adoption given PCs have the most software written for them.

    7. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never developed for Android.

      Why didn't you just start with that, so that I knew to ignore the rest?

      I've done some development on Android (just small things, but it's apparently more than you). I haven't on iPhone. I can say that minus a few things I'm not a big fan of (like the app's icon always sitting there in several cases), but dealing with the "fragmentation" has not been a huge problem. Leads to having to do some workarounds or other options at times, yes. But that's almost my entire programming experience on any platform. Honestly, I consider expecting any less to be rather stupid.

      Yet you won't see me saying a damn thing about developing for the iPhone, because I don't actually know!

    8. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by mgblst · · Score: 1

      You described the iPhone development experience as well, and are yet to mention one way in which android development is more of a "beautifully organized, transparent, open, easy zero-to-development experience" than Apple.

      It might be so, and I have only just delved into Android a bit, but Xcode is such a great dev environment. I hate having to go to work and use Visual Studio to work on piece of shit .Net stuff.

    9. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's great until you realize some things can't be lowest common denominator.

      And Desktops are a bad analogy, let me give you an example:

      To make desktops analogous to the mobile phone market - you can run multiple apps (multitasking) but can only have ONE on screen at any given time. That means the app take up the whole screen, and do so gracefully. This is great for web browsers, but how many apps do you know that scale well when they're stretched to random dimensions they weren't designed for? Oh, I'm sure they're usable, but do they look good or professional? Probably not.

      Now take it to mobile phones.

      Now take things like input paradigms. Is the user going to expect a multitouch system to interact, maybe not? Well if every app assumes not, then why the hell sell multitouch to begin with! Oh, so we should support multitouch but degrade to single touch, well, okay, that requires different UI input systems different UI design quite possibly, etc. Do you start to see the confusion here?

      For devices like phones, monoculture within an environment can be -VERY GOOD- for developers, because it reduces the specs you have to target, and because the device and apps have to be integrated in a very deep way. On operating systems, monoculture tends to do bad things though, because you end up with no options or creativity present.

      I'm not saying that the monoculture should be Apple, I'm just saying if all the android phones had to meet X requires and all had X resolution screens, and all of them has X input systems, and the extras were in size, and things that don't effect applications, you'd have a much more workable development environment.

      Just my $0.02, as a mobile application developer...

    10. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't speaking strictly of the software fragmentation of various Linux distros, but rather the fragmented supported combinations of Linux+hardware; Concern mentioned both hardware and software fragmentation on PCs in trying to make the point that it similarly won't be such a big deal for cell phones, and I was giving an example of when it was a complete show-stopper on PCs. Obviously I'm not an expert on Linux on the desktop, but I believe my admin friend was pretty well informed on it, and that Linux runs on some Dell computers and monitors, and that it would be fairly reasonable to think Linux would work on a formerly high-end Dell computer & monitor that were by then perhaps two years old when it worked on similar models (he had it running on his Dell PC+monitor combo of similar vintage). In the end, though, it seems that the support for some Dell desktop combinations in Linux didn't extend to that particular Dell set-up (at least not without some tinkering, which I had neither the knowledge or desire to do) but we didn't know it 'til we tried it. Maybe there's a central list of all supported hardware for Linux and my friend was dumb for not thinking to look at it, but it's not the kind of obvious thing where if you had a Nexus One or an iPhone and wanted to install Android OS on it, you'd know the answer right off the bat.

    11. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      The fascinating thing about "fragmentation" is that it's a problem we just made up. Apple's Mac line, let alone the Windows world, have more hardware and software diversity in one minute than Android has all year. Yet no one goes around suggesting that "fragmentation will hurt the PC market's long term chances of success."

      Actually - that's long been a claim of the Mac faithful. The Wintel world was just too complex due to no control over hardware. Apple's world was a comfortably controlled world of predictable product lines. This is just re-application of the same mindset to a new market.

    12. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by DerekLyons · · Score: 0

      You default to the lowest, so that your app is compatible with all devices.

      Which works just fine - so long as you don't need something provided by a higher version. Or, in other words, there is fragmentation and it does cause problems, but you can avoid if those problems only if you're willing (or able) to tie yourself to the lowest common denominator.

    13. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by BOFslime · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree, in fact there was a blog article written by an android game developer that kinda mock'ed this notion of fragmentation.

      Quote from the blog: "I'm lucky enough to have occasional access to lots of different Android devices via my work. The whole point of the Android approach to apps is that you can write an app on one device (or even an emulator) and deploy it across everything. In my case, that's been pretty true."

    14. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Code that runs on Windows JVMs might not run on Macs.

      Bullshit, or extreeeeeeeme generalization. You might be able to do that if you really tried to, but do you have an example of something that accidentally only runs on a Windows JVM? That doesn't bundle native libraries (example of really trying)?

    15. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by InakaBoyJoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple = red herring.

      Even worse, there's a huge elephant in the room. The crux of TFA is that fragmentation is the price paid for "the pace of innovation." But the problem is not new releases -- it's the failure of Google's Android Market (app store) to keep up with the needs of the marketplace. This has caused a bunch of carriers, hardware makers, and iTunes-wannabes to create their own app stores -- each with their own requirements and generally making life hell for developers. The reason is that Google's own Android Market was slow to launch internationally (especially to support paid apps), has an infamously poor UX, and -- shocking for a company called Google -- poor search capability.

      New hardware and OS releases are generally welcomed by developers. But if you're an Android developer, what's insane is having to support multiple app stores for the SAME hardware and SAME OS -- just because Google didn't bother to support paid apps in Canada until two months ago, for example. And don't even get me started on the joys of trying to make an app for China.

      Hey Andy, before you pass off fragmentation as a necessary part of innovation, take a stroll down to the department responsible for creating Android Market and tell them to start innovating to rein in the chaos they've created.

    16. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by yyxx · · Score: 1

      It has little to do with Apple. People are used to having their software up to date when they use smart phones.

      Wrong. Few other manufacturers provide major upgrades.

      Android has plenty of defects in the earlier iterations that you need to develop work arounds for.

      Bullshit again. Android 1.5 and later are robust, high quality systems. Newer versions just give people a bit more functionality and performance.

    17. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      That's not correct. The versioning scheme is a little complex, but suffice it to say that you can target 1.5 and use features from 2.1 by dynamically loading classes and such. It's not quite as convenient as having a fixed dependency on the higher version as you obviously have to provide graceful fallbacks, but it can be done.

    18. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by selven · · Score: 1

      Well if every app assumes not, then why the hell sell multitouch to begin with!

      I'm just saying if all the android phones had to meet X requires...

      I think you just solved your own problem. The market will ensure that people don't go off and develop devices radically different from the norm.

    19. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by dzfoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, my application cannot depend on a feature from 2.1 if I target 1.5; if I want to make use of such feature, my application still must work without it. Is this correct?

      Correspondingly, then, if I target 2.1 because my application requires a specific feature, then I cannot expect customers with 1.5 to use it, right? How is this not fragmentation?

      Are you implying that every single feature, on every single version, on every single device is optional, so that I can just make my application use it if it's there, but not if it isn't?

      Then how do applications differentiate? How do they actually do anything right or better? How do they take advantage of new technology or paradigms? And, more importantly, how is this not a problem or flaw in the ecosystem?

      For better or worse, this is precisely the situation that Steve Jobs is forcibly attempting to avoid.

            -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    20. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I can give an opposite example. Java makes it easy to forget closing files, while windows makes deleting open files hard:

      doStuff(foo, new FileOutputStream("log.log"));
      ...
      new File("log.log").remove();

      This works on osx, but fails on windows.

    21. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you are either a troll with a Steve fetish or don't mind people seeing what an inexperienced developer you are.

      How can you possibly be getting worked up about a state od affairs that has existed since computers were invented?

    22. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      I wasn't "getting worked up" about anything. I was asking reasonable questions. If you do not see fragmentation as a problem inherent in a platform touting unification, then fine, that's your prerogative; but insulting those who do, is childish and unproductive--especially when the closest thing to an argument you provide is "that's how it's always been so it can't be bad."

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    23. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by sznupi · · Score: 1

      ...a single manufacturer rules, producing a few nearly perfect products in a graceful, gradual schedule.

      Nintendo handhelds? ;)

      After having used both the Apple SDK and the Android SDK pretty extensively, you can see why Android will win in the marketplace, and win so quickly. Never has there been such a beautifully organized, transparent, open, easy zero-to-development experience.

      And BTW, Symbian (well, also MeeGo) will probably give plenty of that once totally moved to Qt, which is kinda...cute. Can be used with them already.
      Especially considering that for all practical purposes, Symbian has won the sales already - while its half of smartphone market is still less than 20% of total Nokia sales (that is still a bit higher proportion than the average of the market), so with Symbian supplanting more and more of S40 range...

      That said, yeah, Android has surely a bright future. Also bada OS, with the goal of quickly finding its way on large proportion of Samsung phones (21% of total market)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    24. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      You have to make both 64 and 32bit versions for other platforms too, it's just that most mac/windows devs simply don't bother, 64bit linux is far more mature than 64bit windows or osx.

      You get strange incompatibilities between different windows or osx versions too.. for instance, a portable windows app tool i used a while ago (bundles an application into a standalone binary you can run from a usb stick) works on vista but not on 7...

      You could also compile an ARM version for linux or windows ce...

      With linux you always have the option of distributing source code and letting third parties (ie distro maintainers) ensure that your app is compiled for and works correctly on all the different platforms they support.

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    25. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Concern · · Score: 1

      It's the carriers. All of them want their cut of any business that gets done on their phones, and each of them wants to cut their own extortionate deal with Google if Google is to have their own store on the phones. That's true both in the US and abroad. Most already have a "store" of their own ("V-Cast," for instance), where petty dreams of ego and closed platforms play out in pathetic dead-on-the-vine user experiences that hardly anyone even knows are there, despite the fact that they're in millions of pockets.

      Apple broke this mold by taking control away from the carrier, and Google took it even further by giving that control largely to the developers.

      If you're wondering why Apple is still only on AT&T, and for years the only way you could get an iphone running overseas was to jailbreak it, now you know. A big part of it's down to the asshole cell providers.

      So if this is an Android vs. iPhone comparison, I hardly think iPhone comes out ahead. Google is playing faster and looser to get more marketshare, whereas Steve's ego is keeping them off any provider that doesn't do it his way. It's a big reason why Verizon went with Android. Steve now considers himself the God of Cell Phones, and assumed that all other providers would kneel at his feet to get the iphone. To his surprise, the 200B telecommunications CEO didn't like being talked to "that way" by the 40B hipster device manufacturer CEO, and said, "fuck you buddy, I'll crush you like a bug. I can buy and sell you six times over. etc. etc." And sure enough Apple wasn't the only game in town after all...

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    26. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your questions aren't really that reasonable.

      At best, you come off like an iphone developer who wants to invent imaginary problems for Android (and by ridiculous implication, all other open platforms) rather than learn something new.

    27. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Again with the insults? I guess we can't discuss this like adults. Good luck to you, then.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    28. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Concern · · Score: 1

      You are aware that there will be many, many different kinds of devices made, forever?

      To the extent that a common open OS and/or a set of APIs can make it as easy as possible to develop for a large number of devices, that's a... good... thing.... right?

      This FUD made sense to someone inside Apple because they honestly fantasize about a world where everyone just buys Apple.

      To the rest of the world, there will be innovative new devices every day. No, they will not all be the same. That's the point of innovation. You can either try to build a common platform to let developers take advantage of that, or... what, each has its own operating system??

      No one wants to start from scratch on a new platform just because a new feature has been introduced on a system that's otherwise just like many others. I am still amazed that we have so many people who can confuse this elementary bit of software architecture (reuse, modularity, expandability) as a "problem" called "fragmentation."

      Screen size variations? Different input devices? Are you kidding me? How did PC and Mac people ever survive? You make it sound as if mankind had not yet figured out how to abstract input devices or use a layout manager.

      Ironically most android devices are almost vanishingly similar in terms of capabilities, compared to most other hardware ecosystems.

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      Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
    29. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by msclrhd · · Score: 1

      You get this (and related) with any garbage collected language (including C#/.NET). They make memory handling easier (although greedier), but resource management harder (you cannot).

    30. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey man, I only work here. I can't help what you sound like, or that you don't look like you know what you're talking about.

    31. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Well, I can give an opposite example. Java makes it easy to forget closing files, while windows makes deleting open files hard:

      doStuff(foo, new FileOutputStream("log.log")); ...
      new File("log.log").remove();

      This works on osx, but fails on windows.

      Of course depending on your definition of "works"... In UNIXes (which I believe OSX is), the file isn't actually deleted, only the directory entry is removed. File will really disappear only after there are no directory entries pointing to it and it's not open in any process. Now usually this doesn't matter, but sometimes it's does, like in long-running server processes or with files that keep on being written to a lot after the directory entry was deleted.

      In Windows, the file itself and not just the particular directory entry gets actually removed, which obviously leads to problems if file is open somewhere... Which Windows chooses to solve by preventing file deletion if it's open.

    32. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      That's easy. The JVM does not abstract the differences in file I/O between Windows and Unix. It's quite easy to accidentally create a program that does not work properly on one or the other.

    33. Re:This is Apple's most successful FUD astroturf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I should have said "unlinking" instead of deleting.. I know whata it does and it's one of the reasons I hate windows: oh, file is in use, must reboot.

  17. Just give us our devices rooted by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

    Dear Hardware providers and cell carriers: Please give us our devices already rooted. The community can easily port new versions of Android to your phones so phones like the Motorola Backflip and Cliq can have decent versions of Android already.

    I mean, seriously? What do they have to lose for giving us pre-rooted phones?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I mean, seriously? What do they have to lose for giving us pre-rooted phones?

      Control.

    2. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by Microlith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What do they have to lose for giving us pre-rooted phones?

      Control. If they give up that, they might not be able to force you on to their services.

      Motorola's the worst, since they sign the bootloader, kernel, and file system. The devices won't boot if any part of that has changed, and the only device you -can- change is the DROID (though the Milestone variant is locked down, last I checked.)

    3. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Which helps them how?

      AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint all have a lot to gamble on with their phones. If they gave us our devices pre-rooted, it would come down to price and performance. No one is going to jump ship from Verizon, Sprint or T-Mobile to get AT&T's Android phones because they are so #$@#$ awful. If they all allowed rooting, the Backflip might not be the complete crapfest of bloatware and stupid design decisions (seriously, no non-market apps, no Google search, non-removable crapware) and AT&T might entice more people to go to its network.

      I know a few people who switched from AT&T and Verizon to T-mobile when they got open Android phones.

      AT&T shouldn't put all of its eggs in one basket by shunning Android and supporting the iPhone nearly exclusively. Also, why is it that the networks feel the need to advertise rather than actually -do- something productive with their network. I mean, seriously? AT&T could have spent the money used in battling Verizon upgrading towers to 3G, all the money spent "promoting" the Backflip by ensuring its success by implementing decent designs.

      Lack of control means more profit for the cell phone carriers if they can compete. With all the money they seem to be wasting on ads and such, they could have already created great networks and decent phones.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by karnal · · Score: 1

      I'm seriously considering jumping from ATT to Verizon due to the lack of ATT support for any halfway decent Android device.

      I currently have a winmo device with ATT and while I'm sort of happy with it, Windows Mobile just isn't meant for a mobile device. That sounds like an incredibly stupid statement, but without tweaks etc it is truly a horrible phone.

      --
      Karnal
    5. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      phone manufacturers don't care. service providers do.

      they have an interest in being able to control the software that runs on devices that connect to their network. the most obvious example is tethering. they don't want everyone to have it for free, they want to charge $30 / month extra. on a rooted phone they can't control that.

      so yes, they have a lot to lose.

    6. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Consumers might be using handsets for longer than some manufacturers and carriers would like.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    7. Re:Just give us our devices rooted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a number of reasons why makers and carriers don't like giving root out.

      1: DRM. Android's DRM hinges on phones not being rooted. No rooted phones, no piracy. There is a LOT of pressure on phone makers to make their devices as hard to root as possible, either by carriers or by people/organizations.

      2: Control. I'm sure some carriers don't like the fact that Android 2.2 will have tethering built in, and don't want people to root the device, reflash, and be able to use this functionality. Instead, they want to sell a dedicated USB device and have people pay for another phone line. I have worked with people working for certain carriers, and they feel that people who tether are just freeloading scumbags because they were too cheap to spend $100-150 for a USB dongle. We all remember one certain carrier who locked down phones so people were forced to buy songs from their music store (DRM-ed and only worked on that phone), as opposed to just copying them to the device.

      3: Locking down for locking down's sake. Sony is crowing about how locked down their PS3 is, with no real breaks in the years it has been out.

      4: Easy cash grabs. A carrier forcing people to only use their app store means they can charge not just customers, but app developers fees and make money from both ends. I recall one phone carrier did this with Windows Mobile so only apps signed with their key (which cost $1500+ to get) would work.

      5: Future disabling of features. Say a carrier buys some type of ringtone store. Push out an updated flash disabling user ability to use ringtones unless bought from that store. Just like the "other OS" feature on a PS3, the ability to sideload apps, or even get an adb shell at all can easily vanish.

      6: Surveillance. If a device is locked down, ad tracking (sending back GPS locations etc) can be done and there would be no proof that this was done. Ad companies would love a device that they can sling ads with, track where and how phones are used, and sell that information to any comers with cash, with consumers unable to a single thing about it, or even prove it is being done.

      7: Shorter phone functional life. If a phone is not upgradable, people throw it away and buy a new phone, making the carrier money with ETF fees. If a phone is upgradable, it means fewer handsets sold. Or if a phone is popular, flash an "accidentally" broken ROM so people get fed up with that model, curse and swear, and buy another new one.

      We have seven reasons why everyone but the customer benefits. Record studios get another revenue stream. Carriers get additional revenue streams (ad revenue, selling data on individuals, locked down app store fees). Handset makers get more turnover of phones because people find they can't be updated and can't run current apps. Everyone benefits but the end user.

  18. Re:Latest Apple Fanboy Press Talking Point by HermMunster · · Score: 1

    I would have to agree, though I wouldn't have stated it so aggressively.

    Yes, the competition is the one spearheading this talking point. I wrote in an earlier post that it might be justified to fire the editor for ruining the career of the journalist by allowing this sort of article to be published. Maybe the journalists that are serious about their careers should look harder before agreeing to write such crap.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  19. This is healthy by travisb828 · · Score: 1

    To me Android has the right mix of hegemony and diversity. Hardware manufactures and carriers are free to have their own custom versions of an OS without having to make it completely incompatible with all the other software out there. Come on people this is what open source is all about. Yes its a little harder on the developer but so what. If you don't like it, go buy a mac to run the iPhone SDK. Pay the registration fee for the App Store and submit to Apple.

  20. Not fragmentation, just maturing. by modestgeek · · Score: 1

    I personally don't see this as fragmentation, just maturing. These last couple of updates are just finally getting around to the features that users really wanted from the beginning. FULL exchange support, tethering, hotspot, multitouch, etc. These are all features that users wanted from experiences with other phones but Android didn't have full support for.

    The problem will be when you can't upgrade the OS because of hardware related reasons within 6 months. Someone who signs a 2 year contract expects that phone to last 1.5-2 years. You can't just go in and upgrade your phone and get the deal price because you haven't completed your contract. Some vendors let you trade in early. Or, if you purchase the phone outright for $500 with no contract, having to shell out another $500 6 months later to get features that should already be there would really suck. Fortunately, the hardware specs on the majority of these newer devices should last at least 2 years IMO.

    1. Re:Not fragmentation, just maturing. by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Do they really? I upgraded my phone only about a year and a half ago. That phone's no longer available at all through my carrier. You can't even get a refurbished one. And when I got it it'd been available for less than 6 months. So, less than 2 years from initial release to completely obsolete and unavailable.

      I think customers expect their phone to function for the full length of the contract, but I don't think anybody expects it to actually be current for more than a year anymore. And I think the carriers depend on that, I don't think it's a coincidence that my carrier makes me eligible for an upgrade at 18 months after purchase or last upgrade despite the contract being for 24 months.

    2. Re:Not fragmentation, just maturing. by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Do they really? I upgraded my phone only about a year and a half ago. That phone's no longer available at all through my carrier. You can't even get a refurbished one. And when I got it it'd been available for less than 6 months. So, less than 2 years from initial release to completely obsolete and unavailable.

      I think customers expect their phone to function for the full length of the contract, but I don't think anybody expects it to actually be current for more than a year anymore. And I think the carriers depend on that, I don't think it's a coincidence that my carrier makes me eligible for an upgrade at 18 months after purchase or last upgrade despite the contract being for 24 months.

      True that use to be an unreasonable expectation, but Apple has supported every iPhone for at least two years and the day a new OS is announced, everyone worldwide can upgrade their phone without waiting on the carrier. Just because the phone was discontinued doesn't mean support was stopped. Everyone buying an iPhone now will be able to upgrade to OS 4.0 and Apple definitely isn't going to be selling new phones after OS 4.0 is released with an outdated OS.

  21. App compatibility. by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    Having one single unified Android market which adds terrific value to your handset, is going to ensure any fragmentation doesn't get too bad. This is the basis of why I dismiss these fears out of hand. I'd only worry if the market itself fragmented.

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    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  22. Why this story was posted by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    Apple zealots are getting nervous about Android so this story seeks to reassure them that the rapid improvement of Android is a bad thing.

    1. Re:Why this story was posted by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Ok, moronic comment aside, this is a problem.

      And, I want to into Android development, but new and better phones keep coming out. The droid was the first one I thought about getting, then Google released the Nexus one. But the Nexus one has a weird screen ( 2x green pixels to each red + blue), so I worried about that. Now there is the Evo, a newer phone. Plus, I worry about getting stuck with the g1's memory issue, where it can not take the newer OS version. Plus, I have to worry about motorola or HTC released new versions of motoblur/sense so that I can upgrade to the latest version.

      Of course, this doesn't affect most people, but as a wannabe developer, it does stop me.

    2. Re:Why this story was posted by salesgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, we code in Java targeting a virtual machine (it's called Dalvic). You don't worry about the hardware underneath - Android's APIs and virtual machine takes care of all of that stuff for you. You don't even have to have an Android device to do development. The SDK comes with an emulator that lets you build and test your apps on Windows, Linux or MacOS.

      Now that we've cleared that up, head over to the Android site and download the SDK and learn to write an app instead of worrying about phone hardware. There's nothing stopping you. The SDK is free.

      --
      -- $G
    3. Re:Why this story was posted by bnenning · · Score: 2, Informative

      The default for an Android developer should be the N1. The "weird screen" isn't a factor in practice, there still aren't any other phones with significantly better specs, and it's virtually guaranteed to get timely updates for the next few years because there are no incompetent and/or malicious middlemen.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    4. Re:Why this story was posted by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      An emulator is fine for starting out, of course. You really need the hardware to get a proper idea of what an app is like to use so that you can uncover flaws and make refinements to the interface.

    5. Re:Why this story was posted by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      Having a phone is nice. You could also get any number of cheap Android devices that are not even phones.

      The emulator is a lot fine. Even on the phone, your app runs in a virtual machine. You can change resolution on the emulator as well.

      --
      -- $G
    6. Re:Why this story was posted by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      The emulator is a lot fine. Even on the phone, your app runs in a virtual machine. You can change resolution on the emulator as well.

      Can you also emulate how your application "feels" under the touchscreen on any real device? The Android UI probably makes best effort for it too be all right, but you can never be sure until you try. And it would suck if the users think your application is sluggish or "just doesn't feel right" because some performance-sensitive parameter has never been tuned outside of an emulated environment.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    7. Re:Why this story was posted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, this was the second BS Engadget article on fragmentation. The first one by Nilay's dumb ass. And look who submits it? Whisper_jeff the resident Apple shill.

      Google IO scared the pants off of Apple, now they are all running around spreading FUD because iphone 4 isn't gonna be anything special and they know it. There's only so much excitement in video conferencing.

  23. Re:Latest Apple Fanboy Press Talking Point by perryizgr8 · · Score: 0, Troll

    yay!!
    you are my hero!

    --
    Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  24. Did you actually *read* the article? by Namarrgon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Silly question I know, but reading your post just makes its title look all the more ironic.

    Hardware and legacy-OS "fragmentation" exists today in the iPhone ecosystem - nearly half of iPod Touches are running older systems, and there are already iPhone owners who will never be able to upgrade to OS 4 (even the beta). It's obviously greater in Android due to the larger choice of hardware and more rapid OS releases. Some may prefer a slower-moving target, but the monolithic, our-way-or-the-highway approach that's required to achieve this has too many well-documented disadvantages to be suitable for everyone.

    [Backwards compatibility] sounds like an unlikely situation in the android world

    That's just plain uninformed. No APIs have been revoked or broken; the only 1.0 apps that don't work today are the ones that did naughty, undocumented things - like any other platform. In fact, Android's VM model, excellent API version management and Marketplace manifest model make it easy to allow apps to run on any version of Android they can manage, or to target the app at whatever specific set of hardware features are required, making forward compatibility far less of an issue that for e.g. Linux or Windows (can't speak for iPhone OS personally). And Rubin points this out.

    --
    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  25. Terrible Summary by adbge · · Score: 1

    I believe this development cycle could turn casual consumers away and hurt Android's chances at long term mainstream success.

    Sounds like the submitter is suggesting we artificially slow the rate of innovation. Hey, maybe we should just not release new devices with new features at all. That way no one will feel left out!

  26. They say the same thing about Symbian/J2ME by Ilgaz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is going on for years on Symbian scene and J2ME (Java Micro), same thing being said over and over and unfortunately some developers seem to actually believe it.

    I will give one single title: Opera. Opera Mobile runs on ANY Symbian S60 and Opera Mini runs on ANY J2ME client. There is no "Opera Mobile for Nokia E71", the drop down menus on some download may confuse you. It is just, some developers, especially the ones directly selling (no trial) apps want to make sure the application will run instead of living hassle to give money back or bad feedback. Another thing is, root certs which devices have. Some have Verisign, some hove Thawte or both. They want to make sure (especially with J2ME) that application won't be treated as "unsigned", especially network aware apps.

    Of course, if you see something like "S60 V3 FP2", it may confuse you. It just says "Devices with compass built in", much like iPhone 3G vs 3GS and I don't see anyone talking about fragmentation on iPhone scene.

    So J2ME is really "write once,run anywhere" and Symbian is really device independent. Of course, the Developer makes the difference.

    1. Re:They say the same thing about Symbian/J2ME by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Maybe the list might help some people...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:They say the same thing about Symbian/J2ME by romiz · · Score: 1

      From what I have heard, serious J2ME developers - like Gameloft, that has produced a lot of games on that platform - have a production pipeline that is able to produce myriads of variants of a single application. This makes it possible to get a customized game for each different target product, that takes the resolution, input model, processing power and available APIs into account.

  27. Ignore "blogs" by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    IMHO idiots like these manage to trick developers causing millions of dollars in potential revenue especially with independent developers.

    You don't need to jump the ship, keep shipping for iPhone and add Android, Symbian and even Windows Mobile to your platforms. Ignore what those "blog writers" and fanatics (including some devs) say, see yourself...

    Let me give a 2 applications as example: Nimbuzz and Fring. OK, they get great venture capital these days but it is likely 10 guys coding. They ship to any mobile platform available to buy, Fring guys even released a J2ME client. Do you believe these guys have some kind of insane setup like 1000 different handsets to debug on? Of course not. They just do simple things like seperating the core and ui, listening to vendor/os developer recommendations, using the free tools (Nokia even has actual hardware simulators with webcams) and don't go to deep level hacks area which will create problem on anything.

    For example I am not a fan of Android but when I see something like "fragmentation" and "engadget", I directly ignore it. I'd listen to actual software developers instead and look at the products shipped.

    These guys are trolling via blogs and counting their ad-click money, their BS really costs some developers and users, that makes me mad.

    1. Re:Ignore "blogs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the last classes I took while getting my CS degree was exactly this. You used concepts like model-view-controller to keep things separate as much as you can, and UI stuff was kept well separated from the core of everything else, with a good chunk of the class being able to identify what was part of the UI and what wasn't.

      So, if an app maker is having issues with Android, there are likely three causes:

      1: Using features in a later version of Android and not falling back gracefully if not there. For example, if your app is flagged in the manifest as switchable to SD card memory, don't have it run a long time background task, or else expect it to get killed when the user switches SD cards. If a task must run in the background, don't allow the app to be installed on the SD card. If someone must use a feature only in a newer version of Android, then specify it so the app doesn't even show in the app store to people whose phones won't run it.

      2: Using device specific features. For example, not all phones have flashes, so a strobe light app won't work on all Android devices. An app should check for this and if it doesn't have it present should exit out, perhaps offer to be uninstalled so the user doesn't have to pay for it.

      3: Android devices are not that different, but it can't hurt testing on the basic models (med res, high res, slider, candybar). Grab a G1, a N1, a Droid and a Cliq (to make sure there are no oddball things with CDMA or GSM), and run some regression tests. The G1 is older, so it is a great performance test. A N1 is good all around as a modern phone. A Droid is good to test how robustly the app changes from portrait to landscape with a hardware keyboard. And a Cliq is good for testing because it has a middle of the road CPU and is on GSM. If the app works on all this hardware, ship it.

  28. What if App Store intern fragments him? by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    Who knows if Apple guys hunt him down and reject his next update nitpicking on some minor issue since he said "he wants to jump the ship" ?

    Having an actual risk like that is worse than fragmentation, I bet even 8 bit era ASM coders didn't have such a risk.

  29. 24 million "enemy" devices sold already by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    You know the real interesting thing which is fortunate for some companies is: People ignoring numbers like 24 million, in first 6 months of 2010. That is Symbian, supposed to be "fragmented" while single sisx file installs to almost anything.

    You know what could drive all of them to real panic? If Nokia gets the neat idea of shipping a fully supported (and of course, working) Qt SDK for Android.

    While on it, a device very similar to Android sold 19 million too... Blackberry... If you add them, it makes 43 million devices. That is the market a developer misses when he/she listens to these idiot blogs.

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11548_More_stats_in_Symbian_sales_wa.php

    1. Re:24 million "enemy" devices sold already by Zelos · · Score: 1

      Does that Symbian figure include all S60 devices? I don't think I'd refer to something like the Nokia 5800 as a true 'smartphone'.

  30. A world outside US by codecracker007 · · Score: 2, Informative

    App developer should realize that there is a world outside the US [and Europe], where:
    1. Phones are sold unlocked more as a rule than an exception.
    2. Enthusiasts change phones frequently
    3. There is a big market for cheaper and second hand/older gen. 'smart' phones.
    Android fits in well for these market. This is also the exact reason for the abysmal sale of iPhone 3G/3GS in India and China.

    --
    7-8-9-10-0
  31. Choice is bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are DOZENS of different cars available! Even with a single car maker there can be half a dozen or more choices! Oh no, the car market is fragmenting!

    How is it that choice can be so good for some things in the minds of most people but when you go to devices and computer stuff OH CRAP WE HAVE TO ONLY HAVE ONE SINGLE CHOICE OR IT'S BAD?

    1. Re:Choice is bad? by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      GM sold God knows how many cars under 8 or so different marquees around the world with god knows how many dead marquees(22 if Wikipedia's to be trusted; this is also international too) with lots of cross cannibalization.

      Toyota is selling three. Toyota, Scion and Lexus. Each in distinct markets that do not cannibalize each other.

      Sure, Toyota lost a butt load of money last year and the famous throttle problem, but they're also not worried about going bankrupt anytime soon either.

      Simplification of a product line is a damn good thing and flooding the market with product isn't the same thing as being successful or profitable.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  32. Apps are Android's weakest spot by gig · · Score: 1

    C API totally closed
      only 27% of Android handsets run v2.1
      no easy path to port iPhone apps, desktop apps, or console games
      whole missing categories of apps
      malware
      piracy

    When iPhone had this many handsets, it had 4 times the apps, and they were a much broader selection, including many 3D games and content creation apps, and was drawing developers in from other platforms like flies because it was another full computer platform with native C apps and Apple made it easy to monetize your app. With Android, you have phone-style baby Java apps, it's not at all the same thing.

  33. Android is The Great White Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's face it--all you Android fanbois aren't facing up to reality. Android is a a moving target that makes it difficult to develop anything more than the most rudimentary apps, the hardware market is hopelessly fragmented and it's application store is a joke. The only thing it's got going for it is that it's free, which is what accounts for it's current jump in sales figures. Give it another year, though, and Apple is going to wipe the floor with it.

    1. Re:Android is The Great White Hope by sznupi · · Score: 1

      The same Apple who has 2% of mobile phone sales?

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  34. Face it, theproblem is the phone companies by mauriceh · · Score: 1

    What would it take to update older phones?
    A cable.
    A file

    And a cell phone company who actually gave a rats buttocks, of course.

    Simply put, most phones running older versions of Android could be updated to current.
    And why aren't they?

    Because the cell phone companies are cheap, inconsiderate pricks.
    Once they get you to agree to the 3 year contract their job is done.

    --
    Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
  35. tempest in a teapot by yyxx · · Score: 1

    I was helping a friend set up an Android phone a few days ago. It came with a manufacturer home page theme. The market was full of the standard apps, they installed, and I didn't even notice that it was a 1.6 phone.

    For the vast majority of apps, the differences between versions don't seem to matter.

  36. your bullshit by yyxx · · Score: 1

    It sounds, however, that compatibility across android and handset versions is not only not guaranteed with android, but that the incompatibility is to be expected...according to their chief architect.

    Most Android apps work fine on all major Android versions. The ones that don't work fine usually use some capability that doesn't exist in the old version. They can usually fall back gracefully.

    This is no different from what Apple is doing with iPhone, iPad, and iPod hardware, and it is no different with forward incompatibilities between iPhone OS versions.

  37. How much does it really matter? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Most people who are heavy users of their phones get a new one every 1-2 years, and when these new phones come out they are likely to have whatever is the current version of android...
    Very few people ever upgrade their existing phones, they just replace them when their contract expires.

    That said, given the open source nature of android obsolete handsets could easily be opened up to third party development once the original vendor loses interest (if it doesn't happen already - some handsets aren't locked),

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  38. It's almost as bad as Windows and Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember Windows and Linux? Both ran on such a wide variety of hardware it was nearly impossible to ensure that the user had the right stuff. Most didn't have cameras, many didn't have joysticks. You had trackballs, mice, variations in screen resolution, aspect ratio, color depths. 3D capabilities varied 100-fold. It was so bad, they had to print "Minimum requirements" on the side of the box, and everyone had to know their processor speed, RAM, hard drive space, etc.

    Linux was especially bad. There were dozens of Linux distributions, with varying applications, libraries, browsers... even the shell was totally different between releases.

    Yet... those are the 2 best markets to release for, with the most software. Every time I see these stories I wonder what environment the developers write for before Android came around. Unless they were dedicated XBOX developers, there is no stable hardware - almost everything today is a a heterogenous environment. Even the illustrious Apple. Would they rather that each of these phones have a different operating system, like it was 5-10 years ago? That would fix their problem, and give them 1/10th the audience they have now.

  39. Perspective From an Experienced Android Dev by derek5432 · · Score: 1

    I've been developing on Android for well over a year now. At Google I/O the Android team dismissed the idea of fragmentation, saying they prefer the term "progress". Is fragmentation a problem? Yes. Is it such a big problem that it should prevent someone interested in the platform from developing on it? No.

    The Android engineers are only considering fragmentation in the context of having a range of older and newer firmware versions. There is the horizontal fragmentation of hardware (i.e., a number of different devices running the same OS version), but there is also the overlooked horizontal fragmentation of the firmware. Just about every manufacturer has modified Android in some way, usually by creating their own custom UI to "sit on top" of Android. But sometimes this ends up affecting deeper functionality than just the top layer of interaction. E.g., HTC has the Sense UI, Motorola has Motoblur, and Samsung has TouchWiz, which are all their own custom modifications of Android. So in reality there might not just be one version of 2.1. In addition to stock, there might also be Sense 2.1, Motoblur 2.1, and TouchWiz 2.1. And this isn't even considering custom ROMS. I've run into (albeit rare) cases of exceptions occurring on 2.1 Sense that don't occur on 2.1 stock.

    I have 6 phones for testing: G1, Eris, Tattoo, Droid, Nexus, and now the Evo (thanks to Google I/O). Four of those were gifted either from Google or the manufacturer, so if you put in the hard work to make reasonably successful apps, you will get support as an indie dev.

    Do you need that many phones? Probably not, the simpler your apps are (which should be the case if you're new to the platform). If you're developing games, especially ones using input other than the touchscreen (e.g. accelerometer), you will probably want to invest in at least 3 devices.

    So fragmentation is a very real problem, but it's not a very big one, and honestly I'd take the freedom and ease of development and deployment on Android over the iPhone any day. And FYI, as an indie I'm currently generating a good salary from Android development alone.

  40. nexus one goodness by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    the few people who went ahead with google's nexus one experiment, and those that didn't, are now seeing what it was really about. it wasn't about having the absolutely most shiny phone. it was about getting timely bug and feature updates. it's about a phone that gets better and better over time.

    apple knows this secret. it's why there are people with 2-year old iphone 3g's that are still very happy with their hardware. it's why apple users don't mind paying a premium price for apple hardware. it's why they come back and buy more apple hardware.

    nobody is going to force all android device manufacturers to operate like this. hopefully consumers with think beyond the initial shiny-ness of their phones on the day they open the box, and consider how their carrier and device manufacturer are going to support that device over it's lifetime.

    personally, i'm sticking with whatever android "reference" device google blesses until the carriers and other manufacturers start to pull it together.

  41. 5800 is the big deal these days (S60V5) by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    5800 does count and in fact, besides being touch screen (which I hate), it is a real powerful device especially with extras like accelerated J2ME. It has a huge developer support behind it.

    BTW, 26 million is just quarter, 3 months period. Sorry for confusing it with half year.

  42. Of course but they are designed for it by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    Symbian devices and J2ME devices have a huge set of queries built in, you just query screen size, available API, device chars and output based on it. Obviously, a company like Gameloft does have simulation/emulation setups but it doesn't change the fact that it is actually the same executable. They even implement kind of DRM on top of executable against piracy.

  43. Re:Latest Apple Fanboy Press Talking Point by bingoUV · · Score: 1

    Maybe the journalists that are serious about their careers should look harder before agreeing to write such crap.

    Quite like whores, there are 2 kinds of journalists - cheap and classy. While only the classy ones reach the pinnacle of their careers, but many classy whores/journalists get lost in their classiness and reach nowhere. Whereas being a cheap journalist/whore is a low-risk way of reaching medium success with some hardwork and a lot less conscience, and zero self-respect. So I wouldn't totally agree with the career advice you gave.

    So, writing controversy causing crap might be a reasonably good risk-adjusted move for a journalist.

    --
    Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.