Slashdot Mirror


Emergency Dispatcher Fired For Facebook Drug Joke

kaptink writes "Dana Kuchler, a 21-year veteran of the West Allis Dispatch Department, was fired from her job for making jokes on her Facebook page about taking drugs. She appealed to an arbitrator, claiming the Facebook post was a joke, pointing out she had written 'ha' in it, and noting that urine and hair samples tested negative for drugs. The arbitrator said she should be entitled to go back to work after a 30-day suspension, but the City of West Allis complained that was not appropriate. Is posting bad jokes on Facebook a justifiable reason to give someone the boot?"

32 of 631 comments (clear)

  1. no by dmitrygr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Probably not, but by the time it's sorted she'll be bankrupt

    --
    -------
    1. Enjoy your job
    2. Make lots of money
    3. Work within the law

    Choose any two.
    1. Re:no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Probably not, but by the time it's sorted she'll be bankrupt

      Of course it's justifiable -- we live in the age of corporate fear. There's no longer a need for anything to actually happen -- all that's required is for a corp to assert "fear of [whatever]" (litigation, disparagement of business, loss of competitive advantage) for them to justify any extension of control over their employees.

      Just look at the way the bastards try to intrude into your home by telling you you'll be fired if your housemate doesn't stop smoking within 90 days. Why??? -- "fear of increased insurance costs".

      Craven sons of bitches.

    2. Re:no by Keeper+Of+Keys · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You think the police's job is to protect people's freedoms? You must be Swedish

    3. Re:no by pryoplasm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Soldiers can't be charged with conduct unbecoming for bad behavior unless they are in uniform, so why should it be different?

      Actually, they can under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It applies to all US service members regardless of location, in and out of uniform.

      I don't see why something similar wouldn't apply to other nations militiaries or other government organizations...

      --
      Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who live by the gun...
    4. Re:no by Desert_Scarecrow · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Soldiers can't be charged with conduct unbecoming for bad behavior unless they are in uniform, so why should it be different?"

      Absolutely, 100% wrong. They can. The fact that the individual works for a public service and not a private corporation is actually worse for their case, not better for it.

    5. Re:no by deKernel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Congratulations, you just gave three examples of where things turned out groovy. On the flip-side, I will give you examples of where empires have laid waste to populations (both internal and example). Don't believe me, think Hitler, Stalin, Mao just to name a few. Try being a pacifist to a Muslim extremist, and I am pretty sure they will literally hand you your head: think Daniel Pear. Your examples only work because the British are reasonable people. You might not believe that, but they are. When you are on the other side to psychopaths on a mission to cleanse the world of , throwing you your hands is a guarantee of death for not just you, but your family, your clan and possibly your .

      Though I understand your goal and applaud your POSSIBLE conviction (I say that because unless you have a 10,000 man army storming down your roads, you can't say for sure what you will do), sometimes an active resistance is a better solution than passive.

  2. Sounds unreasonable by Tukz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they had other reasons, but needed an excuse to lay her off?

    --
    - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    1. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dana Kuchler, a 21-year veteran

      'nuff said. That's a lotta retirement money the get to keep.

    2. Re:Sounds unreasonable by phatcabbage · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, nerd rage about spelling only sometimes.

    3. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Threni · · Score: 5, Funny

      >Is your o, a, b and l keys broken?

      Any reason you typed 'is' and not 'are' there? I assume those keys work on your keyboard, as you use them elsewhere, so why make that basic mistake while nit-picking someone else's comment?

    4. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Capsaicin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being so stupid as to say dumb things on Facebook

      It wasn't a dumb thing, it was a joke. It was clearly marked as a joke. The physical The "dumb thing" is that the humourless irony-deprived grey flannel dwarf who reported her did not understand it was a joke.

      Stop being an apologist for the implementation of a regime of "thought crime." Please stop.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    5. Re:Sounds unreasonable by oji-sama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being so stupid as to say dumb things on Facebook without realising her words could come back to bite her might be good grounds for not employing her in the first place.

      I think you'll find that [the Universe/saying dumb things] pretty much covers [everything/everyone]

      --
      It is what it is.
    6. Re:Sounds unreasonable by TOGSolid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep, the city made out like a bandit and got a convenient excuse.

      This also happens to be exactly why I keep my Facebook free of anyone from work. People seem to think that they need to "friend" anyone they met even briefly and then wonder why it gets them into trouble. You can't be fired for things you said on your Facebook page if your page is set to private and nobody from work can read it. It's that damned simple.

    7. Re:Sounds unreasonable by RedWizzard · · Score: 5, Funny

      English isn't my native language, so I'm probably missing something here, but what construct is "21 year veteran with mandatory raises is pry a nice chunk of change"?

      English is my native language and I have no idea WTF he means by "pry".

    8. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Rysc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't agree that her remarks, joke or not, merit termination, but I do agree that her behavior was stupid.

      People need to learn this and learn it well: Whatever you post on the internet is forever and irrevocably attached to you and will be used against you in every way possible. This is not like other, earlier forms of communication because in other, earlier forms of communication remarks were not preserved and were mostly limited to a small set of known recipients.

      This is why your internet handle should not be your name. This is why routine anonymity is a good thing for everyone. Yes, her employer acted badly and yes, whoever reported her is a humorless jerk. You cannot build a society on the assumption that there are no jerks and everyone has truth and justice as their primary motive!

      Don't post anything on facebook, or any other site, unless you want it to be known by all future employers, the police, all future boy- and girl-friends, your mother, your current or future children, historians attempting to demonize you, etc., etc.. It is no exaggeration to say that what she did was stupid and that she, and everyone, ought to know better. A joke among friends is one thing, a joke to your boss's face is quite another; and (like it or not) when you post on facebook you are talking directly to your boss, and your mother, and the cops, and so forth and so on.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    9. Re:Sounds unreasonable by AikonMGB · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you'll find that [the Universe/saying dumb things] pretty much covers [everything/everyone]

      Shutup woman, get on my horse.

    10. Re:Sounds unreasonable by icebrain · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've never worked on the dispatch side of things, but there is a huge difference between a good dispatcher and a bad one. The good ones are true multitaskers; they not only know what goes on during a fire/EMS call, but can tell what's happening just by the sound of someone's voice, and can manage to keep track of five or six separate incidents at one time. Many of them are former fire/EMS/law enforcement who either retired or had to quit for medical reasons.

      Most dispatchers pull 12-hour shifts, often overnight. It's a stressful job where you're sitting at a desk all day trying to help coordinate a response to life-threatening situations solely by radio. I'd imagine it's a little like air traffic control, actually.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    11. Re:Sounds unreasonable by krou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny, you just reminded of the Soviet Union, Cuba, and a few other places where people had to watch (and still do watch) what they say because they were never entirely sure whether or not the person they were talking to would be an informer of some sort. It didn't matter if those remarks were not preserved, or limited to a small set of known recipients. You just never really knew, and self-censored what you said.

      By claiming her behaviour is stupid, and saying that you should watch what you say unless completely anonymous (what happens if anonymity on the internet is eroded?), you're really targeting the wrong person/party. Her behaviour is not stupid. Her behaviour is perfectly natural in a society that (supposedly) promotes and protects freedom of speech. The real target of your ire and denunciations of stupidity should be the corporate and (in this case) government desire to undermine these freedoms, and promote self-censorship. The real stupid thing here is the idea that she should not be free to say what she wants. As the parent said: Stop being an apologist for the implementation of a regime of "thought crime."

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    12. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Aqualung812 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't be fired for things you said on your Facebook page if your page is set to private

      You think setting your profile to "private" will make sure that only your friends see your status? That's cute.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    13. Re:Sounds unreasonable by Securityemo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Working your life around the assumption that society is, for all intents and purpouses, lawful evil will destroy you in the long run.

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
  3. Re:Freedom of speech should be a law ;) by mikael_j · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I assume she was getting paid for those 16 hours of every weekday (and 48 hours of weekends every week) where she was required to abide by some company "behaviour code"?

    --
    Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
  4. Re:Freedom of speech should be a law ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Businesses should fire people who are too stupid to understand the impact of their actions on their company.

    Ah yes, the good, old "you're just a slave after all" argument.

  5. It all depends on what you mean ... by golodh · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Speaking with a former President: it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

    If you take the question as: "Is posting snarky content on Facebook about evading drugs testing sufficient grounds to disqualify you from your job, and hence set you up for justifiable dismissal?", the answer is obviously: "No.".

    If you take the question as: "Is posting snarky content on Facebook about evading drugs testing on part of an emergency dispatcher sufficient ground to disqualify said dispatcher from her job", the answer would shift to: "Probably not".

    However, if you were to take the question as: "Suppose you are a manager in charge of emergency services. Suppose you catch one of your employees, in a fairly critical position too, writing snarky stuff on Facebook about evading drugs testing. Is that a risk to you? Would it make YOU look bad if she did anything wrong in her job (however unrelated to actual substance abuse)?", then the answer is a definite: "Yes". For that reason said manager will face the choice of (a) actually looking into the matter, forming a personal judgement, and exposing himself and his career tot potential damage just to be fair to an employee or (b) simply firing her and getting a replacement. Which option do you think would make more sense from a CYA perspective and would also make said manager look good, competent, ruthless, and dedicated?

    There are no bonus points for coming up with answer (b). So that particular dispatcher is hereby dispatched. Such is the power of new electronic media, classical all-American CYA considerations, and age-old guilt-by-association thinking.

    1. Re:It all depends on what you mean ... by Dhalka226 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, on the plus side, there's no need to feel bad for her. She's likely to file--and win--a substantial lawsuit against the city for wrongful termination which will not only net her her job back (if she wants it) but also her pension and a decent chunk of change for her troubles.

      Such is the power of firing people for no reason and ignoring an arbiter who told you that you did so.

    2. Re:It all depends on what you mean ... by VickiM · · Score: 5, Funny

      Awesome, someone using the word "pry" correctly!

  6. Re:Freedom of speech should be a law ;) by bickerdyke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Basically, yes.

    My company pays me from 9 to 5 and that does NOT give them the right to invade my live the rest of the time. In return, I will not meddle with their buissness outside office times. What happens at the office, stays at the office, and what happens outside, happens outside. Thats a matter of basic decency.

    Of course there is a good measure of flexibility to this rule, but that works both ways. If my boss doesn't mind leaving me an hour early from time to time, the less I mind the occasional overtime.

    --
    bickerdyke
  7. Re:Freedom of speech should be a law ;) by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In this case, the City of West Allis is a "government", not a "business", and its emergency dispatchers are government employees, not private employees in some sort of dispatching industry. The First Amendment has been held to apply to state and local governments since 1925, and applies to some extent even when the government is acting as employer.

  8. Re:Sounds like the excuse.... by ConfusedVorlon · · Score: 5, Informative

    she had already been taken through 4 of the mandatory 5 steps to dismissal

    "Kuchler was already on thin ice with the city, having gone through four of the five disciplinary steps required by the collective bargaining agreement with the local clerical union: a verbal warning, written warning, one-day-suspension, and three-day-suspension."
    http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/05/police_dispatcher_fired_for_st.php

    so it seems that for whatever reason, her bosses didn't think much of her...

  9. So the arbiter ruled - end of problem by flyingfsck · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is a non issue. The arbiter ruled. The person has to go back to work after 30 days.

    Sanity prevailed.

    Nothing to see here, move along.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  10. Re:Sounds like the excuse.... by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which makes this whole story sensationalist. It's not like "make a drug joke, get fired", it's "be on the verge of being fired and pile on the straw that broke the camel's back". Nobody really wants to have people in that position for long, either you want the employee to really straighten themselves out or you want them out, no in betweens. There's no goodwill at that point.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  11. Re:Freedom of speech should be a law ;) by jonadab · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wait, do you mean *on the job* freedom of speech, or only when you go home?

    If the former, that would certainly change the nature of *my* job in fundamental ways.

    I work at a public library. At work (and in the presence of the public), I'm not supposed to express an opinion on basically *anything* (well, anything of substance; I can talk about the weather). Religion, politics, history, education, science, you name it. This goes to extremes in my line of work. When a patron asks me for books on how the fall of Rome resulted in the creation of angels (yes, this is a real example), I'm supposed to try to help them find books on that, without comment. In practice this means books on angels and books on the history of Rome. I know very well that the books on the history of Rome won't say anything about the creation of angels and the books on angels won't say anything about the fall of Rome, but I cannot *tell* the patron this. I have to keep a straight face while I help them find the books.

    So my job would be pretty radically different if on-the-job free speech were legally mandatory.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  12. The Swedish? Defending freedom? by mangu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You think the police's job is to protect people's freedoms? You must be Swedish

    I don't think so