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The Fashion Industry As a Model For IP Reform

Scrameustache writes "In this 15-minute TED talk, Johanna Blakley addresses a subject alien to most here — fashion — but in a way sure to grab our attention. The lesson is about how the fashion industry's lack of copyright protection can teach other industries about what copyright means to innovation. And yes, she mentions open source software. There is one killer slide at 12:20 comparing the gross sales of low-IP-protection industries with those of films and books and music. If you want to know more, or if you prefer text, the Ready To Share project website should give you all the data you crave on the subject."

11 of 398 comments (clear)

  1. Flawed Analogy? by PatrickThomson · · Score: 5, Funny

    I had a kneejerk thing to say here about software piracy, but then I realised that in my rush to be relevant, I hadn't RTFA and it was irrelevant.

    Yes, I know, this is slashdot, I should GTFO with an attitude like this!

    --
    I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    1. Re:Flawed Analogy? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But it's not an analogy. It's a reductio ad absurdum. Certain economic hypotheses put forward by advocates of stronger and more restrictive intellectual property laws have been repeated so often that people treat them as fundamental principles, as scientific laws. If they are scientific laws, they should apply to every industry, otherwise the proponents of these "laws" are guilty of special pleading.

      Fashion is an interesting case because it's exempted from copyright laws, and the legal reasoning for that exemption is specious. Think about it: fashion is too utilitarian to be copyrighted, but *software* is not? I can design an evening gown for somebody to wear to the Oscars, and that's *utilitarian*, but if I write a spanning tree algorithm for a a network hub, that's *creative*?

      Fashion is creative expression par excellence; it has almost no value other than the emotional response it evokes in its viewers. We don't judge fashion designers by how comfortable their clothes are (!!!), how well they protect wearers from the elements. We judge them by how provocative their designs are. Therefore any argument that I, a software writer, have to be "incented" to be creative must apply even *more* to a fashion designer. Any argument that creativity in the software industry will collapse without rigorous IP protection is inconsistent with the existence of a fashion industry.

      Now let's get to a real analogy. I think without IP protection we'd still have a software industry, but it'd look very, very different. Copyright creates an artificial scarcity. That brings more developers into the market. Copyright protection in the fashion industry would probably result in many, many more fashion houses springing up. The end of copyright in software would mean that many developers would be out of a job, even though the social utility of the industry would be increased and its economic value not necessarily decreased.

      Copyright in software makes a programming career possible for many more mediocre developers. On the other hand it makes the best developers less productive by forcing them to waste their creativity reinventing the wheel.

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  2. Sadly unlikely to happen by tao · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A not too wild guess is that this will probably remedied in the wrong way; by adding more IP protection to the fashion industry, rather than following their example.

    1. Re:Sadly unlikely to happen by OrwellianLurker · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've already submitted a patent for denim material that covers from several inches above the knees to the waist. A button will be used to hold the material together. I call this invention the "not-longs." I've checked and there is no prior art. I am waiting for my patent to be approved.

      --
      'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
    2. Re:Sadly unlikely to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's already got extremely strong IP protection, enforced strongly by the police. The Intellectual Property in their case though is called trademarks.

      If you are travelling from China into Paris with twenty Gucci-branded handbags, the police will slap you with a fine that's a lot bigger than the current "fines" for downloading software.

  3. Re:Umm, are you kidding? by NickFortune · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you talk to any of the young, creative designers that are moving things forward, and they will tell you about how all of their designs are being ripped off by mall stores.

    And yet I wonder how many of those young independent designers would be in business for themselves if the big chains already held patent thickets to prevent emerging competition. I wonder how many of them would find they could only make a living if they worked directly for one of the big chains in such a world.

    And I wonder how many of them would see the change as an improvement, if fashion patents were to be allowed.

    The Slashdot crowd may find this hard to believe, but you should be glad that the megacorps in our industry work to protect the IP of the industry's creative people

    You are absolutely right. I do find that hard to believe

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  4. Re:Umm, are you kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, clearly you didn't watch the video.

    They have interview clips with the young, creative fashion designers. As one such designer said of the mall store rip-offs: "Well, the mall customers are not our customers. It doesn't really matter."
    Or something to that effect.

  5. Re:Some big differences... by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is not true of software, movies, music, etc. A lot of IP retains its value for decades or longer.

    Bovine excrement.
    Most modern IP loses most of its value quite quickly. A hit song quickly stops being a hit song as new songs claw up the charts. A movie drops out of theaters after a few months. Software might have a bit more longevity, but even there it's probably around 2 to 5 years, not decades.

    Only a few classics retain value longer - but that's also true for the fashion industry. Some "vintage" haute couture is still very much sought-after.

  6. The TCP/IP stack isn't protected. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The TCP/IP stack isn't protected. Fail.

    The difference between fashion and software (well, one of the many) is that software can be improved on iteratively.

    And that improved version gets a NEW copyright, therefore the OLD one doesn't need it any more.

    Even if your software is old, if it's solid and mature, people will want to built new shinies on top of its old reliable, and therefore, it was value to them.

    Except with closed source (heck, even most Open Source but not FOSS), you CANNOT. Go update Windows 95 so it supports the new Atom subnotes.

  7. Re:VERY, VERY Flawed Analogy... by jimbolauski · · Score: 5, Funny

    fashion is the only "art" that can become OBSOLETE.

    How many musical artists have created and sold music over the last 100 years, how many of those artists are still remembered and/or listened to on a regular basis, and are still considered as popular and/or relevant as when they created their music? Discuss. For bonus points, compare and contrast the trends in the music industry during the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, and identify whether or not these trends bare any resemblance to fashion trends in that the music changes because, over time, music artists "want to stay ahead of the curve", and "don't want to be" playing "what everybody else is" playing.

    All you had to say was disco

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    Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
  8. A very apt analogy by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without copyright law, what incentive would Microsoft have to continue to spend billions annually on software development and R&D?

    This question was specifically addressed in the talk. To dig deeper, maybe Microsoft doesn't need to spend billions annually on software development and R&D. It's very likely that Microsoft, Oracle, Google, Apple, Adobe, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Cisco, etc. are all spending billions doing more or less the same research. The first one who gets it basically invalidates the billions that all the others have spent, at least for 20 years. If Microsoft could just openly rip off, say, Apple, then maybe some of those billions they're spending on reinventing Apple's wheel could be spent improving Apple's wheel instead. Better yet, maybe Joe Kernelhacker could take the wheels that Microsoft, Oracle, Google, etc. have created, tweak it a bit, and come up with something that the rest could in turn incorporate, or that he could even sell and help share the wealth.

    Also, look at, for example, Adobe's new feature in Photoshop whereby you can remove stuff from pictures just by painting a boundary around it, and it fills in the background. Now, I'll agree that you shouldn't be able to just copy the code directly from Photoshop and use it in your own application wholesale. But as the laws are set up now, you can't even implement your own version of this feature, and that's absolutely horrible for innovation. Hell, just look what's going on with the H.264 battle. Not only are some people saying you can't use that codec--by far, the most popular and well-supported codec on the Internet--to make your own videos without paying up to MPEG LA, but some have issued veiled threats that the whole process is patented down so heavily that making any software that can stream video at all will get you sued into oblivion. And they're probably right.

    The point of that tangent is that without software patents and copyright laws being extremely relaxed, maybe Microsoft can take some of that money they spend on lawyers (a very significant amount, by the way) and divert it to R&D because they no longer have to worry about being sued and paying millions to some schmuck who, it turns out, has a patent on wiping their butts. (Not to mention the millions in royalties they're having to pay to the other schmuck who has the patent on using toilet paper.)

    Also, the fact that Adobe has the first product on the market that can do the out-of-sight out-of-mind trick is great advertising. Without software patents, will everyone replicate this feature in their products? Eventually, of course, yes. It's a cool feature. But it's obviously something that's not easy to replicate. It's not like Microsoft can just go to their development gurus and say, "Make this happen." If they incorporated it into Paint, it would probably take them months or even years to figure out a way to replicate the effect, during which time Adobe will be selling copies of Photoshop like gangbusters. This was what she was referring to with the slide on making it hard to replicate.

    Have you ever used a piece of software that was blazing fast at something? Unless it was open source, did you really know exactly how it was fast? Was it because they came up with some clever way to use less resources? Did they come up with some clever algorithm that churns the numbers faster than everyone else? Did they just work really hard to remove all the bloat from their code, or write it to use resources on your machine at a lower level? There are literally millions of ways to make something work better. I just don't think that IBM will be ripping stuff off left and right from Oracle because it's not like they're going to instantly just know what to rip off.

    They take their Windows disc and make copies for all their friends, and some company in a Southeast Asian country starts mass-producing it...