Slashdot Mirror
NASA Astronomers To Observe Hayabusa's Fiery Homecoming
coondoggie writes "NASA said that a group of its astronomers will have a front row seat in Australia to watch the Japanese spacecraft Hayabusa's high-speed, fiery return to Earth. It is bringing with it a hunk of the asteroid Itokawa. The spacecraft is expected to land in an unpopulated area of Australia at approximately midnight locally, or 7 am PDT, on Sunday, June 13. Some 30 NASA astronomers will be flying onboard a specially equipped DC-8 with instruments that can monitor Hayabusa's reentry."
He will become the ninja dragon!
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
JAXA is not at all certain that it is bringing a "hunk" or much at all of Itokawa back with it. The firing mechanism which was meant to fire a bullet into the asteroid malfunctioned. They're just hoping it picked up enough residue. After the various mishaps this spacecraft encountered, it's been a good effort to get it home.
I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive.
Hayabusa, a specially equipped DC-8 space plane, where to begin making the jokes...
There aren't many parts of the world that are unpopulated. And people do live in the bush in Australia. Just not many. That said, it'll take more than something falling from space to kill anyone who can rough it out there, since everything in the bush is deadly. Even the plants have it in for you.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
i'd rather watch gary rothwell's hayabusa
Now we can finally have Ninja Gaiden 4 on the NES!!!
Being the avid Sci-fi fan that I am, I can't help but wonder if the the people who made the choice of landing of Hayabusa in an unpopulated outback of Australia gave any thought to the idea that the asteroid Itokawa may be a source of biological contaminants?
What I'm saying is, Hayabusa lands in the heart of unpopulated Australia, then a small town in the area gets ravaged by "bio-terror", then the military issues a media blackout.. You know, the standard plot of a zombie outbreak ensues..
I can't be the only one who thought of this scenario.. Does anyone else think the same as me? Discuss!
tl;dr - Choice of remote Australian outback for Hayabusa to stem contagion fears in case of zombie outbreak?? Discuss.
"See the earth below,
Soon to make a crater!
Blue sky, black death,
I’m off to meet my maker!"
[End Of Line]
Does anyone know if there is more information? I.e. Which side of Australia will it approach from and a more exact time? I'll be a couple of hours out of Sydney and would like to know if it will be observable. A quick search around NASA's website and Google didn't reveal anything helpful.
First the Americans, then the Japanese...
In case you haven't followed that drama you should do that now. Keeping that bird in control, managing it to do some science and finally getting it back was seriously heroic by JAXA. This was easily the most problem-ridden probe ever making it back (well, almost now). I hope the last leg of that epic journey will go well.
Its a 24 hour drive to Woomera, and from Saturday I will actually be allowed to drive again. But medically its just a really bad idea to spend two whole days on the road right now. It would be great to be close to the landing (or crash, or splat) but in reality I would just spend a few hours waiting at the road block with binoculars stuck to my eys, then turn around and go home.
You can tell, we don't see space craft very often in .au
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Hmmm... hate to answer my own question, but the details of the trajectory are here: http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/hayabusa/trj.shtml#new
Looks like Western Australia should get a glimpse as it flies past, although I don't think you'd see it from Perth - would have to be a fair bit north of there I'd imagine... maybe somewhere in between Carnarvon and Karratha?
I'm sure Yahoo has the answer to that. Just ask this guy.
Life is not for the lazy.
The Japanese will probably just get fined for littering.
NASA astronomers will be flying onboard a specially equipped DC-8
Sure, right.
We all know that when they say "astronomers" they really mean Xenu.
We all know that when they say "DC-8"s the really mean space ships that look exactly like DC-8s.
Don't be fooled people! It's all happening again!
There's an important point to the re-entry process, separate from the asteroid sample: the craft will be coming at interplanetary speed (about escape velocity from Earth) -- is much faster than typical re-entries from Earth-orbit. Seeing if the heat-shielding technology will work is important for future missions around the solar system.
It took the US 30 years and a fundraiser to pay for the littering of Skylab. Hope the Japanese are less of a bunch of deadbeats.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
They're using DC-8s, man! That and the fiery reentry is supposed to make us remember about our Thetan past.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Maybe they're using a new kind of heat shield and want to see how it performs. It's really expensive to get something massive up into space and accelerate it down into the atmosphere at a speed that would cause it to burn up; maybe they have to wait for occasions like this to get good data.
Go on, mod me down, but I'm a taxpayer and this isn't what government should be spending my money on.
How about, "Fuck you. Get some priorities, moran."
It's not like they're going to be sitting on beach towels here, they're going to be observing the inbound flight from an airborne lab on a DC-8 to record the condition of the returning probe as it penetrates the atmosphere. As far as I remember the reaction control system is dead so this thing will be coming in on a trajectory much like an asteroid. Except it's man made and carrying a cargo we're interested in. It was designed for controlled re-entry but since that's not possible this is a great opportunity to see what happens to spacecraft like this when bad things happen in the air.
What wouldn't be gained from observing and recording a piece of hardware like this as it falls through the atmosphere?
As a taxpayer, you should be more upset about your government bailing out auto-makers and becoming mired in costly foreign conflicts.
Anyone want to count the number of re-entries which the US has had in the 50+ years of spaceflight?
Anyone want to count the number of re-entries from the far side of the Sun which the US has had in the 50+ years of spaceflight?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
And, before someone provides some lame example of something which actually _was_ developed by NASA, it would have happened anyway - economics and the free market ensure that.
The free market hasn't really produced much over the last 200 years, every big break through can be attributed to the public sector and not private industry.
The spacecraft is expected to land in an unpopulated area of Australia
Australia is populated?
"A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
Considering they lost one of the shuttles and it's ENTIRE FUCKING CREW due to A HEAT SHIELD FAILURE, it seems that taking advantage of any available research opportunity into heat shielding is A GOOD IDEA!
Maybe you don't like NASA spending money on space.
After all, we don't know what gains we'll get from it.
Now that may be true, but then again, they've got a really good 'payback' rate, even if they aren't a profit center.
You like your cellphones, your satellite or cable tv, weather reports and warnings, tons of materials, medicine, maths, electronics, and so many other things you could write a book about it, and people have, you really should thank NASA. Their contributions to the total knowledge and even applications of that knowledge is absolutely huge and in almost all fields of endeavor. (Except porn, I really don't think NASA has done anything on human sexuality in space, but I'm not sure of that.)
So if you want to crawl back into your cave and ignore the contributions they made and ignore the even greater ones that can only come about if they are allowed to do that research you call "boondoggles", then just remember the reply Faraday gave when asked what use electricity was, he simply replied, "What use is a baby?".
Anyone want to count the number of re-entries from the far side of the Sun which the US has had in the 50+ years of spaceflight?
...because the Earth's atmosphere extends beyond Sol, so that makes a really significant difference on re-entry.
(is the state of science education in the US really as bad as that comment indicates?)
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I find your ideas intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Don't think that coming in from 300,000 times the altitude is going to make a teeny-weeny bit of difference in the re-entry velocity? It's one thing to re-enter from orbit, but it's quite a different ball game to re-enter from an interplanetary trajectory. This bird will be coming in hot!
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
> I really don't think NASA has done anything on human sexuality in space
Actually, they sent a married couple of astronauts into space on the same shuttle together. No word on whether they conducted any zero-G research ...
I don't recall the NASA married couple, but I do remember reading that the Soviet Union did quite a few mixed-sex missions to see what could happen.
I'm still waiting for the 0-G Kama Sutra to come out. I don't care if it's in Russian, I'd just be using it for the pictures anyways. :) "Hey sweetie, we haven't tried this position yet. Float upside down, and ....."
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
The spacecraft is expected to land in an unpopulated area of Australia
Sorry, but Australia has heard that story before. At least NASA finally paid the littering fine.
Float upside down, and ....
Uh, in 0-g, there is no "upside-down"
So, enjoy life in the caves.
It's all relative. I'd assume relative to what would normally be the "floor" of the cabin. If not, relative to the other observer (but hopefully not a relative of the observer). You always have to establish some point of reference for direction, which I'd assume would be done sometime well before you tried to get freaky in space. :)
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Are you really an idiot, or just playing on on slashdot?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
You'll need to come up with a haiku.
The enemy's gate is down !
Your anger would be much more effective if you took 4 seconds to spell properly, moron.
Uh, in 0-g, there is no "upside-down"
Of course there is.
Remember, "The enemy's gate is down." Therefore, by putting your head toward the enemy gate, you're "upside-down"
on premium unleaded is AMAZING. I can't wait to see how fast one is with space technology for an engine!
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
Has anyone noticed that if you look at DC-8 while tilting your head to the right it looks like an angry man? Especially if you add a greater-than for the eyebrows.
Loading...
You do realize that this is a JAXA (Japanese space agency) mission and not a NASA mission, right? NASA is being used for consultation only and, as such, the Japanese will be footing the bill for NASA's aid in this mission.
Don't let that stop your indignant rant about your taxes though...I wouldn't want to impede upon your right to act like a retard on the internet since you are a taxpaying citizen and all.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Don't think that coming in from 300,000 times the altitude is going to make a teeny-weeny bit of difference in the re-entry velocity?
No, it doesn't. You perform an appropriate delta v maneuver prior to reentry that puts you back into some elliptical Earth orbit, also prior to reentry (in fact, that's really the most amazing part of this mission, Hayabusa has done all of those prior maneuvers with one hacked together experimental plasma thrust after three other thrusters failed). After you do that recapture maneuver, you perform a second delta v burn that will slow you down to reentry velocity. It's not like you just point your spacecraft at the planet and burn as hard as you can to hit it. You actually design your reentry precisely so that you don't come into the atmosphere at a stupid-high velocity. Or did you think that the folks that work at space agencies (astrophysicists and rocket scientists) really don't know better than you do?
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Ah, so an answer (albeit a very rude one!) to the very first phrase of my comment - "Please, someone tell me that no tax dollars are being spent..."
Do you have any proof for your claim that this is being paid for by the Japanese? The article seems to indicate otherwise - "The Hayabusa airborne observation campaign is supported by the In-Space Propulsion Technology Project in the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters, Washington." "Supported" sure implies funding, and there's no mention of JAXA funding this.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
we should start a war with space. That'd show 'em!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
"You know that's a true story? Lady lost her kid."
You always have to establish some point of reference for direction, which I'd assume would be done sometime well before you tried to get freaky in space. :)
No way. Most of the fun of getting freaky in space would be doin' it without a reference frame. It's way more wild that way!
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Go on, mod me down, but I'm a taxpayer and this isn't what government should be spending my money on.
Or maybe mod you down because you replied to a Ninja Gaiden reference with a rant about taxes. Lame.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
What wouldn't be gained from observing and recording a piece of hardware like this as it falls through the atmosphere?
Free pizza?
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Anyone want to count the number of re-entries from the far side of the Sun which the US has had in the 50+ years of spaceflight?
Is that the dark side of the sun?
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Who said we were paying for it? These are DC-8's! They're being paid for by the evil lord Xenu! These scientists are a threat to his scheme for universal domination! Now all we have to figure out is, are there any major volcanoes near the impact site...
I did log in to post this, but then realized I really am an anonymous coward when it comes to Scientology.
You know, I've never bothered to research these at all. I kind of took it at face value that they were done by NASA for their projects. While some were popularized by the use by NASA, they still existed much earlier. And even Tang isn't a NASA product.
Teflon - Roy Plunkett of Kinetic Chemicals - Invented 1938 - Trademarked 1945
Velcro - George de Mestral - Invented 1941 - Patented 1955
Integrated Circuit - Theorized by Geoffrey W.A. Dummer, British Ministry of Defence 1952 - Demonstrated Jack Kilby 1956
Tang - William A. Mitchell for General Foods Corporation Invented in 1957 - Marketed in 1959 - Used by NASA 1965
A lot of projects aren't done by the government agency who seems to have done it. There's an awful lot of work done by government subcontractors. That goes as far as the fact that NASA didn't build the space shuttle.
Solid Rocket Boosters - Thiokol/Alliant Techsystems
External Fuel Tank - Lockheed Martin (Martin Marietta)
Orbiter - Rockwell/Boeing
I guess that goes with the idea of, a smart man can do. A smarter man can delegate.
Some automotive pieces are delegated also, but they do a lot of work in-house.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Here is an interesting website of how NASA has helped our lives:
http://www.nasa.gov/city/
No, it doesn't. You perform an appropriate delta v maneuver prior to reentry that puts you back into some elliptical Earth orbit...
I would have thought that's the way they were going to do it, however I can find no confirmation of that anywhere. From the looks of it, they're just doing a series of long retro thrusts to make Hayabusa's orbit around the Sun synch up Earth's orbit.
Regardless of how they are doing it, Hayabasu is going to have the second fastest re-entry of any satellite, over 12.2 km/s (compared to the shuttle's 8.2 km/s). Note this is also faster than Earth's escape velocity of 11.2 km/s (which tells me that the bird is not in orbit). The heat shield will be dealing with heating loads many times higher than the shuttle's. All in all, it's worth sending the NASA team out.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
He's pointing out that it's a lot harder coordinating the recovery of the probe from Vulcan while they simultaneously recover the probe sent from Earth. Otherwise, people would realize something was fishy. MORAN
There is no dark side of the sun. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Considering they lost one of the shuttles and it's ENTIRE FUCKING CREW due to A HEAT SHIELD FAILURE, it seems that taking advantage of any available research opportunity into heat shielding is A GOOD IDEA!
In 1999-2000 NASA was funding research on a replacement coating for the heat shield to vastly improve impact resistance. The funding was pulled at the beginning of the Bush administration when the agency's management, as usual, changed hands. The research was pretty much done. The only thing left was picking a winning candidate and starting manufacturing.
Posting as AC for various reasons.
There is no dark side of the sun. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
Dark matter?
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
(albeit a very rude one!)
Meh, bad morning with little coffee. It probably wasn't an entirely appropriate response, but it's out there.
Regarding my claim that JAXA is probably footing the bill, no, I have no citations to back that up. I know this is a JAXA mission because I have followed Hayabusa for years now, eagerly, so I have done research. I made the claim regarding NASA being hired as consultants based on past experiences working with NASA through other agencies (namely the university I attended and one of my previous employers). Sometimes NASA feels charitable enough to donate their time and efforts to help other organizations. Often, NASA does not feel this way and, if you want their consultation on a matter, you will get charged for it. Even when you foot the bill for such consultation, it is pretty common for NASA to ask for whatever data/feedback you can provide them with as a means of reducing the hefty price of asking for NASA's help. I would wager that some kind of contract that describes NASA's relationship with JAXA on this project exists somewhere, but I doubt I will ever have access to it.
That said, my claims were made from personal experience in the work I have done with NASA only.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
I would have thought that's the way they were going to do it, however I can find no confirmation of that anywhere
Awhile ago (Februaryish I think) there was a discussion of what Hayabusa was going to have to do to get back to Earth on Spaceflightnow and some other websites. Back then, the maneuvers that were described indicated that there would be a recapture maneuver (sorry I am far too lazy to go dig through old press releases to find those stories). However, upon reexamining what information I can find on Hayabusa, it appears that is either no longer the case, or it never really was and the profile suggested months ago was, in fact, simply a hopeful theory.
Regardless of how they are doing it, Hayabasu is going to have the second fastest re-entry of any satellite, over 12.2 km/s (compared to the shuttle's 8.2 km/s). Note this is also faster than Earth's escape velocity of 11.2 km/s (which tells me that the bird is not in orbit). The heat shield will be dealing with heating loads many times higher than the shuttle's. All in all, it's worth sending the NASA team out.
And all of this is completely true. I agree that NASA should take a look at the data. That's a good thing. It was not my intention to state otherwise, I was simply trying to educate you on the dynamics of vehicle reentry, which it appears you are well aware of. My mistake. Cheers.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
This how fast that Hayabusa can travel
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Is "to" French for "will"?
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
No! Trespassers in these radiation-scared plains (and terminally lost US Postmen) had better beware the ghost of Steve Irwin, and random crazed mutant land crocodiles:
http://home.people.net.au/~vortexau/Pics/postal4.jpg
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"